Bulls Committing to Matas over PWill?

[Chi town]

In my mind they compliment each other nearly perfectly. If they both work out the way I think they can, anyway.

Not so much with Giddey though.

I’d move Giddey long before I would Pat.

[DuckIII]

In my mind they compliment each other nearly perfectly. If they both work out the way I think they can, anyway.

Not so much with Giddey though.

I’d move Giddey long before I would Pat.

Me too. There are quite a few players on this team I would move before Pat. Almost all of them, actually. But that is different than saying he’s better than all of those guys.

[Dez]

In my mind they compliment each other nearly perfectly. If they both work out the way I think they can, anyway.

Not so much with Giddey though.

I’d move Giddey long before I would Pat.

How do they not work with Giddey?

Pat isn't creating **** for himself and Matas needs way more development to be a scoring threat.

[DuckIII]

In my mind they compliment each other nearly perfectly. If they both work out the way I think they can, anyway.

Not so much with Giddey though.

I’d move Giddey long before I would Pat.

How do they not work with Giddey?

Pat isn't creating **** for himself and Matas needs way more development to be a scoring threat.

Unfortunately, the more I see the more I am trending towards not wanting to make anyone “work with” Giddey unless he’s like a 7th man on a reasonable deal.

[boozapalooza]

You sign him because he has potential but trading him was always on the table. You have no cap space to replace him if you don't resign and you are just down an asset (even if only salary filler which is huge under the CBA). The intention could always have been open to trading him Matas aside. Long term the bet was on Matas it would appear from an outside view, but Pat was likely always attainable in a trade. He walks as said you still just lost an asset for a trade and have nothing to show for it.

I agree with the thought that signing him for 5/90 is better than losing a talented 23 year old for nothing. Since he was a RFA, they probably should have just let a team offer a contract and match it. But the point is Matas is forcing the issue and speeding up the timeline of a potential PWill trade.

Matas has a negative win score, a PER of 8.8, a TS add % of -12%, is shooting 37% from the field and 33% from 3, and is regularly destroyed on defense. He's got a lot of highlight real plays on both ends that are extremely tantalizing, but he's not yet an effective player. I don't think he's pushing anyone anywhere if you are trying to win basketball games, and there's also no reason you can't have him and PWill on the floor together or in the long term vision together.

Respect ya Doug but Matas current stats through 18 games with sporadic minutes are completely irrelevant. This year is just about development for him. What I’ve seen is a guy with the ideal size for today’s NBA, fluid athlete, high energy, swagger & confidence in his ability, and a shot that will continue to improve. Its about potential and he has flashed it for sure. Billy’s finally getting the memo as tonight is his 4th game in a row with 20+ mins.

Also, have seen you refer to this as a weak draft class. That was certainly the case going into it, but the class seems fairly strong now. Guys like Sarr, Risacharie, McCain, Knecht, Castle, Edey, Clingan, Sheppard are all off to solid starts. There is no clear cut superstar but it looks like a pretty deep and underrated class of guys who will stick around the league for a long time.

[Chi town]

Not so much with Giddey though.

I’d move Giddey long before I would Pat.

How do they not work with Giddey?

Pat isn't creating **** for himself and Matas needs way more development to be a scoring threat.

Unfortunately, the more I see the more I am trending towards not wanting to make anyone “work with” Giddey unless he’s like a 7th man on a reasonable deal.

Giddey can’t do anything but pass.

Can’t and doesn’t shoot 3’s.

Offers no gravity on offense.

Can’t take anyone off the dribble.

Can’t and doesn’t post up.

Dude can only shoot when going down hill but it only happens a couple timed a game because his motor runs hot and cold.

Did I mention he’s Vuc level bad on D as a wing? He has no lateral quickness and low IQ and effort on D.

I don’t want him any part of the future of this team. AK made a big mistake not getting two 1sts for Caruso.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

How do they not work with Giddey?

Pat isn't creating **** for himself and Matas needs way more development to be a scoring threat.

Unfortunately, the more I see the more I am trending towards not wanting to make anyone “work with” Giddey unless he’s like a 7th man on a reasonable deal.

Giddey can’t do anything but pass.

Can’t and doesn’t shoot 3’s.

Offers no gravity on offense.

Can’t take anyone off the dribble.

Can’t and doesn’t post up.

Dude can only shoot when going down hill but it only happens a couple timed a game because his motor runs hot and cold.

Did I mention he’s Vuc level bad on D as a wing? He has no lateral quickness and low IQ and effort on D.

I don’t want him any part of the future of this team. AK made a big mistake not getting two 1sts for Caruso.

Two firsts for Caruso? Was it the 22nd and 29th picks?

Can't and doesn't shoot 3's? He's shooting 3.5 per game at a 38% clip this season.

Can't and doesn't post up? I've seen him be much more aggressive at the rim lately. He's not a PF who's going to back someone down, but he does take it to the rim.

Speaking of Vuc, he's having one of the best years of his career because guys like Giddey move the ball and Giddey rarely turns the ball over.

And then you factor in that Giddey is only 23 years old. He's improved his 3pt shot every year. He's getting the FT line more than any previous year. He's 6'8" but he's never going to be a bruiser in the post. He's also a really solid rebounder for his role.

I think prime Josh Giddey could be a very nice player to put along side guys like Matas, Pat, and Ayo. Add a rim-running, shot-blocking center (can we have Daniel Gafford back please?), and you have a legit exciting team with size, shooting, defense, and ball movement.

[pipfan]

I could live with Ayo/Matas/PWill long term at the 1, 3, 4
We need a top scoring 2 guard (younger Lavine would be great) and a good center

Trade White once he gets a hot streak going

[dougthonus]

Respect ya Doug but Matas current stats through 18 games with sporadic minutes are completely irrelevant. This year is just about development for him. What I’ve seen is a guy with the ideal size for today’s NBA, fluid athlete, high energy, swagger & confidence in his ability, and a shot that will continue to improve. Its about potential and he has flashed it for sure. Billy’s finally getting the memo as tonight is his 4th game in a row with 20+ mins.

That's an entirely different point than he is pushing someone like Pat Williams out of the lineup, but I agree with this point.

Also, have seen you refer to this as a weak draft class. That was certainly the case going into it, but the class seems fairly strong now. Guys like Sarr, Risacharie, McCain, Knecht, Castle, Edey, Clingan, Sheppard are all off to solid starts. There is no clear cut superstar but it looks like a pretty deep and underrated class of guys who will stick around the league for a long time.

Sure, we'll see what happens long term, there is a big difference between what people look like as prospects and where they end up in their careers.

[Almost Retired]

The only thing the Bulls have committed to is mediocrity.

But you have to admire their consistency about it! They picked a lane and they own that lane, now and for the foreseeable future. We just have to pray for a Top 3 pick in the 2025 Draft.

[Chi town]

I could live with Ayo/Matas/PWill long term at the 1, 3, 4
We need a top scoring 2 guard (younger Lavine would be great) and a good center

Trade White once he gets a hot streak going

Those are the 3 I’d look to move fwd with.

Better hope we get our cornerstone and #1 option in this draft. That player makes the rest of these players look much better.

[Michael Jackson]

You sign him because he has potential but trading him was always on the table. You have no cap space to replace him if you don't resign and you are just down an asset (even if only salary filler which is huge under the CBA). The intention could always have been open to trading him Matas aside. Long term the bet was on Matas it would appear from an outside view, but Pat was likely always attainable in a trade. He walks as said you still just lost an asset for a trade and have nothing to show for it.

I agree with the thought that signing him for 5/90 is better than losing a talented 23 year old for nothing. Since he was a RFA, they probably should have just let a team offer a contract and match it. But the point is Matas is forcing the issue and speeding up the timeline of a potential PWill trade.

I agree they should have let the market decide. Much like what happened with Zac and Sacto. Sadly though Pats contract likely is what the stupid open market offers and what players are getting paid today. I don’t think he would have gotten more though and they should have let the market chose the number, even if I think it would be the same #

[Chi town]

I want to see Pat play with Buz.

Want to see what our defense looks like with them together. Add in Zo and Smith and it should be good.

Billy has been subbing Zo/Terry with Buz for Coby Giddey/Ayo at the 6 min mark.

I’d like to see Zo Buz for Giddey Coby and run
Zo Lavine Pat Buz Vuc.

[MrSparkle]

Despite the Pat rumor… I don’t think the FO is actually looking to move an injured guy with career worst numbers.

Ultimately, this FO has to look in the mirror and realize that 1-way guys CAN NOT exist in the NBA anymore, unless they’re exceptional. And even then, I trust Luka, Jokic and Curry to make a much better defensive play than a Vuc, Zach or Giddey.

So they’re actually onto something OK with Dalen, Julian, Matas and Pat. Problem is these are very underskilled or flawed shooters, but logically speaking, you’d rather hold this cheap lot (and Ayo) for a few years while tanking, then give them away before they even hit their primes.

Still think move 1a is trading Zach, Vuc and getting a top-5 pick.

[nitetrain8603]

You sign him because he has potential but trading him was always on the table. You have no cap space to replace him if you don't resign and you are just down an asset (even if only salary filler which is huge under the CBA). The intention could always have been open to trading him Matas aside. Long term the bet was on Matas it would appear from an outside view, but Pat was likely always attainable in a trade. He walks as said you still just lost an asset for a trade and have nothing to show for it.

I don't agree with this. You don't sign him to a 90 million deal after seeing what he is after 4 years just because he might become an asset later.

That's poor use of funds. If he walks, yes, through a telescopic lens you let a player (bad one at that) walk away without money to resign a replacement. You also gain PT for another player like Buzelis and you march towards the path of cap space to sign someone better than him (not hard). Maybe not this year, but next year after you've traded Zach and Vuc.

Sick of signing players because you fear they will contribute to another losing team as opposed to they will contribute to your team.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

[vxmike]

You sign him because he has potential but trading him was always on the table. You have no cap space to replace him if you don't resign and you are just down an asset (even if only salary filler which is huge under the CBA). The intention could always have been open to trading him Matas aside. Long term the bet was on Matas it would appear from an outside view, but Pat was likely always attainable in a trade. He walks as said you still just lost an asset for a trade and have nothing to show for it.

He’s already a bad contract though. So you see any team taking him for free at this point?

[Chi town]

Pat could easily get an expiring back.

Dubs have Melton ou with an ACL and expiring of 13M.

Anyone up for Pat for Kuminga? Kuminga will want more than Pat’s contract. He’s way more impactful than Pat but he can’t shoot.

I think I’d probably take Kuminga over Pat due to health alone. Kuminga has a higher floor and ceiling. He makes dunks too.

[sco]

Pat could easily get an expiring back.

Dubs have Melton ou with an ACL and expiring of 13M.

Anyone up for Pat for Kuminga? Kuminga will want more than Pat’s contract. He’s way more impactful than Pat but he can’t shoot.

I think I’d probably take Kuminga over Pat due to health alone. Kuminga has a higher floor and ceiling. He makes dunks too.

I'm sure we'd never get there, but I wouldn't hate a starting line-up of Ball, Ayo, Matas, Kuminga, Smith and have a couple of extra 1sts in the bank for the future.

[Onibuh]

Bulls should commit to both as of now. Play them together and see if it works.

This year is about development and what they have going might work out in the future. Real question should be Coby and if you keep him or not. I think this team needs Lavine more.

[Michael Jackson]

You sign him because he has potential but trading him was always on the table. You have no cap space to replace him if you don't resign and you are just down an asset (even if only salary filler which is huge under the CBA). The intention could always have been open to trading him Matas aside. Long term the bet was on Matas it would appear from an outside view, but Pat was likely always attainable in a trade. He walks as said you still just lost an asset for a trade and have nothing to show for it.

He’s already a bad contract though. So you see any team taking him for free at this point?

As a salary piece yeah absolutely. Very much an asset like Rui was who was god awful in Washington and somewhat more stable in LA. Everyone or like 28 teams are in the cal and have to match the salaries and 4 or 5 are over the second apron and can only do 1 for 1 deals. The actual salary and age is an asset. 10 years ago not so much but in this NBA it is a reality. While we won’t go into tax we are over the cap as is everyone and it makes every team hamstrung in deals.