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Unpopular Opinion of How the offense should run...

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Re: Unpopular Opinion of How the offense should run... 

Post#21 » by Raps in 4 » Wed Nov 27, 2024 11:40 pm

Indeed wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:Scottie and Yak on the floor at the same time is tough to watch. Maybe things will improve when we get some shooters back in the lineup.


Elaborate on getting some shooters back?
Who are you replacing from the starting lineup for shooter outside of Mitchell?

We pretty much know the lack of spacing since last year with Barnes and Poeltl.


IQ. But having the option to slot in Dick and Kelly as needed helps too. Barnes won't just be playing with the starting lineup all game.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion of How the offense should run... 

Post#22 » by Badonkadonk » Thu Nov 28, 2024 1:05 am

Darko being forced to stagger Ja'Kobe and Battle to have one competent ATB shooter in the lineup at all times just highlights the impact of not having Dick + IQ.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion of How the offense should run... 

Post#23 » by deck » Thu Nov 28, 2024 1:06 am

I generally agree with the OP. I like Barnes running the break, and in some cases running sets from the PG position. But I don't think he should be our full time ball handler when the team is healthy. I would actually like to see more of Barnes as the pick and roll / pop guy. And I would like to see more sets where he just establishes himself inside.

I have no problem with him being an offensive hub as others have suggested, I am just dubious if him playing that role involves him starting from above the 3pt line dribbling. Barnes should be modeling his game as a more athletic Jokic.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion of How the offense should run... 

Post#24 » by Indeed » Thu Nov 28, 2024 3:25 am

Raps in 4 wrote:
Indeed wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:Scottie and Yak on the floor at the same time is tough to watch. Maybe things will improve when we get some shooters back in the lineup.


Elaborate on getting some shooters back?
Who are you replacing from the starting lineup for shooter outside of Mitchell?

We pretty much know the lack of spacing since last year with Barnes and Poeltl.


IQ. But having the option to slot in Dick and Kelly as needed helps too. Barnes won't just be playing with the starting lineup all game.


I guess having Olynky over Poeltl would help on the offense, as it seems (have not watched tonight's game yet, but the previous ones) Barnes and Poeltl aren't working.

Furthermore, I am unsure more shooters mean great offense than can compensate the defense (positive net rating), I just don't believe surrounding an inefficient player and forgo the defense would have better result, maybe just my perspective.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion of How the offense should run... 

Post#25 » by PushDaRock » Thu Nov 28, 2024 3:32 am

RJ's rim pressure is better than anyone else on this team by a long shot, it just all comes down to his decision making and how he reads the defensive help and knowing when to shoot or pass. I think Scottie and RJ can coexist though because their playmaking comes from different areas of the floor. Scottie is more mid post and passing out of doubles while RJ is a lot more drive and kick and making pocket passes to the big off rolls.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion of How the offense should run... 

Post#26 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Thu Nov 28, 2024 3:35 am

Can we get Don Nelson? Is it too late.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion of How the offense should run... 

Post#27 » by Indeed » Thu Nov 28, 2024 3:35 am

PushDaRock wrote:RJ's rim pressure is better than anyone else on this team by a long shot, it just all comes down to his decision making and how he reads the defensive help and knowing when to shoot or pass. I think Scottie and RJ can coexist though because their playmaking comes from different areas of the floor. Scottie is more mid post and passing out of doubles while RJ is a lot more drive and kick and making pocket passes to the big off rolls.


They can coexist if Barnes can space the floor better.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion of How the offense should run... 

Post#28 » by djsunyc » Thu Nov 28, 2024 1:53 pm

since scottie's return (4 games) ortg/drtg/net:

110.9 (17th) / 106.8 (6th) / +4.1 (13th)

new orleans game boosted the ortg and net but our defense has been good for 2+ weeks now.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion of How the offense should run... 

Post#29 » by ATLTimekeeper » Thu Nov 28, 2024 2:11 pm

Badonkadonk wrote:I was listening to Matt Bonner on the Raps show and I think it was him who talked about the unique potential of having Scottie as a primary offensive hub, but that having RJ on the opposite wing or elbow as a secondary hub when teams overload Scottie's options. We saw RJ carry P&Rs and deliver some impressive passes while Scottie was out, I think they just need time (along with Darko) to optimize primary and secondary actions in their sets.

The halfcourt also looks like a mess right now because the Raps two best ATB shooters are out (I'm gonna start including Battle with Gradey and IQ if he keeps it up), which really limits how many of these possessions can end.

But yeah you can't abandon Scottie in the Draymond/M.Gasol role, it's too big a weapon. They just need time to find their balance imo.


Bonner also has pointed out what a few of us have noticed for a few years now that Scottie holds the ball too much and kills the flow of offense. He is often caught weighing his options without recognizing mismatches that he has. The sooner the coaches get on him to clean this up the better, because he's not really a stepback threat (although it is a skill he's clearly working on).

At the moment I think the offense looks a little sticky because they are literally incorporating him as the primary option, which disrupts everyone's rhythm. Once his 3ball comes back online teams will have to load up on him and that's when we'll get RJ back to killing as the secondary hub.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion of How the offense should run... 

Post#30 » by Indeed » Thu Nov 28, 2024 2:39 pm

djsunyc wrote:since scottie's return (4 games) ortg/drtg/net:

110.9 (17th) / 106.8 (6th) / +4.1 (13th)

new orleans game boosted the ortg and net but our defense has been good for 2+ weeks now.


Last game was the reason on our DRtg
Below exclude the last game (unsure if it should set to last 4 games or last 3 games, maybe you can try play around)

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced?LastNGames=4&PerMode=Per100Possessions&dir=A&sort=DEF_RATING&DateTo=11%2F26%2F2024
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Re: Unpopular Opinion of How the offense should run... 

Post#31 » by MEDIC » Thu Nov 28, 2024 3:10 pm

Basketball_Jones wrote:Ultimately long term Scottie is the hub so might as well get him up to speed. RJ’s long term role will ultimately be predicated on who we draft. I just don’t think he’s your second best player ideally. Third, sure he’s on that path I think.


This.

RJ might look like a better on ball facilitator right now as Barmes shakes the rust off, but I think we have enough evidence to know 2 things at this point:

1. Scottie is at his best when he is on the ball & playing a transition game.

2. RJ is most efficient as an off ball scorer/ secondary facilitator.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion of How the offense should run... 

Post#32 » by MEDIC » Thu Nov 28, 2024 3:19 pm

Badonkadonk wrote:I was listening to Matt Bonner on the Raps show and I think it was him who talked about the unique potential of having Scottie as a primary offensive hub, but that having RJ on the opposite wing or elbow as a secondary hub when teams overload Scottie's options. We saw RJ carry P&Rs and deliver some impressive passes while Scottie was out, I think they just need time (along with Darko) to optimize primary and secondary actions in their sets.

The halfcourt also looks like a mess right now because the Raps two best ATB shooters are out (I'm gonna start including Battle with Gradey and IQ if he keeps it up), which really limits how many of these possessions can end.

But yeah you can't abandon Scottie in the Draymond/M.Gasol role, it's too big a weapon. They just need time to find their balance imo.


I noticed that last season. RJ wasn't getting as many assists as he is this season, but his numbers were still really good for a guy that worked mostly off the ball. He can actually make really quick decisions while attacking the rim. He is far from a black hole. There were two passes last night that impressed the hell out of me. Not many players could successfully make those passes.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion of How the offense should run... 

Post#33 » by lobosloboslobos » Thu Nov 28, 2024 3:38 pm

I think we all just need to see the intended starting lineup play 10 or 20 games together. then we'll at least having something solid to go on. right now it's always a plan B team out there.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion of How the offense should run... 

Post#34 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Thu Nov 28, 2024 3:43 pm

lobosloboslobos wrote:I think we all just need to see the intended starting lineup play 10 or 20 games together. then we'll at least having something solid to go on. right now it's always a plan B team out there.

I think if we didn't have 23M in dead weight, we wouldn't be worried about the starters so much.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion of How the offense should run... 

Post#35 » by djsunyc » Thu Nov 28, 2024 8:30 pm

Indeed wrote:
djsunyc wrote:since scottie's return (4 games) ortg/drtg/net:

110.9 (17th) / 106.8 (6th) / +4.1 (13th)

new orleans game boosted the ortg and net but our defense has been good for 2+ weeks now.


Last game was the reason on our DRtg
Below exclude the last game (unsure if it should set to last 4 games or last 3 games, maybe you can try play around)

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced?LastNGames=4&PerMode=Per100Possessions&dir=A&sort=DEF_RATING&DateTo=11%2F26%2F2024

our drtg is 7th best over the last 8 games.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion of How the offense should run... 

Post#36 » by youngRAPZ » Fri Nov 29, 2024 10:47 pm

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:
lobosloboslobos wrote:I think we all just need to see the intended starting lineup play 10 or 20 games together. then we'll at least having something solid to go on. right now it's always a plan B team out there.

I think if we didn't have 23M in dead weight, we wouldn't be worried about the starters so much.

What are you blabbering on about now :crazy:

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