At what point do Lakers fans owe Darvin Ham an apology?

[MikeJax]

JJ is a far superior coach than Darvin. He's quick to make lineup changes and experiment, something Ham is not known for. His Xs and Os are way better. I also like how JJ is putting the ball in Lebron's hands which is the same strategy as the lone Vogel championship year.

Note* I know I harp a lot about stats, but I think this is a clear example of why stats don't tell the whole story. Ham and JJ have the same record, but that is not an accurate assessment of how they are as coaches. There are a multitude of factors that make a great coach; relying on stats alone ignores these factors.

I'm not convinced about your opinion

Which part?

Knetch is already in the starting lineup. Under Ham, I doubt he'll get any real minutes. JJ completely overhauled the Xs and Os. I mean, if you want to deep dive in the plays we can do that. His IQ is much higher than Ham's.

Knetch is already in the starting lineup. Under Ham, I doubt he'll get any real minutes.

Explain please

JJ completely overhauled the Xs and Os.

Explain please

[Lo Wang]

I'm not convinced about your opinion

Which part?

Knetch is already in the starting lineup. Under Ham, I doubt he'll get any real minutes. JJ completely overhauled the Xs and Os. I mean, if you want to deep dive in the plays we can do that. His IQ is much higher than Ham's.

Knetch is already in the starting lineup. Under Ham, I doubt he'll get any real minutes.

Explain please

JJ completely overhauled the Xs and Os.

Explain please

I made my point. It is your turn to argue your point. You can't just say you disagree without explaining why.

Once you provide a counter argument, I can argue from there. That's how an discussion works.

Saying you disagree with a 1 liner is not a legitimate argument.

[Sixers in 4]

Jerry West didn't even get an apology I think Ham will be waiting for a long time.

[MikeJax]

Which part?

Knetch is already in the starting lineup. Under Ham, I doubt he'll get any real minutes. JJ completely overhauled the Xs and Os. I mean, if you want to deep dive in the plays we can do that. His IQ is much higher than Ham's.

Knetch is already in the starting lineup. Under Ham, I doubt he'll get any real minutes.

Explain please

JJ completely overhauled the Xs and Os.

Explain please

I made my point. It is your turn to argue your point. You can't just say you disagree without explaining why.

Once you provide a counter argument, I can argue from there. That's how an discussion works.

Saying you disagree with a 1 liner is not a legitimate argument.

But i'm just trying to understand exactly why you think he's a better coach? I didn't say i was smarter
or anything, just trying to understand why you think ham wouldn't give knecht minutes and the x's and o's thing.

[ITYSL]

*chuckles in Adrian Griffin*

[Lo Wang]

There are many reasons why I think he is a better coach that stats (wins/losses) don't cover the full spectrum. It doesn't measure what goes on behind the scenes, rotations, Xs and Os, timeout usage, etc.

What impresses me the most is how he commands the team. All players are on board with his coaching, which is a huge compliment to Lebron because he's the reason why everyone is bought in. Knetch started against the Thunder and had an incredible game; before that, the Lakers experimented with a line up that did not include DLo. Ham rode the DLo train all year long and rarely experimented.

The Xs and Os are bar none so much better. Going to Davis as the primary scorer and Lebron as facilitator is a recipe that works. Regulating DLo to the bench so Reeves can have more touches is a smart move. The Knetch in the starting lineup is a risky move but it's paying off. He could be their best scorer.

[mademan]

Which part?

Knetch is already in the starting lineup. Under Ham, I doubt he'll get any real minutes. JJ completely overhauled the Xs and Os. I mean, if you want to deep dive in the plays we can do that. His IQ is much higher than Ham's.

Knetch is already in the starting lineup. Under Ham, I doubt he'll get any real minutes.

Explain please

JJ completely overhauled the Xs and Os.

Explain please

I made my point. It is your turn to argue your point. You can't just say you disagree without explaining why.

Once you provide a counter argument, I can argue from there. That's how an discussion works.

Saying you disagree with a 1 liner is not a legitimate argument.

I remember one of Lakers fans biggest gripe with Ham being that he experimented too much and wouldnt stick to the lineup that got them to the conference finals. Im not sure why Knecht wouldnt get a chance in the starting lineup under Ham, especially when Rui was injured

[mademan]

There are many reasons why I think he is a better coach that stats (wins/losses) don't cover the full spectrum. It doesn't measure what goes on behind the scenes, rotations, Xs and Os, timeout usage, etc.

What impresses me the most is how he commands the team. All players are on board with his coaching, which is a huge compliment to Lebron because he's the reason why everyone is bought in. Knetch started against the Thunder and had an incredible game; before that, the Lakers experimented with a line up that did not include DLo. Ham rode the DLo train all year long and rarely experimented.

The Xs and Os are bar none so much better. Going to Davis as the primary scorer and Lebron as facilitator is a recipe that works. Regulating DLo to the bench so Reeves can have more touches is a smart move. The Knetch in the starting lineup is a risky move but it's paying off. He could be their best scorer.

This is the opposite of the truth and revisionist history. Ham inserted Cam into the SL and experimented with both Dlo and Reaves off the bench

[Lo Wang]

There are many reasons why I think he is a better coach that stats (wins/losses) don't cover the full spectrum. It doesn't measure what goes on behind the scenes, rotations, Xs and Os, timeout usage, etc.

What impresses me the most is how he commands the team. All players are on board with his coaching, which is a huge compliment to Lebron because he's the reason why everyone is bought in. Knetch started against the Thunder and had an incredible game; before that, the Lakers experimented with a line up that did not include DLo. Ham rode the DLo train all year long and rarely experimented.

The Xs and Os are bar none so much better. Going to Davis as the primary scorer and Lebron as facilitator is a recipe that works. Regulating DLo to the bench so Reeves can have more touches is a smart move. The Knetch in the starting lineup is a risky move but it's paying off. He could be their best scorer.

This is the opposite of the truth and revisionist history. Ham inserted Cam into the SL and experimented with both Dlo and Reaves off the bench

I'm not revising history. Sure, Ham experimented but his core lineup included DLo in it and it didnt change all that much. They should have gotten rid of him a long time ago. Inserting Knetch over DLo is a pretty risky move considering he's a rookie.

[mademan]

There are many reasons why I think he is a better coach that stats (wins/losses) don't cover the full spectrum. It doesn't measure what goes on behind the scenes, rotations, Xs and Os, timeout usage, etc.

What impresses me the most is how he commands the team. All players are on board with his coaching, which is a huge compliment to Lebron because he's the reason why everyone is bought in. Knetch started against the Thunder and had an incredible game; before that, the Lakers experimented with a line up that did not include DLo. Ham rode the DLo train all year long and rarely experimented.

The Xs and Os are bar none so much better. Going to Davis as the primary scorer and Lebron as facilitator is a recipe that works. Regulating DLo to the bench so Reeves can have more touches is a smart move. The Knetch in the starting lineup is a risky move but it's paying off. He could be their best scorer.

This is the opposite of the truth and revisionist history. Ham inserted Cam into the SL and experimented with both Dlo and Reaves off the bench

I'm not revising history. Sure, Ham experimented but his core lineup included DLo in it and it didnt change all that much. They should have gotten rid of him a long time ago. Inserting Knetch over DLo is a pretty risky move considering he's a rookie.

He literally went with the same SL for a decent stretch and got heavily critiqued for it (Reaves-Cam-Lebron-Rui-AD)

[Lo Wang]

This is the opposite of the truth and revisionist history. Ham inserted Cam into the SL and experimented with both Dlo and Reaves off the bench

I'm not revising history. Sure, Ham experimented but his core lineup included DLo in it and it didnt change all that much. They should have gotten rid of him a long time ago. Inserting Knetch over DLo is a pretty risky move considering he's a rookie.

He literally went with the same SL for a decent stretch and got heavily critiqued for it (Reaves-Cam-Lebron-Rui-AD)

I understand your point, but JJ's Xs and Os are completely different. He took out DLo to give more touches to Reeves and to hand over the play making duties to Lebron. The point of attack is AD. Now they have a sniper in Knetch. This team is by far a much better team despite the record.

[mademan]

I'm not revising history. Sure, Ham experimented but his core lineup included DLo in it and it didnt change all that much. They should have gotten rid of him a long time ago. Inserting Knetch over DLo is a pretty risky move considering he's a rookie.

He literally went with the same SL for a decent stretch and got heavily critiqued for it (Reaves-Cam-Lebron-Rui-AD)

I understand your point, but JJ's Xs and Os are completely different. He took out DLo to give more touches to Reeves and to hand over the play making duties to Lebron. The point of attack is AD. Now they have a sniper in Knetch. This team is by far a much better team despite the record.

They currently hold a negative point differential and are a bottom 5 defensive team. By almost every measure, the Lakers are currently worse

Absolutely hilarious to me that JJ is getting credit and praise for the exact same thing Ham was critiqued for.

[SkyBill40]

This just goes to show, as it always does, the PLAYERS are ultimately responsible for what happens on the court. The coach is just a guy that calls plays when there's a time out or stoppage in play. He has no bearing whatsoever on the outcome but is the one always held responsible. It's BS and always will be.

The Lakers will come and go in whatever fashion so long as LeBron James is still on the roster and calling the shots. He doesn't have the nickname of "LeGM" without reason.

Redick, Ham, whoever doesn't matter. Even if Phil Jackson came back, the outcome wouldn't change a bit.

Sent from my SM-F936U using RealGM mobile app

[giberish]

I think the difference between good and bad coaches isn't that big in the NBA. Outside of situations where a guy just completely loses a roster there's not going to be a massive difference.

Also, while fans of every team can be guilty of this, Lakers fans are especially prone to overrating the quality of their roster. Partly just from being the Lakers and partly from the marquee star talent on the team. Overrating the roster talent leads to unrealistic expectations and coaches getting the blame.

[Karmaloop]

God what a loser that you are, please explain.

Can't argue the point, so might as well attack the poster, right?

[brutalitops]

Darvin couldn't get Washington to give him assets+JV for Rui/Dlo and let them shed salary to land another player this off season. That's his biggest crime

Hell, the Lakers probably did everything they could this off-season bar somehow forcing a top 3 player in history to take a 50m dollar paycut per year in terms of advancing the roster. Dalton was literally the type of player they needed. They got him, he is a rookie who was picked between 10-20 so it's unfair to expect him to be a above average NBA player within 20 games

Unless they truly believe that they are in the hunt. I would be trying to shed salary/source whatever value you can from roster spot 4-12 and buying low on potential home run swings like offering Dlo/Rui/JHS/Vincent/Wood and an unprotected pick for Vuc/Lavine and hope you can pick up a minimum guys next year to get a deep enough bench to give LeBron one more go.

[Black Jack]

We need a Darvin Ham Theory column from Simmons

When a seemingly terrible coach turns out to have been absolutely league average based on his successor having the exact same record with the team the next year

[Karmaloop]

Also, let's put something into perspective. The Lakers were 24-25 going into the month of February last season, and finished the season 23-10. But to cherry pick after a 5 game stretch playing against 4 playoff teams seems odd at best.

[Black Jack]

Darvin couldn't get Washington to give him assets+JV for Rui/Dlo and let them shed salary to land another player this off season. That's his biggest crime

Hell, the Lakers probably did everything they could this off-season bar somehow forcing a top 3 player in history to take a 50m dollar paycut per year in terms of advancing the roster. Dalton was literally the type of player they needed. They got him, he is a rookie who was picked between 10-20 so it's unfair to expect him to be a above average NBA player within 20 games

Unless they truly believe that they are in the hunt. I would be trying to shed salary/source whatever value you can from roster spot 4-12 and buying low on potential home run swings like offering Dlo/Rui/JHS/Vincent/Wood and an unprotected pick for Vuc/Lavine and hope you can pick up a minimum guys next year to get a deep enough bench to give LeBron one more go.

Marc Eversley is that you

[Perishable517]

lol what? Ham is possibly the biggest moron in any NBA coaching staff today.

Lakers struggling has nothing to do with JJ. Anybody that actually watches these games can attest to that. It’s not his fault LeBron is finally showing his age and teammates like Reaves and DLO are crapping the bed while also trying to ice Knecht since Reaves is not Lakers fans’s favorite white boy anymore. JJ is making the best out of the situation.

You think Bucks fans are happy having Ham right now?

I'm only one guy but he certainly has not been a detriment.

I know he was welcome back.

Sent from my CPH2417 using RealGM mobile app