Official NBA General Discussion 2024-25 V1.0

[Basketball_Jones]

Did OG really score 40 points wow

[PushDaRock]

We already saw this kind of basketball in the 2000s. It was regarded as the ugliest era of the NBA. We were eventually saved by Jerry Colangelo, Mike D'Antoni, Steve Nash and the SSOL Suns, which gave rise to the game we see today.

Now, maybe you can say teams these days understand that FG% isn't end all and be all of basketball and that posting up the big man each and every play isn't a winning recipe, which may save us from the hideousness of basketball from the era. But honestly, I'm not even willing to take the risk.

Not sure if you've ever seen this thread on the GB regarding the really low pace of the 2000s. It is full of some of the best posters here talking about the flaws of that era and only a page long. Highly recommend it: viewtopic.php?t=2363918

I don't think you would suddenly see teams revert to post-ups and mid range jumpers for the majority of their offense, but I think it's a reasonable argument that things have tilted too far in the other direction with only paint 2's, 3's and FT's.

Players back in the earlier days weren't shooting that many 3's at least partly because they weren't good at shooting them. Now, they're good at them and everybody let's it fly. Shooting 3's also became an essential skill, who's to say that couldn't happen for the mid range? Let's say the elite mid range shooters can get up close to 60% and the mediocre ones get closer to 50%, well that's a whole lot different to guard than the typical sub 40% mid range shooter.

Either way, offenses will eventually evolve and find the next inefficiency not being exploited currently to get an advantage over the competition and then there will be copy cats, then eventually everyone does it and rinse and repeat.

I don't see how the half court doesn't become a lot more post ups and ISOs. Players actually haven't gotten all that better at shooting the 3, it's only attempts that have increased. And players hit the mid-range at a higher % than the 3. The 3 is the better shot because it's worth more points resulting in higher expected points, not because it's an easier shot.


The only saving grace would be teams not shying away from transition as they did in the 2000s. But in the half court? It will be ugly basketball.

The percentages are skewed when probably 90% of the league shoots them now versus a much smaller percentage back in the 90's and early 2000's. There were almost no 5's that shot them and barely any 4's back then. I don't think it's even debatable to say players have gotten much better at shooting 3's. You also have to look at the degree of difficulty on movement 3's being shot now. Even if the percentages are comparable, you weren't seeing anyone shooting step back 3's or from the logo in that era as they were extremely low percentage shots.

[WaltFrazier]

Did OG really score 40 points wow

Watch on YouTube

[PhilBlackson]

Wait OG dropped a 40 piece before Scottie lol dafuq…never thought I’d see the day OG goes off like that.

[Basketball_Jones]

Quite a few awkward self created buckets too!

[AbC?]

Watch on YouTube

So much better than [redacted]

[sidsid]

The secret to being able to play centers who can't defend like Sengun (or KAT, or Sabonis, etc.) is to have them not play center. Still a tough construct to pull off in the playoffs, and ultimately likely unworkable for a contender in general.

https://bsky.app/profile/michaelvpina.bsky.social/post/3lbrsop55i22w

[sidsid]

That doesn't seem like a bad result at least in creating more variety in play styles. Analytically, the mid range is a terrible shot for probably over 95% of players, but aesthetically it's really nice to watch especially from the players good at it. Maybe the percentages would go up too though if there is a focus on improving it, right now players are just encouraged not to even shoot it which also likely means they aren't working on it too much either.

We already saw this kind of basketball in the 2000s. It was regarded as the ugliest era of the NBA. We were eventually saved by Jerry Colangelo, Mike D'Antoni, Steve Nash and the SSOL Suns, which gave rise to the game we see today.

Now, maybe you can say teams these days understand that FG% isn't end all and be all of basketball and that posting up the big man each and every play isn't a winning recipe, which may save us from the hideousness of basketball from the era. But honestly, I'm not even willing to take the risk.

Not sure if you've ever seen this thread on the GB regarding the really low pace of the 2000s. It is full of some of the best posters here talking about the flaws of that era and only a page long. Highly recommend it: viewtopic.php?t=2363918

I don't think you would suddenly see teams revert to post-ups and mid range jumpers for the majority of their offense, but I think it's a reasonable argument that things have tilted too far in the other direction with only paint 2's, 3's and FT's.

Players back in the earlier days weren't shooting that many 3's at least partly because they weren't good at shooting them. Now, they're good at them and everybody let's it fly. Shooting 3's also became an essential skill, who's to say that couldn't happen for the mid range? Let's say the elite mid range shooters can get up close to 60% and the mediocre ones get closer to 50%, well that's a whole lot different to guard than the typical sub 40% mid range shooter.

Either way, offenses will eventually evolve and find the next inefficiency not being exploited currently to get an advantage over the competition and then there will be copy cats, then eventually everyone does it and rinse and repeat.

The first adaptation you'd see I think is actions with snipers still ending up in the corners to hit wide open high efficiency corner 2s.

But even without that, think of the fun, differently skilled non-shooters who typically can't stick in the league without that corner 3: guys like Mogbo. That's the barrier to entry.

You want skilled athletes to do what they're good at. With that, I'd include a 4 point zone for the elite distance shooters. Instead of stretching the floor horizontally with barely functional corner guys, reward the guys who can actually shoot and stretch it vertically. That brings back a whole lot of different types of athletes to the game. The traditional power forward being one of them and the pure shooter (with nothing else).

A lot of variety to team building.

[DelAbbot]

Did OG really score 40 points wow

Watch on YouTube

OG changed his shooting form? It's further away from his face when released. What are the Knicks doing changing Mikal Bridges and OG's shooting form? At least OG's shooting%s are up, so far...

[DelAbbot]

Wait OG dropped a 40 piece before Scottie lol dafuq…never thought I’d see the day OG goes off like that.

Make OG play against Jokic's nuggets for 82 games and he will make 1st team All-NBA

[DelAbbot]

Watch on YouTube

So much better than [redacted]

So much better than Scottie Barnes

[DelAbbot]

The secret to being able to play centers who can't defend like Sengun (or KAT, or Sabonis, etc.) is to have them not play center. Still a tough construct to pull off in the playoffs, and ultimately likely unworkable for a contender in general.

https://bsky.app/profile/michaelvpina.bsky.social/post/3lbrsop55i22w

Unless one is a generationally offensive dominant, like Jokic, these type of centers don't work.

I think Sengun and Sabonis are too short (arms) to be effective in the playoffs.

[microjacklin]

Wanna know if we can lure Chris Paul here even for 1 year
such impact player to know how to win,
should be a good veteran to BBQ Dick+our 1st draft player this season

[mdenny]

The low key move for the Rockets is to add jacob poetl for traditional centers minutes. He's got proven pnr chemistry with their team captain, Fred Vanvleet aka player-coach, and he would add more vet savvy to the young team. It would be such a better move than cashing in all their chips for an aging star like KD at this time. Prolonging their window and their options while keeping the big move for a later date. Sengun is a point forward....not a center. Also...Fred should be allowed to play with a whistle around his neck lol.

Works out for the raptors too because they have so many assets to trade unlike the warriors or lakers or whoever.

I think adding poetl could get the Rockets past a first round. Give them a shot at getting past 2 rounds. Sets them up for the big chips-down move next season.

They could pick up fred's option and keep that important trade salary for the big move next season.

[Tripod]

The low key move for the Rockets is to add jacob poetl for traditional centers minutes. He's got proven pnr chemistry with their team captain, Fred Vanvleet aka player-coach, and he would add more vet savvy to the young team. It would be such a better move than cashing in all their chips for an aging star like KD at this time. Prolonging their window and their options while keeping the big move for a later date. Sengun is a point forward....not a center. Also...Fred should be allowed to play with a whistle around his neck lol.

Works out for the raptors too because they have so many assets to trade unlike the warriors or lakers or whoever.

I think adding poetl could get the Rockets past a first round. Give them a shot at getting past 2 rounds. Sets them up for the big chips-down move next season.

They could pick up fred's option and keep that important trade salary for the big move next season.

And what does it do to the Raps losing a starting C with no one to replace him?

[mdenny]

The low key move for the Rockets is to add jacob poetl for traditional centers minutes. He's got proven pnr chemistry with their team captain, Fred Vanvleet aka player-coach, and he would add more vet savvy to the young team. It would be such a better move than cashing in all their chips for an aging star like KD at this time. Prolonging their window and their options while keeping the big move for a later date. Sengun is a point forward....not a center. Also...Fred should be allowed to play with a whistle around his neck lol.

Works out for the raptors too because they have so many assets to trade unlike the warriors or lakers or whoever.

I think adding poetl could get the Rockets past a first round. Give them a shot at getting past 2 rounds. Sets them up for the big chips-down move next season.

They could pick up fred's option and keep that important trade salary for the big move next season.

And what does it do to the Raps losing a starting C with no one to replace him?

I haven't been bullish on a poetl trade with any of the rumors because none of those teams can actually give us decent futures. The Rockets can. They are about to run into the same problem that OKC is gonna have. Too many prospects and picks. Not enough playing time or resources to adequately develop them.

So I don't want to trade poetl unless we get a return that knocks our socks off. The Rockets can knock our socks PLUS they will still have enough futures to add to fred's expiring next season to trade for a star player.

I could see them getting poetl this year and then trying to pry Lamelo from the Hornets next year or something like that. If they go for KD this deadline... it shrinks their window to 2 or 3 years (3 is stretching it imo). They have a chance for a much longer window.

Would you do Poetl and Brown for Jalen Green? I would. And that trade immediately makes the Udoka Rockets more udoka and more ready for playoff success. Plus they have a wealth of futures for a later big trade.

An alternative could be Poetl and our 2025 First for Fred vanvleet, who assumes point the title of "prospect project coordinator". But we only make the trade on the condition that fred is allowed to wear a whistle and carry a clipboard with his left hand during gameplay.

[WaltFrazier]

Did OG really score 40 points wow

Watch on YouTube

OG changed his shooting form? It's further away from his face when released. What are the Knicks doing changing Mikal Bridges and OG's shooting form? At least OG's shooting%s are up, so far...

Following the Knicks board this season, I've never seen any suggestion that the team, or a coach changed Bridges ' shot. Seems like he changed it himself. Not sure if OG made any changes but as you say his shot is working.

[sidsid]

The secret to being able to play centers who can't defend like Sengun (or KAT, or Sabonis, etc.) is to have them not play center. Still a tough construct to pull off in the playoffs, and ultimately likely unworkable for a contender in general.

https://bsky.app/profile/michaelvpina.bsky.social/post/3lbrsop55i22w

Unless one is a generationally offensive dominant, like Jokic, these type of centers don't work.

I think Sengun and Sabonis are too short (arms) to be effective in the playoffs.

A quote from Udoka in there is he believes it's sustainable because of a relative lack of blow-bys...

Sengun at the 4 when today's average playoff 4 is Durant, LeBron, Tatum, JWill, etc. is not the recipe for success I'd be banking on.

[JB7]

The low key move for the Rockets is to add jacob poetl for traditional centers minutes. He's got proven pnr chemistry with their team captain, Fred Vanvleet aka player-coach, and he would add more vet savvy to the young team. It would be such a better move than cashing in all their chips for an aging star like KD at this time. Prolonging their window and their options while keeping the big move for a later date. Sengun is a point forward....not a center. Also...Fred should be allowed to play with a whistle around his neck lol.

Works out for the raptors too because they have so many assets to trade unlike the warriors or lakers or whoever.

I think adding poetl could get the Rockets past a first round. Give them a shot at getting past 2 rounds. Sets them up for the big chips-down move next season.

They could pick up fred's option and keep that important trade salary for the big move next season.

While Ime loves Fred, I don't think the GM is prepared to hold onto his contract, with Green and Sengun new deals kicking in next year. They also need to save money for when Jabari and Tari are due new deals the following season.

Why bring in a player to complement a player they probably won't have long term?

[sidsid]

The low key move for the Rockets is to add jacob poetl for traditional centers minutes. He's got proven pnr chemistry with their team captain, Fred Vanvleet aka player-coach, and he would add more vet savvy to the young team. It would be such a better move than cashing in all their chips for an aging star like KD at this time. Prolonging their window and their options while keeping the big move for a later date. Sengun is a point forward....not a center. Also...Fred should be allowed to play with a whistle around his neck lol.

Works out for the raptors too because they have so many assets to trade unlike the warriors or lakers or whoever.

I think adding poetl could get the Rockets past a first round. Give them a shot at getting past 2 rounds. Sets them up for the big chips-down move next season.

They could pick up fred's option and keep that important trade salary for the big move next season.

The Rockets have two problems. The contracts they gave out to Green and Sengun were hedges (for very good reasons of long term viability). They can't trade Green or Sengun this year due to contract clauses, and Sengun's lower number allows him to be a more useful trade chip in the future.

In either case Fred's contract is meant to expire to allow them the financial room to absorb those contracts. That'll only change if they can dump his contract for a star trade worth hitting the apron.

Off-season will be interesting because both Sengun and Green will be on the market as big contracts to match for more star hunting or cycling for assets. Maybe they restructure Fred's contract there if salary relief is had and the apron squeezing every team.. Either way, the Rockets aren't positioning themselves for role players like Jak this season.

The interesting situation this year is the Pels. Wondering if the Rockets would pull the trigger on Fred+stuff for Zion if he becomes available.