Is this anybody else's low point as a Bulls fan?

[Hangtime84]

Early 2000s was worst we broke all kinds of records for losing. I rather have a bunch of 'meh' players on the team and get lucky than bunch 'eh' players. Teams that did great stealth tanks Magic and Mavericks. They used analytics in reverse for the sake of development.

[dougthonus]

For me, this particular year isn't more meaningfully dejecting than the whole AK era.

Generally speaking, once we got DeMar/Vuc, I lost all hope in this front office and thought they were incompetent. It then miraculously worked for a few months, and I thought, maybe I'm wrong, at least it will be a fun ride for a couple years before it sucks really bad. The off-season after that when they had the chance to move guys for value and should have had a full realization that this thing wasn't working, but hung on any way, I started losing hope in these guys.

Three years later, its been nothing but hanging on too long to players, watching their value depreciate, missing the playoffs anyway, targeting the wrong things when they do make trades, and trying to dig their way out of the whole with short term moves, slowly making their situation worse and worse. These guys are completely incompetent, and the fact that it worked for a few months was more of a result of luck than vision.

This team is more fun than last year's team, but the fundamental problem remains that they haven't done anything to position the team to be better long term and aren't good enough short term for that to be an acceptable outcome.

[KissedByaRose1]

Last year was lowest point for me personally. No draft pick plus the delusion of AKME had me totally tuned out, i'd be watching 2-3 NBA games a night and wouldn't even bother checking our score. This year with Matas/Giddey/Ball back alone has been at least 5-10% better. Overall AKME has been low point.

Pretty much everything has been tough sledding for us since April 28th 2012. And truly truly awful since the Butler trade. We're due some luck.

[DuckIII]

Nope, not at all.

Do hate the league mandated 3 point spam though.

This is my issue more than anything
"Style makes fights" doesn't exist in this league anymore. It is just 3p spam and watching guys travel and flop. It is rough to watch.

*I just saw a compilation of Ja's "Long Jab Step" and he straight up picks up his back foot when he jab steps. Like BOTH feet are in the air. It is crazy to think that a child has stricter enforcement of the game's rules than the professionals.

I don't have the larger issue with the league that you guys have. At least not to that extent. I actually think the fouling and flopping has been significantly better this season than it has been in awhile. The refs, at least in Bulls games (I rarely watch non-Bulls games except an occasional interesting matchups) have been swallowing their whistle a lot more on that type of crap. And we're seeing less of that crap as a result. This is a major, major upgrade for me from the Harden/Young era which, in my opinion, threatened the integrity and entertainment value of the game.

That said, the 3-ball spam is here to stay until the NBA develops a mathematical solution and implements it or until a team more greatly diversifies its offense and it works. Not sure that will ever happen though. I don't like it, but its not a deal breaker for me.

To some extent I'm desensitized to it I guess. In the last 10 years teams are only shooting 11 more 3s per game and in the last 6 its only gone up 3 attempts per game. Though this year is off to a concerning start with another 2 per game bump (we'll see if that maintains or increases). Its also offset by another development which I like - FTA per game are down 8 per game from 20 years ago.

The big concern with 3s is that its now what kids do and has been for some time. So more and more players will be coming into the league with a more developed 3 ball, at every position. That is why a mathematical solution rather than a strategic solution from coaches is the most likely cure.

P.S. The long jab step thing is funny. My 8th grader has a first step move he uses in which he sometimes has both feet off the ground right before he dribbles it, which is of course a travel. It gets called every single time. Every time. As it should. I don't think NBA refs even look for stuff like that anymore. But I also think it happens so infrequently spread out over the course of all plays that I just don't care that much from an entertainment perspective.

[League Circles]

I've pretty much been at a stable low point since summer 2016

[DuckIII]

For me, this particular year isn't more meaningfully dejecting than the whole AK era.

Generally speaking, once we got DeMar/Vuc, I lost all hope in this front office and thought they were incompetent. It then miraculously worked for a few months, and I thought, maybe I'm wrong, at least it will be a fun ride for a couple years before it sucks really bad. The off-season after that when they had the chance to move guys for value and should have had a full realization that this thing wasn't working, but hung on any way, I started losing hope in these guys.

Three years later, its been nothing but hanging on too long to players, watching their value depreciate, missing the playoffs anyway, targeting the wrong things when they do make trades, and trying to dig their way out of the whole with short term moves, slowly making their situation worse and worse. These guys are completely incompetent, and the fact that it worked for a few months was more of a result of luck than vision.

This team is more fun than last year's team, but the fundamental problem remains that they haven't done anything to position the team to be better long term and aren't good enough short term for that to be an acceptable outcome.

I completely agree. You and I were two of the only posters who hated the Vuc trade and what it signified. But as with all moves I try to be patient and see what happens. At the time I wrote that the only way to make a quick rebuild work with Vuc and Zach was to get Lonzo Ball - and only Lonzo Ball. The way I phrased it was that AKME had not ruined the franchise (yet) but had made the path to success so narrow that there was zero margin for error.

Point is, I don't think that 50 game run was luck. I think it was Ball. It worked because he worked. He was that perfect for what we needed. Without him, it was like baking a cake and forgetting the flour. Regardless, that team was not a contender.

The unforgivable sin that doomed the Bulls for a decade was not recognizing what was screamingly obvious to many in real time and shift once it was clear Ball was done. That failure, and the repeated doubling down on that failure, killed my hope that this FO could ever build anything that matters. A bad team doesn''t kill my hope. Grossly incompetent management does. And for the 1.3 seasons prior to this one I had no hope at all. And even now I have very little. I still think its entirely possible these morons decide to trade Zo, Vuc and Zach for "veterans who can compete right now."

[dougthonus]

I completely agree. You and I were two of the only posters who hated the Vuc trade and what it signified. But as with all moves I try to be patient and see what happens. At the time I wrote that the only way to make a quick rebuild work with Vuc and Zach was to get Lonzo Ball - and only Lonzo Ball. The way I phrased it was that AKME had not ruined the franchise (yet) but had made the path to success so narrow that there was zero margin for error.

Point is, I don't think that 50 game run was luck. I think it was Ball. It worked because he worked. He was that perfect for what we needed. Without him, it was like baking a cake and forgetting the flour. Regardless, that team was not a contender.

The unforgivable sin that doomed the Bulls for a decade was not recognizing what was screamingly obvious to many in real time and shift once it was clear Ball was done. That failure, and the repeated doubling down on that failure, killed my hope that this FO could ever build anything that matters. A bad team doesn''t kill my hope. Grossly incompetent management does. And for the 1.3 seasons prior to this one I had no hope at all. And even now I have very little. I still think its entirely possible these morons decide to trade Zo, Vuc and Zach for "veterans who can compete right now."

My only real quibble with this is that if Lonzo Ball was that good (and maybe he is), then getting Lonzo and not getting Vuc/DeMar still would be a better outcome. In this scenario, Lonzo would unlock all kinds of players.

Trading for Vuc also was the precursor to letting Lauri go. What if we had Lonzo unlocking Zach + Lauri + WCJ and then still had Coby White and now 3 more 1sts to add to the team (Dalen Terry was one of those 3, but we're picking in a different spot so probably get someone else now).

[LateNight]

It's bad but is it any worse than the dynasty getting broken up or Rose's injury?

They also still had a good squad and made the playoffs. Those teams were way more fun to watch. Even is the Nate Robinson time. And when the Rose era officially ended, we still had Jimmy.

Even with rose’s injury, we had teams that were fun to watch and competitive. Prime Noah - hard playing guys like Taj, Kirk, Butler - even the Free Agents -Pau, Nate, Dunleavy - were all awesome to watch. We had an actual culture under Thibs

[samwana]

The last few years, basically since the Donovan AKME hiring has been bad for me. There is no one to really root for, it's bland boring and spiritless 'gegurke' (for those who understand some German)
I like Matas and I would watch a little more when there would be some fun or excitement, but to me BD is a fun killer and AKME is not very inspiring leadership. Rutherless ship. Wake my fandom when BD is gone, I will have a quick look if it gets better, if not I will be back watching some highlights here and there not more. I will definitely not pay for this.

3 point spamming isn't very exciting either btw.

Even the lows early 2000s were better at least there was hope Krause would play his magic again. He had good ideas, but not the reputation to pull out off. The media weren't nice to him. I don't know why they are so mild with AKME and BD. And the Noah years even without Rose were always interesting. Noah was charismatic one of my all time favourite players! Nate the great, Thibs controverse, there was so much going on all the time, positive and negative but interesting. Now? Not so much, nothing to get excited about and nothing to get really upset. Just nothing, no emotion no nothing.

[burlydee]

I stopped watching completely in the early 2000s until Hinrich became a minor thing. Rose's injury struggles were particularly bad for me, just a depressing time to be a Bulls fan.

The Boylen years were a low point. Bad coaching, checked out management. When it became apparent Lauri wasn't going to be a star here, it all seemed rudderless.

I felt like last year was worse than this one. I feel like thus team is finally transitioning. Not much talent but at least an acknowledgement it's time to trade vets. I don't have a lot of faith in management which I think is probably the biggest source of consternation. The org hasn't landed a top tier player since Jimmy.

[DuckIII]

I completely agree. You and I were two of the only posters who hated the Vuc trade and what it signified. But as with all moves I try to be patient and see what happens. At the time I wrote that the only way to make a quick rebuild work with Vuc and Zach was to get Lonzo Ball - and only Lonzo Ball. The way I phrased it was that AKME had not ruined the franchise (yet) but had made the path to success so narrow that there was zero margin for error.

Point is, I don't think that 50 game run was luck. I think it was Ball. It worked because he worked. He was that perfect for what we needed. Without him, it was like baking a cake and forgetting the flour. Regardless, that team was not a contender.

The unforgivable sin that doomed the Bulls for a decade was not recognizing what was screamingly obvious to many in real time and shift once it was clear Ball was done. That failure, and the repeated doubling down on that failure, killed my hope that this FO could ever build anything that matters. A bad team doesn''t kill my hope. Grossly incompetent management does. And for the 1.3 seasons prior to this one I had no hope at all. And even now I have very little. I still think its entirely possible these morons decide to trade Zo, Vuc and Zach for "veterans who can compete right now."

My only real quibble with this is that if Lonzo Ball was that good (and maybe he is), then getting Lonzo and not getting Vuc/DeMar still would be a better outcome. In this scenario, Lonzo would unlock all kinds of players.

Trading for Vuc also was the precursor to letting Lauri go. What if we had Lonzo unlocking Zach + Lauri + WCJ and then still had Coby White and now 3 more 1sts to add to the team (Dalen Terry was one of those 3, but we're picking in a different spot so probably get someone else now).

I agree with all that. I'm just saying that having acquired Vuc, it was the acquisition of Ball that made it work. Certainly getting Ball and not trading for Vuc would have been better. Ball can play with anyone.

[Wingy]

Yup.

This is the most I’ll write about the team…but having given up on the Bulls, I’m also disheartened to see how a good number that remain posting are almost expressing, perhaps unintentionally, something akin to hope…when all AK did was shuffle some deck chairs around, and the team is inexorably steam-rolling toward the same exact results. This year, and for many years to follow. I see through your trash, AK, Reinsdorfs, et al. This past offseason wasn’t progress. Just your usual m.o.

[DuckIII]

Yup.

This is the most I’ll write about the team…but having given up on the Bulls, I’m also disheartened to see how a good number that remain posting are almost expressing, perhaps unintentionally, something akin to hope…when all AK did was shuffle some deck chairs around, and the team is inexorably steam-rolling toward the same exact results. This year, and for many years to follow. I see through your trash, AK, Reinsdorfs, et al. This past offseason wasn’t progress. Just your usual m.o.

It will be clear progress if they follow through on the next step and trade Lavine and Vuc for future looking assets. If that happens, it’s real. Then we just have to hope they are competent enough and patient enough to do it right.

[BahamaBull]

I think last year was my low point. feeling better this season...at least they are playing hard and sometimes fun basketball...i want them to loose as many game as possible so im cool with this season so far.

[lostonbase]

Has there been a high point since Rose blew up his knee? my lowest point was post dynasty, when they won so few games that a win warranted confetti celebrations.

[FriedRise]

Not a championship or bust guy so I purely treat the Bulls as my entertainment escape, but last year was my low point because they stubbornly kept going with the continuity crap without an end in sight. It's like watching the same bad movie 3 times in a row without a break and expecting a different ending.

Stylistically, last year they were bad AND not entertaining. ISO ball non-stop shooting contested middies, and statistically uncompetitive from the jump because they shot so many 2s while the rest of the league played with 3s.

This year, yes they're still bad but a lot more entertaining to watch - mostly because they've revamped things so much it feels like a new team playing a new brand of basketball. They share the ball (5th in apg vs bottom 10 last year) and generally play a modern style of ball. Offensively, they put up a **** ton of points (4th), but they suck so bad defensively (29th) that they're simply not gonna be able to win a lot of games. But this is something I'm 100% fine with.

[JimmyButler21]

Yes, I don't care anymore. Maybe the Bulls have a plan but right this second it doesn't appear to me they have a plan. The organization would rather tread water and make play-in's then go through a much-needed rebuild.

Also much less of an NBA fan than I was growing up. Some of that is the 3 point spam and lack of stars trying in the regular season. Hard to blame them when 20 teams make at least the play-in, and the play-in was the worst thing that happened to a franchise like the Bulls because it gave them a lower carrot to reach.

[Infinity2152]

Not even close for me. Expectations were extremely low for this season to start. Zach, Vuc and Giddey are shooting career highs. That up's their trade value tremendously. Almost all our young players are on very good contracts, except maybe Pat and that's TBD. Whether or not we keep Lonzo, that $20 mill dead hole will be out of our pocket. Everybody predicted defense was going to suck, and it has, but that's no surprise. I was actually hoping Giddey would not look great immediately, makes him much cheaper to re-sign. I wanted a Coby White year 4 and 5, big leap in year 5, hopefully that's what happens. Zach and Vuc will almost certainly be gone to start next season, for those who want them gone. Why would anybody be disappointed with this season thus far? Worse case for us would have been if we accepted whatever garbage offers we got for Vuc and Zach before they rehabbed their value, I'm glad they're still waiting to get an offer that actually makes us better. Offense looks way better, bad defense was kind of expected, and 80% of the team is 25 or younger. Hell, there's even real hope for Ball as a productive player this year, and a cheap re-sign next year. Terry and Phillips look like they might be NBA role players for the first time.

What if Giddey was putting up his offensive and rebounding numbers, but with good defense? Would anybody even be talking about him getting mid-level money?

Zach could be injured again already, Vuc could be shooting like crap, Giddey could be playing like an All-star, getting a max contract this summer, this year could be far worse.

[SirKaiser]

Nope. I was completely disinterested in the team after Rose and then Butler were gone. The bright spot after that was Lavine, but I couldn't be bothered to watch or follow the team again for a few years.

I loved the signing of Derozan and Ball, but it's a shame that injuries happened and other things didn't work out.

Oh yeah, and early 2000s Bulls... couldn't watch that either.

[patryk7754]

I think it’s especially dejecting because there is not clear vision. We don’t want to tank but want to trade all our best players. We should’ve cleaned house two years ago to go full tank for Wemby and now we’re doubling down on the mistake by not tanking for Flagg.

I just don’t like the bulls right now. Still love them but feel like a disappointed friend. Hindsight, it’s probably the rose injury. We were supposed to be competing for titles while taking down the heat. And it was so easy to be a fan of that team. We didn’t feel like it was terrible because there was always hope. There’s no feeling with this team and the AK era