Official NBA General Discussion 2024-25 V1.0

[Basketball_Jones]

Jordi Fernandez got the Nets at 9-10 with some huge road wins

Dennis has the keys to the franchise and is killing their tank lol

[GP2]

Jordi Fernandez got the Nets at 9-10 with some huge road wins

Dennis has the keys to the franchise and is killing their tank lol

The menace!

[sidsid]

Yes, depending on how close or over the tax threshold they want to be nick season, they could pickup Fred's option. But why trade assets for Yak, when he is then only a helper for the rest of this season and next, and then becomes a problem 2 seasons from now when they need to pay their other guys?

The absolute deal breaker for the Rockets when they were negotiating with Fred was a 3rd year. They relented with a team option. That's because they had roadmapped their plans years in advance.

Trading for those Suns picks is also a transparent signal of intention. Fred's expiring is for a star trade if they plan on going over the tax.

There are situations where they could trigger the team option, but they all revolve around that initial intention. They have a deal in mind that can possibly be done before the draft, or gambling to make it happen after. If they are taking that gamble, but can't seal the deal right away, I think they then pivot to dumping some of Green's salary to avoid the tax as they continue to shop Fred's expiring until the deadline.

Yep. This is why I can see rebuilding teams do more and more signings like the Rockets did with Fred. It was kinda genius. They can trade him and his salary this season or next and pick up a star for ONLY FUTURES without destroying their current depth.

OKC doesn't have a salary like that on the books. So if they try to get a star....they would have to lose alot more CURRENT assets (that already help get wins) in the trade package to match salaries.

The Rockets could conceivably add a high end allstar player while ONLY losing Fred from the current roster.

Works for the player involved too. Fred gets about 30 to 40 million more dollars than he's actually worth during the term. The team gets a player who will help prospect development rather than seek his own allstar stats plus a key salary for trading purposes.

Too late in the process for the raps to do something similar. The team needs to do it BEFORE their prospects sign their first big extensions.

OKC is a bad example here. Hartenstein basically signed the Fred contract, but for a contender instead of a rebuilding team. Balloon payments, fills a temporary hole, will be let go when two rookies get the max. The Giannis/Embiid talks only need to include him and one of their role player contracts and a boatload of picks. Isaiah Joe is fine and all, but I don't think they'll cry about it.

To the larger point about rebuilds, the Rockets were in a unique situation. They didn't have their picks and couldn't tank anymore even if they wanted to. Incentives were there to spend money on vets (missed out on Brook). The league rules now mandate that you have to spend on players to the floor instead of leaving it as cap for potential future trades, but most rebuilds would likely just want to get assets back for bad contracts if they could (look at how the new MLE rules have played out). The Spurs aren't regretting that pick swap to take on Harrison.

[AbC?]

Early returns from Isaiah Hartenstein have been great for the Thunder, which should come as no surprise.

15/13/3, 2 blocks on 57% shooting, after running JDub out there at center for 6 games he's been a welcome relief for them. When Chet comes back they'll have the flexibility to go big or small depending on matchups.

Great free agent signing by Presti, amazing that he was able to add a starting caliber center without trading a lottery pick.

[Spates]

Early returns from Isaiah Hartenstein have been great for the Thunder, which should come as no surprise.

15/13/3, 2 blocks on 57% shooting, after running JDub out there at center for 6 games he's been a welcome relief for them. When Chet comes back they'll have the flexibility to go big or small depending on matchups.

Great free agent signing by Presti, amazing that he was able to add a starting caliber center without trading a lottery pick.

Fantastic acquisition. He was great in NY and solid for the Clippers

[WuTang_CMB]

That bridges deal is horrendous lol

[mdenny]

The Rockets next 10 games are really soft except for OkC tomorrow night. They could go 9-1 or 8-2 and end up in the first seed.

I'm saying....the better they do, the better chance they give us a king's ransom for poetl. It'd be so much smarter for them to add solid role pieces and extend their window and options then cash everything in for a star player.

[Los_29]

Early returns from Isaiah Hartenstein have been great for the Thunder, which should come as no surprise.

15/13/3, 2 blocks on 57% shooting, after running JDub out there at center for 6 games he's been a welcome relief for them. When Chet comes back they'll have the flexibility to go big or small depending on matchups.

Great free agent signing by Presti, amazing that he was able to add a starting caliber center without trading a lottery pick.

Only cost them $35 million a year.

[mdenny]

The absolute deal breaker for the Rockets when they were negotiating with Fred was a 3rd year. They relented with a team option. That's because they had roadmapped their plans years in advance.

Trading for those Suns picks is also a transparent signal of intention. Fred's expiring is for a star trade if they plan on going over the tax.

There are situations where they could trigger the team option, but they all revolve around that initial intention. They have a deal in mind that can possibly be done before the draft, or gambling to make it happen after. If they are taking that gamble, but can't seal the deal right away, I think they then pivot to dumping some of Green's salary to avoid the tax as they continue to shop Fred's expiring until the deadline.

Yep. This is why I can see rebuilding teams do more and more signings like the Rockets did with Fred. It was kinda genius. They can trade him and his salary this season or next and pick up a star for ONLY FUTURES without destroying their current depth.

OKC doesn't have a salary like that on the books. So if they try to get a star....they would have to lose alot more CURRENT assets (that already help get wins) in the trade package to match salaries.

The Rockets could conceivably add a high end allstar player while ONLY losing Fred from the current roster.

Works for the player involved too. Fred gets about 30 to 40 million more dollars than he's actually worth during the term. The team gets a player who will help prospect development rather than seek his own allstar stats plus a key salary for trading purposes.

Too late in the process for the raps to do something similar. The team needs to do it BEFORE their prospects sign their first big extensions.

OKC is a bad example here. Hartenstein basically signed the Fred contract, but for a contender instead of a rebuilding team. Balloon payments, fills a temporary hole, will be let go when two rookies get the max. The Giannis/Embiid talks only need to include him and one of their role player contracts and a boatload of picks. Isaiah Joe is fine and all, but I don't think they'll cry about it.

To the larger point about rebuilds, the Rockets were in a unique situation. They didn't have their picks and couldn't tank anymore even if they wanted to. Incentives were there to spend money on vets (missed out on Brook). The league rules now mandate that you have to spend on players to the floor instead of leaving it as cap for potential future trades, but most rebuilds would likely just want to get assets back for bad contracts if they could (look at how the new MLE rules have played out). The Spurs aren't regretting that pick swap to take on Harrison.

Thanks for correcting me. You are spot on in saying the Hartenstien deal is essentially the exact same thing as the Fred deal was for the Rockets.

[mdenny]

Early returns from Isaiah Hartenstein have been great for the Thunder, which should come as no surprise.

15/13/3, 2 blocks on 57% shooting, after running JDub out there at center for 6 games he's been a welcome relief for them. When Chet comes back they'll have the flexibility to go big or small depending on matchups.

Great free agent signing by Presti, amazing that he was able to add a starting caliber center without trading a lottery pick.

Only cost them $35 million a year.

It doesn't matter the value. It's the term that makes it a stroke of genius. It could've been 45 and that would've been BETTER.

These 2 year bridge deals that massively overpay by teams that are overstocked with prospects awaiting max extensions are frigging BRILLIANT in terms of team building. When it's time to add an allstar vet to a team with 3 to 4 mid 20s prospects....what's the biggest need?

It's an expiring salary that is 35 milly or above thatcca be packaged with futures so that such a trade doesn't deplete depth.

Look for this to be more common going forward.

Thanks for Sidsid in pointing out that the Hartenstien contract plays this role in the OKC window next 3 years.

One of the best features of these overpay bridge deals is that they are "expiring contracts" two years in a row.

Fred is a 40 million expiring contract this year....and also next year.

[Duffman100]

Early returns from Isaiah Hartenstein have been great for the Thunder, which should come as no surprise.

15/13/3, 2 blocks on 57% shooting, after running JDub out there at center for 6 games he's been a welcome relief for them. When Chet comes back they'll have the flexibility to go big or small depending on matchups.

Great free agent signing by Presti, amazing that he was able to add a starting caliber center without trading a lottery pick.

Only cost them $35 million a year.

It doesn't matter the value. It's the term that makes it a stroke of genius. It could've been 45 and that would've been BETTER.

These 2 year bridge deals that massively overpay by teams that are overstocked with prospects awaiting max extensions are frigging BRILLIANT in terms of team building. When it's time to add an allstar vet to a team with 3 to 4 mid 20s prospects....what's the biggest need?

It's an expiring salary that is 35 milly or above thatcca be packaged with futures so that such a trade doesn't deplete depth.

Look for this to be more common going forward.

Thanks for Sidsid in pointing out that the Hartenstien contract plays this role in the OKC window next 3 years.

One of the best features of these overpay bridge deals is that they are "expiring contracts" two years in a row.

Fred is a 40 million expiring contract this year....and also next year.

But aren't you talking two different things.

The bridge deals help you until you have to dedicate max money to those prospects.

You use the bridge deal to acquire a highly paid vet.

Won't the max money of the prospects make the 2nd one harder will all the CBA logic?

[mdenny]

Only cost them $35 million a year.

It doesn't matter the value. It's the term that makes it a stroke of genius. It could've been 45 and that would've been BETTER.

These 2 year bridge deals that massively overpay by teams that are overstocked with prospects awaiting max extensions are frigging BRILLIANT in terms of team building. When it's time to add an allstar vet to a team with 3 to 4 mid 20s prospects....what's the biggest need?

It's an expiring salary that is 35 milly or above thatcca be packaged with futures so that such a trade doesn't deplete depth.

Look for this to be more common going forward.

Thanks for Sidsid in pointing out that the Hartenstien contract plays this role in the OKC window next 3 years.

One of the best features of these overpay bridge deals is that they are "expiring contracts" two years in a row.

Fred is a 40 million expiring contract this year....and also next year.

But aren't you talking two different things.

The bridge deals help you until you have to dedicate max money to those prospects.

You use the bridge deal to acquire a highly paid vet.

Won't the max money of the prospects make the 2nd one harder will all the CBA logic?

I don't understand your point.

The Rockets can trade trade Fred and futures for Giannis or KD.

OKC can do pretty much the same with Hartenstien.

Rebuking teams need at least ONE big expiring contract for flexibility. And when you sign for a team option it means two seasons of expiring contract.

[Duffman100]

It doesn't matter the value. It's the term that makes it a stroke of genius. It could've been 45 and that would've been BETTER.

These 2 year bridge deals that massively overpay by teams that are overstocked with prospects awaiting max extensions are frigging BRILLIANT in terms of team building. When it's time to add an allstar vet to a team with 3 to 4 mid 20s prospects....what's the biggest need?

It's an expiring salary that is 35 milly or above thatcca be packaged with futures so that such a trade doesn't deplete depth.

Look for this to be more common going forward.

Thanks for Sidsid in pointing out that the Hartenstien contract plays this role in the OKC window next 3 years.

One of the best features of these overpay bridge deals is that they are "expiring contracts" two years in a row.

Fred is a 40 million expiring contract this year....and also next year.

But aren't you talking two different things.

The bridge deals help you until you have to dedicate max money to those prospects.

You use the bridge deal to acquire a highly paid vet.

Won't the max money of the prospects make the 2nd one harder will all the CBA logic?

I don't understand your point.

The Rockets can trade trade Fred and futures for Giannis or KD.

OKC can do pretty much the same with Hartenstien.

Rebuking teams need at least ONE big expiring contract for flexibility. And when you sign for a team option it means two seasons of expiring contract.

I thought you were saying a big advantage of the bridge deals was to free up cap space to sign those max rookies.

But then you're saying you trade the bridge deal for a player that would take up that cap space.

Thats where I'm confused.

[mdenny]

But aren't you talking two different things.

The bridge deals help you until you have to dedicate max money to those prospects.

You use the bridge deal to acquire a highly paid vet.

Won't the max money of the prospects make the 2nd one harder will all the CBA logic?

I don't understand your point.

The Rockets can trade trade Fred and futures for Giannis or KD.

OKC can do pretty much the same with Hartenstien.

Rebuking teams need at least ONE big expiring contract for flexibility. And when you sign for a team option it means two seasons of expiring contract.

I thought you were saying a big advantage of the bridge deals was to free up cap space to sign those max rookies.

But then you're saying you trade the bridge deal for a player that would take up that cap space.

Thats where I'm confused.

You are getting to the essence of it here.

There are no rocket prospects that can't be signed because of commitments to Fred. There are no thunder prospects that can't be signed because of commitment to Hartenstien.

That's REAL team building thinking.

But derrrr If Scottie is 3 for 8 derrrrr he shouldn't take more shots derrrrrr because he might become a 33% shooter if he misses derrrrrrr

[TimeForChange]

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[mdenny]

But aren't you talking two different things.

The bridge deals help you until you have to dedicate max money to those prospects.

You use the bridge deal to acquire a highly paid vet.

Won't the max money of the prospects make the 2nd one harder will all the CBA logic?

I don't understand your point.

The Rockets can trade trade Fred and futures for Giannis or KD.

OKC can do pretty much the same with Hartenstien.

Rebuking teams need at least ONE big expiring contract for flexibility. And when you sign for a team option it means two seasons of expiring contract.

I thought you were saying a big advantage of the bridge deals was to free up cap space to sign those max rookies.

But then you're saying you trade the bridge deal for a player that would take up that cap space.

Thats where I'm confused.

While you have the contract....you have the option to make big trade.

It's like a perpetual expiring contract. It is always expiring.

[PhilBlackson]

Shout out HOU & Jalen Green haters lol the Rockets are surprisingly pretty good this season.

[billy_hoyle]

I don't understand your point.

The Rockets can trade trade Fred and futures for Giannis or KD.

OKC can do pretty much the same with Hartenstien.

Rebuking teams need at least ONE big expiring contract for flexibility. And when you sign for a team option it means two seasons of expiring contract.

I thought you were saying a big advantage of the bridge deals was to free up cap space to sign those max rookies.

But then you're saying you trade the bridge deal for a player that would take up that cap space.

Thats where I'm confused.

You are getting to the essence of it here.

There are no rocket prospects that can't be signed because of commitments to Fred. There are no thunder prospects that can't be signed because of commitment to Hartenstien.

That's REAL team building thinking.

But derrrr If Scottie is 3 for 8 derrrrr he shouldn't take more shots derrrrrr because he might become a 33% shooter if he misses derrrrrrr

As he said:

It's a bridge to a Giannis trade (needed large expiring + the cheap prospects); OR
A bridge Vet that holds the salary spot that will be required to sign those same prospects.

[HumbleRen]

Feel for the Kings fans. Imagine your last major move to upgrade the team was Demar Derozan.

Back to mediocrity for them.

[manjusaka]

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