2024-2025 Regular Season Game 19: Orlando Magic (11-7) at Charlotte Hornets (6-10) - 7pm

[Knightro]

Said nothing about his pay in this post other than him being a signing. Thats you parsing my other posts. He WAS their primary target.

He's an nba starter bro. Role player or not he took 4 shots and made 1 last night, against bench players, while Orlando had a depleted back court being propped up by 2 2-year players.

You keep claiming hes been absolute dog **** because Paolo isnt on the floor with him. Sorry, thats just making excuses.

No, I'm decidedly not saying this in any respect.

KCP hasn't been good enough at what they signed him to do which was defend at a high level and make catch-and-shoot threes playing off two high usage shot creating forwards. He's defending fine, but the three point shooting has been completely unacceptable. He's simply missing far too many open shots that based on his history of making the same shots in other places he should be making.

But it's clear you have this very obvious dislike for Weltman which has grown even larger over the last 5-6 months because he didn't leverage the Magic's cap space in the way you would have done it.

And because Weltman chose KCP and KCP doesn't provide basically any of what you believe the Magic needed from a shot creation for other people perspective, you're even more down on the signing to the point where you're now starting to lose objectivity by suggesting KCP should be able to transition overnight from role player to primary scoring option.

And obviously you and I have known each other for like 10 years at this point and I know that you know that's nonsense. You and I agree way more than we disagree and I also believe your knowledge of basketball is a lot higher than that.

[three3d]

Said nothing about his pay in this post other than him being a signing. Thats you parsing my other posts. He WAS their primary target.

He's an nba starter bro. Role player or not he took 4 shots and made 1 last night, against bench players, while Orlando had a depleted back court being propped up by 2 2-year players.

You keep claiming hes been absolute dog **** because Paolo isnt on the floor with him. Sorry, thats just making excuses.

No, I'm decidedly not saying this in any respect.

KCP hasn't been good enough at what they signed him to do which was defend at a high level and make catch-and-shoot threes playing off two high usage shot creating forwards. He's defending fine, but the three point shooting has been completely unacceptable. He's simply missing far too many open shots that based on his history of making the same shots in other places he should be making.

But it's clear you have this very obvious dislike for Weltman which has grown even larger over the last 5-6 months because he didn't leverage the Magic's cap space in the way you would have done it.

And because Weltman chose KCP and KCP doesn't provide basically any of what you believe the Magic needed from a shot creation for other people perspective, you're even more down on the signing to the point where you're now starting to lose objectivity by suggesting KCP should be able to transition overnight from role player to primary scoring option.

And obviously you and I have known each other for like 10 years at this point and I know that you know that's nonsense. You and I agree way more than we disagree and I also believe your knowledge of basketball is a lot higher than that.

I didn’t catch anyone saying he should be the primary scoring option maybe I missed that. I don’t think asking him to be able to get double digits scoring nights should be out of the question however. He was a no show last night when the team could have used his scoring to help or his leadership to gather them together and calm down all the fast jacked up 3’s.

[three3d]

To double down on how poor KCP has played he’s only got three games of double digit scoring all season meanwhile our rookie TdS has four. Asking your starting shooting guard to average 10 ppg is kinda low standards isn’t it?

[Knightro]

If anyone wants to be pissed off that KCP isn't doing what the Magic signed him to do, that is 100% justifiable at this point. The shooting piece of the KCP equation has been that bad.

But if you're pissed off that KCP isn't doing something he really hasn't shown the capability of doing at any point in his recent career - aka stepping up into more of a shot taking/shot creating role due to injuries - that seems a bit silly to me because deep down you have enough understanding of basketball to know he pretty much can't do something like that at this point in his career.

And in the case of some of the people arguing that the most aggressively, I know that they do understand basketball at a high level, so it comes off especially disingenuous.

[JoshuaPotter]

Fultz was the key point of conflict and a primary reason to doubt this front office. He blocked AB, he brought negative spacing and reinforced the sense that the front office didn't value that factor, and he was a fan favorite which created a sense of frustrating inevitability.

Fultz saved this front office from themselves by unequivocally sucking. With him out of the equation it's easier to settle into a "I like this team" drum beat. Just my two cents on why more posters are highlighting positive developments and emphasizing positive outlooks vs last year.

I think we also see everyone having natural growth (minus Cole), on top of all that, currently being 11-7 "fixes" a lot of the teams current problems.

We are doing great as a team, the moment we miss a modest beat I expect attitudes to change. Hopefully we sustain a winning record until Paolo returns. Considering the strength of schedule I am not sure.

[Knightro]

For all intents and purposes, KCP is playing the exact same way he's played the last four or five years of his career in Denver, Washington and Los Angeles.

The only difference this year he's only making 22% of his threes instead of 40%.

If he was making 40% of his threes, his PPG would quite literally jump from 6.8 to over 9 and everyone would be like "yep, he's the same guy he's been the last 5 years".

[VFX]

Said nothing about his pay in this post other than him being a signing. Thats you parsing my other posts. He WAS their primary target.

He's an nba starter bro. Role player or not he took 4 shots and made 1 last night, against bench players, while Orlando had a depleted back court being propped up by 2 2-year players.

You keep claiming hes been absolute dog **** because Paolo isnt on the floor with him. Sorry, thats just making excuses.

No, I'm decidedly not saying this in any respect.

KCP hasn't been good enough at what they signed him to do which was defend at a high level and make catch-and-shoot threes playing off two high usage shot creating forwards. He's defending fine, but the three point shooting has been completely unacceptable. He's simply missing far too many open shots that based on his history of making the same shots in other places he should be making.

But it's clear you have this very obvious dislike for Weltman which has grown even larger over the last 5-6 months because he didn't leverage the Magic's cap space in the way you would have done it.

And because Weltman chose KCP and KCP doesn't provide basically any of what you believe the Magic needed from a shot creation for other people perspective, you're even more down on the signing to the point where you're now starting to lose objectivity by suggesting KCP should be able to transition overnight from role player to primary scoring option.

And obviously you and I have known each other for like 10 years at this point and I know that you know that's nonsense. You and I agree way more than we disagree and I also believe your knowledge of basketball is a lot higher than that.

Spoiler:

I dunno man. At the end of the day we know this organization will be true contenders when they make good decisions on the fringes by filling out these crucial roles. They have never been able to prove they can find those players outside of the draft. The first step was landing Paolo/Franz. Thats the easy part. Drafting well and making sense of your core organizational cornerstones.

Finding the Jrue, White, KP elements to surround your Tatum/Brown core is where they take that next step.

My issue with this is developmental more than the W/L column right this minute. I'm looking 1-3 seasons down the line and not at next weeks slate of games. The desire for Paolo and Franz to have an easier go at developing their offense within the context of a system that lends itself to winning games against good teams is the goal.

They have done that now without Paolo, but we need to be realistic about what we are watching offensively. Last night was brutal against a depleted bottom dwelling team. Signing a 31 year old low volume SG that takes 3 shots a game doesn't move the needle in that direction. He was an upgrade to the system they already had with Gary. They changed nothing about how it all operates.

Obviously the idealistic version of this is for AB to develop into a guy that provides a more diverse skillset in the starting lineup. He's at least able to put the ball on the floor and do more in the open court. Maybe they were banking on getting more from Jett and just took the L early.

If the argument is that none of this matters and we need Franz/Paolo to mature their games entirely before we start caring, then the FO should be providing a better system than what we have seen to aid in their development. The growing pains dont need to be bottom 10-15 offense if avoidable. They don't absolutely need those two guys to lean on iso heavy ball entirely as Orlando's complete identity on offense.

If the argument is that the wins and losses matter more now, then they should be making bigger moves (not to say that I even agree with that). I also don't think they are really interested in this avenue either right now. Which is why KCP was a middle of the road acquisition. He doesn't make you a contender and is a guy you add as a final piece to a contender when you have the rest figured out.

Either way, as I've said before, doubling and tripling down on the guys that fill out your roster isn't going to seamlessly make sense next to these guys. Its arguably never going to. Losing Fultz and adding KCP really solved nothing IMO outside of the rotation minutes. It just prolonged them from building a better system with better ball movement.

TLDR;

I haven’t been impressed with KCP as a signing in terms of improving the system or what he contributes on the floor whatsoever. He’s arguably not even a huge upgrade to Gary.

[RichCollab]

KCP has brought experience and leadership. Another coach on the floor. He is 100% solid on defense even when offense is bad.

Paolo and Franz are continuing to grow. We sign players who won’t out shine or have a negative impact.

My measurements on this being a success isn’t on points or 3pt percentage. He is known as a streaky shooter so if he is saving the best for the rest of the season or playoffs sign me up.

I am disappointed in our shooting as a whole and his non contribution.

We are 12 - 7. That’s a good start and all things considered a great start.

[eyriq]

I've heard that KCP is playing through injury.

[Knightro]

It just prolonged them from building a better system with better ball movement.

This ultimately feels like the disconnect between you and what the front office is thinking.

Whether they end up right or wrong, it's pretty clear at this point that the front office believes in Paolo, Franz, Suggs and Black's collective internal development as what will drive things forward with this team offensively.

Not adding a veteran point guard or anything else.

[Knightro]

I've heard that KCP is playing through injury.

Dante hinted at an elbow injury during one of the games and he has been wearing a big sleeve on his arm for a bit.

[RichCollab]

It just prolonged them from building a better system with better ball movement.

This ultimately feels like the disconnect between you and what the front office is thinking.

Whether they end up right or wrong, it's pretty clear at this point that the front office believes in Paolo, Franz, Suggs and Black's collective internal development as what will drive things forward with this team offensively.

Not adding a veteran point guard or anything else.

Black is trending towards likely a decent rookie extension. We would be lucky to keep everyone we have now.

[Knightro]

It just prolonged them from building a better system with better ball movement.

This ultimately feels like the disconnect between you and what the front office is thinking.

Whether they end up right or wrong, it's pretty clear at this point that the front office believes in Paolo, Franz, Suggs and Black's collective internal development as what will drive things forward with this team offensively.

Not adding a veteran point guard or anything else.

Black is trending towards likely a decent rookie extension. We would be lucky to keep everyone we have now.

Nothing to really worry about there.

KCP, Cole, Goga, Moritz, Harris, Houstan, Joseph will all be off the books by the time Black's 2nd contract even kicks in. Jett will be a free agent at the same time. They can also get out of Isaac's deal very easily by then if they are so inclined.

The only guys under fully guaranteed contracts when Black's 2nd deal kicks in would be Paolo, Franz, Suggs, Carter and likely TDS.

[VFX]

It just prolonged them from building a better system with better ball movement.

This ultimately feels like the disconnect between you and what the front office is thinking.

Whether they end up right or wrong, it's pretty clear at this point that the front office believes in Paolo, Franz, Suggs and Black's collective internal development as what will drive things forward with this team offensively.

Not adding a veteran point guard or anything else.

But why wouldn’t they want better ball movement?

Have they been watching the same team we are every week? At times there are 2-3 guys at most on the floor that are even capable of getting a bucket. Maybe 1 other guy not including Franz or Paolo.

KCP didn’t solve that issue this offseason… obviously.

[Skybox]

For all intents and purposes, KCP is playing the exact same way he's played the last four or five years of his career in Denver, Washington and Los Angeles.

The only difference this year he's only making 22% of his threes instead of 40%.

If he was making 40% of his threes, his PPG would quite literally jump from 6.8 to over 9 and everyone would be like "yep, he's the same guy he's been the last 5 years".

That's not a small thing when you "steal" him for half again the most he's ever made and guarantee it for 3 years...and he's about to turn 32.

[JoshuaPotter]

For all intents and purposes, KCP is playing the exact same way he's played the last four or five years of his career in Denver, Washington and Los Angeles.

The only difference this year he's only making 22% of his threes instead of 40%.

If he was making 40% of his threes, his PPG would quite literally jump from 6.8 to over 9 and everyone would be like "yep, he's the same guy he's been the last 5 years".

That's not a small thing when you "steal" him for half again the most he's ever made and guarantee it for 3 years...and he's about to turn 32.

But wait guys, isn't the whole point of my i dunno "point"? Not frustration mind you, not anger, or rioting, just literal point.

It's almost 20 games into the season and he isn't playing like the same player he has for the last 5 years. He is statistically worse.....in the main areas we looked to upgrade.

[RookieStar]

BTW... to our German posters here, whatbwas writtem pm those signs those 2 German fans in the stands were displaying? Somethinf about TEAM WQGNER

You have a screenshot or something?

Naaaah. I was just curious why CHA announcers/tv kept on showing those 2 dudes. Wondering if anyone here noticed it

[basketballRob]

I've heard that KCP is playing through injury.

Dante hinted at an elbow injury during one of the games and he has been wearing a big sleeve on his arm for a bit.

The elbow injury just happened during the Clippers game. I think he shot better after it happened.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[thelead]

All I need is for KCP to hit 38%+ of his 3pt attempts. The defense has been as advertised and has absolutely contributed to wins.

[Skybox]

All I need is for KCP to hit 38%+ of his 3pt attempts. The defense has been as advertised and has absolutely contributed to wins.

Absolutely...he's a very good player - when he does what he does. I certainly don't blame him for (IMO) not being the right piece for this team. I'm happy to be wrong.


Missing open shots is on him tho.