Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8

[Vampirate]

One thing I'm willing to give Scottie some more rope on, is just the amount of games he's behind RJ both from the age/experience perspective, and the injuries.

A broken hand that required surgery is pretty detrimental to shooting I imagine, and so is a busted orbital bone lol. But I'm mostly with you that his offensive game has progressed pretty slowly. But considering he had zero offensive game coming into the NBA, I'm not super surprised about it. He might be a bit of a late bloomer due to not really being put into a scoring role in college etc, could also be wishful thinking on my end.

Overall, I think that Scottie has shown a lot of dedication to getting better and it seems/sounds like he is a hard worker in practice. And while natural talent is a great thing to have, hard work can get you close. If he ends up being league average efficiency, I think we have a great player on our hands.

he didn't have 0 offensive game, he did flash some signs of a mid-range game, though it was a lot rare in his rookie year

however, he's shown encouraging signs

He put up 10ppg on below average efficiency, that's not exactly what I would call an offensive game lol. All I'm saying is he definitely did not come from college with anyone confusing him with an offensive player.

His shooting form when he got here was ugly, he basically had to rework the damn thing which took years probably.

[tsherkin]

Ya, it's encouraging to see Barnes is driving facing the basket....i won't say Barnes is yet an all-NBA player yet but he's getting closer, and credit goes to Darko for that.

if he keeps it up, we may see Barnes being closer to that 23 PPG, 8 Rebound, 6 assist type player for 34% 3pt shooting and a passable mid-ranger next year

Scottie reminds me of a lot of old veterans when I watch him drive.

He's slow as balls, no burst. But he does use screens well, and he is also pretty craft about getting guys on his hip and using his size to get to at least the elbow, sometimes to the low block. What he needs to work on is finishing options and ability once he gets there, including counters moving him into the lane. A turnaround J, an elbow pull-up. Moving into a backdown and maybe getting a spin or pivot, etc. Maybe a floater. Something. He's got some reasonable finishing in the short range already, but he needs to finish in close better and, ideally, to get in tight much more. Against Detroit, he actually did a great job getting close, he just couldn't close it out in the RA, which was frustrating. Maybe gassed after the first half or something, because he's usually pretty reasonable there and he shot a LOT against the Pistons.

A league-average 3 would go a long way to helping as well, as long as he moderates his volume.

So much is contingent on real development of his shot, though. He has some compelling tools as a foundation, so we'll see what happens. This should be a useful development season if he can stay healthy. Last season was going to be a bunch of that too before the hand injury, so I hope he can manage it this year. The goggles aren't a bad look, either, haha.

And then there's Jalen Green who can get any shot from the perimeter he wants due to his athleticism but doesn't have the height, strength to get easy looks inside the three point line. Basically the anti Barnes.

Oh, Jalen Green...

[anotherhomer]

Ya, it's encouraging to see Barnes is driving facing the basket....i won't say Barnes is yet an all-NBA player yet but he's getting closer, and credit goes to Darko for that.

if he keeps it up, we may see Barnes being closer to that 23 PPG, 8 Rebound, 6 assist type player for 34% 3pt shooting and a passable mid-ranger next year

Scottie reminds me of a lot of old veterans when I watch him drive.

He's slow as balls, no burst. But he does use screens well, and he is also pretty craft about getting guys on his hip and using his size to get to at least the elbow, sometimes to the low block. What he needs to work on is finishing options and ability once he gets there, including counters moving him into the lane. A turnaround J, an elbow pull-up. Moving into a backdown and maybe getting a spin or pivot, etc. Maybe a floater. Something. He's got some reasonable finishing in the short range already, but he needs to finish in close better and, ideally, to get in tight much more. Against Detroit, he actually did a great job getting close, he just couldn't close it out in the RA, which was frustrating. Maybe gassed after the first half or something, because he's usually pretty reasonable there and he shot a LOT against the Pistons.

A league-average 3 would go a long way to helping as well, as long as he moderates his volume.

So much is contingent on real development of his shot, though. He has some compelling tools as a foundation, so we'll see what happens. This should be a useful development season if he can stay healthy. Last season was going to be a bunch of that too before the hand injury, so I hope he can manage it this year. The goggles aren't a bad look, either, haha.

And then there's Jalen Green who can get any shot from the perimeter he wants due to his athleticism but doesn't have the height, strength to get easy looks inside the three point line. Basically the anti Barnes.

it's a good take on his shot, and that he'll need to get more crafty since he doesn't have that much burst....i think he's getting there

[dTox]

I had bad feelings about Green and Kuminga heading into their draft and it turned out to be true, not a fan of tunnel visioned wings who can't defend. And now, it seems like neither can score effectively. Toronto and Orlando got very lucky for the draft to fall the way it did.

[OakleyDokely]

This season:

1st Q: 8.0 MIN, 3.9 PPG, .479 TS
2nd Q: 8.1 MIN, 5.4 PPG, .563 TS
3rd Q: 9.0 MIN, 3.0 PPG, .383 TS
4th Q: 9.4 MIN, 9.5 PPG, .635 TS

It's happening again.

4th Q Scottie is an all--nba, 1st option. But he doesn't do enough in the first 3 Qs.

[mdenny]

This season:

1st Q: 8.0 MIN, 3.9 PPG, .479 TS
2nd Q: 8.1 MIN, 5.4 PPG, .563 TS
3rd Q: 9.0 MIN, 3.0 PPG, .383 TS
4th Q: 9.4 MIN, 9.5 PPG, .635 TS

It's happening again.

4th Q Scottie is an all--nba, 1st option. But he doesn't do enough in the first 3 Qs.

It is happening again.

"OK Google please find me a stat combination that makes it appear that our very regular and mundane blue chip prospect is on track for a historic career".

Let's suppose there is currently 30 blue chip prospects in the league. Do you rank scotty any higher than 10th to 15thish among them?

All-nba first option? Bro that's jolic and SGA and Doncic territory. Scottie in not all-nba and he is certainly not the first option on any of them even if they elected 10 all nba lineups.

I don't think scotty would be the first option on the 20th best elected lineup in the nba.

[OakleyDokely]

This season:

1st Q: 8.0 MIN, 3.9 PPG, .479 TS
2nd Q: 8.1 MIN, 5.4 PPG, .563 TS
3rd Q: 9.0 MIN, 3.0 PPG, .383 TS
4th Q: 9.4 MIN, 9.5 PPG, .635 TS

It's happening again.

4th Q Scottie is an all--nba, 1st option. But he doesn't do enough in the first 3 Qs.

It is happening again.

"OK Google please find me a stat combination that makes it appear that our very regular and mundane blue chip prospect is on track for a historic career".

Let's suppose there is currently 30 blue chip prospects in the league. Do you rank scotty any higher than 10th to 15thish among them?

What the hell are you blathering about?

All I'm putting out is that consistently throughout Scottie's career so far, he's performed at a very high level in the 4th Q, but he hasn't been able to put it together throughout an entire game.

[mdenny]

This season:

1st Q: 8.0 MIN, 3.9 PPG, .479 TS
2nd Q: 8.1 MIN, 5.4 PPG, .563 TS
3rd Q: 9.0 MIN, 3.0 PPG, .383 TS
4th Q: 9.4 MIN, 9.5 PPG, .635 TS

It's happening again.

4th Q Scottie is an all--nba, 1st option. But he doesn't do enough in the first 3 Qs.

It is happening again.

"OK Google please find me a stat combination that makes it appear that our very regular and mundane blue chip prospect is on track for a historic career".

Let's suppose there is currently 30 blue chip prospects in the league. Do you rank scotty any higher than 10th to 15thish among them?

What the hell are you blathering about?

All I'm putting out is that consistently throughout Scottie's career so far, he's performed at a very high level in the 4th Q, but he hasn't been able to put it together throughout an entire game.

That's clearly NOT all you were saying.

You said "first option on an all-nba team". If you rein in the hyperbole I will stop pointing it out.

[Scase]

It is happening again.

"OK Google please find me a stat combination that makes it appear that our very regular and mundane blue chip prospect is on track for a historic career".

Let's suppose there is currently 30 blue chip prospects in the league. Do you rank scotty any higher than 10th to 15thish among them?

What the hell are you blathering about?

All I'm putting out is that consistently throughout Scottie's career so far, he's performed at a very high level in the 4th Q, but he hasn't been able to put it together throughout an entire game.

That's clearly NOT all you were saying.

You said "first option on an all-nba team". If you rein in the hyperbole I will stop pointing it out.

You need to hire an English tutor. He's saying that Scottie plays like an All NBA player in the 4th quarter, much like he did last year.

[OakleyDokely]

It is happening again.

"OK Google please find me a stat combination that makes it appear that our very regular and mundane blue chip prospect is on track for a historic career".

Let's suppose there is currently 30 blue chip prospects in the league. Do you rank scotty any higher than 10th to 15thish among them?

What the hell are you blathering about?

All I'm putting out is that consistently throughout Scottie's career so far, he's performed at a very high level in the 4th Q, but he hasn't been able to put it together throughout an entire game.

That's clearly NOT all you were saying.

You said "first option on an all-nba team". If you rein in the hyperbole I will stop pointing it out.

IN THE 4TH Q only

[TheGeneral99]

I do agree with the above that by the eye test and the stats support it Scottie does play better at the end of games.

This is largely due to his unselfishness in my opinion.

The coaches probably need to work with him to get more aggressive early on instead of being passive at times.

[earth007]

This season:

1st Q: 8.0 MIN, 3.9 PPG, .479 TS
2nd Q: 8.1 MIN, 5.4 PPG, .563 TS
3rd Q: 9.0 MIN, 3.0 PPG, .383 TS
4th Q: 9.4 MIN, 9.5 PPG, .635 TS

It's happening again.

4th Q Scottie is an all--nba, 1st option. But he doesn't do enough in the first 3 Qs.

It is happening again.

"OK Google please find me a stat combination that makes it appear that our very regular and mundane blue chip prospect is on track for a historic career".

Let's suppose there is currently 30 blue chip prospects in the league. Do you rank scotty any higher than 10th to 15thish among them?

What the hell are you blathering about?

All I'm putting out is that consistently throughout Scottie's career so far, he's performed at a very high level in the 4th Q, but he hasn't been able to put it together throughout an entire game.

I think Scottie stole his GF or something. He is just looking for a reason to hate on the guy.

[OakleyDokely]

Scottie Barnes, 4th Q, last 3 seasons:

22/23: 9.3 MIN, 5.1 PTS, .575 TS (.524 TS% overall on season)
23/24: 9.1 MIN, 6.0 PTS, .614 TS (.566 TS% overall on season)
24/25: 9.4 MIN, 9.5 PTS .635 TS (.533 TS% overall on season)

[sidsid]

This season:

1st Q: 8.0 MIN, 3.9 PPG, .479 TS
2nd Q: 8.1 MIN, 5.4 PPG, .563 TS
3rd Q: 9.0 MIN, 3.0 PPG, .383 TS
4th Q: 9.4 MIN, 9.5 PPG, .635 TS

It's happening again.

4th Q Scottie is an all--nba, 1st option. But he doesn't do enough in the first 3 Qs.

Ironically enough, the most high leverage, individual parts of the game are where he thrives.

Although I'll continue to beat on the Jak problem (and his earlier seasons being focused on vets), his natural instincts and playmaking style should thrive in the more free flowing parts of the game. Part of this is figuring out role and the game "slowing down" for him at some point (and Jak being off the team).

The 4th Q is very simple and the game slows down for everyone. Still surprising that this remains his strongest Q after all the scouting and attention he's getting, but the best sign you can have considering where his best strengths are.

[mdenny]

What the hell are you blathering about?

All I'm putting out is that consistently throughout Scottie's career so far, he's performed at a very high level in the 4th Q, but he hasn't been able to put it together throughout an entire game.

That's clearly NOT all you were saying.

You said "first option on an all-nba team". If you rein in the hyperbole I will stop pointing it out.

IN THE 4TH Q only

First option on the all nba team is what you said. There are more than 70 nba players in the league who can put up these numbers on a 4 and 14 team. Including the 4th quarter numbers. You just aren't cherry-picking from all the details of other players stats to make them look like their potential is so much more than their actual production (such as first option, all nba team)

You could do that with any player. You're just combing thru evidence to find combinations and details that project to your priors.

Meanwhile....there is literally nothing about Barnes' game that suggests he is on level with jokic or doncic or Shae. The players that would be first options on nba teams. Comb through the stats at your heart's content. We have eyes.

[OakleyDokely]

That's clearly NOT all you were saying.

You said "first option on an all-nba team". If you rein in the hyperbole I will stop pointing it out.

IN THE 4TH Q only

First option on the all nba team is what you said. There are more than 70 nba players in the league who can put up these numbers on a 4 and 14 team. Including the 4th quarter numbers. You just aren't cherry-picking from all the details of other players stats to make them look like their potential is so much more than their actual production (such as first option, all nba team)

You could do that with any player.

4th Q Scottie is an all--nba, 1st option. But he doesn't do enough in the first 3 Qs.

I honestly don't know how to be much clearer than this...

[HumbleRen]

I do agree with the above that by the eye test and the stats support it Scottie does play better at the end of games.

This is largely due to his unselfishness in my opinion.

The coaches probably need to work with him to get more aggressive early on instead of being passive at times.

It’s not his unselfishness. He’s either not trying hard enough, doesn’t have the stamina or is just not mature yet in how he approaches offence.

The stark difference from the 4th and the other quarters is he’s just simply trying harder to either get to the rim or get a foul drawn. That’s the major difference.

Even Tatum has this issue but he luckily has a jumpshot to rely on. It’s way less taxing stamina wise. Not everyone is mentally built like Lebron, Russ or Giannis, having the intention to basically bully drive to the rim on every possession is just something most NBA athletes don’t have.

[Jerry Lucas]

It is happening again.

"OK Google please find me a stat combination that makes it appear that our very regular and mundane blue chip prospect is on track for a historic career".

Let's suppose there is currently 30 blue chip prospects in the league. Do you rank scotty any higher than 10th to 15thish among them?

What the hell are you blathering about?

All I'm putting out is that consistently throughout Scottie's career so far, he's performed at a very high level in the 4th Q, but he hasn't been able to put it together throughout an entire game.

I think Scottie stole his GF or something. He is just looking for a reason to hate on the guy.

Nah mdenny has been pretty open about why he hates Scottie, and it's not what you just said. Basically he thinks some mythical "toxic Scottie brigade" is responsible for "running FVV out of town." And if it weren't for them, his beloved Fred VanVleet would still be a Raptor. He loves FVV so much that he wanted the Raptors make him the 1st active player/head coach in franchise history. I swear someone has that post as their sig lol.

[OakleyDokely]

Top scoring 4th Q players this season (min 5 games played):

1. L Ball: 10.7 PTS
2. S Barnes: 9.4 PTS
3. K Irving: 8.2 PTS
4. D Mitchell: 7.9 PTS
5. N Jokic: 7.7 PTS
6. K Durant: 7.7 PTS
7. C Thomas: 7.7 PTS
8. D DeRozan: 7.5 PTS
9. J Butler: 7.4 PTS
10. B Mathurin: 7.4 PTS

[ItsDanger]

Scottie defers earlier in games to teammates to get them going. Many great players do this as well, knowing they can look for their own offense as needed. The issue currently is twofold. He waits too long to pick up his scoring and he doesn't have ultimate confidence in his teammates yet. These will be rectified if Raps get a top prospect in 2025 draft that can create their shot consistently.