The 3-2-1 Draft (90s to now) - Discussion

[Larry_Russell]

Not sure why you didn't go with Chris Paul over Darius Garland.

Anyhow I already drafted McKie

I didnt want to lose another all defense.

I wanted herb jones to have a terror pair of defenders.

Also, I dont like the fit of Paul and Jokic personally.

Ok that's a valid approach I guess, but personally it's looks like kind of a symbol for a case of trying to avoid too much players that fall under the draft restrictions, to the point where you actually just using too much FGA on lesser players

exactly. I wanted to save the restrictions

I wanted do try something different, I wanted a low FGA 3D wing player (I had Christie and Jones as my top 2 targets, both are all defense fillers)

If Paul wasnt All defense, I would have taken him for certain.

Although, again, I think I prefer Garland over Paul in a replicated 2023 Denver team

[Snakebites]

Kyle Anderson is actually Roddy's by low. As well as Horry.

hehe true

Horry is my favorite back up pf ( sometimes starter ) but if he's not available and I need to save fga then Kyle is pretty good option imo. Good defender and shoots well from three and his advanced stats are decent

UP roddy

[durantbird]

In

Dr P has Gortat

[Snakebites]

I didnt want to lose another all defense.

I wanted herb jones to have a terror pair of defenders.

Also, I dont like the fit of Paul and Jokic personally.

Ok that's a valid approach I guess, but personally it's looks like kind of a symbol for a case of trying to avoid too much players that fall under the draft restrictions, to the point where you actually just using too much FGA on lesser players

exactly. I wanted to save the restrictions

I wanted do try something different, I wanted a low FGA 3D wing player (I had Christie and Jones as my top 2 targets, both are all defense fillers)

If Paul wasnt All defense, I would have taken him for certain.

Although, again, I think I prefer Garland over Paul in a replicated 2023 Denver team

I totally get saving the restrictions. Straight up not using them at all feels a lot harder to justify IMO. I get why it happened here, but it's still a less than ideal situation. I looked at a guy like Lauri Markkanen for instance, but realized that if I took him I wouldn't really have enough FGA left to make good use of the last All NBA slot.

That's not a criticism of the team really, I do think the pieces fit around Jokic pretty well. I do think it may have been worth it to sacrifice peak AK to replace Garland with an All NBA guard who doesn't have a ring or all defense (Damian Lillard and Jalen Brunson come to mind). But that's just me. 2004 AK does have All-NBA impact without an All NBA nod.

[Larry_Russell]

Ok that's a valid approach I guess, but personally it's looks like kind of a symbol for a case of trying to avoid too much players that fall under the draft restrictions, to the point where you actually just using too much FGA on lesser players

exactly. I wanted to save the restrictions

I wanted do try something different, I wanted a low FGA 3D wing player (I had Christie and Jones as my top 2 targets, both are all defense fillers)

If Paul wasnt All defense, I would have taken him for certain.

Although, again, I think I prefer Garland over Paul in a replicated 2023 Denver team

I totally get saving the restrictions. Straight up not using them at all feels a lot harder to justify IMO. I get why it happened here, but it's still a less than ideal situation. I looked at a guy like Lauri Markkanen for instance, but realized that if I took him I wouldn't really have enough FGA left to make good use of the last All NBA slot.

That's not a criticism of the team really, I do think the pieces fit around Jokic pretty well. I do think it may have been worth it to sacrifice peak AK to replace Garland with an All NBA guard who doesn't have a ring or all defense (Damian Lillard and Jalen Brunson come to mind). But that's just me. 2004 AK does have All-NBA impact without an All NBA nod.

I did really debate those 2 guys, but I really feared an FGA restriction on the bench. I would have preferred Dame and in hindsight probably could have made him work with a weaker bench....but I played the numbers game at that point.

Garland fit, he was cheap and preserved an all defense spot. In hindsight, yes 100% could have taken an ALL NBA guy there, but at the time I thought I might get sniped on Jones or Christie and would have been left spending more money or an all nba spot on starting SF an/or scraping to build a viable bench.

I should have waiting till the final round to draft my PG would have been the smartest thing. But 20/20 and all.

[Snakebites]

exactly. I wanted to save the restrictions

I wanted do try something different, I wanted a low FGA 3D wing player (I had Christie and Jones as my top 2 targets, both are all defense fillers)

If Paul wasnt All defense, I would have taken him for certain.

Although, again, I think I prefer Garland over Paul in a replicated 2023 Denver team

I totally get saving the restrictions. Straight up not using them at all feels a lot harder to justify IMO. I get why it happened here, but it's still a less than ideal situation. I looked at a guy like Lauri Markkanen for instance, but realized that if I took him I wouldn't really have enough FGA left to make good use of the last All NBA slot.

That's not a criticism of the team really, I do think the pieces fit around Jokic pretty well. I do think it may have been worth it to sacrifice peak AK to replace Garland with an All NBA guard who doesn't have a ring or all defense (Damian Lillard and Jalen Brunson come to mind). But that's just me. 2004 AK does have All-NBA impact without an All NBA nod.

I did really debate those 2 guys, but I really feared an FGA restriction on the bench. I would have preferred Dame and in hindsight probably could have made him work with a weaker bench....but I played the numbers game at that point.

Garland fit, he was cheap and preserved an all defense spot. In hindsight, yes 100% could have taken an ALL NBA guy there, but at the time I thought I might get sniped on Jones or Christie and would have been left spending more money or an all nba spot on starting SF an/or scraping to build a viable bench.

I should have waiting till the final round to draft my PG would have been the smartest thing. But 20/20 and all.

If you downgraded AK to 2003 you could have afforded a few different peak Dame seasons with the exact same supporting roster you ended up with. Or to 2005 or 2006 AK and you could have had 2023 Brunson. Or all the way down to 2007 AK and gotten 2024 Jalen.

The bottom line is you decided it wasn't worth it to downgrade AK. I get it. I grapple with the same question every time I have AK47.

And that's all fine. If I had it all to do again I probably would have gone the route Roddy did and snagged Terry Porter in round one. he easily has the best team in this game, though I dunno if I'd have landed Reggie. As is I have a team I "like" but don't "love", and it's the result of my choices.

We all look back and say "I should have done x when instead I did y". It's the nature of these games.

[Snakebites]

An interesting overall observation:

As a fun thought experiment I decided to look what the best possible teams were among undrafted players, and I noticed something very interesting:

There are plenty of great All NBA guys left of all stripes. Guys with no rings, guys with and without all defense, and of course guys with rings (both with and without all defense). There's no shortage of desirable players that fit every distinction you can think of, and there are good All NBA guys left at every position.

What there isn't enough of? Quality role players with neither rings nor All-Defense. Those are completely and utterly picked over.

I think we ALL approached this draft wrong. Except roddy. And even he might have been able to push the envelope even further.

[Dr Positivity]

I think if I took Shaq over Robinson I'd have had better chance with AI but it wasn't my original plan since I didn't want to play him and Nash, so I decided not to go with it.

[Snakebites]

I think if I took Shaq over Robinson I'd have had better chance with AI but it wasn't my original plan since I didn't want to play him and Nash, so I decided not to go with it.

Which is why I don't love AI.

I don't really like the fit of Magic/Hill/Barkley but I think for this draft it was a great approach and the AI will probably love it. Until you went with Millsap I thought your target was KG.

[Fadeaway_J]

An interesting overall observation:

As a fun thought experiment I decided to look what the best possible teams were among undrafted players, and I noticed something very interesting:

There are plenty of great All NBA guys left of all stripes. Guys with no rings, guys with and without all defense, and of course guys with rings (both with and without all defense). There's no shortage of desirable players that fit every distinction you can think of, and there are good All NBA guys left at every position.

What there isn't enough of? Quality role players with neither rings nor All-Defense. Those are completely and utterly picked over.

I think we ALL approached this draft wrong. Except roddy. And even he might have been able to push the envelope even further.

I wouldn't have changed anything about my approach. I built pretty much exactly the team I set out to, although it would probably work better with traditional voting.

[durantbird]

An interesting overall observation:

As a fun thought experiment I decided to look what the best possible teams were among undrafted players, and I noticed something very interesting:

There are plenty of great All NBA guys left of all stripes. Guys with no rings, guys with and without all defense, and of course guys with rings (both with and without all defense). There's no shortage of desirable players that fit every distinction you can think of, and there are good All NBA guys left at every position.

What there isn't enough of? Quality role players with neither rings nor All-Defense. Those are completely and utterly picked over.

I think we ALL approached this draft wrong. Except roddy. And even he might have been able to push the envelope even further.

I knew exactly the limitations of the pool, but still didn't think prioritizing better 3 and D guys was the best approach in my view. Most of the regular cheap guys are anyhow champions like Bowen Battier Anunoby Tucker Ariza. My general thought process is that it's better to just get the strongest top end talent I can get instead of getting a Mikal or McDaniels over Batum. But what I would've done differently is maybe taking Barkley over MJ because of some unexpected falls. Porter was very high on my list for second round but I wouldn't have drafted him first.

[Snakebites]

An interesting overall observation:

As a fun thought experiment I decided to look what the best possible teams were among undrafted players, and I noticed something very interesting:

There are plenty of great All NBA guys left of all stripes. Guys with no rings, guys with and without all defense, and of course guys with rings (both with and without all defense). There's no shortage of desirable players that fit every distinction you can think of, and there are good All NBA guys left at every position.

What there isn't enough of? Quality role players with neither rings nor All-Defense. Those are completely and utterly picked over.

I think we ALL approached this draft wrong. Except roddy. And even he might have been able to push the envelope even further.

I knew exactly the limitations of the pool, but still didn't think prioritizing better 3 and D guys was the best approach in my view. Most of the regular cheap guys are anyhow champions like Bowen Battier Anunoby Tucker Ariza. My general thought process is that it's better to just get the strongest top end talent I can get instead of getting a Mikal or McDaniels over Batum. But what I would've done differently is maybe taking Barkley over MJ because of some unexpected falls. Porter was very high on my list for second round but I wouldn't have drafted him first.

I’d agree if the All NBA level guys remaining were guys like Jayson Tatum and Anthony Davis.

Thats not the case.

[durantbird]

An interesting overall observation:

As a fun thought experiment I decided to look what the best possible teams were among undrafted players, and I noticed something very interesting:

There are plenty of great All NBA guys left of all stripes. Guys with no rings, guys with and without all defense, and of course guys with rings (both with and without all defense). There's no shortage of desirable players that fit every distinction you can think of, and there are good All NBA guys left at every position.

What there isn't enough of? Quality role players with neither rings nor All-Defense. Those are completely and utterly picked over.

I think we ALL approached this draft wrong. Except roddy. And even he might have been able to push the envelope even further.

I knew exactly the limitations of the pool, but still didn't think prioritizing better 3 and D guys was the best approach in my view. Most of the regular cheap guys are anyhow champions like Bowen Battier Anunoby Tucker Ariza. My general thought process is that it's better to just get the strongest top end talent I can get instead of getting a Mikal or McDaniels over Batum. But what I would've done differently is maybe taking Barkley over MJ because of some unexpected falls. Porter was very high on my list for second round but I wouldn't have drafted him first.

I’d agree if the All NBA level guys remaining were guys like Jayson Tatum and Anthony Davis.

Thats not the case.

You mean not champions as well? Because I don't see it. Unless you are talking about champions, in that case I already said I would've retrospectively taken Barkley first.

And I admitted that in the midst of round 2 when I saw CP3 falling.

[Snakebites]

I knew exactly the limitations of the pool, but still didn't think prioritizing better 3 and D guys was the best approach in my view. Most of the regular cheap guys are anyhow champions like Bowen Battier Anunoby Tucker Ariza. My general thought process is that it's better to just get the strongest top end talent I can get instead of getting a Mikal or McDaniels over Batum. But what I would've done differently is maybe taking Barkley over MJ because of some unexpected falls. Porter was very high on my list for second round but I wouldn't have drafted him first.

I’d agree if the All NBA level guys remaining were guys like Jayson Tatum and Anthony Davis.

Thats not the case.

You mean not champions as well? Because I don't see it. Unless you are talking about champions, in that case I already said I would've retrospectively taken Barkley first.

And I admitted that in the midst of round 2 when I saw CP3 falling.

To clarify what I’m saying, I’m not saying I’d have gone all in on non all NBA guys.

I’d have probably taken ONE non-champion in the first 4 rounds in retrospect.

[Fadeaway_J]

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Please complete your roster pages by 7 PM EST tomorrow.

[DCasey91]

I went with more or less what I'm hoping the AI mechanics are after. Don't know the systematic approach it will take or the programming involved but AI loves modern stuff.

Coming from Chess it chooses best dynamics over basically anything else as soon as a possible.

A lot of the time it can be nonsensical or outright illogical to our Ape brains but AI is way more smarter than us and has been for ages when delivering best objectives/tasks.

I hazard it will be the same here regardless of name of player. Like ChatGPT is already clocking at 155++ IQ which is so far beyond a normal person's raw intelligence.

Reggie Miller for example I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up with a really really high net difference. Size + efficient god =

That's why I picked Curry first and went from there. Draft wasn't perfect as I misread the slot selection but with the team's shooting % from 2p/3p the FT% , assist% steal % it should be alright.

[Fadeaway_J]

I'm going to ask Larry to handle the simulations for me as the AI thing is his idea. I figure it will have to be tomorrow since today is Thanksgiving in the US.

[Fadeaway_J]

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Play-In Game: Stan vs. DCasey91

[wackbone]

I really like my team but going against Snake's presumptive favorite in Round 1 will be a true test of my strategy. Both of our teams waited to grab our 1 Champ until late, which I think was crucial here. We shall see how it goes!

[Larry_Russell]

I will get to posting tk AI in a bit.


Busy right now.