PG: Knicks vs. Mavericks (They Left Their Offense in Denver)

[HEZI]

Mikal is soft. I don’t remember him being this soft in Phoenix, not sure what happened to him since, but he’s soft. There’s no grit to his game, all finesse, doesn’t even get after it defensively, can’t get around a screen, can’t stay in front of his man, avoids contact on both ends. I’m not sure how KAT got that label but when you think of soft the Mikal Bridges we are seeing is that. He is like the complete opposite of OG

This is sadly true. Man avoids contact at all costs. Works for his step back mid-ranges, but nothing else is helped by his softness.

Screeners treat him like a baby wipe and take him out on the regular.

Look at Deuce fight over screens and then look at Mikal. He's got no fire in him.

It's a shame. This team requires gritty players and so far Mikal is anything but that.

He should average 2 or more trips to the FT stripe minimum and he goes weeks without taking a FT. This is such a crazy non-stat it defies all logic.

It’s concerning because this is starting to look like another Bargnani type of mistake only worse considering we gave up more. But he’s just as soft as Bargnani was

[Clyde_Style]

Mikal is soft. I don’t remember him being this soft in Phoenix, not sure what happened to him since, but he’s soft. There’s no grit to his game, all finesse, doesn’t even get after it defensively, can’t get around a screen, can’t stay in front of his man, avoids contact on both ends. I’m not sure how KAT got that label but when you think of soft the Mikal Bridges we are seeing is that. He is like the complete opposite of OG

This is sadly true. Man avoids contact at all costs. Works for his step back mid-ranges, but nothing else is helped by his softness.

Screeners treat him like a baby wipe and take him out on the regular.

Look at Deuce fight over screens and then look at Mikal. He's got no fire in him.

It's a shame. This team requires gritty players and so far Mikal is anything but that.

He should average 2 or more trips to the FT stripe minimum and he goes weeks without taking a FT. This is such a crazy non-stat it defies all logic.

It’s concerning because this is starting to look like another Bargnani type of mistake only worse considering we gave up more. But he’s just as soft as Bargnani was

I don't think he'll ever be as bad as that, but based on his current level of play he's a bench player and that would still be a disastrous return on the trade.

[prophet_of_rage]

The Mavs didnt lose any main player. We lost 3 and brought in two main players. And we brought in several non main players, BIG difference JayT...This isnt about my opinion- its about the fact. That core Mav team is the same. Luka and Gad had a day off. Thats not our situation...

on edit: they lost a main bench player in Derrick but as you can see Naji easily replaces him...

The Mavs were down 2 starters last night, there's no sanitizing this loss. The lineup we played yesterday has played more games together than that rag tag lineup the Mavs were using, that was only the 6th game Naji has started this year, and only the 42nd time he's started in his career.

the short handed new knicks lost to the defending western conference champs. period.

The New Yorks Knicks lost by 15 to the Luka-less Mavs. Period.

Don't make excuses it juat is what it is. The short handed Knicks beat the former NBA champion Nuggets. It isn't about talent deficit.

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[Iron Mantis]

Mikal is soft. I don’t remember him being this soft in Phoenix, not sure what happened to him since, but he’s soft. There’s no grit to his game, all finesse, doesn’t even get after it defensively, can’t get around a screen, can’t stay in front of his man, avoids contact on both ends. I’m not sure how KAT got that label but when you think of soft the Mikal Bridges we are seeing is that. He is like the complete opposite of OG

This is sadly true. Man avoids contact at all costs. Works for his step back mid-ranges, but nothing else is helped by his softness.

Screeners treat him like a baby wipe and take him out on the regular.

Look at Deuce fight over screens and then look at Mikal. He's got no fire in him.

It's a shame. This team requires gritty players and so far Mikal is anything but that.

He should average 2 or more trips to the FT stripe minimum and he goes weeks without taking a FT. This is such a crazy non-stat it defies all logic.

Maybe subconsciously he's trying to protect his iron man streak at all costs.

Looking for contact on drives and fighting over screens puts that at risk.

[Buttah304]

Mikal fading away to avoid the paint at all costs

[Iron Mantis]

The Mavs were down 2 starters last night, there's no sanitizing this loss. The lineup we played yesterday has played more games together than that rag tag lineup the Mavs were using, that was only the 6th game Naji has started this year, and only the 42nd time he's started in his career.

the short handed new knicks lost to the defending western conference champs. period.

The New Yorks Knicks lost by 15 to the Luka-less Mavs. Period.

Don't make excuses it juat is what it is. The short handed Knicks beat the former NBA champion Nuggets. It isn't about talent deficit.

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No excusing this loss. I agree and think we should have won with or without our full lineup because this Knicks team has elite offensive ability.....but Thibs cannot or will not react/adjust on the fly and refuses to use the bench. First quarter started a chain reaction that lost us the game.

Nevertheless, that Mavs team is no walk in the park with or without Luka.

The Mavs just beat the Thunder at home without Luka while Klay went 1-11 FG and posted a -5. Mavs without Luka and another Klay stinker (0-8 FG) beat the Nuggets in Denver and had a 20pt lead at the half. Their overall pedigree is real, and Kidd has them playing some inspired defense this season, so I'm not too bummed about this loss....but I still think we should have won.

[ctuk]

Right now we have a right to begin to question if Thibs could be part of the problem too.

The hope is we just need to make adjustments and the gelling process is the biggest issue.

The other part of the equation is Sims is a big fat zero out there and we need Achiuwa/Robinson out there badly.

Thibs is running out of time though almost 20 games in before you really start to wonder if he is the best fit for the current make up for the team.

Do we need more of a Kidd, Celts coach, Houston coach, even Jordi Fernandez type coach?

We could also look at it this way....

Over next 9 games the schedule significantly softens up.


Even with a team still finding its identity we should (in theory) go something like 6-3 or 7-2 over next 9.

@KnicksMuse
Knicks Next 9 Games:

@ CHA (6-12)
vs NOP (4-14)
vs ORL (13-7)
vs CHA (6-12)
vs DET (8-11)
@ TOR (4-14)
@ MIN (8-9)
@ NOP (4-14)
vs TOR (4-14)

After that we will be basically a good 30 games into the season.

If we are still inconsistent after being 30 games in when the schedule gets more challenging again then at that point you are seriously going to have to question if Thibs is the best fit for the squad at that point.

I love Thibs, truly do, his hard-nosed, tough guy defensive mentality. But it's getting clearer to me that he's better suited as a defensive coordinator than a HC, especially in today's game.

He seems to have too much trouble adjusting offensively, and his refusal to expand the rotation is simply unacceptable. If a miracle were to happen and we made it through the season and playoffs without too many injuries on the main guys, we would be way too exhausted physically and mentally in the end anyway to win it all.

But the issue is defense tho. And that's his **** calling card. He's only made minor adjustments to his scheme aka blitzing ball handlers with the corner defender. It is wild to me that a defensive guru needs a 20 game sample size to even reconsider making changes. Kat has never been good at drop or in isolation defense at the perimeter. Brunson has never been able to navigate screens. We have almost 10 years of this data on both guys

Kat can play great help defense especially when you shrink the floor. Brunson is one of the best in the league at taking charges. The majority of those charges are in or near the paint. So again shrinking the floor helps maximize both guys talents. We need to pre switch and pre rotate every time the ball handler calls for kat or brunson's man to set a screen. We need to live with guys posting Brunson up from time to time. He's much more likely to take a charge when there is less space to cover.

We know for a fact JB will not be able to navigate screens or keep guys in front of him on the perimeter. Rockets, nuggets and Celtics all do this to hide their weakest defenders in KP, sengun, fvv, Jokic, Murray etc. The Cavs have 3 weak defenders in their starting lineup and they employ this as well. Look at the difference between the Cavs of last year and this year and see how much difference solid coaching can make. Thibs is a floor raiser and at this point doesn't seem like the right fit with this group. Kinda like the Mark Jackson/Steve Kerr situation.

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[thebuzzardman]

Mikal is soft. I don’t remember him being this soft in Phoenix, not sure what happened to him since, but he’s soft. There’s no grit to his game, all finesse, doesn’t even get after it defensively, can’t get around a screen, can’t stay in front of his man, avoids contact on both ends. I’m not sure how KAT got that label but when you think of soft the Mikal Bridges we are seeing is that. He is like the complete opposite of OG

This is sadly true. Man avoids contact at all costs. Works for his step back mid-ranges, but nothing else is helped by his softness.

Screeners treat him like a baby wipe and take him out on the regular.

Look at Deuce fight over screens and then look at Mikal. He's got no fire in him.

It's a shame. This team requires gritty players and so far Mikal is anything but that.

He should average 2 or more trips to the FT stripe minimum and he goes weeks without taking a FT. This is such a crazy non-stat it defies all logic.

It’s concerning because this is starting to look like another Bargnani type of mistake only worse considering we gave up more. But he’s just as soft as Bargnani was

Bridgiani

[HEZI]

Right now we have a right to begin to question if Thibs could be part of the problem too.

The hope is we just need to make adjustments and the gelling process is the biggest issue.

The other part of the equation is Sims is a big fat zero out there and we need Achiuwa/Robinson out there badly.

Thibs is running out of time though almost 20 games in before you really start to wonder if he is the best fit for the current make up for the team.

Do we need more of a Kidd, Celts coach, Houston coach, even Jordi Fernandez type coach?

We could also look at it this way....

Over next 9 games the schedule significantly softens up.


Even with a team still finding its identity we should (in theory) go something like 6-3 or 7-2 over next 9.

@KnicksMuse
Knicks Next 9 Games:

@ CHA (6-12)
vs NOP (4-14)
vs ORL (13-7)
vs CHA (6-12)
vs DET (8-11)
@ TOR (4-14)
@ MIN (8-9)
@ NOP (4-14)
vs TOR (4-14)

After that we will be basically a good 30 games into the season.

If we are still inconsistent after being 30 games in when the schedule gets more challenging again then at that point you are seriously going to have to question if Thibs is the best fit for the squad at that point.

I love Thibs, truly do, his hard-nosed, tough guy defensive mentality. But it's getting clearer to me that he's better suited as a defensive coordinator than a HC, especially in today's game.

He seems to have too much trouble adjusting offensively, and his refusal to expand the rotation is simply unacceptable. If a miracle were to happen and we made it through the season and playoffs without too many injuries on the main guys, we would be way too exhausted physically and mentally in the end anyway to win it all.

But the issue is defense tho. And that's his **** calling card. He's only made minor adjustments to his scheme aka blitzing ball handlers with the corner defender. It is wild to me that a defensive guru needs a 20 game sample size to even reconsider making changes. Kat has never been good at drop or in isolation defense at the perimeter. Brunson has never been able to navigate screens. We have almost 10 years of this data on both guys

Kat can play great help defense especially when you shrink the floor. Brunson is one of the best in the league at taking charges. The majority of those charges are in or near the paint. So again shrinking the floor helps maximize both guys talents. We need to pre switch and pre rotate every time the ball handler calls for kat or brunson's man to set a screen. We need to live with guys posting Brunson up from time to time. He's much more likely to take a charge when there is less space to cover.

We know for a fact JB will not be able to navigate screens or keep guys in front of him on the perimeter. Rockets, nuggets and Celtics all do this to hide their weakest defenders in KP, sengun, fvv, Jokic, Murray etc. The Cavs have 3 weak defenders in their starting lineup and they employ this as well. Look at the difference between the Cavs of last year and this year and see how much difference solid coaching can make. Thibs is a floor raiser and at this point doesn't seem like the right fit with this group. Kinda like the Mark Jackson/Steve Kerr situation.

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We had one of the best defensive ratings a year ago and have been much better defensively over the last few years under Thibs than this year. You think Thibs just forgot how to coach defense? Maybe it’s just the current group sucks playing defense. You can switch all you want but when individual defense still sucks it won’t fix the problem. Guys are allowing the opponent to walk into the lane without any resistance. One pump fake and they over commit, one hesi dribble and they get left behind, they constantly get stuck ball watching and lose their assignment, etc. There is also zero rim protection so with no rim protection and bad perimeter defense we see the struggles.

These guys are so bad at individual defense that they might as well just play zone and get picked apart that way

[stuporman]

Didn't watch. Thibs got totally outcoached again didn't he?

Yes, because coaching is the reason the Knicks shot 26%fg and 19%3pt in the first half, he should just coach harder that lazy bum.

Part of coaching is adapting when starters don't have it.

Adapting to what? You think the backups were going to dig the Knicks out of a 20 point second half hole?

[thebuzzardman]

Yes, because coaching is the reason the Knicks shot 26%fg and 19%3pt in the first half, he should just coach harder that lazy bum.

Part of coaching is adapting when starters don't have it.

Adapting to what? You think the backups were going to dig the Knicks out of a 20 point second half hole?

Yes

[stuporman]

The best 'coaching' criticism of Thibs would be the amount of mins he's played the starters on the road trip. If that's how tired they looked playing the 4th game in 7 nights on both ends of the court it doesn't bode well for the 5th game in 9th day finale of the road trip. It's a matinée no less with about a 40hr turn around even against the mediocre Hornets this can take a successful 3-2 western road trip and turn it into a frustrating 2-3 one.

[MrDollarBills]

Was I too harsh Thibs last night?

I like the guy, but i feel like he's gonna get someone injured at this rate. He's playing guys til they're running on fumes. It makes no sense.

[8516knicks]

that 4th quarter difference (drop-off) posted a few pages back really told the story. TIRED.

[WaltFrazier]

Mikal is soft. I don’t remember him being this soft in Phoenix, not sure what happened to him since, but he’s soft. There’s no grit to his game, all finesse, doesn’t even get after it defensively, can’t get around a screen, can’t stay in front of his man, avoids contact on both ends. I’m not sure how KAT got that label but when you think of soft the Mikal Bridges we are seeing is that. He is like the complete opposite of OG

This is sadly true. Man avoids contact at all costs. Works for his step back mid-ranges, but nothing else is helped by his softness.

Screeners treat him like a baby wipe and take him out on the regular.

Look at Deuce fight over screens and then look at Mikal. He's got no fire in him.

It's a shame. This team requires gritty players and so far Mikal is anything but that.

He should average 2 or more trips to the FT stripe minimum and he goes weeks without taking a FT. This is such a crazy non-stat it defies all logic.

It’s concerning because this is starting to look like another Bargnani type of mistake only worse considering we gave up more. But he’s just as soft as Bargnani was

I remember discussions about who was the best defensive wing in the NBA, Raptors OG or Suns Bridges. Mikal really fell off

[Jalen Bluntson]

I missed this one. On to the next one. Cheers.

[ctuk]

I love Thibs, truly do, his hard-nosed, tough guy defensive mentality. But it's getting clearer to me that he's better suited as a defensive coordinator than a HC, especially in today's game.

He seems to have too much trouble adjusting offensively, and his refusal to expand the rotation is simply unacceptable. If a miracle were to happen and we made it through the season and playoffs without too many injuries on the main guys, we would be way too exhausted physically and mentally in the end anyway to win it all.

But the issue is defense tho. And that's his **** calling card. He's only made minor adjustments to his scheme aka blitzing ball handlers with the corner defender. It is wild to me that a defensive guru needs a 20 game sample size to even reconsider making changes. Kat has never been good at drop or in isolation defense at the perimeter. Brunson has never been able to navigate screens. We have almost 10 years of this data on both guys

Kat can play great help defense especially when you shrink the floor. Brunson is one of the best in the league at taking charges. The majority of those charges are in or near the paint. So again shrinking the floor helps maximize both guys talents. We need to pre switch and pre rotate every time the ball handler calls for kat or brunson's man to set a screen. We need to live with guys posting Brunson up from time to time. He's much more likely to take a charge when there is less space to cover.

We know for a fact JB will not be able to navigate screens or keep guys in front of him on the perimeter. Rockets, nuggets and Celtics all do this to hide their weakest defenders in KP, sengun, fvv, Jokic, Murray etc. The Cavs have 3 weak defenders in their starting lineup and they employ this as well. Look at the difference between the Cavs of last year and this year and see how much difference solid coaching can make. Thibs is a floor raiser and at this point doesn't seem like the right fit with this group. Kinda like the Mark Jackson/Steve Kerr situation.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using RealGM mobile app

We had one of the best defensive ratings a year ago and have been much better defensively over the last few years under Thibs than this year. You think Thibs just forgot how to coach defense? Maybe it’s just the current group sucks playing defense. You can switch all you want but when individual defense still sucks it won’t fix the problem. Guys are allowing the opponent to walk into the lane without any resistance. One pump fake and they over commit, one hesi dribble and they get left behind, they constantly get stuck ball watching and lose their assignment, etc. There is also zero rim protection so with no rim protection and bad perimeter defense we see the struggles.

These guys are so bad at individual defense that they might as well just play zone and get picked apart that way

I'm just saying we won't know till we try. He has different personnel this year compared to last year. So obviously you gotta adjust your scheme to maximize the players you have now. You make a bunch of valid points and I'm not disagreeing with you in general. Effort, intensity, attention to detail and players returning will all help. At the same time I don't believe he's maximizing the current available guys and elevating them to their full potential defensively.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using RealGM mobile app

[NiceLikeChrist]

Right now we have a right to begin to question if Thibs could be part of the problem too.

The hope is we just need to make adjustments and the gelling process is the biggest issue.

The other part of the equation is Sims is a big fat zero out there and we need Achiuwa/Robinson out there badly.

Thibs is running out of time though almost 20 games in before you really start to wonder if he is the best fit for the current make up for the team.

Do we need more of a Kidd, Celts coach, Houston coach, even Jordi Fernandez type coach?

We could also look at it this way....

Over next 9 games the schedule significantly softens up.


Even with a team still finding its identity we should (in theory) go something like 6-3 or 7-2 over next 9.

@KnicksMuse
Knicks Next 9 Games:

@ CHA (6-12)
vs NOP (4-14)
vs ORL (13-7)
vs CHA (6-12)
vs DET (8-11)
@ TOR (4-14)
@ MIN (8-9)
@ NOP (4-14)
vs TOR (4-14)

After that we will be basically a good 30 games into the season.

If we are still inconsistent after being 30 games in when the schedule gets more challenging again then at that point you are seriously going to have to question if Thibs is the best fit for the squad at that point.

There isn’t a single game out of these that shouldn’t be a 10+ point victory except Orlando. If we go worse than 8-1 in this run then thibs needs to go before the ball drops

[Clyde_Style]

Part of coaching is adapting when starters don't have it.

Adapting to what? You think the backups were going to dig the Knicks out of a 20 point second half hole?

Yes

[NiceLikeChrist]

Yes, because coaching is the reason the Knicks shot 26%fg and 19%3pt in the first half, he should just coach harder that lazy bum.

Part of coaching is adapting when starters don't have it.

Adapting to what? You think the backups were going to dig the Knicks out of a 20 point second half hole?

The point is that you should be recognizing when your starters don’t have it early and start working the brain muscles to figure out something else before you get in a 20 point hole

I don’t know about thibs but once kyrie walked to the rim unbothered, missed a floater, got his own rebound, and put up another lazy uncontested floater to push the score to 7-20 that would’ve been all I needed to see. Timeout. Pac in, huk in bare minimum. These guys on the floor don’t have it tonight. The rookies weren’t gonna play worse than the starters. Might have outplayed them. There have been many many games where this is the case around the league.

Thibs won’t even adjust to see if it’s one of those nights.