Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

They lost Tyus and Deni, and I'm betting Jonas and Brogdon are gone by years end, but I'm willing to bet that Kuzma and Poole will be here into next season.

Well, that is the rub to me. Keeping Kuzma and even getting Poole in the first place... sigh.

There will be a lot of silly (yeah, but how do you know they could even trade Kuzma). Or handwaving of Poole was worth the gamble.

Now, if they get another first for Brogdan & a couple of seconds for Jonas - well then - different story.

But maybe that was the plan all along. Keep Poole and Kuzma through the end of their contracts to get good picks in '25, '26 & '27. Maybe they value crappy players for their tank!

Either way, easy to not watch the games right now, so there is that - saves a bunch of time.

Got it. Who could have known Dawkins grand plan all along was to not trade Kuzma for a 1st and trade for Poole because he knew he'd be historically bad last season because he needed to hyperdrive the tank. Simply brilliant.

Sarr at 2 was even more of a masterclass, 6D chess if you will. Sarr ensures we have our own Process until 2031. Thank you Dawkins, and for proving doubters all along. You and Weaver surely will lead us to promised things.

[Kanyewest]

Deni with an and 1 to tie the game against the Mavericks against Dinwiddie https://streamable.com/6ecrzz

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Getting back to Deni, to answer you question AFM...it's not Deni's dreamy eyes and rugged beard that make people like him. It's the fact that he represents playing the right way. Ball movement, defense, rebounding, high effort, high activity...he's the type of player who reinforces good culture. On top of that, he was improving offensively, he was dirt cheap, and still very young. When you have your teams of newly drafted youngins getting their cues from the likes of Poole and Kuzma, who represent forced, selfish basketball, it's very difficult to unteach what they've seen. Now Poole and Kuzma might be great off the court...maybe...but on the court they are bad. And it seems that the front office seriously overvalues Poole/Kuzma for some reason, and that's where I'm cautious. They lost Tyus and Deni, and I'm betting Jonas and Brogdon are gone by years end, but I'm willing to bet that Kuzma and Poole will be here into next season.

Yeah but he played the right way right into a 15 win season. We're talking about an 11 & 6 player like he's some sort of franchise talent instead of the 5th best player on a good team.

Yeah his fault...

On-off numbers for players playing significant minutes on WAS last year as follows:

-Avdija: +6.9
-Kispert: -3.4
-Coulibaly: -4.4
-Kuzma: -4.7
-Poole: -5.4
-Jones: -6.1

So yeah, +10.3 over the next nearest guy.

Deni needs a Derrick White type trade.

Good teams like the Suns or the Knicks could use Avdija.

[DCZards]

I’m rooting for Deni to play well but I’m also rooting for Bub to excel and for Brogdon and the picks we got in the trade to yield additional talent for the Zards.

I believe the trade could turn out to be a win for both teams.

Does that make me a Dawkins acolyte?

[AFM]

You're nothing but a Dawkins acolyte and a front runner. Hilarious how you're bumping this thread after Deni was moved to the bench again but had nothing to say when he started the previous game. Hope you don't mind but I'm going to have to move you to my block list. Good day to you sir, also does anyone know which screen printing company will print out a full sized body pillow with Deni's face on it?

[Dark Faze]

He's starting to round out more into the player he was last year for us. The big problem is he just won't shoot enough. I refuse to blame coaching. Even with last years roster he only managed 10.7 shots a night with a complete green light.

It reminds me a lot of the Otto Porter situation. Obviously Otto was far more efficient offensively. He was so efficient that it was clear he could take quite a few more shots per game and even if it affected his percentages he would still likely be more efficient than anyone else on the roster. Obviously that's not Deni, but he's creating a ceiling for himself as a player if 10 shots a night is generally all he's comfortable with as a player.

[dckingsfan]

He's starting to round out more into the player he was last year for us. The big problem is he just won't shoot enough. I refuse to blame coaching. Even with last years roster he only managed 10.7 shots a night with a complete green light.

It reminds me a lot of the Otto Porter situation. Obviously Otto was far more efficient offensively. He was so efficient that it was clear he could take quite a few more shots per game and even if it affected his percentages he would still likely be more efficient than anyone else on the roster. Obviously that's not Deni, but he's creating a ceiling for himself as a player if 10 shots a night is generally all he's comfortable with as a player.

Yup. And his numbers would be well past last years if not for the putrid start with his shooting. Remember when his TS% was at .400 this year, yikes!

I think this is a good point. Last night 21 points on 12 shots - he should have found a way to get up 18 or so.

I "think" he doesn't want to be seen as the guy jacking up shots - and that isn't helpful in the NBA when you have the hot hand.

That and I still think he puts more effort into the defensive side of the ball.

[playoffs]

He's starting to round out more into the player he was last year for us. The big problem is he just won't shoot enough. I refuse to blame coaching. Even with last years roster he only managed 10.7 shots a night with a complete green light.

It reminds me a lot of the Otto Porter situation. Obviously Otto was far more efficient offensively. He was so efficient that it was clear he could take quite a few more shots per game and even if it affected his percentages he would still likely be more efficient than anyone else on the roster. Obviously that's not Deni, but he's creating a ceiling for himself as a player if 10 shots a night is generally all he's comfortable with as a player.

Yup. And his numbers would be well past last years if not for the putrid start with his shooting. Remember when his TS% was at .400 this year, yikes!

I think this is a good point. Last night 21 points on 12 shots - he should have found a way to get up 18 or so.

I "think" he doesn't want to be seen as the guy jacking up shots - and that isn't helpful in the NBA when you have the hot hand.

That and I still think he puts more effort into the defensive side of the ball.

I watched the POR/DAL game last night. It was very clear that in certain lineups Deni is just relegated to standing in the corner and barely touches the ball, and in other lineups he is much more comfortable demanding the ball and going to work. Simons had a very hot hand yesterday, so I can't fault him for not passing to Deni more, but Deni was pretty much invisible when he was on the court with him. When Simons fouled out Deni took over and had a monster 4th quarter. And it's not a one off. Deni's last few games were his best games and they coincided with the 1-on-1 oriented players being out with injuries. It was sort of the same with Kuz and Poole last year. He needs to find a way to assert himself even with those guys on the court because when he does his thing it benefits everyone. Against the Kings Ayton looked like an elite big man because Deni made a point of repeatedly feeding him in his best spots.

[dckingsfan]

He's starting to round out more into the player he was last year for us. The big problem is he just won't shoot enough. I refuse to blame coaching. Even with last years roster he only managed 10.7 shots a night with a complete green light.

It reminds me a lot of the Otto Porter situation. Obviously Otto was far more efficient offensively. He was so efficient that it was clear he could take quite a few more shots per game and even if it affected his percentages he would still likely be more efficient than anyone else on the roster. Obviously that's not Deni, but he's creating a ceiling for himself as a player if 10 shots a night is generally all he's comfortable with as a player.

Yup. And his numbers would be well past last years if not for the putrid start with his shooting. Remember when his TS% was at .400 this year, yikes!

I think this is a good point. Last night 21 points on 12 shots - he should have found a way to get up 18 or so.

I "think" he doesn't want to be seen as the guy jacking up shots - and that isn't helpful in the NBA when you have the hot hand.

That and I still think he puts more effort into the defensive side of the ball.

I watched the POR/DAL game last night. It was very clear that in certain lineups Deni is just relegated to standing in the corner and barely touches the ball, and in other lineups he is much more comfortable demanding the ball and going to work. Simons had a very hot hand yesterday, so I can't fault him for not passing to Deni more, but Deni was pretty much invisible when he was on the court with him. When Simons fouled out Deni took over and had a monster 4th quarter. And it's not a one off. Deni's last few games were his best games and they coincided with the 1-on-1 oriented players being out with injuries. It was sort of the same with Kuz and Poole last year. He needs to find a way to assert himself even with those guys on the court because when he does his thing it benefits everyone. Against the Kings Ayton looked like an elite big man because Deni made a point of repeatedly feeding him in his best spots.

Same as what I saw. And he was more tentative until he wasn't. This is on Deni and he will figure it out or he won't.

Yeah, it was a silly experiment at the beginning of the season moving him to SG. Since he has been moved back to SF/PF, doing much better. Still, that was on him as well. He shot himself out of the SG position.

[Malapropism]

Yup. And his numbers would be well past last years if not for the putrid start with his shooting. Remember when his TS% was at .400 this year, yikes!

I think this is a good point. Last night 21 points on 12 shots - he should have found a way to get up 18 or so.

I "think" he doesn't want to be seen as the guy jacking up shots - and that isn't helpful in the NBA when you have the hot hand.

That and I still think he puts more effort into the defensive side of the ball.

I watched the POR/DAL game last night. It was very clear that in certain lineups Deni is just relegated to standing in the corner and barely touches the ball, and in other lineups he is much more comfortable demanding the ball and going to work. Simons had a very hot hand yesterday, so I can't fault him for not passing to Deni more, but Deni was pretty much invisible when he was on the court with him. When Simons fouled out Deni took over and had a monster 4th quarter. And it's not a one off. Deni's last few games were his best games and they coincided with the 1-on-1 oriented players being out with injuries. It was sort of the same with Kuz and Poole last year. He needs to find a way to assert himself even with those guys on the court because when he does his thing it benefits everyone. Against the Kings Ayton looked like an elite big man because Deni made a point of repeatedly feeding him in his best spots.

Same as what I saw. And he was more tentative until he wasn't. This is on Deni and he will figure it out or he won't.

Yeah, it was a silly experiment at the beginning of the season moving him to SG. Since he has been moved back to SF/PF, doing much better. Still, that was on him as well. He shot himself out of the SG position.

It wasn't an experiment, our starting shooting guard was injured and Toumani Camara played himself into a starting position. Deni was penciled in as a starter so they just went with the three forward lineup. When Sharpe came back, Deni was relegated to a bench role because Toumani Camara provides more value on the court as an all-NBA level defender, and obviously Deni wasn't going to relegate Grant. He's going to continue coming off the bench until Grant is moved, although it's nice that he's still warranting 30 MPG in a bench role.

I like Deni, he's been playing much better recently, but I'd walk back the deal as a Blazers fan if I could. His ceiling to me seems like a high level role player. From watching him, his lack of shots taken don't stem from a lack of opportunity, but rather ability. He's not good enough in the half court to generate good shots, so most of his shots come assisted or in transition (where he's quite good). Good, but not worth 2 mid firsts + 2 seconds + whatever Brogdon gets on the backend. At best it's fair value, but either way I wouldn't be dissappointed if I was a Wiz fan.

[The Consiglieri]

I watched the POR/DAL game last night. It was very clear that in certain lineups Deni is just relegated to standing in the corner and barely touches the ball, and in other lineups he is much more comfortable demanding the ball and going to work. Simons had a very hot hand yesterday, so I can't fault him for not passing to Deni more, but Deni was pretty much invisible when he was on the court with him. When Simons fouled out Deni took over and had a monster 4th quarter. And it's not a one off. Deni's last few games were his best games and they coincided with the 1-on-1 oriented players being out with injuries. It was sort of the same with Kuz and Poole last year. He needs to find a way to assert himself even with those guys on the court because when he does his thing it benefits everyone. Against the Kings Ayton looked like an elite big man because Deni made a point of repeatedly feeding him in his best spots.

Same as what I saw. And he was more tentative until he wasn't. This is on Deni and he will figure it out or he won't.

Yeah, it was a silly experiment at the beginning of the season moving him to SG. Since he has been moved back to SF/PF, doing much better. Still, that was on him as well. He shot himself out of the SG position.

It wasn't an experiment, our starting shooting guard was injured and Toumani Camara played himself into a starting position. Deni was penciled in as a starter so they just went with the three forward lineup. When Sharpe came back, Deni was relegated to a bench role because Toumani Camara provides more value on the court as an all-NBA level defender, and obviously Deni wasn't going to relegate Grant. He's going to continue coming off the bench until Grant is moved, although it's nice that he's still warranting 30 MPG in a bench role.

I like Deni, he's been playing much better recently, but I'd walk back the deal as a Blazers fan if I could. His ceiling to me seems like a high level role player. From watching him, his lack of shots taken don't stem from a lack of opportunity, but rather ability. He's not good enough in the half court to generate good shots, so most of his shots come assisted or in transition (where he's quite good). Good, but not worth 2 mid firsts + 2 seconds + whatever Brogdon gets on the backend. At best it's fair value, but either way I wouldn't be dissappointed if I was a Wiz fan.

Close your eyes and imagine your team had drafted Deni inbetween botched selections of Troy Brown (wasn't he a WR/CB for the Patriots?), Hachimura, Kispert and the greatness that remains Johnny Davis.

That's why it hurts people so much. I still remember when I mentioned Deni could be flipped because his time line was a bad match for the rebuild, and got a lot of cranky responses last winter. One of the rare instances in which I was actually right about something that transpired lol. I just thought we got a low ball offer, but maybe not.

Will be interesting to see how things play out over time.

[Malapropism]

Same as what I saw. And he was more tentative until he wasn't. This is on Deni and he will figure it out or he won't.

Yeah, it was a silly experiment at the beginning of the season moving him to SG. Since he has been moved back to SF/PF, doing much better. Still, that was on him as well. He shot himself out of the SG position.

It wasn't an experiment, our starting shooting guard was injured and Toumani Camara played himself into a starting position. Deni was penciled in as a starter so they just went with the three forward lineup. When Sharpe came back, Deni was relegated to a bench role because Toumani Camara provides more value on the court as an all-NBA level defender, and obviously Deni wasn't going to relegate Grant. He's going to continue coming off the bench until Grant is moved, although it's nice that he's still warranting 30 MPG in a bench role.

I like Deni, he's been playing much better recently, but I'd walk back the deal as a Blazers fan if I could. His ceiling to me seems like a high level role player. From watching him, his lack of shots taken don't stem from a lack of opportunity, but rather ability. He's not good enough in the half court to generate good shots, so most of his shots come assisted or in transition (where he's quite good). Good, but not worth 2 mid firsts + 2 seconds + whatever Brogdon gets on the backend. At best it's fair value, but either way I wouldn't be dissappointed if I was a Wiz fan.

Close your eyes and imagine your team had drafted Deni inbetween botched selections of Troy Brown (wasn't he a WR/CB for the Patriots?), Hachimura, Kispert and the greatness that remains Johnny Davis.

That's why it hurts people so much. I still remember when I mentioned Deni could be flipped because his time line was a bad match for the rebuild, and got a lot of cranky responses last winter. One of the rare instances in which I was actually right about something that transpired lol. I just thought we got a low ball offer, but maybe not.

Will be interesting to see how things play out over time.

I mean yeah, of course it depends on what you end up drafting. You could draft two nothing burgers and rather have Deni. But purely on value, a lotto pick + another likely mid 1st and some seconds is the top end of what I expect a high level role player to fetch. I'm trying to think of other players traded for two firsts. I mean hell, Aaron Gordon was traded for less. Blazers paid 2 mid 1sts for a declining Robert Covington (who absolutely was not worth it), but peak RoCo fetched Capela (worth a 1st at least) and another 1st.

Is Deni better than peak RoCo or Aaron Gordon? In the best case I think he's on the same tier? So y'all got that + 2 second rounders. Although maybe that is just the Blazers paying for Deni's contract status (which is quite good).

[playoffs]

It wasn't an experiment, our starting shooting guard was injured and Toumani Camara played himself into a starting position. Deni was penciled in as a starter so they just went with the three forward lineup. When Sharpe came back, Deni was relegated to a bench role because Toumani Camara provides more value on the court as an all-NBA level defender, and obviously Deni wasn't going to relegate Grant. He's going to continue coming off the bench until Grant is moved, although it's nice that he's still warranting 30 MPG in a bench role.

I like Deni, he's been playing much better recently, but I'd walk back the deal as a Blazers fan if I could. His ceiling to me seems like a high level role player. From watching him, his lack of shots taken don't stem from a lack of opportunity, but rather ability. He's not good enough in the half court to generate good shots, so most of his shots come assisted or in transition (where he's quite good). Good, but not worth 2 mid firsts + 2 seconds + whatever Brogdon gets on the backend. At best it's fair value, but either way I wouldn't be dissappointed if I was a Wiz fan.

Close your eyes and imagine your team had drafted Deni inbetween botched selections of Troy Brown (wasn't he a WR/CB for the Patriots?), Hachimura, Kispert and the greatness that remains Johnny Davis.

That's why it hurts people so much. I still remember when I mentioned Deni could be flipped because his time line was a bad match for the rebuild, and got a lot of cranky responses last winter. One of the rare instances in which I was actually right about something that transpired lol. I just thought we got a low ball offer, but maybe not.

Will be interesting to see how things play out over time.

I mean yeah, of course it depends on what you end up drafting. You could draft two nothing burgers and rather have Deni. But purely on value, a lotto pick + another likely mid 1st and some seconds is the top end of what I expect a high level role player to fetch. I'm trying to think of other players traded for two firsts. I mean hell, Aaron Gordon was traded for less. Blazers paid 2 mid 1sts for a declining Robert Covington (who absolutely was not worth it), but peak RoCo fetched Capela (worth a 1st at least) and another 1st.

Is Deni better than peak RoCo or Aaron Gordon? In the best case I think he's on the same tier? So y'all got that + 2 second rounders. Although maybe that is just the Blazers paying for Deni's contract status (which is quite good).

I mean, you got him for the 14th pick in a bad draft, and another pick that's realistically going to be in the late teens or early twenties 5 years from now. Bub might turn out great for the Wizards, but statistically the chances of landing quality players that pan out long term from those picks is very low. 2nd rounders are passed around so frequently that teams rarely draft their own second rounder, and they can be had for cash. And Brogdon is unlikely to net anything of value. I know that "2 1sts + 2 2nds + an expiring" sounds like a lot, but given Deni's contract and constant progression, I think it's an underpay.

[payitforward]

I mean, you got him for the 14th pick in a bad draft...

Wrong.

...and another pick that's realistically going to be in the late teens or early twenties 5 years from now..

Unknown. & wrong (given that you seem to mean that a pick "in the late teen or early twenties" is unlikely to be a good player.

...statistically the chances of landing quality players that pan out long term from those picks is very low...

Wrong

...2nd rounders are passed around so frequently that teams rarely draft their own second rounder, and they can be had for cash.

Wrong -- on both counts

...Brogdon is unlikely to net anything of value.....

Unknown & probably wrong as well.

"2 1sts + 2 2nds + an expiring" sounds like a lot...

?? Actually, it just plain IS a lot.

...Deni's... constant progression...

Myth. Though, yes, Deni improved last season over his first 3.

...it's an underpay.

Always good to meet the guy with the definitive answer.

[AFM]

Nate's post 10 years ago about 2nd Rounders being sold for cash has done irreparable harm to this forum

[dckingsfan]

I watched the POR/DAL game last night. It was very clear that in certain lineups Deni is just relegated to standing in the corner and barely touches the ball, and in other lineups he is much more comfortable demanding the ball and going to work. Simons had a very hot hand yesterday, so I can't fault him for not passing to Deni more, but Deni was pretty much invisible when he was on the court with him. When Simons fouled out Deni took over and had a monster 4th quarter. And it's not a one off. Deni's last few games were his best games and they coincided with the 1-on-1 oriented players being out with injuries. It was sort of the same with Kuz and Poole last year. He needs to find a way to assert himself even with those guys on the court because when he does his thing it benefits everyone. Against the Kings Ayton looked like an elite big man because Deni made a point of repeatedly feeding him in his best spots.

Same as what I saw. And he was more tentative until he wasn't. This is on Deni and he will figure it out or he won't.

Yeah, it was a silly experiment at the beginning of the season moving him to SG. Since he has been moved back to SF/PF, doing much better. Still, that was on him as well. He shot himself out of the SG position.

It wasn't an experiment, our starting shooting guard was injured and Toumani Camara played himself into a starting position. Deni was penciled in as a starter so they just went with the three forward lineup. When Sharpe came back, Deni was relegated to a bench role because Toumani Camara provides more value on the court as an all-NBA level defender, and obviously Deni wasn't going to relegate Grant. He's going to continue coming off the bench until Grant is moved, although it's nice that he's still warranting 30 MPG in a bench role.

I like Deni, he's been playing much better recently, but I'd walk back the deal as a Blazers fan if I could. His ceiling to me seems like a high level role player. From watching him, his lack of shots taken don't stem from a lack of opportunity, but rather ability. He's not good enough in the half court to generate good shots, so most of his shots come assisted or in transition (where he's quite good). Good, but not worth 2 mid firsts + 2 seconds + whatever Brogdon gets on the backend. At best it's fair value, but either way I wouldn't be dissappointed if I was a Wiz fan.

I have also been watching the games. Deni was definitely playing SG... And for Deni, that is most definitely an experiment. And yes, there have been injuries to the guards, Sharpe specifically. But the Simons, Scoot & Sharpe trio are a bit puzzling at guard anyway (although Banton has been a nice surprise).

And I think part of Camara's nice start was having Deni on the court with him. Deni went to the bench and Camara hasn't been the same (okay, correlation and not direct causation but you get the idea) since.

I also wouldn't have done the deal either if I was Portland unless you think you are trading Grant. It was a puzzling trade at best having Grant, Camara and Williams (although he has had to play all C with the injuries to Ayton and Clingan) as well as Murray & Walker (after thought).

The trade made little sense from Portland's perspective unless Deni continues to improve. Actually, the entire makeup of the Portland team is a bit of a head scratcher (including your coach).

[dckingsfan]

Nate's post 10 years ago about 2nd Rounders being sold for cash has done irreparable harm to this forum

Seems like we dwell on that even more than Deni

[playoffs]

I mean, you got him for the 14th pick in a bad draft...

Wrong.

...about the 14th pick? ...or did the 2024 draft class suddenly become special?

...and another pick that's realistically going to be in the late teens or early twenties 5 years from now..

Unknown. & wrong (given that you seem to mean that a pick "in the late teen or early twenties" is unlikely to be a good player.

Okay, what's a realistic range for the second most favorable pick Portland will have in 2029?

...statistically the chances of landing quality players that pan out long term from those picks is very low...

Wrong

In the last 25 years, how many 14th picks have been better than Deni?

...2nd rounders are passed around so frequently that teams rarely draft their own second rounder, and they can be had for cash.

Wrong -- on both counts

In the 2024 draft, how many teams used their own pick in the second round?

...Brogdon is unlikely to net anything of value.....

Unknown & probably wrong as well.

Which teams in the NBA would be willing to give up meaningful assets for Malcolm Brogdon?

"2 1sts + 2 2nds + an expiring" sounds like a lot...

?? Actually, it just plain IS a lot.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

...Deni's... constant progression...

Myth. Though, yes, Deni improved last season over his first 3.

Deni has statistically improved every year since he was drafted. His most notable improvement was indeed last year. And he is showing more signs of growth this year in Portland despite the slow start.

...it's an underpay.

Always good to meet the guy with the definitive answer.

Pretty disingenuous to intentionally leave out the words "I think" from my quote to try to paint me as "the guy with the definitive answer". In fact, given that you responded with "wrong" to everything I wrote, including verifiable facts, it seems like you are the one who feels he has all the answers.

[Malapropism]

Same as what I saw. And he was more tentative until he wasn't. This is on Deni and he will figure it out or he won't.

Yeah, it was a silly experiment at the beginning of the season moving him to SG. Since he has been moved back to SF/PF, doing much better. Still, that was on him as well. He shot himself out of the SG position.

It wasn't an experiment, our starting shooting guard was injured and Toumani Camara played himself into a starting position. Deni was penciled in as a starter so they just went with the three forward lineup. When Sharpe came back, Deni was relegated to a bench role because Toumani Camara provides more value on the court as an all-NBA level defender, and obviously Deni wasn't going to relegate Grant. He's going to continue coming off the bench until Grant is moved, although it's nice that he's still warranting 30 MPG in a bench role.

I like Deni, he's been playing much better recently, but I'd walk back the deal as a Blazers fan if I could. His ceiling to me seems like a high level role player. From watching him, his lack of shots taken don't stem from a lack of opportunity, but rather ability. He's not good enough in the half court to generate good shots, so most of his shots come assisted or in transition (where he's quite good). Good, but not worth 2 mid firsts + 2 seconds + whatever Brogdon gets on the backend. At best it's fair value, but either way I wouldn't be dissappointed if I was a Wiz fan.

I have also been watching the games. Deni was definitely playing SG... And for Deni, that is most definitely an experiment. And yes, there have been injuries to the guards, Sharpe specifically. But the Simons, Scoot & Sharpe trio are a bit puzzling at guard anyway (although Banton has been a nice surprise).

And I think part of Camara's nice start was having Deni on the court with him. Deni went to the bench and Camara hasn't been the same (okay, correlation and not direct causation but you get the idea) since.

I also wouldn't have done the deal either if I was Portland unless you think you are trading Grant. It was a puzzling trade at best having Grant, Camara and Williams (although he has had to play all C with the injuries to Ayton and Clingan) as well as Murray & Walker (after thought).

The trade made little sense from Portland's perspective unless Deni continues to improve. Actually, the entire makeup of the Portland team is a bit of a head scratcher (including your coach).

Yes, the point is they were starting Deni, Toumani, and Grant out of necessity and circumstance. Whichever you want to call the SG in that lineup is all just semantics. They're all wings, and all wings that are not great at creating in the half court, which is why it was terrible offensively (although it was pretty freakin' sweet defensively).

I've watched every Blazer game this year, and how I know haven't is because of your perception of Camara. Camara's play isn't influenced by Deni. He plays more because he's so valuable defensively. When Sharpe came back it was Deni that lost his starting spot and not Camara. Why? Because what Camara provides on defense is more impactful than what Deni provides as a package. Deni making more shots in the last few games has closed the gap, but I don't see him winning his starting spot back unless Camara drops off a cliff defensively or gets injured.

I'm not trying to put down Deni. He's a good player. But he was penciled in as the starter at SF/PF before the season and Camara outplayed him to earn that spot. The FO was definitely were not expecting that when they made the trade, and while that maybe speaks more towards how good Camara is, it's still doesn't feel great that they spent 4 picks to acquire a bench player. I do expect them to move Grant eventually so there's a pretty safe avenue for Deni to become a starter again.

PS: Did he also miss a lot of layups/dunks in Washington? I swear, the number of times he makes a great move and has a clear look at the basket but blows the layup/dunks is pretty astonishing for a guy of his size.

[trast66]

It wasn't an experiment, our starting shooting guard was injured and Toumani Camara played himself into a starting position. Deni was penciled in as a starter so they just went with the three forward lineup. When Sharpe came back, Deni was relegated to a bench role because Toumani Camara provides more value on the court as an all-NBA level defender, and obviously Deni wasn't going to relegate Grant. He's going to continue coming off the bench until Grant is moved, although it's nice that he's still warranting 30 MPG in a bench role.

I like Deni, he's been playing much better recently, but I'd walk back the deal as a Blazers fan if I could. His ceiling to me seems like a high level role player. From watching him, his lack of shots taken don't stem from a lack of opportunity, but rather ability. He's not good enough in the half court to generate good shots, so most of his shots come assisted or in transition (where he's quite good). Good, but not worth 2 mid firsts + 2 seconds + whatever Brogdon gets on the backend. At best it's fair value, but either way I wouldn't be dissappointed if I was a Wiz fan.

I have also been watching the games. Deni was definitely playing SG... And for Deni, that is most definitely an experiment. And yes, there have been injuries to the guards, Sharpe specifically. But the Simons, Scoot & Sharpe trio are a bit puzzling at guard anyway (although Banton has been a nice surprise).

And I think part of Camara's nice start was having Deni on the court with him. Deni went to the bench and Camara hasn't been the same (okay, correlation and not direct causation but you get the idea) since.

I also wouldn't have done the deal either if I was Portland unless you think you are trading Grant. It was a puzzling trade at best having Grant, Camara and Williams (although he has had to play all C with the injuries to Ayton and Clingan) as well as Murray & Walker (after thought).

The trade made little sense from Portland's perspective unless Deni continues to improve. Actually, the entire makeup of the Portland team is a bit of a head scratcher (including your coach).

Yes, the point is they were starting Deni, Toumani, and Grant out of necessity and circumstance. Whichever you want to call the SG in that lineup is all just semantics. They're all wings, and all wings that are not great at creating in the half court, which is why it was terrible offensively (although it was pretty freakin' sweet defensively).

I've watched every Blazer game this year, and how I know haven't is because of your perception of Camara. Camara's play isn't influenced by Deni. He plays more because he's so valuable defensively. When Sharpe came back it was Deni that lost his starting spot and not Camara. Why? Because what Camara provides on defense is more impactful than what Deni provides as a package. Deni making more shots in the last few games has closed the gap, but I don't see him winning his starting spot back unless Camara drops off a cliff defensively or gets injured.

I'm not trying to put down Deni. He's a good player. But he was penciled in as the starter at SF/PF before the season and Camara outplayed him to earn that spot. The FO was definitely were not expecting that when they made the trade, and while that maybe speaks more towards how good Camara is, it's still doesn't feel great that they spent 4 picks to acquire a bench player. I do expect them to move Grant eventually so there's a pretty safe avenue for Deni to become a starter again.

PS: Did he also miss a lot of layups/dunks in Washington? I swear, the number of times he makes a great move and has a clear look at the basket but blows the layup/dunks is pretty astonishing for a guy of his size.

Your comments are right on, good trade for Wiz, 4 picks for a bench player. Camara is very impressive.

Deni has no left hand so makes finishing difficult. Also not elite athlete in NBA terms.

His success variable is same as when he got drafted, can he hit 3 pointers. If he hits 38% or so he is useful, under that very limited.