At what point does 76ers hole become too big?

[Decipher]

Have a look at the lineup my Nets played when beating GSW

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401704850

No size at all and both Cams went down during the game so they had no right to be competitive BUT they’re well coached, play with spirit and nobodies keep stepping up

Sixers should be looking at EVERYONE because there’s something seriously wrong in that organisation as a couple of injuries isn’t an excuse for becoming the worst team in the NBA

[ITYSL]

Too big for what?

Too big for getting to the playin? Too big to get out of the playing? Too big to get out of the first round?

At this stage I think the Sixers' ceiling is the 1st round. Maybe the 2nd if they match up against a team with injuries in the 1st round AND they are healthy, a situation that is highly unlikely imo

[cgf]

But that's with a number of those teams ahead of them starting poorly because they had to develop the chemistry that Philly still needs to start doing with its big 3. So the rate at which the teams they need to catch to avoid a first round massacre, should be stacking wins at faster rates as the season progresses.

That's why even if Embiid, Maxey, and George gave you 60 games together from here on out and clicked ASAFP; I still think you'd end up in the play-in, battling for the honor of a first-round ass-whooping.

See I think Morey is thinking the same thing that the Lakers FO has basically been thinking since they partnered AD & Lebron: as long as their stars get to the playoffs healthy they feel they can beat anybody. That's probably the reason that the Lakers have run through as many coaches as they have because Jeanie and her lapdogs expectations are out of whack. The Clippers have basically been operating the same way which is why they're still rolling with Kawhi. I'm sure Philly ownership and management have been telling themselves that the reason for their playoff failures is only because Embiid has never entered or gotten through the playoffs healthy.

Nah, man, they're just making the very reasonable and rational calculation that there aren't many ways to win a title, that it takes years and lots of luck to get your team one of those ways, and that you should keep trying when you have those chances, even if they're only like 10% or 15% or whatever. That means you're mostly going to lose your gamble (85-90% of the time) but it's not unreasonable to think it's giving you a better chance than some other course of action.

Also CGF I'm really not optimistic for this season for the Sixers but seems like you're going to weird lengths to defend the point that the Sixers are completely boned even if things turn around tomorrow. Like here you're assuming the Pacers are a sleeping giant that's vastly underachieiving at .500, or that a mediocre Heat team is also about to take off when they seem like about a .500 team. Sixers just need to get to the 6th seed to avoid what you keep calling a pounding, and that means beating out MIA and IND. You're also assuming the Cavs are suddenly an instant buzzsaw in any PO series, even after how the same exact team played last PO. I'd obviously want to avoid them but using phrases like ass-whooping and curb-stomping for anyone who faces that team might be an indication you want to paint thinks a little rougher than they are.

I think they get stomped by Boston, New York, or Cleveland. So they'd need to crack the top 5, but even if we're talking about the top 6, why wouldn't I assume that Indiana would be better than Philly again? They were better than Philly last year, better regular season record and a much tougher playoff opponent, and they're younger. And what has Philly proven that Miami hasn't?

[Wolfgang630]

It already is

[tamaraw08]

3-14 at the moment, so 17 games gone, 65 remaining.

Let's say they only get the main guys together for 50 games the rest of the season, and in the remaining 15 games, they go 5-10 (I'm being pessimistic about it to stretch how much of a hole they could be in), so 8-24 in those 32 games.

If they win the other 50 games at a 50 win pace, that would get them to 38 wins, which is a .463 win percentage.

Currently, .463 win percentage would be 9th and would have them in the play-in. I'm assuming as long as they can make the play-in, they are content, so I suppose anything that projects them around 38+ wins they would be content to stomach.

And then get bounced by either Boston or Cleveland in the first round, what's the point?

This is a new team that need the regular season to build chemistry and cohesion, and stay healthy and I think they are slowly running out of time with no timetable for Paul George and Embiid returning. I think it might be better to just shut it down and let Embiid's body heal and then make one last run next year. Cut/dumb/trade guys like Kyle Lowry, Reggie Jackson, Eric Gordon and Andre Drummond and sign some young legs and see if there's some diamond in the rough.

What's the point is a good question, and they might decide it's not worth it.

...but, their chances with the current main core don't get better as years go by. If they are truly a contender, then they would still have to get past that #1 seed team to get to the finals or conference finals regardless of their seeding. So if they believe that when healthy they actually have a championship shot, you take it. It doesn't get better next season.

This doesn't mean this season looks good for them, just saying that championship windows are fickle regardless.

I really think the hope is they manage to get into 7-10th spot around Mar 14, with Embiid, PG, Maxie etc relatively fresh, not logging a ton of minutes and of course healthy, play together for 15 regular season games and pray hard they have enough in the tank to beat the top teams in the East.

[Quattro]

I doubt anyone will be running away with anything on the East this year

[Sixers in 4]

Have a look at the lineup my Nets played when beating GSW

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401704850

No size at all and both Cams went down during the game so they had no right to be competitive BUT they’re well coached, play with spirit and nobodies keep stepping up

Sixers should be looking at EVERYONE because there’s something seriously wrong in that organisation as a couple of injuries isn’t an excuse for becoming the worst team in the NBA

It really isn't. The Sixers are an average team at best without Embiid then you take away George for most of the year and have Maxey miss significant time it really isn't hard to understand at all. Really the only constant has been McCain.

Where are you expecting the points to come from?

[Black Jack]

Sixers hole isn't too big, it's just that the rest of the East's lead is too small.

[Dez]

When Embiid gets his fat ass out of the hole.

[Decipher]

Have a look at the lineup my Nets played when beating GSW

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401704850

No size at all and both Cams went down during the game so they had no right to be competitive BUT they’re well coached, play with spirit and nobodies keep stepping up

Sixers should be looking at EVERYONE because there’s something seriously wrong in that organisation as a couple of injuries isn’t an excuse for becoming the worst team in the NBA

It really isn't. The Sixers are an average team at best without Embiid then you take away George for most of the year and have Maxey miss significant time it really isn't hard to understand at all. Really the only constant has been McCain.

Where are you expecting the points to come from?

It’s on Morey and Nurse then

No secret that the Sixers have needed athleticism and shooting for years but it’s constantly been ignored outside their best players

GM hasn’t done his job & the coach hasn’t been able to make it work at all

[Karate Diop]

I don't think they get a healthy Embiid at any point this season. They're cooked.

George is too old to carry a team, Maxey isn't good enough. They really have nobody else...

[HotelVitale]

[. Also CGF I'm really not optimistic for this season for the Sixers but seems like you're going to weird lengths to defend the point that the Sixers are completely boned even if things turn around tomorrow. Like here you're assuming the Pacers are a sleeping giant that's vastly underachieiving at .500, or that a mediocre Heat team is also about to take off when they seem like about a .500 team. Sixers just need to get to the 6th seed to avoid what you keep calling a pounding, and that means beating out MIA and IND. You're also assuming the Cavs are suddenly an instant buzzsaw in any PO series, even after how the same exact team played last PO. I'd obviously want to avoid them but using phrases like ass-whooping and curb-stomping for anyone who faces that team might be an indication you want to paint thinks a little rougher than they are.

I think they get stomped by Boston, New York, or Cleveland. So they'd need to crack the top 5, but even if we're talking about the top 6, why wouldn't I assume that Indiana would be better than Philly again? They were better than Philly last year, better regular season record and a much tougher playoff opponent, and they're younger. And what has Philly proven that Miami hasn't?

Guess I'm not sure what your point is now. If you're arguing that the Sixers so far this season have had nothing but bad health and bad vibes and you just can't see them shaking that off, I can't really argue with that. Feels like the best approach to have until Embiid and PG show they can be healthy and play like they did last year.

But it sounds like you're arguing something more like, setting aside injuries and vibes, you've always thought the Sixers with PG and their other offseason additions are worse or have a lower ceiling than last year. They basically swapped out Tobias Harris, Nic Batum, and Paul Reed for Paul George, Caleb Martin, McCain, Yabusele, and Drummond, and kept all their picks with the intent to make a splashy trade during the season. It wasn't a strange or unreasonable for most of the world to think that the team--that played your Knicks about even last offseason and made several big upgrades since then--would be able to compete pretty well.

If you're saying you've always thought that the team--if everyone was healthy and things came together for them--would easily be worse than Indiana and Miami and has zero chance of hanging with the Knicks or Cavs, I guess I'll just nod and move on in silence. I don't think that's a very reasonable take and I'm not sure I buy that's always been your stance, but this also aint the time to start defending the Sixers either. (Also the Pacers had the same record as the Sixers last year and Embiid missed more than half the season and the team was terrible without him.)

[Magicman125]

I Think it already has.

[Sixers in 4]

[. Also CGF I'm really not optimistic for this season for the Sixers but seems like you're going to weird lengths to defend the point that the Sixers are completely boned even if things turn around tomorrow. Like here you're assuming the Pacers are a sleeping giant that's vastly underachieiving at .500, or that a mediocre Heat team is also about to take off when they seem like about a .500 team. Sixers just need to get to the 6th seed to avoid what you keep calling a pounding, and that means beating out MIA and IND. You're also assuming the Cavs are suddenly an instant buzzsaw in any PO series, even after how the same exact team played last PO. I'd obviously want to avoid them but using phrases like ass-whooping and curb-stomping for anyone who faces that team might be an indication you want to paint thinks a little rougher than they are.

I think they get stomped by Boston, New York, or Cleveland. So they'd need to crack the top 5, but even if we're talking about the top 6, why wouldn't I assume that Indiana would be better than Philly again? They were better than Philly last year, better regular season record and a much tougher playoff opponent, and they're younger. And what has Philly proven that Miami hasn't?

Guess I'm not sure what your point is now. If you're arguing that the Sixers so far this season have had nothing but bad health and bad vibes and you just can't see them shaking that off, I can't really argue with that. Feels like the best approach to have until Embiid and PG show they can be healthy and play like they did last year.

But it sounds like you're arguing something more like, setting aside injuries and vibes, you've always thought the Sixers with PG and their other offseason additions are worse or have a lower ceiling than last year. They basically swapped out Tobias Harris, Nic Batum, and Paul Reed for Paul George, Caleb Martin, McCain, Yabusele, and Drummond, and kept all their picks with the intent to make a splashy trade during the season. It wasn't a strange or unreasonable for most of the world to think that the team--that played your Knicks about even last offseason and made several big upgrades since then--would be able to compete pretty well.

If you're saying you've always thought that the team--if everyone was healthy and things came together for them--would easily be worse than Indiana and Miami and has zero chance of hanging with the Knicks or Cavs, I guess I'll just nod and move on in silence. I don't think that's a very reasonable take and I'm not sure I buy that's always been your stance, but this also aint the time to start defending the Sixers either. (Also the Pacers had the same record as the Sixers last year and Embiid missed more than half the season and the team was terrible without him.)

That is where I was at too. I thought the big three wasn't as good as NY or Boston. Cle I didn't see coming but you have to add them to the list now as well. I thought they could have gotten there with the amount of picks and the way Morey did contracts to position himself for another big move. Now?

I don't think so at least not until I see Embiid return to form. I don't really want Morey to make an all in move at this point and want us to keep our picks. I suspect he'll make some move though

[wegotthabeet]

They're in the East so definitely not yet

16 wins probably gets you into the play-in in the East.

[cgf]

[. Also CGF I'm really not optimistic for this season for the Sixers but seems like you're going to weird lengths to defend the point that the Sixers are completely boned even if things turn around tomorrow. Like here you're assuming the Pacers are a sleeping giant that's vastly underachieiving at .500, or that a mediocre Heat team is also about to take off when they seem like about a .500 team. Sixers just need to get to the 6th seed to avoid what you keep calling a pounding, and that means beating out MIA and IND. You're also assuming the Cavs are suddenly an instant buzzsaw in any PO series, even after how the same exact team played last PO. I'd obviously want to avoid them but using phrases like ass-whooping and curb-stomping for anyone who faces that team might be an indication you want to paint thinks a little rougher than they are.

I think they get stomped by Boston, New York, or Cleveland. So they'd need to crack the top 5, but even if we're talking about the top 6, why wouldn't I assume that Indiana would be better than Philly again? They were better than Philly last year, better regular season record and a much tougher playoff opponent, and they're younger. And what has Philly proven that Miami hasn't?

Guess I'm not sure what your point is now. If you're arguing that the Sixers so far this season have had nothing but bad health and bad vibes and you just can't see them shaking that off, I can't really argue with that. Feels like the best approach to have until Embiid and PG show they can be healthy and play like they did last year.

But it sounds like you're arguing something more like, setting aside injuries and vibes, you've always thought the Sixers with PG and their other offseason additions are worse or have a lower ceiling than last year. They basically swapped out Tobias Harris, Nic Batum, and Paul Reed for Paul George, Caleb Martin, McCain, Yabusele, and Drummond, and kept all their picks with the intent to make a splashy trade during the season. It wasn't a strange or unreasonable for most of the world to think that the team--that played your Knicks about even last offseason and made several big upgrades since then--would be able to compete pretty well.

If you're saying you've always thought that the team--if everyone was healthy and things came together for them--would easily be worse than Indiana and Miami and has zero chance of hanging with the Knicks or Cavs, I guess I'll just nod and move on in silence. I don't think that's a very reasonable take and I'm not sure I buy that's always been your stance, but this also aint the time to start defending the Sixers either. (Also the Pacers had the same record as the Sixers last year and Embiid missed more than half the season and the team was terrible without him.)

I just don't get why you think Philly is some sleeping giant that's any better than those other teams. Indiana was really good after the lineup change last year, despite Mathurin going down, their youth, and needing to build chemistry with Siakam in season. Philly will still have poor depth around a soft star, with a lack of the chemistry that other teams have been developing for weeks and weeks already, even if they got healthy tommorow.

So their hole would continue to get deeper before they got rolling and started to just match the teams' they were chasing's win pace, nevermind surpassing it by enough to close the gap.

[mg]

Sixers hole isn't too big, it's just that the rest of the East's lead is too small.

The EC is so bad. Sixers are 3-14 and only 2 games out in the loss column to get into the play in. Bulls and Pistons are tied for the last play in spot with 12 losses. As long as they are somewhat healthy after the All Star break they will get in.

Their biggest issue is they will end up playing someone like Boston in the first round.

[ArksNetsSince99]

3-14 at the moment, so 17 games gone, 65 remaining.

Let's say they only get the main guys together for 50 games the rest of the season, and in the remaining 15 games, they go 5-10 (I'm being pessimistic about it to stretch how much of a hole they could be in), so 8-24 in those 32 games.

If they win the other 50 games at a 50 win pace, that would get them to 38 wins, which is a .463 win percentage.

Currently, .463 win percentage would be 9th and would have them in the play-in. I'm assuming as long as they can make the play-in, they are content, so I suppose anything that projects them around 38+ wins they would be content to stomach.

Do you think Nets will be sellers at the deadline? Feels like a team that should fall off at one point, either naturally or by selling some talent. Making East even worse. I think NETS FO doesn't care for being an 8th seed in this years play offs at all, they must be happy their guys look good, either for the future or for trade value, and they hit with head coach hire, so they will take victories there, but they need to get Ls on a schedule.

Nets just swept their West Coast trip beating the Kings, Warriors and Suns.
They have some fighters there, scrapping and not doing wild silly stuff like what Lamelo would do.
I can see Marks trying to dangle his players and saying, look at our really hard working disciplined players, come and shop for nominal fee of 3-5 First round picks, we would give you a family discount.

Tyrese Martin 5 first round picks

And we got pass first PG if anyone is interested, won’t come cheap though

[UcanUwill]

Do you think Nets will be sellers at the deadline? Feels like a team that should fall off at one point, either naturally or by selling some talent. Making East even worse. I think NETS FO doesn't care for being an 8th seed in this years play offs at all, they must be happy their guys look good, either for the future or for trade value, and they hit with head coach hire, so they will take victories there, but they need to get Ls on a schedule.

Nets just swept their West Coast trip beating the Kings, Warriors and Suns.
They have some fighters there, scrapping and not doing wild silly stuff like what Lamelo would do.
I can see Marks trying to dangle his players and saying, look at our really hard working disciplined players, come and shop for nominal fee of 3-5 First round picks, we would give you a family discount.

Tyrese Martin 5 first round picks

And we got pass first PG if anyone is interested, won’t come cheap though

In all seriousness, what would you see for Dennis, Johnson and Finney-Smith, A one first round pick for each?

[ArksNetsSince99]

Nets just swept their West Coast trip beating the Kings, Warriors and Suns.
They have some fighters there, scrapping and not doing wild silly stuff like what Lamelo would do.
I can see Marks trying to dangle his players and saying, look at our really hard working disciplined players, come and shop for nominal fee of 3-5 First round picks, we would give you a family discount.

Tyrese Martin 5 first round picks

And we got pass first PG if anyone is interested, won’t come cheap though

In all seriousness, what would you see for Dennis, Johnson and Finney-Smith, A one first round pick for each?

I think that’s fair but knowing Marks he’d want 2 for each , and prob 1 for DFS