Official RJ Barrett Thread

[canada_dry]

That Knicks guy is gonna show up here bragging about OG's 40 tonight lol

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[PushDaRock]

RJ continues to be feast or famine, he really just seems incapable of putting up a mid 50's TS% for a single game this year.

[bonjovi0308]

Give this team 1 more year same cast and healthy they could be better than the prime DD+ Lowry team. Scottie is Lowry, RJ might be better than Raps DD, and now we have far better casts with Dick, Jakob and Mogbo. BUT if you insist on a champion caliber team, I probably won't include both RJ and Quickley and hopefully mgt view them as trading chips and not core to sit on.

[Sidthekid87]

Give this team 1 more year same cast and healthy they could be better than the prime DD+ Lowry team. Scottie is Lowry, RJ might be better than Raps DD, and now we have far better casts with Dick, Jakob and Mogbo. BUT if you insist on a champion caliber team, I probably won't include both RJ and Quickley and hopefully mgt view them as trading chips and not core to sit on.

I think raptors DD was majorly overrated and Kyle was always the best player, but this is an insult to him. RJ STINKS. A complete net negative to winning. Only 24 so maybe he can improve, but even in the long term we'd be so much better off trading him for picks and a big man with potential.

[Got Nuffin]

Give this team 1 more year same cast and healthy they could be better than the prime DD+ Lowry team. Scottie is Lowry, RJ might be better than Raps DD, and now we have far better casts with Dick, Jakob and Mogbo. BUT if you insist on a champion caliber team, I probably won't include both RJ and Quickley and hopefully mgt view them as trading chips and not core to sit on.

I think raptors DD was majorly overrated and Kyle was always the best player, but this is an insult to him. RJ STINKS. A complete net negative to winning. Only 24 so maybe he can improve, but even in the long term we'd be so much better off trading him for picks and a big man with potential.

Barrett is averaging 23pts on 19fga in a role that is larger than he can handle because of injuries/ lack of personnel. He also places way more pressure on the rim than anyone on our roster - you would wish Barnes had that kind of aggression regularly.

That only ‘stinks’ if you drafted him with a top 3 pick or paid him like a franchise player. We did neither, and you can’t expect role players not to have off games.

We git 99 problems but i don’t think RJ is one of them.

[ATLTimekeeper]

RJ continues to be feast or famine, he really just seems incapable of putting up a mid 50's TS% for a single game this year.

He just did this a few games ago against Indy and Minnesota. Right now I think we know what he is as a scorer, good and bad. Can't shoot off the dribble and needs to get deep into the paint to score. Yips from the line. As a passer he seems to be making a leap. Should have had more assists last night but Bruno and Jak blew 3 spoon-fed lay-ups.

[tsherkin]

RJ continues to be feast or famine, he really just seems incapable of putting up a mid 50's TS% for a single game this year.

He just did this a few games ago against Indy and Minnesota. Right now I think we know what he is as a scorer, good and bad. Can't shoot off the dribble and needs to get deep into the paint to score. Yips from the line. As a passer he seems to be making a leap. Should have had more assists last night but Bruno and Jak blew 3 spoon-fed lay-ups.

Not sure why mid-50s TS% would be desirable anyway, since that would still be below average.

He needs to be consistently at/above 57% TS at least for us to really want to keep using him as a meaningful scorer. League average is 57.3% now, creeping back toward the 58% it's been at for two years now.

Last night, the wildness of his drives was pretty apparent. He took some weird, high degree-of-difficulty type shots and those aren't really his game. Scottie hit him on a nice cut for a bucket, and that was a much nicer overall look, obviously. Catch-and-shoot, cuts, transition... we need more of that in his shot diet. Drives against a shuffled defense after ball reversal. We need him to not be attacking the set defense, because he's not a subtle player, nor possessed of much finesse.

[PushDaRock]

RJ continues to be feast or famine, he really just seems incapable of putting up a mid 50's TS% for a single game this year.

He just did this a few games ago against Indy and Minnesota. Right now I think we know what he is as a scorer, good and bad. Can't shoot off the dribble and needs to get deep into the paint to score. Yips from the line. As a passer he seems to be making a leap. Should have had more assists last night but Bruno and Jak blew 3 spoon-fed lay-ups.

Yes and those were great games that he was "feasting" in. He needs some "solid" games in there too in between the great and poor games and there haven't been too many of those this year so far.

[PushDaRock]

RJ continues to be feast or famine, he really just seems incapable of putting up a mid 50's TS% for a single game this year.

He just did this a few games ago against Indy and Minnesota. Right now I think we know what he is as a scorer, good and bad. Can't shoot off the dribble and needs to get deep into the paint to score. Yips from the line. As a passer he seems to be making a leap. Should have had more assists last night but Bruno and Jak blew 3 spoon-fed lay-ups.

Not sure why mid-50s TS% would be desirable anyway, since that would still be below average.

He needs to be consistently at/above 57% TS at least for us to really want to keep using him as a meaningful scorer. League average is 57.3% now, creeping back toward the 58% it's been at for two years now.

Last night, the wildness of his drives was pretty apparent. He took some weird, high degree-of-difficulty type shots and those aren't really his game. Scottie hit him on a nice cut for a bucket, and that was a much nicer overall look, obviously. Catch-and-shoot, cuts, transition... we need more of that in his shot diet. Drives against a shuffled defense after ball reversal. We need him to not be attacking the set defense, because he's not a subtle player, nor possessed of much finesse.

I didn't say mid 50's TS% is desirable but it's a step in the right direction, improvement from his Knicks days and still showing overall progression. If he's going to be a high volume 52% TS guy, he has negative value. I want his "average" looking game where he isn't good or bad to be mid 50's because a 58% TS right now would be considered a good game for him. But, mostly he's just been having either great games or horrible games this year with little in between. I think he's had a 54% TS game one time this year. Everything else has been 50% TS or worse and 65% TS or better.

[tsherkin]

I didn't say mid 50's TS% is desirable but it's a step in the right direction, improvement from his Knicks days and still showing overall progression.

I don't really see that as a meaningful improvement. Barrett was a 53% TS guy for the Knicks twice. He's a 51.8% TS guy this year so far.

Him moving to 56% TS is devoid of meaning.

I think he's had a 54% TS game one time this year. Everything else has been 50% TS or worse and 65% TS or better.

Yes, he's had games under 48% TS, two of them at just over 50%, then 66.6%, 72.1, 74.2 and 80.4% TS games.

But him having more 54% TS games won't mean anything. He absolutely needs to bring up his efficiency floor, and we can trade off his efficiency ceiling if it means he's scoring more inside the 57-62% range.

But "mid-50s TS" won't be any value at all. League average is in the high 50s. We need him in the high 50s or better, with the odd night in the mid-50s as his bad nights.

[ATLTimekeeper]

RJ continues to be feast or famine, he really just seems incapable of putting up a mid 50's TS% for a single game this year.

He just did this a few games ago against Indy and Minnesota. Right now I think we know what he is as a scorer, good and bad. Can't shoot off the dribble and needs to get deep into the paint to score. Yips from the line. As a passer he seems to be making a leap. Should have had more assists last night but Bruno and Jak blew 3 spoon-fed lay-ups.

Not sure why mid-50s TS% would be desirable anyway, since that would still be below average.

He needs to be consistently at/above 57% TS at least for us to really want to keep using him as a meaningful scorer. League average is 57.3% now, creeping back toward the 58% it's been at for two years now.

Last night, the wildness of his drives was pretty apparent. He took some weird, high degree-of-difficulty type shots and those aren't really his game. Scottie hit him on a nice cut for a bucket, and that was a much nicer overall look, obviously. Catch-and-shoot, cuts, transition... we need more of that in his shot diet. Drives against a shuffled defense after ball reversal. We need him to not be attacking the set defense, because he's not a subtle player, nor possessed of much finesse.

He's also the only Raptor that can attack a set defense and get two feet in the paint. Subtle or no, this is a team that has two non-shooting, non-scoring PGs. We would surely win a few more games if RJ could score outside of 3 feet, but he's still useful getting there. The touchdown passes from Scottie to RJ do nothing for me. That's not good offense.

Last night, RJ drove 18 times. Went 5/8 on drives. Just 2FTA against a stingy whistle. 39 pass%. The process is usually pretty good with RJ, but he does get too shot happy in his scoring zones. In the past, I think RJ wasn't looking to pass as much, and that would reduce the value of his on ball creation.

[PushDaRock]

I didn't say mid 50's TS% is desirable but it's a step in the right direction, improvement from his Knicks days and still showing overall progression.

I don't really see that as a meaningful improvement. Barrett was a 53% TS guy for the Knicks twice. He's a 51.8% TS guy this year so far.

Him moving to 56% TS is devoid of meaning.

I think he's had a 54% TS game one time this year. Everything else has been 50% TS or worse and 65% TS or better.

Yes, he's had games under 48% TS, two of them at just over 50%, then 66.6%, 72.1, 74.2 and 80.4% TS games.

But him having more 54% TS games won't mean anything. He absolutely needs to bring up his efficiency floor, and we can trade off his efficiency ceiling if it means he's scoring more inside the 57-62% range.

But "mid-50s TS" won't be any value at all. League average is in the high 50s. We need him in the high 50s or better, with the odd night in the mid-50s as his bad nights.

I think you're taking what I say too literally.

All I am saying is having more 55% TS games where he is neither good or terrible would be a good thing rather than looking like a superstar one night and a scrub most nights.

[tsherkin]

He's also the only Raptor that can attack a set defense and get two feet in the paint. Subtle or no, this is a team that has two non-shooting, non-scoring PGs. We would surely win a few more games if RJ could score outside of 3 feet, but he's still useful getting there. The touchdown passes from Scottie to RJ do nothing for me. That's not good offense.

Sure, but I can't equivocate every time I post. I do understand that RJ has some potential for us, and he already has some value even on inefficient nights because he creates rim pressure. But he also isn't very good at scoring efficiently yet, and when he does that in volume, it hurts us. In the main because he has no reliable counters. So he gets to the rim and he can get up a shot... but the quality of that shot is often low and he will force it when he gets there because he can't effectively pull-up, can't post proficiently and doesn't have a reliable 3. I've gone back and forth about him in a bunch of threads, and I waffle between pessimism over his evident lack of development as a scorer and the absence of the environment which made him look so different last season, coupled to his youth and all that many times.

He's intriguing in the sense that he's one of the few guys we've ever had who creates legitimate rim pressure, but he's so bad right now that it's almost irrelevant. He has potential, and this is the season for exploring such things. And we need to try really hard to shape his shot diet more effectively, because that's what was working more last season. And we aren't doing it well right now. But that doesn't really address the underlying problem, which is his lack of finishing ability or counters.

Anyway, as I was saying, mid-50s isn't a sensible target. That still sucks. We need him much, much better than that, so him raising himself from efficiency in the 40s to efficiency in the mid-50s is mostly a moral victory, not any kind of substantive development.

[tsherkin]

I think you're taking what I say too literally.

All I am saying is having more 55% TS games where he is neither good or terrible would be a good thing rather than looking like a superstar one night and a scrub most nights.

No, I hear you, I just don't agree. I don't think it would be meaningful at all.

[PushDaRock]

I think you're taking what I say too literally.

All I am saying is having more 55% TS games where he is neither good or terrible would be a good thing rather than looking like a superstar one night and a scrub most nights.

No, I hear you, I just don't agree. I don't think it would be meaningful at all.

If all those sub 50% TS games became 55% TS instead, he would be around 60% TS this year.

[tsherkin]

If all those sub 50% TS games became 55% TS instead, he would be around 60% TS this year.

That assumes a change in just those games and not the incendiary top-end games, though. If he had an approach which was less volatile, the top end would also come down.

EDIT: And we're still under 20 games, so it's a volatile sample anyway.

[PushDaRock]

If all those sub 50% TS games became 55% TS instead, he would be around 60% TS this year.

That assumes a change in just those games and not the incendiary top-end games, though. If he had an approach which was less volatile, the top end would also come down.

EDIT: And we're still under 20 games, so it's a volatile sample anyway.

Yes it's a small sample size and just having 1 game out of 15 where he is between 51% TS and 66% is what's being pointed out.

[ATLTimekeeper]

He's also the only Raptor that can attack a set defense and get two feet in the paint. Subtle or no, this is a team that has two non-shooting, non-scoring PGs. We would surely win a few more games if RJ could score outside of 3 feet, but he's still useful getting there. The touchdown passes from Scottie to RJ do nothing for me. That's not good offense.

Sure, but I can't equivocate every time I post. I do understand that RJ has some potential for us, and he already has some value even on inefficient nights because he creates rim pressure. But he also isn't very good at scoring efficiently yet, and when he does that in volume, it hurts us. In the main because he has no reliable counters. So he gets to the rim and he can get up a shot... but the quality of that shot is often low and he will force it when he gets there because he can't effectively pull-up, can't post proficiently and doesn't have a reliable 3. I've gone back and forth about him in a bunch of threads, and I waffle between pessimism over his evident lack of development as a scorer and the absence of the environment which made him look so different last season, coupled to his youth and all that many times.

He's intriguing in the sense that he's one of the few guys we've ever had who creates legitimate rim pressure, but he's so bad right now that it's almost irrelevant. He has potential, and this is the season for exploring such things. And we need to try really hard to shape his shot diet more effectively, because that's what was working more last season. And we aren't doing it well right now. But that doesn't really address the underlying problem, which is his lack of finishing ability or counters.

Anyway, as I was saying, mid-50s isn't a sensible target. That still sucks. We need him much, much better than that, so him raising himself from efficiency in the 40s to efficiency in the mid-50s is mostly a moral victory, not any kind of substantive development.

I think the middle ground is less efficient than last year with more on ball creation (mainly through PnR). Last night he didn't get good results overall, but did settle the team down to build up their biggest lead of the game. He didn't get many calls, in part because Sling Blade was walking out to half court to chew out the crew every time the whistle blew against the Pistons. And his 3PT shooting drops from .405 to .269 on the road. That kind of result seems unsustainable. It's not about lack of counters or finishing (which I disagree with but will let it lie), but that he's adding new responsibilities to his overall package and his teammates have been inconsistent.

[ItsDanger]

His current stats are more closely aligned with his career numbers as opposed to the 32 games with Raps last season. Hard truths.

[tsherkin]

Yes it's a small sample size and just having 1 game out of 15 where he is between 51% TS and 66% is what's being pointed out.

Yes, sample size that small means small changes impact the overall average, I'm familiar with the concept.

But more games in that middle space wouldn't happen in a vacuum, it would likely also erode the upper bound of his efficiency, was my counterpoint. You can't just magically change the element you want without some other response. He is directly a feast/famine player based on his style of play.

It's not about lack of counters or finishing (which I disagree with but will let it lie), but that he's adding new responsibilities to his overall package and his teammates have been inconsistent.

There's not much to disagree with. He doesn't have a competent shooting from like 10 to 23 feet. He's within 0.2% of his career average in FG% from 0-3 feet, and it is WELL below league average. He's within 0.7% of his career average from 3-10, which is WELL below league average. He's completely incompetent from 10-16 feet and has no long 2 to speak of either. He basically doesn't ever shoot from there, either. He has taken less than 2 dozen shots from those two zones so far this season, or about 1.5 per game.

I agree that he has an increased burden on offense. That is fairly evident. He's setting a career-high in usage. And the proportion of his attempts which have passing support is well below even his career averages, which isn't helping at all. Those things are pushing him to the specific level he is at in terms of raw TS%.... which is still inside 1% of his career average.

His game is simplistic. He's passing better, which is nice to see, but his scoring approach is still very much raw and unrefined, lacking in tools to open things up for himself. The team environment isn't helping, but that means only so much. What we need from him is to develop more texture to his game and to be less predictable and linear. With all the usual caveats. Age, team environment, passing support, let's see over the remainder of the season, la la la. But this is still a dude who has a half-decade of NBA ball behind him prior to this season. We know who he is, and who he is not. What we're hoping is that he grows beyond that, and that's fine. That opportunity still exists. But that doesn't mean we should ignore where he is at the moment, or fight basic description of his game. RJ isn't a superstar. That means limitations and flaws and barriers and stuff pile up. That's normal. There's a reason he was available to us and that New York wasn't fighting to retain him. We are hoping we can provide an environment where he can get past the limitations which left the Knicks looking to move him. It's a gamble, because of his flaws and limitations.

His teammates and his increased responsibilities are a component of his tribulations, but his production has been in line with his career performance. He doesn't have a reliable perimeter game. He doesn't have a reliable middle game. He DOES have the ability to apply rim pressure and to get shots inside of 10 feet... but he struggles to finish them. He's 5-6% below league average on the closest shots in the game, and something like 9 or 10% below average on those short shots. He doesn't finish well, and he DOES force his way to those spots because he doesn't have proficiency with any kind of middle counters.

He doesn't really have throttle control yet which, in his defense, is fairly characteristic of young players. In many ways, he's kind of like a less-effective/athletic young Westbrook with a better attitude. He's intriguing enough to give him some rope this season, but he's not secretly SGA waiting to be unleashed. If he had an effective middle game, he'd be using it. But even his FT% helps us realize that he isn't much of a shooter at any level.

Only time will tell what we can get out of him. Patience is required, though it's a little challenging at times.