Is Lebron finally washed?

[jbsays]

It's like Jordan on the Wizards. Still a good player, but not as good as in their primes which when they were the best players in the league. I don't think guys like that can step back in to reduced roles.
It's easier for guys who were never elite to do that.

[ConSarnit]

I'm watching GSW-PHX and i specifically look at KD's defensive effort. I believe that LeBron has visibly stopped playing D from 2018 on (of course there have always been plenty excuses), but certainly 2020. He was 34/35 then - KD is 36 now. He is giving all - fighting over screens, contesting, blocking shots. I dont hear anyone making the age excuse for KD. I think that if age starts to impact a players abilities, it should do so on both ends. LeBron has been unique in that he continues to put up great numbers on offense while completely neglecting the other end; also has been picking games to "rest" (mostly against strong opposition) to further improve his season numbers.

I respect KD's way of aging a lot more. Also remember Tim Duncan retiring around 40, still playing defense as good as his abilities allowed. I think this is the only way to really give your team true help. The season results confirm this as well.

Some of this is age and skillset related. KD isn’t tasked with running the offense like LeBron was/is and KD also plays a style that uses less energy on the offensive end. This is of course a testament to KD’s skill level but he can score from the perimeter and midrange and isn’t forced to battle in the post or drive to the rim like LeBron to maintain his offensive output. KD also isn’t running the point and the effort that requires. KD has an easier time on offense (partly due to his skillset and partly due to his role). This allows him to expend more energy on defense. None of this is meant to knock KD but he and Lebron don’t have the same roles on offense and that effects energy available for defensive effort.

[JM00n69]

waiting until the play-in/off to turn it on

This is how it's been for way too long even. As some one how was watching 250-300 games each years it's now mostly just the Playoffs. It's a joke. The league last few years has sent a memo out to the media before the start of the season saying they know they need to crack down on flopping/illegal screens and foul baiting. This season it didn't even last a week. Tatum shuffeled his pivot foot about 8 times after the catch and it ended with a game winning 3 pointer. Sideline ref was right there. Heard of another similar one reported a few days later.

Then come playoffs it's called properly most of the time. Players know they can get away with it ffs and will play differently. They're the top in the world and I can't blame them for cheesing it either. Regular season has turned into a **** watered down product. All star games used to be more serious than these games. Now it's just a meaningless long 82 game season that wears everyone down by playoffs and causes way too many injuries. And the new CBA really **** it as well. I'd rather see OKC/MIN/BOS/CLE keep they're rosters together for 10 years than this forced parity.

[dhsilv2]

No, but he obviously isn't close to the same player he once was. LA is asking him to play too much, a 40 year old shouldn't be leading the team in minutes. Cut his minutes down, give him some games off, and ask him to crank up the defense. He's clearly saving himself for offense but it's become too much. It used to work at times, but now he's having to hold too much back to do his thing on offense. Last night he made some mental mistakes though on those TOs.

Fewer minutes + rest would maximize his impact. 40 year olds need something different.

The issue I have with what you're saying is that we're paying him $48M this year and $52M the next. If you're going to be paid like a top player, you have to have top player production and minutes to make the contract worth it.

If he took a decent paycut like Brady did while he was playing, it would be different story

he's getting paid because of threads like this. Lakers aren't a contender, winning is secondary for them. They want to make money.

[TravisScott55]

Gotta be the GOAT to be putting up 22 8 and 9 and people are calling you washed.

[NCHeels2008]

Finally? His offensive numbers held up for quite a long time, despite still being a turnover machine. But his defensive and hustle have disappeared 5-7 years ago. Anyone who watches the game can clearly see this - if you only look at highlights and box scores than probably not.

I wouldn't quite go that far but he hasn't been the same on defense since either the bubble season or 20-21

[CobraCommander]

Lebron is playing 35 minutes a game- avg 23 8 and 9

If this is washed it’s weird because with those states he would be ROY if he was eligible lol

No, he wouldn't. If you actually watch the games he is clearly down a step. He has a very high usage rate but isn't nearly as effective as he was even a year ago.

Who is the Rookie playing better than LeBron?

Btw everyone has to watch the lakers - they telecast ever damn game so I’m watch Lebron every damn game -

But honestly which rookie is playing better than Lebron???

Instead of attacking me give me the rookie that’s playing better than LeBron - I stand behind if a rookie was giving up 23 8 and 9’they would be rookie of year… give me that guy playing better than LeBron this year- it’s definitely not Sarr for the damn wiz…

[CobraCommander]

Gotta be the GOAT to be putting up 22 8 and 9 and people are calling you washed.

It’s closer to 23 tho and I can’t find the rookie playing better than this washed up 40 year old

[Rust_Cohle]

Gotta be the GOAT to be putting up 22 8 and 9 and people are calling you washed.

No way, if you actually watch his games his impact has dwindled dramatically. Empty numbers at this point. Double three peat is GOAT level.
Also his defense is horrific now

[Rust_Cohle]

Gotta be the GOAT to be putting up 22 8 and 9 and people are calling you washed.

It’s closer to 23 tho and I can’t find the rookie playing better than this washed up 40 year old

This is the worst rookie class in decades

[ShootersShoot]

Ring chasing would only make sense if it improved his GOAT case. However, winning a ring as 3rd or 4th option should be irrelevant in that context. Best to retire with a bit of dignity left imho. Him insisting to play and the league catering to him and the lakers (see the obvious FT situation) is doing everyone in and around the NBA a huge disfavor.

Yea I think he is just about done. I think there is enough mileage to not desire the ring chasing bit.

Im just trying to imagine a 41 year old bron taking the minimum and playing his final yr in cleveland.

That would be a nice ending but considering his personality - which we got to witness for 20+ years now - we know it would all have to be about him and his stats and his son and his entourage, and the Cavs are a competetive team. Honestly they have zero to gain from that move. If they were in rebuild mode, sure. But not when competing for a title, they dont want to have discussions about playing time, shots taken and coaching decisions, dont you think?

By your logic, no contending team should sign a good player because they would have to change their rotations and playing time? So the celts shouldnt have gotten porzingas? The heatles shouldnt have picked up ray allen?
Why would a rebuilding team sign a 41 year old? Doesnt make any sense..
41 yr old bron is probably still an upgrade over wade, let alone okoro or levert. That was the whole premise of my post..bron becoming a role player to chase a ring. The cavs have a need for depth at forward..it very clearly is not an easy no for them especially for the minimum.

[M2J]

He's tired. Won Olympic tournament MVP this Summer. He's too old for that kinda schedule. He's pacing himself and can turn it on, but it's true that his salary shouldn't keep increasing with the cap.

If he were making about 35 million, they'd have a better chance. But... Never going to happen. He's still an all star that would probably still be leading them in the playoffs, so.... Hard to necessarily argue he shouldn't get it.

But no where near washed

[meatwad4343]

He's tired. Won Olympic tournament MVP this Summer. He's too old for that kinda schedule. He's pacing himself and can turn it on, but it's true that his salary shouldn't keep increasing with the cap.

If he were making about 35 million, they'd have a better chance. But... Never going to happen. He's still an all star that would probably still be leading them in the playoffs, so.... Hard to necessarily argue he shouldn't get it.

But no where near washed

He's not leading anyone anywhere. He's second banana to Anthony Davis on a team that will lose in the play in. He's washed.

[IG2]

I'm watching GSW-PHX and i specifically look at KD's defensive effort. I believe that LeBron has visibly stopped playing D from 2018 on (of course there have always been plenty excuses), but certainly 2020.

Yikes. Such an ignorant statement. 2020 was comfortably LeBron's best defensive season since 2016 and if he wasn't actually named LeBron, he would've made the All Defensive Team that year. Lakers were a dominant defense in 2020 (3rd in DRTG) and the only Laker with better on/off defensive splits than LeBron was Caruso. This held true in 2021 too, when Caruso was the only Laker with better defensive splits than LeBron. LeBron's defense didn't really slide until 2022 (age 37).

[Fadeaway_Jumper]

The issue I have with what you're saying is that we're paying him $48M this year and $52M the next. If you're going to be paid like a top player, you have to have top player production and minutes to make the contract worth it.

If he took a decent paycut like Brady did while he was playing, it would be different story

tom brady also had a wife that earned more money than he did. it's a little easier to take a pay cut when your partner is raking in $30+ million a year themselves.

guys like jimmy butler, kawhi, paul george, bradley beal and devin booker are getting paid more than lebron. if you're a stickler to point out unworthwhile contracts lebron is far from one of the worst ones. and depending on what you define as being paid as a "top player", lebron is the 14th highest paid player in the league this year which i don't think is outrageous.

My point is that guys like Butler, Paul George etc are expected to play a lot of minutes because of their pay. If we want a good playoffs seed you need your max contract guys to need to play their worth.

When Tim Duncan was older in 2013, he got paid less than guys like Serge Ibaka, Rondo, even teammate Tony Parker. He could afford to rest because he didn't take up so much of the salary cap. We don't have that luxury with Lebron because we pay him too much

[Capn'O]

It's like Jordan on the Wizards. Still a good player, but not as good as in their primes which when they were the best players in the league. I don't think guys like that can step back in to reduced roles.
It's easier for guys who were never elite to do that.

This is probably the best answer. There's still an argument for a Top-20 level player but not a player that helps you win championships at this point. Your best players need to be able to guard.

And I'm not talking junk. Hell, I'm almost 43 and the thought of running full bore down a basketball court even once is daunting to me. It's just what it is.

[HMFFL]

Lakers/Jazz

This game is like watching two teams practicing.

Jazz are tanking and not even hiding it.

Lebron is just able to take advantage of it without the Jazz being physical with him. He is 0 for 9 from three in the game, 0-15 in his last three point attempts.



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[doogie_hauser]

Next season really should be his swansong as a player. I am glad he made history by breaking Kareem's record and playing with his Son, another title is not going to happen for him

The Lakers have a brilliant young coach in JJ Reddick and an excellent piece to start their rebuild in Knecht.

They should let AD ride out his career as a Laker but try trade other fringe/role players for future picks (Austin Reaves would fetch them a decent first round pick)

Clear cap space and ride it out for a few years will sting, but it has to be done under the new NBA laws of parity and luxury/apron tax tax..

It's impossible to build a contending team simply via Free Agency and the prestige and legacy of the Lakers name/brand any more.

Rich Paul and his meddling have not done the Lakers brand any favours whatsoever. Lakers need to try disassociate him as much as possible once the Lebron era at Hollywood is over.

[Capn'O]

Next season really should be his swansong as a player.

I take a different outlook on this. While it's a bit sad from a fan perspective, if he still loves playing he should do it for as long as he wants to and can get paid to do it. Playing ball professionally is something not many people get to do and he was exceptional at it. And he's going to have to spend the rest of his life not doing this thing that he was once the best at once he hangs 'em up.

But...

Rich Paul and his meddling have not done the Lakers brand any favours whatsoever. Lakers need to try disassociate him as much as possible once the Lebron era at Hollywood is over.

This is absolutely true. From the Lakers perspective it'll be time to cut ties by that point or have him come back on a salary/role that is commensurate with his performance.

[jehosafats]

Been washed since he left MIA. Before probably when he tried to get rid of Spo

That's funny. Lebron 2015-2018 was probably the greatest athlete the world has ever seen.