Where do you stand on tanking this season?

[Eyeamok]

"Getting a star player in the NBA is not impossibly hard, but close. It requires either an incredible amount of luck, or an amazing amount of time, or some other way to try and get at it."

Sam Hinkie.

We had luck with Embiid falling to us via injury. We had bad luck with Embiid sitting out 2 years.
We had luck in getting the #1 pick for Simmons and Fultz. We had bad luck because they had major flaws in their games, that they could not overcome. Now when the team positions it's self to be a top contender we are hit with the injury bug.

Maxey can be a star, perhaps McCain can be one too. The upper portion of this draft has star potential. It's only right that Morey shoots for it.

[youngcrev]

I still think this is a good roster that could do some damage if they could get healthy and gain some chemistry on the floor together.... But man does that roster look that much better with a top-5 pick this year, particularly with all those playmaking wing sized guys at the top. If there's a way you can leverage this into some type of long-term health play with Embiid, **** it.

I'm down with a 1 year tank. I'm down with a playoff run if they can get it together. What I'm not down with a is a full tear down rebuild. I was on board with the process because of the situation we were in, but I also completely tuned out on watching the actual games. I have zero fun watching them lose.

[Iverson Armband]

I still think this is a good roster that could do some damage if they could get healthy and gain some chemistry on the floor together.... But man does that roster look that much better with a top-5 pick this year, particularly with all those playmaking wing sized guys at the top. If there's a way you can leverage this into some type of long-term health play with Embiid, **** it.

I'm down with a 1 year tank. I'm down with a playoff run if they can get it together. What I'm not down with a is a full tear down rebuild. I was on board with the process because of the situation we were in, but I also completely tuned out on watching the actual games. I have zero fun watching them lose.

Agreed. I think a one year tank is a nice compromise. Even if you move off Embiid and/or George in the offseason…with Maxey, McCain and a top 6 pick that’s not really a rebuilding situation for very long.

[Mik317]

the "plan" for building a winning team is to find that guy to build around and then spend the next 7-9 years building a roster that exploits his gifts and hides his weaknesses...ideally with some consistancy.

we spent half of the first half attempting to build around Biid AND Ben's strengths...which didn't always mesh because of each's flaws...and we constantly switched it up via roster turnover every season..and then once finally deciding to build around Biid, continued the turnover and always seemed to be looking for the NEXT big move...the next season.

Basically we fell backwards into the first part (finding the guy) and simply bungled up the following part lol. Despite it all I will take that over trying to field a team of role players and hoping they pull off the 04 pistons..even though right now sucks balls

[76ciology]

the "plan" for building a winning team is to find that guy to build around and then spend the next 7-9 years building a roster that exploits his gifts and hides his weaknesses...ideally with some consistancy.

we spent half of the first half attempting to build around Biid AND Ben's strengths...which didn't always mesh because of each's flaws...and we constantly switched it up via roster turnover every season..and then once finally deciding to build around Biid, continued the turnover and always seemed to be looking for the NEXT big move...the next season.

Basically we fell backwards into the first part (finding the guy) and simply bungled up the following part lol. Despite it all I will take that over trying to field a team of role players and hoping they pull off the 04 pistons..even though right now sucks balls

It’s mostly because of this franchise’s wrong assessment on Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid.

Ben Simmons isn’t that good. It’s IMPOSSIBLE to win with a guard or a wing who can’t shoot.

And if you want to win with Embiid, you need to build a team that can win a championship WITHOUT him. He’ll either disappear in the playoffs or you need to load management him half of the regular season and you’d still dont know what you are going to get in the playoffs. And I dont know how you can build a great team chemistry with that.

At this point, I believe winning a championship after a rebuild would be quicker than trying to win one with this current team.

[M2J]

the "plan" for building a winning team is to find that guy to build around and then spend the next 7-9 years building a roster that exploits his gifts and hides his weaknesses...ideally with some consistancy.

we spent half of the first half attempting to build around Biid AND Ben's strengths...which didn't always mesh because of each's flaws...and we constantly switched it up via roster turnover every season..and then once finally deciding to build around Biid, continued the turnover and always seemed to be looking for the NEXT big move...the next season.

Basically we fell backwards into the first part (finding the guy) and simply bungled up the following part lol. Despite it all I will take that over trying to field a team of role players and hoping they pull off the 04 pistons..even though right now sucks balls

It’s mostly because of this franchise’s wrong assessment on Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid.

Ben Simmons isn’t that good. It’s IMPOSSIBLE to win with a guard or a wing who can’t shoot.

And if you want to win with Embiid, you need to build a team that can win a championship WITHOUT him. He’ll either disappear in the playoffs or you need to load management him half of the regular season and you’d still dont know what you are going to get in the playoffs. And I dont know how you can build a great team chemistry with that.

At this point, I believe winning a championship after a rebuild would be quicker than trying to win one with this current team.

That means building around the draft pick this year?

[76ciology]

the "plan" for building a winning team is to find that guy to build around and then spend the next 7-9 years building a roster that exploits his gifts and hides his weaknesses...ideally with some consistancy.

we spent half of the first half attempting to build around Biid AND Ben's strengths...which didn't always mesh because of each's flaws...and we constantly switched it up via roster turnover every season..and then once finally deciding to build around Biid, continued the turnover and always seemed to be looking for the NEXT big move...the next season.

Basically we fell backwards into the first part (finding the guy) and simply bungled up the following part lol. Despite it all I will take that over trying to field a team of role players and hoping they pull off the 04 pistons..even though right now sucks balls

It’s mostly because of this franchise’s wrong assessment on Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid.

Ben Simmons isn’t that good. It’s IMPOSSIBLE to win with a guard or a wing who can’t shoot.

And if you want to win with Embiid, you need to build a team that can win a championship WITHOUT him. He’ll either disappear in the playoffs or you need to load management him half of the regular season and you’d still dont know what you are going to get in the playoffs. And I dont know how you can build a great team chemistry with that.

At this point, I believe winning a championship after a rebuild would be quicker than trying to win one with this current team.

That means building around the draft pick this year?

Yes, it involves fewer uncontrolled variables and relies less on luck.

We then can surround him with vets and young players like how the Spurs are right now and what the Celtics did. Try to make the playoffs every year, in order to develop the young alpha, while accumulating draft picks on the side, waiting for the “final piece” opportunity.

[DCasey91]

My ideal scenario is that Embiid gets read the riot act, same with PG. no you both don't get 5 dribbles, yes both of you gun for All Defensive selection next season.

F cotton wool eat some cement be men go to the woods and chop trees all day whatever. They both need their arc to come to resolution

If they don't like it cool don't let the door hit you on the way out. Big oaf we know you fukd up going to the Olympics. You've had plenty of chances this for me is the final straw. You have the year to get right now no excuses

Exact same thing I said about Ben. They are doo doo between the ears. F it go do bullet ant therapy I dunno live with villagers that hunt and get dummy high, go climb Everest, stop being massive pansies

Anyway there's my rant if they are still mules at the end of it don't say anything just open the door and let them go.

But yeah Okongwu wouldn't cost a first round pick goddamn it get one of my boys thanks Morey I know you frequent these boards.

[ProcessDoctor]

Gotta tank at this point, especially if the ultimate goal is to win a chip. No championship team has ever started this badly, so even if we come back and make the playoffs, what's the point? It would just be another early playoff exit added to this team's underwhelming resume. Get one of Cooper/Egor/Harper and return next season with or without Joel.

[Peak Brunson]

the "plan" for building a winning team is to find that guy to build around and then spend the next 7-9 years building a roster that exploits his gifts and hides his weaknesses...ideally with some consistancy.

we spent half of the first half attempting to build around Biid AND Ben's strengths...which didn't always mesh because of each's flaws...and we constantly switched it up via roster turnover every season..and then once finally deciding to build around Biid, continued the turnover and always seemed to be looking for the NEXT big move...the next season.

Basically we fell backwards into the first part (finding the guy) and simply bungled up the following part lol. Despite it all I will take that over trying to field a team of role players and hoping they pull off the 04 pistons..even though right now sucks balls

It’s mostly because of this franchise’s wrong assessment on Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid.

Ben Simmons isn’t that good. It’s IMPOSSIBLE to win with a guard or a wing who can’t shoot.

Not exactly, the main issue with Simmons was his lack of scoring, not necessarily his shooting. I'm willing to bet it would have worked much better if he had Zion scoring ability.

[Mik317]

the "plan" for building a winning team is to find that guy to build around and then spend the next 7-9 years building a roster that exploits his gifts and hides his weaknesses...ideally with some consistancy.

we spent half of the first half attempting to build around Biid AND Ben's strengths...which didn't always mesh because of each's flaws...and we constantly switched it up via roster turnover every season..and then once finally deciding to build around Biid, continued the turnover and always seemed to be looking for the NEXT big move...the next season.

Basically we fell backwards into the first part (finding the guy) and simply bungled up the following part lol. Despite it all I will take that over trying to field a team of role players and hoping they pull off the 04 pistons..even though right now sucks balls

It’s mostly because of this franchise’s wrong assessment on Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid.

Ben Simmons isn’t that good. It’s IMPOSSIBLE to win with a guard or a wing who can’t shoot.

And if you want to win with Embiid, you need to build a team that can win a championship WITHOUT him. He’ll either disappear in the playoffs or you need to load management him half of the regular season and you’d still dont know what you are going to get in the playoffs. And I dont know how you can build a great team chemistry with that.

At this point, I believe winning a championship after a rebuild would be quicker than trying to win one with this current team.

I don't agree with this

its easy to say now but I think that at various points in time be it the Jimmy team or even the Harden team..the FO decided to pivot completely each time. Those were the two time we were closest to "breaking" through. They ever gave them any chance to really build any chemistry because they constantly added major pieces or promised the addition of future pieces. Now I am not saying the me of the past would have MAXED out Harden because I wouldn't...not after that implosion...but our answer ended up being wasting another year, adding more wear and tear on Biid and then signing an equally old and injured player to a max anyway...meanwhile not really solving the problem.

IMO to build a team around Joel Embiid is to have it so ne doesn't feel like he has to do everything. He can get his own shot and be the whole offense....shouldn't need to be . He can anchor a defense...doesn't mean he HAS to put out all of the fires solo. He can iso and grift it up...shouldn't be the main gameplan. IMO the injuries generally have come from the fact that at various points throughout the last 3-4 years he was the PG, the SG, and the center gameplan wise and the team died the moment he wasn't. You keep peddling this "lol gotta have a championship winning team without him" mess when the reality is that just a .500 level team would be nice lol. Again I wouldn't have run it back but Harden at least on Paper gave him that....he won us a game without Biid and saved his ass in another.

You get a real playmaker, a real shooter, defender/rebounders who aren't zeros spacing wise and a competent bench and I think you could make some noise especially if you give them time to gel...which probably means some ugly and annoying playoff flameouts. Giannis got wall'd for years. Jokic has been swept. Tatum has a bunch of bad playoff losses. Each franchise iterrated on what worked and what didn't. We have constantly thrown the baby out with the bath water every single season all because of some nebulous window.

IMO it is time to rebuild but mostly because they have ran out of moves to make and this injury seems like he won't recover from...but I think it was very easy to build around Biid flaws and all. The FO constantly made the wrong decisions and ran out of moves.

[76ciology]

the "plan" for building a winning team is to find that guy to build around and then spend the next 7-9 years building a roster that exploits his gifts and hides his weaknesses...ideally with some consistancy.

we spent half of the first half attempting to build around Biid AND Ben's strengths...which didn't always mesh because of each's flaws...and we constantly switched it up via roster turnover every season..and then once finally deciding to build around Biid, continued the turnover and always seemed to be looking for the NEXT big move...the next season.

Basically we fell backwards into the first part (finding the guy) and simply bungled up the following part lol. Despite it all I will take that over trying to field a team of role players and hoping they pull off the 04 pistons..even though right now sucks balls

It’s mostly because of this franchise’s wrong assessment on Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid.

Ben Simmons isn’t that good. It’s IMPOSSIBLE to win with a guard or a wing who can’t shoot.

And if you want to win with Embiid, you need to build a team that can win a championship WITHOUT him. He’ll either disappear in the playoffs or you need to load management him half of the regular season and you’d still dont know what you are going to get in the playoffs. And I dont know how you can build a great team chemistry with that.

At this point, I believe winning a championship after a rebuild would be quicker than trying to win one with this current team.

I don't agree with this

its easy to say now but I think that at various points in time be it the Jimmy team or even the Harden team..the FO decided to pivot completely each time. Those were the two time we were closest to "breaking" through. They ever gave them any chance to really build any chemistry because they constantly added major pieces or promised the addition of future pieces. Now I am not saying the me of the past would have MAXED out Harden because I wouldn't...not after that implosion...but our answer ended up being wasting another year, adding more wear and tear on Biid and then signing an equally old and injured player to a max anyway...meanwhile not really solving the problem.

IMO to build a team around Joel Embiid is to have it so ne doesn't feel like he has to do everything. He can get his own shot and be the whole offense....shouldn't need to be . He can anchor a defense...doesn't mean he HAS to put out all of the fires solo. He can iso and grift it up...shouldn't be the main gameplan. IMO the injuries generally have come from the fact that at various points throughout the last 3-4 years he was the PG, the SG, and the center gameplan wise and the team died the moment he wasn't. You keep peddling this "lol gotta have a championship winning team without him" mess when the reality is that just a .500 level team would be nice lol. Again I wouldn't have run it back but Harden at least on Paper gave him that....he won us a game without Biid and saved his ass in another.

You get a real playmaker, a real shooter, defender/rebounders who aren't zeros spacing wise and a competent bench and I think you could make some noise especially if you give them time to gel...which probably means some ugly and annoying playoff flameouts. Giannis got wall'd for years. Jokic has been swept. Tatum has a bunch of bad playoff losses. Each franchise iterrated on what worked and what didn't. We have constantly thrown the baby out with the bath water every single season all because of some nebulous window.

IMO it is time to rebuild but mostly because they have ran out of moves to make and this injury seems like he won't recover from...but I think it was very easy to build around Biid flaws and all. The FO constantly made the wrong decisions and ran out of moves.

The team moved on from Jimmy Butler because of Ben Simmons’ issues with him, and later pivoted from James Harden due to his fallout with Daryl Morey. However, if Ben and Morey hadn’t been here, it’s very possible that both Jimmy and James might have stayed. We didnt pivot because we didn’t think they were the answers

Embiid, despite his talent, is not an ideal centerpiece to build around—or at the very least, he’s incredibly challenging to construct a team around. His injuries lead to him lacking of consistent game experience so both he and us need years of experience and adjust individually or as a team every year.

Building a championship team isn’t just about adding shooters; it requires strong chemistry. And because Embiid availability is questionable, you need multiple stars to play with him. It’s not enough to simply have the right pieces—you need the experience and understanding to utilize them effectively.

Game experience is essential for experimenting with and perfecting different lineups. For example, Nick Nurse’s 2019 Raptors championship squad was incredibly versatile. They could run a small backcourt with VanVleet and Lowry, or switch to a more conventional setup with Danny Green or Powell. On the other hand, they could go big with Kawhi at the 2, Siakam at the 3, Ibaka at the 4, and Gasol at the 5—a lineup that crushed opponents like us by dominating the boards. This ability to adapt to matchups and situations is what separates good teams from championship contenders.

That and his overall reliability are major obstacles. And to get the best version of Embiid, you need multiple conditions to align:

First: You have to make the playoffs with him missing a lot of games

Second: he has to be healthy and available.

Third: engaged and energetic (to not turnover-prone and be step late on defense)

Fourth: then his shooting his mid-range at a high efficiency to offset this 3pt heavy era.

That’s a lot of variables to manage for a centerpiece, especially against elite teams deep in the playoffs with more reliable first options and teams likely with better chemistry. Most of them have the first three conditions already met every year.

I agree with the perspective that Embiid shouldn’t be the “main gameplan”. A more effective strategy would change his role: where he could excel as a secondary offensive option behind a reliable first option or alpha with more game reps. Who’s that for us right now? Maxey? George? I dont see both fitting that role. That and a reliable third option capable of stepping up as a go-to scorer would also be crucial if he decides not to bring it. This structure would make up for Embiid’s need for load management during the regular season and prepare the team for his postseason performance or availability variance.

[Mik317]

again IMO the injuries have come from an oversize workload.

Each of the last 3 years it generally came after a long stretch of having to put up 40 a night while covering for some absolute sieves and being one of the best passers on the team by default.

The FO never fixed that. Now part of this is due to Biid wanting to play that way and not really taking his fitness seriously so he is not off the hook here. But I just don't think its that difficult theory wise at least to build a real contender. I have always said that the simple fact that our flawed ass rosters were even in positions to contend says that.

I have watched this team since 2000 and even that 01 team I didn't have an inkling of them ever winning it all, I could lie to myself a lot easier about most of the Biid era teams lol. Its funny that Collars had the right idea inm terms of what was needed, Fultz was supposed to be the playmaker/scorer who could take on some of the scoring load....but welp. JJ was the perfect shooter next to Biid. Dario was also a good pairing next to Biid in theory as a big shooter/rebounder with some passing chops. Ben even without he Bron comp could have been the super Aaron Gordon/PJ Tucker if he just shot the damn ball.

But ok **** doesn't always work out so they pivoted to Jimmy replacing Fultz and Tobias replacing Dario...and was a bounce away with a much greener Biid. Same basic idea just run it back....nope. Pivot again because Ben wanted to be a PG so they got HIM Horford in the name of getting Biid a "real" backup and thought that Tobias could take on that secondary scoring role and decided JJ was expendable. Yeah that was bad gameplanning all around.

Bring in Morey to "fix" it..and we all knew that "fix" it was to eventually trade for Harden. Morey played hardball and missed out on it year one BUT did fix the shooting with Seth and Danny (and Maxey who he lucked into) but yet again put hope in Tobias being more than he is and the age ole "this is the year Ben shoots" hope while **** him up by knowing his ass was on the chopping block all year. Ben passed on that layup....welp. Doc/Biid "threw him under the bus"...His fee fees got hurt...now he has to go and everyone knew it soooooo now what. Added more shooting and a real backup big at least. Traded for Harden mid season coming off a hamstring injury...built in excuse for a bad playoffs. Did **** all that offseason IIRC; should have fired Doc imo but at this point in retrospect all coaches are the same dude lol. Another season, team was doing good but the whole season was wait until the deadline tho..gonna finally move Tobias for a guy or some ****. Nothing. Harden and Biid PNR doe. Ignoring the fact that it was actual easy to stop by just forcing Harden to take the middy or try to lay it up BUT team was still like 1 Melton 3 away from a conference finals despite it all. Again while I was out on Harden (and Biid to be honest; I would have traded him for Scoot...and yeah that would have been terrible lol), Morey again tried to play hardball and pissed Harden off and yet another offseason of **** all happening. Traded Harden eventually for scraps and went on to the cap space plan. Biid was going nuts and yet again because of the oversized workload, he got hurt. Cap Space plan ended up being PG and a bunch of olds lol. Biid finally looks like he can't bounce back from an injury and here we are.

That is the basic break down of this era for the most part..that ignores the prior misses like Jah, Nerlens, and all of the seconds thrown away. Just a ton of misses and poor decisions that have simply added up that were hidden by Biid generally being an elite floor raiser in the regular season. And look maybe even if we brought Jimmy back, it would have ended up the same. Maybe keeping Harden wouldn't have changed much. Hell you could go back draft Tatum and Jaylen Brown and the end result ends up with nothing... that is very possible. BUT IMO I personally just think the FO constantly either made a rash decision at the worst times or didn't make a decision soon enough...but I think you can easily build a winning roster around Joel...and we had a chance to do it but simply kicked the can down the road too many times.

[Iverson Armband]

Basically, you need the perfect team to have a shot with Embiid

[76ciology]

Basically, you need the perfect team to have a shot with Embiid

You can win a championship with Embiid—not as the centerpiece, but as the final piece in a roster that can already compete without him.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Well, it's going to take a down season AND a top three pick in this upcoming draft to fix things. There are no more moves to make.

[Mik317]

Basically, you need the perfect team to have a shot with Embiid

you need a borderline perfect team to win with anyone if you are going to pedantic about it.

No one is flawless. You need a team that can cover those flaws. Giannis got wall'd for years because Bledsoe was an ass PG . They got him Jrue and then PJ to take the load off on the perimeter and Bropez being the perfect floor spacing and rim protector allowed Giannis to roam. Middleton was the closer for that run as well. Portis also fit well. ...Middleton fell apart, Jrue got old and then traded, and they never replaced PJ...and suddenly first round exits galore.

Jokic is the best in the world right now. But doesn't win **** without them trading for Aaron Gordon who is able to not only protect the rim but also guard up and down...as well as being a lob threat. KCP and their gaggle of wing defenders covers for Jokic' lack of foot speed and also are all great release valves. AGain he also had a closer in Playoff Jamal Murray. Murray may be washed and their wings aren't as good and now they don't look like world beaters anymore.

I am not absolving Biid of his own ****. I have said for damn near a decade that he needed to try to be Tim Duncan and not the stupid Kobe Shaq Dirk homunculus he has attempted to be...and that required loosing some weight and be less ball dominant. He didn't do that and has to hold that L. HOWEVER I don't think its neigh impossible to have built a better more cohesive roster around him either. They damn near did so twice and I wouldn't call those perfect rosters by no stretch of the imagination, there was always something that was just outright bad and you have to live with it (normally the bench lol) but both time we had those good rosters were also the both times we were close to breaking through IMO. Each of the recent champs all went through some playoff failure....and most of it was due to their star's flaws imo. Giannis lack of bag. Jokic' defense. Tatum/Brown's lack of playmaking. Their FOs constantly tweaked their teams to help hide those flaws WHILE enhancing their strengths...ours took for granted that Biid could always just elevate other players with his gravity and his playstyle that relies on tough shot making and grifting would just never fall off while also expecting him to lead a top defense too as they constantly looked for the BIG MOVE down the line. They made small and quiet additions (Derrick White, Jrue twice, guys like Bruce Brown, the aforementioned Aaron Gordon trade); we every year hope for the buy out market to get us a not washed old dude because we used all of our ammo on bad moves prior.

Thats the difference IMO.

[M2J]

Basically, you need the perfect team to have a shot with Embiid

you need a borderline perfect team to win with anyone if you are going to pedantic about it.

No one is flawless. You need a team that can cover those flaws. Giannis got wall'd for years because Bledsoe was an ass PG . They got him Jrue and then PJ to take the load off on the perimeter and Bropez being the perfect floor spacing and rim protector allowed Giannis to roam. Middleton was the closer for that run as well. Portis also fit well. ...Middleton fell apart, Jrue got old and then traded, and they never replaced PJ...and suddenly first round exits galore.

Jokic is the best in the world right now. But doesn't win **** without them trading for Aaron Gordon who is able to not only protect the rim but also guard up and down...as well as being a lob threat. KCP and their gaggle of wing defenders covers for Jokic' lack of foot speed and also are all great release valves. AGain he also had a closer in Playoff Jamal Murray. Murray may be washed and their wings aren't as good and now they don't look like world beaters anymore.

I am not absolving Biid of his own ****. I have said for damn near a decade that he needed to try to be Tim Duncan and not the stupid Kobe Shaq Dirk homunculus he has attempted to be...and that required loosing some weight and be less ball dominant. He didn't do that and has to hold that L. HOWEVER I don't think its neigh impossible to have built a better more cohesive roster around him either. They damn near did so twice and I wouldn't call those perfect rosters by no stretch of the imagination, there was always something that was just outright bad and you have to live with it (normally the bench lol) but both time we had those good rosters were also the both times we were close to breaking through IMO. Each of the recent champs all went through some playoff failure....and most of it was due to their star's flaws imo. Giannis lack of bag. Jokic' defense. Tatum/Brown's lack of playmaking. Their FOs constantly tweaked their teams to help hide those flaws WHILE enhancing their strengths...ours took for granted that Biid could always just elevate other players with his gravity and his playstyle that relies on tough shot making and grifting would just never fall off while also expecting him to lead a top defense too as they constantly looked for the BIG MOVE down the line. They made small and quiet additions (Derrick White, Jrue twice, guys like Bruce Brown, the aforementioned Aaron Gordon trade); we every year hope for the buy out market to get us a not washed old dude because we used all of our ammo on bad moves prior.

Thats the difference IMO.

I agree, every team needs luck and to be built well and capable of winning around the 2nd best player for games as well as the best, and just multiple ways to win. Every title team has that from Toronto to the Lakers to the Nuggets and Warriors.

Last year especially, the kick the can down the road approach fell because they didn't really replace Harden, and Nurse said Joel should play more and his usage offensively and defensively for them to be an elite team broke him down hopefully not for good.

Joel shouldn't have needed to be the first option in the playoffs, but instead a hub,a finisher, and defensive leader. Many here have been saying that for years. The closest year to that was with Jimmy but they had a lack of shooting depending on Tobias and JJ was played off the floor defensively. Harden was clearly incapable of doing it but also wouldn't play without the ball... Useless without it in fact. But even with James and Maxey those regular seasons were too focused on getting Joel MVP (at least they managed his minutes and got him to the playoffs healthy). Many here will see it differently, but Maxeys performance in the playoffs last year was probably the best we've seen from a Joel teammate, but again the kick the can approach didn't do them justice as they could only win with them going off. They had a loser at backup center. 1 legit ball handler and 1 big. I personally thought they had enough with how well Joel and Maxey played, but it's undeniable that Nurse misplayed the specific hand Morey gave him from not extending the game down 5 with 30 seconds to go in game 2 I believe, to not integrating Buddy into his offense, and not getting enough from Paul Reed all year or playing Ricky or KJ.

[Iverson Armband]

Basically, you need the perfect team to have a shot with Embiid

you need a borderline perfect team to win with anyone if you are going to pedantic about it.

No one is flawless. You need a team that can cover those flaws. Giannis got wall'd for years because Bledsoe was an ass PG . They got him Jrue and then PJ to take the load off on the perimeter and Bropez being the perfect floor spacing and rim protector allowed Giannis to roam. Middleton was the closer for that run as well. Portis also fit well. ...Middleton fell apart, Jrue got old and then traded, and they never replaced PJ...and suddenly first round exits galore.

Jokic is the best in the world right now. But doesn't win **** without them trading for Aaron Gordon who is able to not only protect the rim but also guard up and down...as well as being a lob threat. KCP and their gaggle of wing defenders covers for Jokic' lack of foot speed and also are all great release valves. AGain he also had a closer in Playoff Jamal Murray. Murray may be washed and their wings aren't as good and now they don't look like world beaters anymore.

I am not absolving Biid of his own ****. I have said for damn near a decade that he needed to try to be Tim Duncan and not the stupid Kobe Shaq Dirk homunculus he has attempted to be...and that required loosing some weight and be less ball dominant. He didn't do that and has to hold that L. HOWEVER I don't think its neigh impossible to have built a better more cohesive roster around him either. They damn near did so twice and I wouldn't call those perfect rosters by no stretch of the imagination, there was always something that was just outright bad and you have to live with it (normally the bench lol) but both time we had those good rosters were also the both times we were close to breaking through IMO. Each of the recent champs all went through some playoff failure....and most of it was due to their star's flaws imo. Giannis lack of bag. Jokic' defense. Tatum/Brown's lack of playmaking. Their FOs constantly tweaked their teams to help hide those flaws WHILE enhancing their strengths...ours took for granted that Biid could always just elevate other players with his gravity and his playstyle that relies on tough shot making and grifting would just never fall off while also expecting him to lead a top defense too as they constantly looked for the BIG MOVE down the line. They made small and quiet additions (Derrick White, Jrue twice, guys like Bruce Brown, the aforementioned Aaron Gordon trade); we every year hope for the buy out market to get us a not washed old dude because we used all of our ammo on bad moves prior.

Thats the difference IMO.

Obviously, no player can do it by themselves. Hell, Jordan couldn’t. The difference with Joel is he seems to….need everything. He needs an elite guard. He needs elite wings. He needs another big who can shoot. He needs another big that can pass and rebound because he can’t. He needs an above average backup because he’s unreliable .. you get my point. He needs leaders because he isn’t one. At some point it’s like damn.


And you even said so yourself, Biid had some of those teams we all agree fit him to tee and what happened? You blame the FO for tinkering, but I think they saw those results and how unreliable/small Joel came up and probably panicked a bit trying to get pieces around him. It didn’t work but I don’t think it’s from lack of trying. All parties have their fair share of blame but the failures of this era fall squarely at his feet IMO

[76ciology]

Basically, you need the perfect team to have a shot with Embiid

you need a borderline perfect team to win with anyone if you are going to pedantic about it.

No one is flawless. You need a team that can cover those flaws. Giannis got wall'd for years because Bledsoe was an ass PG . They got him Jrue and then PJ to take the load off on the perimeter and Bropez being the perfect floor spacing and rim protector allowed Giannis to roam. Middleton was the closer for that run as well. Portis also fit well. ...Middleton fell apart, Jrue got old and then traded, and they never replaced PJ...and suddenly first round exits galore.

Jokic is the best in the world right now. But doesn't win **** without them trading for Aaron Gordon who is able to not only protect the rim but also guard up and down...as well as being a lob threat. KCP and their gaggle of wing defenders covers for Jokic' lack of foot speed and also are all great release valves. AGain he also had a closer in Playoff Jamal Murray. Murray may be washed and their wings aren't as good and now they don't look like world beaters anymore.

I am not absolving Biid of his own ****. I have said for damn near a decade that he needed to try to be Tim Duncan and not the stupid Kobe Shaq Dirk homunculus he has attempted to be...and that required loosing some weight and be less ball dominant. He didn't do that and has to hold that L. HOWEVER I don't think its neigh impossible to have built a better more cohesive roster around him either. They damn near did so twice and I wouldn't call those perfect rosters by no stretch of the imagination, there was always something that was just outright bad and you have to live with it (normally the bench lol) but both time we had those good rosters were also the both times we were close to breaking through IMO. Each of the recent champs all went through some playoff failure....and most of it was due to their star's flaws imo. Giannis lack of bag. Jokic' defense. Tatum/Brown's lack of playmaking. Their FOs constantly tweaked their teams to help hide those flaws WHILE enhancing their strengths...ours took for granted that Biid could always just elevate other players with his gravity and his playstyle that relies on tough shot making and grifting would just never fall off while also expecting him to lead a top defense too as they constantly looked for the BIG MOVE down the line. They made small and quiet additions (Derrick White, Jrue twice, guys like Bruce Brown, the aforementioned Aaron Gordon trade); we every year hope for the buy out market to get us a not washed old dude because we used all of our ammo on bad moves prior.

Thats the difference IMO.

Obviously, no player can do it by themselves. Hell, Jordan couldn’t. The difference with Joel is he seems to….need everything. He needs an elite guard. He needs elite wings. He needs another big who can shoot. He needs another big that can pass and rebound because he can’t. He needs an above average backup because he’s unreliable .. you get my point. He needs leaders because he isn’t one. At some point it’s like damn.


And you even said so yourself, Biid had some of those teams we all agree fit him to tee and what happened? You blame the FO for tinkering, but I think they saw those results and how unreliable/small Joel came up and probably panicked a bit trying to get pieces around him. It didn’t work but I don’t think it’s from lack of trying. All parties have their fair share of blame but the failures of this era fall squarely at his feet IMO

Joel Embiid fits best on a team like Team USA, where they don’t rely on him to carry the load every game. They can handle stretches when he’s not fully engaged, and he can step up in specific matchups or clutch moments. In this setup, he’s more of a “final piece” rather than the “centerpiece”.

The difference between Embiid and players like Nikola Jokic and Giannis Antetokounmpo is that those guys can be the engine of their teams. When their teams make the playoffs, you can count on them to rarely miss games and bring 101% effort every night. These are the type of players you can build around as the “centerpiece,” where you just need to surround them with the right role players to succeed.

The issue with building around Embiid is his unpredictability. Sometimes he’s dominant, but other times he might not even show up mentally or physically. It’s like rolling dice—you don’t know if he’ll play, be locked in, or if his jumper will fall. So, the best setup for him is a team that doesn’t completely depend on him. They should be good enough to compete without him and let him add value as needed, like icing on the cake instead of the cake itself.