Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8

[HumbleRen]

Chet went down and OKC started Jalen Williams as a C. It is crazy to think a 6'5 guy can play C and not Barnes who is bigger and grittier. I know he has a facial injury but in time he should play some C minutes. There are advantages there.

This Athletic article highlights that you don't always need a big to function:

The Thunder still lead the league in points allowed per possession. They force more turnovers than anyone. The trend has remained true with or without a top-notch shot-blocker: This team, which is now 14-4, doesn’t defend quite like any other — especially when Williams runs at center, which Daigneault calls “a muscle that if we do it effectively, which we’ve done to this point, will help us in the future.”

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5953873/2024/11/28/nba-thunder-defense-jalen-williams?source=user-shared-article

Barnes being a guard has no advantages, it is what defenses want. He can still run the offense in transition, do the odd pull-up, but he should be at the elbows in the halfcourt. He can be a C as a defender. We shouldn't be so accommodating to his desires.

It's fine for now, but depending on our next roster moves, if we do replace Darko in the future, a coach who can get Scottie to buy into playing center as we run smallball makes a ton of sense.

I think this is a bit unfair to Scottie. OKC probably has the best roster to play small ball lineup in the because they arguably have the best peremiter defenders in the league outside of Boston.

We saw Scottie be the center of a top 10 defence in his rookie year, he can clearly do it but I just don’t think we have the defensive make up to do it at the moment.

[manjusaka]

Chet went down and OKC started Jalen Williams as a C. It is crazy to think a 6'5 guy can play C and not Barnes who is bigger and grittier. I know he has a facial injury but in time he should play some C minutes. There are advantages there.

This Athletic article highlights that you don't always need a big to function:



https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5953873/2024/11/28/nba-thunder-defense-jalen-williams?source=user-shared-article

Barnes being a guard has no advantages, it is what defenses want. He can still run the offense in transition, do the odd pull-up, but he should be at the elbows in the halfcourt. He can be a C as a defender. We shouldn't be so accommodating to his desires.

It's fine for now, but depending on our next roster moves, if we do replace Darko in the future, a coach who can get Scottie to buy into playing center as we run smallball makes a ton of sense.

I think this is a bit unfair to Scottie. OKC probably has the best roster to play small ball lineup in the because they arguably have the best peremiter defenders in the league outside of Boston.

We saw Scottie be the center of a top 10 defence in his rookie year, he can clearly do it but I just don’t think we have the defensive make up to do it at the moment.

He can do it but that would probably take a troll on his body.

[Scase]

It's crazy that you can type this without becoming aware of the absurdity in being obsessed by shooting efficiency while ignoring literally EVERYTHING else.

The fact that "one more miss" or "one more make" makes such a huge difference in the stats should indicate to you that the stats aren't what is most important.

Instead....you suggest scotty should dictate his game-play with the sole purpose of maximizing effiency numbers. Maybe he also shouldn't heave half court shots at the buzzer of the first quarter too? It would be so damaging to his efficiency!

There's an additional consideration in basketball that I suggest you overlook. It's called "winning the game".

If scotty has to shoot a low efficiency to win a game....he should.

This might be one of the dumbest things I've read here lol.

Sometimes you just gotta miss shots to win a game you know?

No, in no world is being a bad shooter some magical trick to winning a game. Higher quality shots, are 100% better 100% of the time. You know what helps win games, scoring more points. You know how you make that a more likely outcome? Taking better shots.

Also nice strawman with the half court heaves

[SocialistHipHop]

Chet went down and OKC started Jalen Williams as a C. It is crazy to think a 6'5 guy can play C and not Barnes who is bigger and grittier. I know he has a facial injury but in time he should play some C minutes. There are advantages there.

This Athletic article highlights that you don't always need a big to function:



https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5953873/2024/11/28/nba-thunder-defense-jalen-williams?source=user-shared-article

Barnes being a guard has no advantages, it is what defenses want. He can still run the offense in transition, do the odd pull-up, but he should be at the elbows in the halfcourt. He can be a C as a defender. We shouldn't be so accommodating to his desires.

It's fine for now, but depending on our next roster moves, if we do replace Darko in the future, a coach who can get Scottie to buy into playing center as we run smallball makes a ton of sense.

I think this is a bit unfair to Scottie. OKC probably has the best roster to play small ball lineup in the because they arguably have the best peremiter defenders in the league outside of Boston.

We saw Scottie be the center of a top 10 defence in his rookie year, he can clearly do it but I just don’t think we have the defensive make up to do it at the moment.

It's pretty clear that the Raptors don't want him playing center at all. Hopefully he gets that stretch 5 to play next to him soon.

[Vampirate]

You're missing my point. It's that he comes into the games guns blazing when he really shouldn't be. He smartly stopped shooting 3's in the 2nd half of that detroit game. His 2 "40%" games, were a grand total of 5 made 3's, it's such a small amount its not even worth mentioning.

3/8 is a good %, if you can do that consistently. But it's such a pathetic sample size that 1 more miss and he drops to 25% and 1 more make shoots him up to 50%. Since his return, he's taking 8 3's a game, and shooting 26%. He's probably not that bad, but he's also definitely not 40% good.

I don't really care if he's shooting poorly because of his eye, his hand, or just cause he sucks at 3's, the point remains the same, you need to be a better shooter before you start taking that many ATB pull ups.

There is zero benefit to both the team, or his own development for him to be taking those kinds of shots so frequently in game.

He clearly has range to about 10 feet, I want to see if he can extend that out to 16 feet.

His shooting from 16-3P should rise, i'm not buying him at .273 there, just like there's scepticism of his .500 at 10-16 feet.

Also only getting 2 Fts in the N.O game is bad. He needs to be consistent there too.

In the end we're all dissecting a very small sample size.

The sample size this year is small, but Scottie has 210 other games showing that he is a 31% 3p shooter. Again, I'm not saying he should take no shots, I'm saying taking shots that are WAY outside a players skill area, is not going to magically improve just cause it's in a game. He should be taking 3's absolutely, he just should be taking better 3's.

Nobody on the roster not named Immanuel Quickley should be taking that many ATB pull ups. I criticize RJ as I do Gradey, as I do Scottie. A bad shot is a bad shot.

Playing devil's advocate, any three that's off the dribble is also way outside his skill area atm.

As for the 2nd bold, this is a skill that he actually needs to develop, and literally the only way to do that is to get comfortable doing it.

Yes, he sucks at it. But what you're basically talking about is not trying to add it and not take the pain and being afraid of failure. Essentially a Ben Simmons mentality.

Ben is a horrible shooter, however a large part of why he stayed horrible was he never went out of his comfort zone as a player, he never 'took threes in a game'.

Siakam the first few years was a horrible three point shooter, but give credit to Casey for telling him to just shoot it.

My point is Barnes needs to develop the mentality that he can do it, and then seriously work on it to the point where it's a strength.

That will take time.

[Scase]

He clearly has range to about 10 feet, I want to see if he can extend that out to 16 feet.

His shooting from 16-3P should rise, i'm not buying him at .273 there, just like there's scepticism of his .500 at 10-16 feet.

Also only getting 2 Fts in the N.O game is bad. He needs to be consistent there too.

In the end we're all dissecting a very small sample size.

The sample size this year is small, but Scottie has 210 other games showing that he is a 31% 3p shooter. Again, I'm not saying he should take no shots, I'm saying taking shots that are WAY outside a players skill area, is not going to magically improve just cause it's in a game. He should be taking 3's absolutely, he just should be taking better 3's.

Nobody on the roster not named Immanuel Quickley should be taking that many ATB pull ups. I criticize RJ as I do Gradey, as I do Scottie. A bad shot is a bad shot.

Playing devil's advocate, any three that's off the dribble is also way outside his skill area atm.

As for the 2nd bold, this is a skill that he actually needs to develop, and literally the only way to do that is to get comfortable doing it.

Yes, he sucks at it. But what you're basically talking about is not trying to add it and not take the pain and being afraid of failure. Essentially a Ben Simmons mentality.

Ben is a horrible shooter, however a large part of why he stayed horrible was he never went out of his comfort zone as a player, he never 'took threes in a game'.

Siakam the first few years was a horrible three point shooter, but give credit to Casey for telling him to just shoot it.

My point is Barnes needs to develop the mentality that he can do it, and then seriously work on it to the point where it's a strength.

That will take time.

I agree that it is a skill he needs to develop, but as I've mentioned taking an ATB pull up 3 when no defender is within 6-10ft of you is not something that needs game reps, it is no different than an open shot in practice. Game reps should be for things you cannot replicate in practice. And even if that is that exact type of shot, you learn to walk before you run.

Scottie has to show he can be even remotely consistent with set shots before those should be flying. There's a reason we're teaching Chomche the basics first and not advanced plays, you have to start somewhere, and for Scottie taking arguably one of the most difficult shots in basketball is skipping a few steps.

Mentality is great to have, but if you miss 90% of the time, it starts to shake your confidence. He's not a shooter miss until you make isn't something he can rely on, he can't fall back on the "Well I'm good at this, so eventually it'll even out", he's a bad 3pt shooter, and we've seen him go on ultra hot streaks before, just to crash back down to earth. If those reps were valuable, we'd have seen some sort of improvement already.

[Vampirate]

The sample size this year is small, but Scottie has 210 other games showing that he is a 31% 3p shooter. Again, I'm not saying he should take no shots, I'm saying taking shots that are WAY outside a players skill area, is not going to magically improve just cause it's in a game. He should be taking 3's absolutely, he just should be taking better 3's.

Nobody on the roster not named Immanuel Quickley should be taking that many ATB pull ups. I criticize RJ as I do Gradey, as I do Scottie. A bad shot is a bad shot.

Playing devil's advocate, any three that's off the dribble is also way outside his skill area atm.

As for the 2nd bold, this is a skill that he actually needs to develop, and literally the only way to do that is to get comfortable doing it.

Yes, he sucks at it. But what you're basically talking about is not trying to add it and not take the pain and being afraid of failure. Essentially a Ben Simmons mentality.

Ben is a horrible shooter, however a large part of why he stayed horrible was he never went out of his comfort zone as a player, he never 'took threes in a game'.

Siakam the first few years was a horrible three point shooter, but give credit to Casey for telling him to just shoot it.

My point is Barnes needs to develop the mentality that he can do it, and then seriously work on it to the point where it's a strength.

That will take time.

I agree that it is a skill he needs to develop, but as I've mentioned taking an ATB pull up 3 when no defender is within 6-10ft of you is not something that needs game reps, it is no different than an open shot in practice. Game reps should be for things you cannot replicate in practice. And even if that is that exact type of shot, you learn to walk before you run.

Scottie has to show he can be even remotely consistent with set shots before those should be flying. There's a reason we're teaching Chomche the basics first and not advanced plays, you have to start somewhere, and for Scottie taking arguably one of the most difficult shots in basketball is skipping a few steps.

Mentality is great to have, but if you miss 90% of the time, it starts to shake your confidence. He's not a shooter miss until you make isn't something he can rely on, he can't fall back on the "Well I'm good at this, so eventually it'll even out", he's a bad 3pt shooter, and we've seen him go on ultra hot streaks before, just to crash back down to earth. If those reps were valuable, we'd have seen some sort of improvement already.

First bolded, think about those shots as the traditional three point shots Barnes had to take in his rookie/sophomore season where teams were begging him to shoot. Those games we're basically target practice, very much like the N.O. game.

As for the underlined, he needs to develop that. Really it's as simple as that. Putting this another way, the opposing defenses should never rest easy that because he went 0-4 from 3, he's always going to his default range. Thus being easier to defend.

You should have a look at Tatum's three point shot chart. The guy has tons, and I mean tons of nights where he's like 1-10 from 3.

Obviously Barnes is not close to Tatum as a shooter, but in order to run, you first need to walk.

If Barnes cannot take those same bad shots now with players nowhere close to him, he won't be able to pull off those shots with any sort of defensive pressure on him either.

While yes it's like an open shot in practice, it's still a shot that has in game consequences.

Have you noticed that even in his set shots, he's taking deeper ones. I think he's confident enough at the 3 point line but wants to expand his shooting range/or Darko does.

As for the 2nd bolded, I think that's a more complicated answer than you think.

You don't just shoot 39% from 3 for half a season and 25% for the next half.

I really think becoming a #1 option exposed him (in a good way). When he had Siakam the defensive pressure was no squarely on him, now that he's the decacto #1 option he's the defense primary target in shutting down.

Perhaps fatigue with becoming the #1 option factored in with the changes that lead to the dip/and faulty shooting form

[Tripod]

Scottie at C fir some minutes is fine...if you have size elsewhere.

But it's hard to do if you have IQ, RJ, Ochai and Dick out there because you are undersized everywhere and likely to get killed in rebounding.

[Vampirate]

The sample size this year is small, but Scottie has 210 other games showing that he is a 31% 3p shooter. Again, I'm not saying he should take no shots, I'm saying taking shots that are WAY outside a players skill area, is not going to magically improve just cause it's in a game. He should be taking 3's absolutely, he just should be taking better 3's.

Nobody on the roster not named Immanuel Quickley should be taking that many ATB pull ups. I criticize RJ as I do Gradey, as I do Scottie. A bad shot is a bad shot.

Playing devil's advocate, any three that's off the dribble is also way outside his skill area atm.

As for the 2nd bold, this is a skill that he actually needs to develop, and literally the only way to do that is to get comfortable doing it.

Yes, he sucks at it. But what you're basically talking about is not trying to add it and not take the pain and being afraid of failure. Essentially a Ben Simmons mentality.

Ben is a horrible shooter, however a large part of why he stayed horrible was he never went out of his comfort zone as a player, he never 'took threes in a game'.

Siakam the first few years was a horrible three point shooter, but give credit to Casey for telling him to just shoot it.

My point is Barnes needs to develop the mentality that he can do it, and then seriously work on it to the point where it's a strength.

That will take time.

I agree that it is a skill he needs to develop, but as I've mentioned taking an ATB pull up 3 when no defender is within 6-10ft of you is not something that needs game reps, it is no different than an open shot in practice. Game reps should be for things you cannot replicate in practice. And even if that is that exact type of shot, you learn to walk before you run.

Scottie has to show he can be even remotely consistent with set shots before those should be flying. There's a reason we're teaching Chomche the basics first and not advanced plays, you have to start somewhere, and for Scottie taking arguably one of the most difficult shots in basketball is skipping a few steps.

Mentality is great to have, but if you miss 90% of the time, it starts to shake your confidence. He's not a shooter miss until you make isn't something he can rely on, he can't fall back on the "Well I'm good at this, so eventually it'll even out", he's a bad 3pt shooter, and we've seen him go on ultra hot streaks before, just to crash back down to earth. If those reps were valuable, we'd have seen some sort of improvement already.

I've looked into Barnes shot char and things are better than we think they are.



Lighter areas indicate where he's below average, darker areas indicate where he's above areas.

In the in between circles area he's shooting a combined 14/25 a 56% mark which is excellent.

Beyond that circle it gets ugly lol. In the top center/ top right, where he's taking 28 combined threes, he's only made 5 of them.

You'd have to believe he's going to shoot better than 17.8% in that 3 point range.

To compare this, last year he made 65/173 a 37.5% mark.

The absolute worst scenario is not having a zone you are above average in.

I'd rather him have areas where he excells at and dead cold in other areas, than none at all.

[Ell Curry]

Scottie at C fir some minutes is fine...if you have size elsewhere.

But it's hard to do if you have IQ, RJ, Ochai and Dick out there because you are undersized everywhere and likely to get killed in rebounding.

I think that's half of it. The other half is having perimeter guys who can stop drives, which is what OKC has (Dort, Caruso, Jalen Williams, even Wiggins somewhat). Apart from Agbaji and Mitchell, we don't have guards or wings who can keep anyone out of the lane.

[HumbleRen]

It's fine for now, but depending on our next roster moves, if we do replace Darko in the future, a coach who can get Scottie to buy into playing center as we run smallball makes a ton of sense.

I think this is a bit unfair to Scottie. OKC probably has the best roster to play small ball lineup in the because they arguably have the best peremiter defenders in the league outside of Boston.

We saw Scottie be the center of a top 10 defence in his rookie year, he can clearly do it but I just don’t think we have the defensive make up to do it at the moment.

It's pretty clear that the Raptors don't want him playing center at all. Hopefully he gets that stretch 5 to play next to him soon.

I think they mean when it comes to crunch time. Surely these people don’t want Scottie to play small ball 5 full time? That would be pretty stupid.

[HumbleRen]

Scottie at C fir some minutes is fine...if you have size elsewhere.

But it's hard to do if you have IQ, RJ, Ochai and Dick out there because you are undersized everywhere and likely to get killed in rebounding.

I think that's half of it. The other half is having perimeter guys who can stop drives, which is what OKC has (Dort, Caruso, Jalen Williams, even Wiggins somewhat). Apart from Agbaji and Mitchell, we don't have guards or wings who can keep anyone out of the lane.

OKC also went small ball 5 out of necessity. As soon as IHart came back they stopped it immediately lol.

[Scase]

Playing devil's advocate, any three that's off the dribble is also way outside his skill area atm.

As for the 2nd bold, this is a skill that he actually needs to develop, and literally the only way to do that is to get comfortable doing it.

Yes, he sucks at it. But what you're basically talking about is not trying to add it and not take the pain and being afraid of failure. Essentially a Ben Simmons mentality.

Ben is a horrible shooter, however a large part of why he stayed horrible was he never went out of his comfort zone as a player, he never 'took threes in a game'.

Siakam the first few years was a horrible three point shooter, but give credit to Casey for telling him to just shoot it.

My point is Barnes needs to develop the mentality that he can do it, and then seriously work on it to the point where it's a strength.

That will take time.

I agree that it is a skill he needs to develop, but as I've mentioned taking an ATB pull up 3 when no defender is within 6-10ft of you is not something that needs game reps, it is no different than an open shot in practice. Game reps should be for things you cannot replicate in practice. And even if that is that exact type of shot, you learn to walk before you run.

Scottie has to show he can be even remotely consistent with set shots before those should be flying. There's a reason we're teaching Chomche the basics first and not advanced plays, you have to start somewhere, and for Scottie taking arguably one of the most difficult shots in basketball is skipping a few steps.

Mentality is great to have, but if you miss 90% of the time, it starts to shake your confidence. He's not a shooter miss until you make isn't something he can rely on, he can't fall back on the "Well I'm good at this, so eventually it'll even out", he's a bad 3pt shooter, and we've seen him go on ultra hot streaks before, just to crash back down to earth. If those reps were valuable, we'd have seen some sort of improvement already.

First bolded, think about those shots as the traditional three point shots Barnes had to take in his rookie/sophomore season where teams were begging him to shoot. Those games we're basically target practice, very much like the N.O. game.

As for the underlined, he needs to develop that. Really it's as simple as that. Putting this another way, the opposing defenses should never rest easy that because he went 0-4 from 3, he's always going to his default range. Thus being easier to defend.

You should have a look at Tatum's three point shot chart. The guy has tons, and I mean tons of nights where he's like 1-10 from 3.

Obviously Barnes is not close to Tatum as a shooter, but in order to run, you first need to walk.

If Barnes cannot take those same bad shots now with players nowhere close to him, he won't be able to pull off those shots with any sort of defensive pressure on him either.

While yes it's like an open shot in practice, it's still a shot that has in game consequences.

Have you noticed that even in his set shots, he's taking deeper ones. I think he's confident enough at the 3 point line but wants to expand his shooting range/or Darko does.

As for the 2nd bolded, I think that's a more complicated answer than you think.

You don't just shoot 39% from 3 for half a season and 25% for the next half.

I really think becoming a #1 option exposed him (in a good way). When he had Siakam the defensive pressure was no squarely on him, now that he's the decacto #1 option he's the defense primary target in shutting down.

Perhaps fatigue with becoming the #1 option factored in with the changes that lead to the dip/and faulty shooting form

Teams were begging Scottie to shoot when he had the ball ATB, as in when he was stationary. He wasn't taking pullups as he dribbled past half court. They are different situations. A defence will always rest easy when he goes 0-4, because he is a career 30% (at best) 3 point shooter. He's not going to make defences suddenly respect him because he continues to take bad 3pt shots that will continue to tank his averages. Ochai is starting to get respect with his overall 3%, but the only reason it's going up is because he is a legit threat from the corner. So even if he's ATB, defences will still think "Crap this guy is a really good shooter, I better close out" even if he sucks at ATB 3's.

Scottie isn't a good 3pt shooter from anywhere, he is below average to outright bad from every single spot behind the arc. So when a defence sees him already as a bad shooter, taking the hardest possible 3, they are going to continue to not respect him. He needs to start sinking 3's regularly, and again, taking the hardest shots possible is not how you do that.

Tatum is also a really bad example, he came into the league shooting 40% from 3, he's not going to shoot 37-40% every game, but he does it often enough to have earned that respect since his first season. Scottie hasn't done that in a single season to date.

I'm glad you agree with the walk before run idea, but you seem to be misunderstanding that those ATB pull ups are the running, C&S and set 3's are the walking aspect. Again, the issue is not him taking 3's, it's him taking the worst possible ones.

Playing devil's advocate, any three that's off the dribble is also way outside his skill area atm.

As for the 2nd bold, this is a skill that he actually needs to develop, and literally the only way to do that is to get comfortable doing it.

Yes, he sucks at it. But what you're basically talking about is not trying to add it and not take the pain and being afraid of failure. Essentially a Ben Simmons mentality.

Ben is a horrible shooter, however a large part of why he stayed horrible was he never went out of his comfort zone as a player, he never 'took threes in a game'.

Siakam the first few years was a horrible three point shooter, but give credit to Casey for telling him to just shoot it.

My point is Barnes needs to develop the mentality that he can do it, and then seriously work on it to the point where it's a strength.

That will take time.

I agree that it is a skill he needs to develop, but as I've mentioned taking an ATB pull up 3 when no defender is within 6-10ft of you is not something that needs game reps, it is no different than an open shot in practice. Game reps should be for things you cannot replicate in practice. And even if that is that exact type of shot, you learn to walk before you run.

Scottie has to show he can be even remotely consistent with set shots before those should be flying. There's a reason we're teaching Chomche the basics first and not advanced plays, you have to start somewhere, and for Scottie taking arguably one of the most difficult shots in basketball is skipping a few steps.

Mentality is great to have, but if you miss 90% of the time, it starts to shake your confidence. He's not a shooter miss until you make isn't something he can rely on, he can't fall back on the "Well I'm good at this, so eventually it'll even out", he's a bad 3pt shooter, and we've seen him go on ultra hot streaks before, just to crash back down to earth. If those reps were valuable, we'd have seen some sort of improvement already.

I've looked into Barnes shot char and things are better than we think they are.



Lighter areas indicate where he's below average, darker areas indicate where he's above areas.

In the in between circles area he's shooting a combined 14/25 a 56% mark which is excellent.

Beyond that circle it gets ugly lol. In the top center/ top right, where he's taking 28 combined threes, he's only made 5 of them.

You'd have to believe he's going to shoot better than 17.8% in that 3 point range.

To compare this, last year he made 65/173 a 37.5% mark.

The absolute worst scenario is not having a zone you are above average in.

I'd rather him have areas where he excells at and dead cold in other areas, than none at all.

Come on man, this is a terrible argument lol. He's "above average" in 2 locations this season, on 11 total shots. That sample size is so small it's meaningless. Last year is a much better example, and even then it's still pretty small.

Scottie is a better shooter from range than what he has shown this season, but he's still not even sniffing average. He needs to take better shots, period.

[Vampirate]

Teams were begging Scottie to shoot when he had the ball ATB, as in when he was stationary. He wasn't taking pullups as he dribbled past half court. They are different situations. A defence will always rest easy when he goes 0-4, because he is a career 30% (at best) 3 point shooter. He's not going to make defences suddenly respect him because he continues to take bad 3pt shots that will continue to tank his averages. Ochai is starting to get respect with his overall 3%, but the only reason it's going up is because he is a legit threat from the corner. So even if he's ATB, defences will still think "Crap this guy is a really good shooter, I better close out" even if he sucks at ATB 3's.

Scottie isn't a good 3pt shooter from anywhere, he is below average to outright bad from every single spot behind the arc. So when a defence sees him already as a bad shooter, taking the hardest possible 3, they are going to continue to not respect him. He needs to start sinking 3's regularly, and again, taking the hardest shots possible is not how you do that.

Tatum is also a really bad example, he came into the league shooting 40% from 3, he's not going to shoot 37-40% every game, but he does it often enough to have earned that respect since his first season. Scottie hasn't done that in a single season to date.

I'm glad you agree with the walk before run idea, but you seem to be misunderstanding that those ATB pull ups are the running, C&S and set 3's are the walking aspect. Again, the issue is not him taking 3's, it's him taking the worst possible ones.

There's no doubt he's not known as a shooter, but I hope he can replicate last year again, because he was actually very good above the break last year in threes. (outside center left where he shot 25%)

If he has another year like that, the narrative changes.

Also.

You're being fooled by a cold streak in a certain area..

Barnes has never shot under 15% from 3 in any of the ranges in a season....ever. This season at the top right, he's shooting 14.3% from that area, last season he shot 38% from that same range.

Even in his sophomore year he shot 25% in that rea, rookie season 30%.

For various reasons, he's in a slump in that area. (btw last year in the 3 point center range he shot 37.8%).

In the dead center 3 point range he's shooting 21% this year...

His assist rate on his 3s is still around 90%, the bigger issue here is not where he's taking them, but the new degree of difficulty that he's added by taking more off them off dribble.

Again, 38% from that area last year, 14.3% in that area, this year.

I think you're overacting to a 2/12 game a bit, which is skewing the numbers.

There's also possibly a factor of rust/eye that's impacting him.

As for Ochai, he's 'strictly' a corner shooter, but a really good one.

[Vampirate]

Come on man, this is a terrible argument lol. He's "above average" in 2 locations this season, on 11 total shots. That sample size is so small it's meaningless. Last year is a much better example, and even then it's still pretty small.

Scottie is a better shooter from range than what he has shown this season, but he's still not even sniffing average. He needs to take better shots, period.

His conversion near the rim is bad atm, but his shooting specifically around the FT range has been good.

6/12 near the FT line, 8/11 on the right.

Beyond the FT line is where it flat out gets ugly. It's like he's lost his range completely beyond that area.

[tsherkin]

His conversion near the rim is bad atm,

That will probably normalize. One or two games will change that back toward his career norms. And his three is at a career-low at the moment as well, so I'm hoping to see at least some normalization back to 30-31% there. < 24% is... really bad. Like, incompetent.

We can also expect some normalization from his FT shooting, which has been quite mediocre and like 5% worse than his average over his prior play.

but his shooting specifically around the FT range has been good.

6/12 near the FT line, 8/11 on the right.

Obviously, though, those are useless samples, so we shall see what happens with more games and more attempts.

[YogurtProducer]

I think this is a bit unfair to Scottie. OKC probably has the best roster to play small ball lineup in the because they arguably have the best peremiter defenders in the league outside of Boston.

We saw Scottie be the center of a top 10 defence in his rookie year, he can clearly do it but I just don’t think we have the defensive make up to do it at the moment.

It's pretty clear that the Raptors don't want him playing center at all. Hopefully he gets that stretch 5 to play next to him soon.

I think they mean when it comes to crunch time. Surely these people don’t want Scottie to play small ball 5 full time? That would be pretty stupid.

Even Draymond never did that with GSW. But in important games it got used a lot more. I can see that being what we do going forward.

[tsherkin]

Even Draymond never did that with GSW. But in important games it got used a lot more. I can see that being what we do going forward.

I think a little 4/5 action, situationally, could be quite beneficial in the right matchups. We don't do a lot to help Scottie look better as a scorer, right? Same same with RJ. We just throw them out there and pray, but they aren't that caliber of scorer. So anything we could do to create better spacing, better looks, etc.

[Vampirate]

His conversion near the rim is bad atm,

That will probably normalize. One or two games will change that back toward his career norms. And his three is at a career-low at the moment as well, so I'm hoping to see at least some normalization back to 30-31% there. < 24% is... really bad. Like, incompetent.

We can also expect some normalization from his FT shooting, which has been quite mediocre and like 5% worse than his average over his prior play.

but his shooting specifically around the FT range has been good.

6/12 near the FT line, 8/11 on the right.

Obviously, though, those are useless samples, so we shall see what happens with more games and more attempts.

He's shooting like rookie Ausar Thompson from top left. Even rookie Barnes is better than that. Cold streak.

I buy Barnes being 30% there, not under 15% lol.

As for the 2nd bold, call it a hopeful sign, and that those off season videos showing off his shooting form means something lol.

[tsherkin]

He's shooting like rookie Ausar Thompson from top left. Even rookie Barnes is better than that. Cold streak.

I buy Barnes being 30% there, not under 15% lol.

I agree, yes. I'm not going to trust anything which is much under his career norms until we're past the ASB.

As for the 2nd bold, call it a hopeful sign, and that those off season videos showing off his shooting form means something lol.

We shall see. I shall continue to be skeptical, but that's as likely to be true as your optimism, so we shall see over time xD