Edit: Any interest in Randle and DDV?

[zimpy27]

This thread is even more depressing than I expected. It definitely seems a 3 team trade would be needed.

At this point I’d like to trade him for expirings and any picks possible. Then MN use this year to assess all the young guys around Ant.

They also need another vet who can hold Ant accountable. He has insane talent, but takes far too many plays and games off.

Why not keep him and try re-sign him for cheap?

It took KAT and Gobert a year to align.

[shrink]

Right now the vibes, not the talent, are what’s hurting the Wolves.

To Towns’ credit, when MIN traded for Gobert and pushed KAT (the reigning 3rd team All NBA Center) out of his position, Towns went out of his way to make Gobert feel welcomed. He worked very hard to feed Rudy, passing up shots he makes easily to make Gobert feel included. This was important, because DLo refused to throw Gobert lobs, and Ant hasn’t figured it out (and still hasn’t, mostly). We all saw Gobert pout in a close game when Randle waved him off again - which has been happening all season.

If Randle is going to stay, he needs to get with the Wolves culture. That means playing team defense, and getting the ball to Gobert on occasion. Randle says he loves Chris Finch, and Finch has done a lot with mismatched toys ever since he got to MIN, so it’s not impossible that Randle will change. Watching them right now though, I’m not sure that will happen.

Randle is still a very good player. He just needs to go to a team where he can play his same game, and I’m not sure many teams fit that bill.

[shrink]

Why not keep him and try re-sign him for cheap?

This is an interesting thought experiment.

Randle makes $33 this year, and has a $30.9 mil player option. He is also extension eligible.

As a #2 NBA option, that’s probably a reasonable salary, and the $30.9 might be an underpay with the cap rising 10%. But what does Randle want to do? He seemed eager to be on a contender, playing with Finch when he got traded - now only one of those things is true. He’s putting up good numbers, but he is the scapegoat for losses, even if MIN’s media isn’t the torture rack that NY is. Would he want to stay? And for how much? Anyone have a prediction?

One thing I liked about the trade at the time was that MIN had insurance to protect themselves from contract leverage. If he threatens to leave without a big contract, MIN has a PF (Naz Reid) waiting in the wings, and they can give Randle’s money to the popular Reid.

[winforlose]

Why not keep him and try re-sign him for cheap?

This is an interesting thought experiment.

Randle makes $33 this year, and has a $30.9 mil player option. He is also extension eligible.

As a #2 NBA option, that’s probably a reasonable salary, and the $30.9 might be an underpay with the cap rising 10%. But what does Randle want to do? He seemed eager to be on a contender, playing with Finch when he got traded - now only one of those things is true. He’s putting up good numbers, but he is the scapegoat for losses, even if MIN’s media isn’t the torture rack that NY is. Would he want to stay? And for how much? Anyone have a prediction?

One thing I liked about the trade at the time was that MIN had insurance to protect themselves from contract leverage. If he threatens to leave without a big contract, MIN has a PF (Naz Reid) waiting in the wings, and they can give Randle’s money to the popular Reid.

Reid is better than Randle at every phase of the game. Reid is a better overall 3 point shooter, better off the dribble at getting to the rim (when moving downhill,) a better defender, a better teammate, and arguably a better rebounder given his downward shift from a C to a SF/PF hybrid. Reid should be starting, and Randle coming off the bench. Reid should be closing and Randle on the sidelines watching. If Randle could accept this, then maybe he could stay for 20 million a year as a 6th man. The problem is Randle thinks he is a 50+ million player who is so good he doesn’t need to play defense. The only place we should send Randle is home.

[Domejandro]

Why not keep him and try re-sign him for cheap?

This is an interesting thought experiment.

Randle makes $33 this year, and has a $30.9 mil player option. He is also extension eligible.

As a #2 NBA option, that’s probably a reasonable salary, and the $30.9 might be an underpay with the cap rising 10%. But what does Randle want to do? He seemed eager to be on a contender, playing with Finch when he got traded - now only one of those things is true. He’s putting up good numbers, but he is the scapegoat for losses, even if MIN’s media isn’t the torture rack that NY is. Would he want to stay? And for how much? Anyone have a prediction?

One thing I liked about the trade at the time was that MIN had insurance to protect themselves from contract leverage. If he threatens to leave without a big contract, MIN has a PF (Naz Reid) waiting in the wings, and they can give Randle’s money to the popular Reid.

Reid is better than Randle at every phase of the game. Reid is a better overall 3 point shooter, better off the dribble at getting to the rim (when moving downhill,) a better defender, a better teammate, and arguably a better rebounder given his downward shift from a C to a SF/PF hybrid. Reid should be starting, and Randle coming off the bench. Reid should be closing and Randle on the sidelines watching. If Randle could accept this, then maybe he could stay for 20 million a year as a 6th man. The problem is Randle thinks he is a 50+ million player who is so good he doesn’t need to play defense. The only place we should send Randle is home.

Naz Reid is a better spot-up shooter, but there is absolutely zero world where he is a better rebounder than Julius Randle (unless we are assuming this year's sample of Randle's rebounding is the true representation of his rebounding ability. Additionally, he is a similarly worthless defender, is an infinitely worse passer, and is bad at getting to the free-throw line.

I'm sorry, but the idea that Naz Reid is some high-impact player just isn't true.

[babyjax13]

Prior to this off-season I always wondered what Randle would look like in the Heat's "Culture". Randle is a talented player but I always felt he needed someone to rein him in. Miami seems to provide a much more structured environment and I felt like Jimmy would be someone who would be unafraid to push back against some of Randle's ways.

On the court he could have filled a hole at the 4 while providing someone to help carry the load in the regular season if Jimmy was taking it easy. Bam could cover some of his defensive weaknesses. Looking at how the Wolves are currently trying to use DDV and their lack of a true backup center I wonder if it would have been a better idea this off-season to potentially attempt a 3 team deal between Minny/NY/MIA. Maybe something like

Miami gets Randle
NY gets KAT
Minny gets Herro, Robinson, picks

I'm not sure how many more picks Minny could have been extracted from either NY or Miami but I feel like Herro fills the role of scorer/shooter/facilitator better than DDV. DDV is obviously a better contract but not exactly a great fit in an on-ball creator role so far and his reputation as a defender is a bit overstated at times. Robinson is injury prone but he might do well in a smaller backup role to Rudy with Reid getting spot minutes there also.

Gobert/Robinson/Reid
Reid/McDaniels
McDaniels/NAW
Edwards/Herro
Conley/Dillingham/Herro

Not a splashy return for someone like KAT but I feel like the pieces would have fit much better together and the ages lineup closer to Ant also.

I'm not sure if the Wolves front office would be willing to commit to the money for that group without the ability to just let someone like Randle walk in free agency if he opts-out. I assume they would have gotten extra draft capital for this deal from New York and possibly some more from Miami if they bought low on Herro in the off-season but he is playing well and healthy at the moment. I'm not sure if the Heat would give up anything for Randle now.

Herro seems clearly better and more valuable than Randle to me.

[JayTWill]

Prior to this off-season I always wondered what Randle would look like in the Heat's "Culture". Randle is a talented player but I always felt he needed someone to rein him in. Miami seems to provide a much more structured environment and I felt like Jimmy would be someone who would be unafraid to push back against some of Randle's ways.

On the court he could have filled a hole at the 4 while providing someone to help carry the load in the regular season if Jimmy was taking it easy. Bam could cover some of his defensive weaknesses. Looking at how the Wolves are currently trying to use DDV and their lack of a true backup center I wonder if it would have been a better idea this off-season to potentially attempt a 3 team deal between Minny/NY/MIA. Maybe something like

Miami gets Randle
NY gets KAT
Minny gets Herro, Robinson, picks

I'm not sure how many more picks Minny could have been extracted from either NY or Miami but I feel like Herro fills the role of scorer/shooter/facilitator better than DDV. DDV is obviously a better contract but not exactly a great fit in an on-ball creator role so far and his reputation as a defender is a bit overstated at times. Robinson is injury prone but he might do well in a smaller backup role to Rudy with Reid getting spot minutes there also.

Gobert/Robinson/Reid
Reid/McDaniels
McDaniels/NAW
Edwards/Herro
Conley/Dillingham/Herro

Not a splashy return for someone like KAT but I feel like the pieces would have fit much better together and the ages lineup closer to Ant also.

I'm not sure if the Wolves front office would be willing to commit to the money for that group without the ability to just let someone like Randle walk in free agency if he opts-out. I assume they would have gotten extra draft capital for this deal from New York and possibly some more from Miami if they bought low on Herro in the off-season but he is playing well and healthy at the moment. I'm not sure if the Heat would give up anything for Randle now.

Herro seems clearly better and more valuable than Randle to me.

I'm not sure. Prior to this season I would have still given the edge to Randle as far as on-court impact and trade value. Neither one of them may have been highly valued around the league but Randle was on the shorter deal and just on size alone he can have a bigger impact on the game.

I'm not sure what the difference in value was between KAT and Lillard was. Randle was able to be part of the value in the deal for KAT. I thought the reports were the Heat had trouble finding a team willing to take on Herro in the attempted deal for Lillard.

[redslastlaugh]

Julius Randle to Memphis for Marcus Smart, Jake LaRavia & John Konchar.

Minny would need to open space on the roster, but Memphis moves off Konchar’s multi year deal, gets something for LaRavia who they didn’t pick up his option for next year, and they move on from Smart who is finally showing signs he’s got some gas left in the tank

Randle can be Zach Randolph II for Memphis, playing bulldog bully ball and if he wants to walk after the season then Memphis has cleaned up its books. If Randle fits they can seek to re-sign for a longer term deal

[shrink]

Julius Randle to Memphis for Marcus Smart, Jake LaRavia & John Konchar.

Minny would need to open space on the roster, but Memphis moves off Konchar’s multi year deal, gets something for LaRavia who they didn’t pick up his option for next year, and they move on from Smart who is finally showing signs he’s got some gas left in the tank

Randle can be Zach Randolph II for Memphis, playing bulldog bully ball and if he wants to walk after the season then Memphis has cleaned up its books. If Randle fits they can seek to re-sign for a longer term deal

Why would MIN do this?

[redslastlaugh]

Julius Randle to Memphis for Marcus Smart, Jake LaRavia & John Konchar.

Minny would need to open space on the roster, but Memphis moves off Konchar’s multi year deal, gets something for LaRavia who they didn’t pick up his option for next year, and they move on from Smart who is finally showing signs he’s got some gas left in the tank

Randle can be Zach Randolph II for Memphis, playing bulldog bully ball and if he wants to walk after the season then Memphis has cleaned up its books. If Randle fits they can seek to re-sign for a longer term deal

Why would MIN do this?

Minnesota does it because Smart has stabilized his season and his career. He’s a winning player who helps fill the role Conley plays but less well offensively but way better defensively. LaRavia is playing a ton this year and is one of the best +/- guys on the Grizz. Honestly I’d rather have Jake LaRavia, if he maintains the first 15-20 games level, than Julius Randle if I was trying to win this year, look at his numbers. And then Konchar is the salary match.

[Danimals]

This thread is even more depressing than I expected. It definitely seems a 3 team trade would be needed.

At this point I’d like to trade him for expirings and any picks possible. Then MN use this year to assess all the young guys around Ant.

They also need another vet who can hold Ant accountable. He has insane talent, but takes far too many plays and games off.

Why not keep him and try re-sign him for cheap?

It took KAT and Gobert a year to align.

Even if we consider Kat and Randle as equal talents, the fit with Randle is horrible. He can’t shoot or defend, plays way too slowly, pushes Naz out of position, and needs the ball in his hands to produce. We want the ball in Ant’s hands. Naz defends and shoots better, pushes the pace, plays off ball, and will cost less. The last thing I want is to keep Randle past the trade deadline.

[Danimals]

Julius Randle to Memphis for Marcus Smart, Jake LaRavia & John Konchar.

Minny would need to open space on the roster, but Memphis moves off Konchar’s multi year deal, gets something for LaRavia who they didn’t pick up his option for next year, and they move on from Smart who is finally showing signs he’s got some gas left in the tank

Randle can be Zach Randolph II for Memphis, playing bulldog bully ball and if he wants to walk after the season then Memphis has cleaned up its books. If Randle fits they can seek to re-sign for a longer term deal

Why would MIN do this?

Minnesota does it because Smart has stabilized his season and his career. He’s a winning player who helps fill the role Conley plays but less well offensively but way better defensively. LaRavia is playing a ton this year and is one of the best +/- guys on the Grizz. Honestly I’d rather have Jake LaRavia, if he maintains the first 15-20 games level, than Julius Randle if I was trying to win this year, look at his numbers. And then Konchar is the salary match.

This trade doesn’t accomplish any of the Wolves stated needs. Maybe there is an argument that Smart is and upgrade, but the fit is bad. They need shooting and offensive creation from the PG position. Smart does neither better than Wolves current options.