2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 2)

GiannisAnte34 · Post #61 » by **GiannisAnte34** » Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:58 pm

Tatum should never win an MVP with how many guys are better than him

Ssj16 · Post #62 » by **Ssj16** » Tue Nov 26, 2024 6:26 pm

Bornstellar wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:Jokic is the best RS player right now, but this award has always factored in team success. It would be weird if Jokic was exempt from that. There's a very good chance another player like SGA will have so much more team success that Jokic doesn't get it.

As long as Denver is around 50 wins and in the playoffs, if he continues playing like this he is going to win handily imo

This is the only caveat and I believe outside of injury to Jokic, there should almost be no excuse for this to happen.

Chessboxer · Post #63 » by **Chessboxer** » Tue Nov 26, 2024 6:35 pm

Magic Giannison wrote:Awfully quiet in here.

I mean, even he was still putting up those monster stats, you can't be giving a 4th MVP to a guy who's team is barely over .500 in my opinion. I don't care how good his analytics are. Especially since his team lost a 3-2 lead with homecourt advantage the previous playoffs and lost game 7 by the largest comeback margin in history.

When MJ won his 4th MVP he already three peated and was coming off 72-10 season. We must have some standards here.

falcolombardi · Post #64 » by **falcolombardi** » Tue Nov 26, 2024 6:38 pm

Jokic winning a 3rd mvp with another season in the 48-52 wins range would be quite the historical outlier.

Not even 70's kareem got that more than once and he was pretty damn ahead of his peers back then for the most part

Post #65 » by **slick_watts** » Tue Nov 26, 2024 7:07 pm

wins and mvp's are stupid. denver is elite when he's in the game and is one of the worst in the league when he's not. jokic can't control what happens when he's on the bench. penalizing him for that is dumb.

Special_Puppy · Post #66 » by **Special_Puppy** » Tue Nov 26, 2024 7:22 pm

Chessboxer wrote:
Magic Giannison wrote:Awfully quiet in here.

I mean, even he was still putting up those monster stats, you can't be giving a 4th MVP to a guy who's team is barely over .500 in my opinion. I don't care how good his analytics are. Especially since his team lost a 3-2 lead with homecourt advantage the previous playoffs and lost game 7 by the largest comeback margin in history.

When MJ won his 4th MVP he already three peated and was coming off 72-10 season. We must have some standards here.

If Denver is barely over 0.500 because Jokic isn't the most valuable player this season then you shouldn't give it to Jokic. If Denver is barely over 0.500 because his supporting cast is bad then I don't see why it makes to punish Jokic for something he doesn't control.

Special_Puppy · Post #67 » by **Special_Puppy** » Tue Nov 26, 2024 7:25 pm

GiannisAnte34 wrote:Tatum should never win an MVP with how many guys are better than him

Tatum is having a great season tbf.

Doranku · Post #68 » by **Doranku** » Tue Nov 26, 2024 7:37 pm

SGA is going to win the award this year. He has the narrative now with Chet being out a significant portion of the season. They're still going to win the west now that iHart is back and SGA is playing as good as ever.

yannisk · Post #69 » by **yannisk** » Tue Nov 26, 2024 7:37 pm

Special_Puppy wrote:
Chessboxer wrote:
Magic Giannison wrote:Awfully quiet in here.

I mean, even he was still putting up those monster stats, you can't be giving a 4th MVP to a guy who's team is barely over .500 in my opinion. I don't care how good his analytics are. Especially since his team lost a 3-2 lead with homecourt advantage the previous playoffs and lost game 7 by the largest comeback margin in history.

When MJ won his 4th MVP he already three peated and was coming off 72-10 season. We must have some standards here.

If Denver is barely over 0.500 because Jokic isn't the most valuable player this season then you shouldn't give it to Jokic. If Denver is barely over 0.500 because his supporting cast is bad then I don't see why it makes to punish Jokic for something he doesn't control.

Not saying you are not right because you are. But the award carries a historical precedent where team's success is a component of the criteria. Every year the weight of team success is different, sometimes it is "the best player on the best team" sometimes the best player in one of the top teams. But in general players on 0.500 teams don't get the mvp award. Similarly as players on the losing team in the finals do not get the finals mvp even if they had the best performance

scrabbarista · Post #70 » by **scrabbarista** » Tue Nov 26, 2024 8:06 pm

GiannisAnte34 wrote:Tatum should never win an MVP with how many guys are better than him

Booo. Have some faith!

Infinite Llamas · Post #71 » by **Infinite Llamas** » Tue Nov 26, 2024 8:59 pm

Chessboxer wrote:
Magic Giannison wrote:Awfully quiet in here.

I mean, even he was still putting up those monster stats, you can't be giving a 4th MVP to a guy who's team is barely over .500 in my opinion. I don't care how good his analytics are. Especially since his team lost a 3-2 lead with homecourt advantage the previous playoffs and lost game 7 by the largest comeback margin in history.

When MJ won his 4th MVP he already three peated and was coming off 72-10 season. We must have some standards here.

What the hell do last years playoffs have to do with anything? But if that’s the case, Shai also got ousted in round 2 and Giannis didn’t play a single game. So based on your criteria, Tatum is the only option.

GiannisAnte34 · Post #72 » by **GiannisAnte34** » Tue Nov 26, 2024 9:06 pm

scrabbarista wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:Tatum should never win an MVP with how many guys are better than him

Booo. Have some faith!

Have faith that at least 5 players will stop performing better than Tatum?

scrabbarista · Post #73 » by **scrabbarista** » Tue Nov 26, 2024 9:12 pm

GiannisAnte34 wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:Tatum should never win an MVP with how many guys are better than him

Booo. Have some faith!

Have faith that at least 5 players will stop performing better than Tatum?

He can improve!

He has improved!

Have faith!!!

Johnny Firpo · Post #74 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:14 pm

slick_watts wrote:wins and mvp's are stupid. denver is elite when he's in the game and is one of the worst in the league when he's not. jokic can't control what happens when he's on the bench. penalizing him for that is dumb.

Absolutely, and thank you. Also, I want to add, let's say that you written, has been done in the past, or even multiple times. If it was wrong, you shouldn't repeat it and say it's a standard. No, it isn't, people in the past simply did not have/did not understand advanced stats. It's a new game, and it's logical to have a new standard, which is giving the award to the best, most impactful player. He still has to win around 50 with his team, so it's not like team wins don't matter at all, but they are likely the 2nd criteria now, after individual impact.

Woodsanity · Post #75 » by **Woodsanity** » Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:29 pm

Is it crazy to think that Kat has a top 10 mvp case? Of course he would be in the bottom end of top 10.

Moose · Post #76 » by **Moose** » Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:55 pm

scrabbarista wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:
Booo. Have some faith!

Have faith that at least 5 players will stop performing better than Tatum?

He can improve!

He has improved!

Have faith!!!

He's like 19. The dude has time. Chill.

Ron Swanson · Post #77 » by **Ron Swanson** » Tue Nov 26, 2024 11:01 pm

I could care less about W/L record this early in the season. At some point though, yes, the entire point of playing basketball (winning games) has to matter. It was part of the reason why I thought it was dumb they gave it to Embiid in 2023 when Jokic put up those numbers while also leading Denver to the 1-seed. If SGA continues to carry-over his statistical trajectory from last season and OKC continues to juggernaut through the West (11.27 SRS) while arguably their 2nd best player misses the majority of the season? He absolutely deserves it and I don't wanna hear any crying about "voter fatigue".

Special_Puppy · Post #78 » by **Special_Puppy** » Wed Nov 27, 2024 12:13 am

Ron Swanson wrote:I could care less about W/L record this early in the season. At some point though, yes, the entire point of playing basketball (winning games) has to matter. It was part of the reason why I thought it was dumb they gave it to Embiid in 2023 when Jokic put up those numbers while also leading Denver to the 1-seed. If SGA continues to carry-over his statistical trajectory from last season and OKC continues to juggernaut through the West (11.27 SRS) while arguably their 2nd best player misses the majority of the season? He absolutely deserves it and I don't wanna hear any crying about "voter fatigue".

If SGA leads the Thunder to the 1 seed because he is the most valuable player this season then he absolutely deserves the MVP. Otherwise, no someone else deserves it more

WarriorGM · Post #79 » by **WarriorGM** » Wed Nov 27, 2024 12:15 am

Ron Swanson wrote:I could care less about W/L record this early in the season. At some point though, yes, the entire point of playing basketball (winning games) has to matter. It was part of the reason why I thought it was dumb they gave it to Embiid in 2023 when Jokic put up those numbers while also leading Denver to the 1-seed. If SGA continues to carry-over his statistical trajectory from last season and OKC continues to juggernaut through the West (11.27 SRS) while arguably their 2nd best player misses the majority of the season? He absolutely deserves it and I don't wanna hear any crying about "voter fatigue".

Just needed to point out though that the 76ers finished with 54 wins and the Nuggets with 53 wins.

GSP · Post #80 » by **GSP** » Wed Nov 27, 2024 5:21 am

He wont win Mvp but atp Im comfortable saying he should easily finish top 5 at least. Only got Sga, Jokic, Jayson over him. Defensive dropoff even wilder theyre a bottom 5 defense in games he missed and above average when he plays which makes sense b/c Kd, Royce, Dunn, Okogie are only players on that team who play defense

Who is leading the MVP race?