Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions

[ShootingtheJ]

I'd like to do to Delon Wright what we did to Cam Payne. After we've seen his performance compared to the alternatives, he's expendable to a liability. So we'd be served to trade him to some team who may have use.

I think you just trade Bobby, Wright, & Marjon, cuz it'd be addition by subtraction, + some teams may have more use for them. W/ Pat, I don't think you get anything of use, or a full clearance. We might want to ride it out in hopes he could be an asset in spots in the playoffs. One of the guys w/ a track record there. Unless his salary is needed to make a trade work.

If we could acquire a version this yr's version of George Hill, + Paul Reed, or Nance if we're going to have greed, that'd fill a need.

Dumping Wright before the playoffs would be short sighted. He's always turned the effort up several notches in the playoffs, and had been a defensive dynamo in the postseason while hitting 3s at a 43% clip. Hes coming off a playoff series that he hit 60% from 3.

Wright will be a great fit supporting our big 3.

[Licensed to Il]

I moved this from the other thread. It will get more responses here

Can I just ask something? Was listening to some nba podcasts and what not.

Where did the Jokic is leagues above Giannis offensively narrative start? And when did it become the accepted norm among the so-called experts? Even last season, one of Jokic's best as he easily won MVP, he averaged 26.4/12.4/9 on 65 TS% while Giannis averaged 30.4/11.5/6.5 on 65 TS%.

So 4 points less, 1 rebound more and 2.5 assists more. Are these supposed to be different tiers that cannot even be compared? Am I missing somehting?
I can understand saying he's better offensively and more consistent but to have him so far above Giannis that a conversation cannot even be had is ludicrous.

And defense is never discussed anymore in these things, like it does not even exist.

If Giannis wins one more title, he’ll be a darling in any “top ten of all time” debate. No one is saying he is better than MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Duncan, Bird, Magic, Kobe. But if he wins another title? With his stats? He’s in the convo for 8-10.

[ShootingtheJ]

Bucks Out: BP and Trent (when available)
Bucks In: Looney and GPIII

Looney would be nice but feel Bobby is a much more valuable player.

And Payton seems to be a fringe player, who got hot for a couple years but now is 32 and won't be around much longer.

Really want one solid piece coming back if they deal Bobby.

There's not many posters that like BP more than I do, but when you get my age, you realize every year it's all about the season you're in.

BP is likely gone next year, so for a rental, BP is not going to bring a haul for the future.

I'm not sure what you think you can get for him. If this was last season, then yes, he'd be much more valuable.

Most teams that trade for Bobby are trading for him partially to get his Bird rights. The Thunder are the only team I see that would want him as a rental.

[ShootingtheJ]

I moved this from the other thread. It will get more responses here

Can I just ask something? Was listening to some nba podcasts and what not.

Where did the Jokic is leagues above Giannis offensively narrative start? And when did it become the accepted norm among the so-called experts? Even last season, one of Jokic's best as he easily won MVP, he averaged 26.4/12.4/9 on 65 TS% while Giannis averaged 30.4/11.5/6.5 on 65 TS%.

So 4 points less, 1 rebound more and 2.5 assists more. Are these supposed to be different tiers that cannot even be compared? Am I missing somehting?
I can understand saying he's better offensively and more consistent but to have him so far above Giannis that a conversation cannot even be had is ludicrous.

And defense is never discussed anymore in these things, like it does not even exist.

If Giannis wins one more title, he’ll be a darling in any “top ten of all time” debate. No one is saying he is better than MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Duncan, Bird, Magic, Kobe. But if he wins another title? With his stats? He’s in the convo for 8-10.

I'm saying he's dramatically better than Kobe and Bird.

[Bernman]

Read on Twitter

32% on catch and shoot 3's, 38% on pull-ups

Last yr: 32% on catch & shoot 3's, 37% on pull-ups

Lack of ability to play off Giannis could prove a big problem. In the meantime the Bucks should rest Giannis & Dame more in games, while giving both of them their own units for an extended period each half.

BTW, his catch & shoot #'s were way better in Portland. So this is not inherent to catching the ball first, rather it seems he goes into a mental funk when he can't get into a rhythm of cooking guys off the dribble too.

[BigO]

Most posters agree the Bucks could use some interior defense and a guy who is switchable. Looney can't spread the floor, but if you want a great switchable defender, a great rebounder AND a floor spacer, then you're talking about an all star.

In the regular season, maybe, but in the playoffs, the Bucks have the best switching center in the game. We should be trying to find a big wing to play next to him. Wasting an asset on a 3rd string geezer center would be a total waste.

Looney is 28 years old. If he's a geezer, what am I?

[ShootingtheJ]

Most posters agree the Bucks could use some interior defense and a guy who is switchable. Looney can't spread the floor, but if you want a great switchable defender, a great rebounder AND a floor spacer, then you're talking about an all star.

In the regular season, maybe, but in the playoffs, the Bucks have the best switching center in the game. We should be trying to find a big wing to play next to him. Wasting an asset on a 3rd string geezer center would be a total waste.

Looney is 28 years old. If he's a geezer, what am I?

True, but his clock is ticking after getting double hip labrum surgery after his rookie year. That only lasts for so long, and is already starting to affect him.

As for you, posting keeps you young.

[RiotPunch]

Most posters agree the Bucks could use some interior defense and a guy who is switchable. Looney can't spread the floor, but if you want a great switchable defender, a great rebounder AND a floor spacer, then you're talking about an all star.

In the regular season, maybe, but in the playoffs, the Bucks have the best switching center in the game. We should be trying to find a big wing to play next to him. Wasting an asset on a 3rd string geezer center would be a total waste.

Looney is 28 years old. If he's a geezer, what am I?

BigOld

[-Jragon-]

Read on Twitter

32% on catch and shoot 3's, 38% on pull-ups

Last yr: 32% on catch & shoot 3's, 37% on pull-ups

Lack of ability to play off Giannis could prove a big problem. In the meantime the Bucks should rest Giannis & Dame more in games, while giving both of them their own units for an extended period each half.

BTW, his catch & shoot #'s were way better in Portland. So this is not inherent to catching the ball first, rather it seems he goes into a mental funk when he can't get into a rhythm of cooking guys off the dribble too.

I think it's more about getting him rolling in a game than it is about whether it's catch and shoot or pull up. Those last few 3s the other night were catch and shoot from GA.

I think this is common for star players. Imagine if Giannis/Kobe/etc. would sit on the bench for 5 min, come back in the game, and not get a shot for 6 or 7 possessions because Giannis/KM/Brook/Pat/Bobby need to shoot themselves hot. Then you finally get a shot and miss 1 so you're team thinks you're off and don't get a shot for another 7 possessions. That stifles getting "hot" and that's what happened to Dame last year. You can't let volume type dudes get too cold. (That was part of Sam Cassell's genius too -- he got everyone rolling)

We are learning this year how to get him rolling, but we can't stop that when KM comes back. I remember when we checked last year, Dame's #s with KM on the court were much worse. However we integrate KM is fine but we CAN'T change how we're using Dame.. he needs stretches where he can cook MFers and get to the line or try for his 4 point plays or whatever and his teammates have to keep being patient because when the attention amps up on him he goes back to his teammates and they that are wide the F open. That's the way forward.

[ShootingtheJ]

Read on Twitter

32% on catch and shoot 3's, 38% on pull-ups

Last yr: 32% on catch & shoot 3's, 37% on pull-ups

Lack of ability to play off Giannis could prove a big problem. In the meantime the Bucks should rest Giannis & Dame more in games, while giving both of them their own units for an extended period each half.

BTW, his catch & shoot #'s were way better in Portland. So this is not inherent to catching the ball first, rather it seems he goes into a mental funk when he can't get into a rhythm of cooking guys off the dribble too.

I think it's more about getting him rolling in a game than it is about whether it's catch and shoot or pull up. Those last few 3s the other night were catch and shoot from GA.

I think this is common for star players. Imagine if Giannis/Kobe/etc. would sit on the bench for 5 min, come back in the game, and not get a shot for 6 or 7 possessions because Giannis/KM/Brook/Pat/Bobby need to shoot themselves hot. Then you finally get a shot and miss 1 so you're team thinks you're off and don't get a shot for another 7 possessions. That stifles getting "hot" and that's what happened to Dame last year. You can't let volume type dudes get too cold. (That was part of Sam Cassell's genius too -- he got everyone rolling)

We are learning this year how to get him rolling, but we can't stop that when KM comes back. I remember when we checked last year, Dame's #s with KM on the court were much worse. However we integrate KM is fine but we CAN'T change how we're using Dame.. he needs stretches where he can cook MFers and get to the line or try for his 4 point plays or whatever and his teammates have to keep being patient because when the attention amps up on him he goes back to his teammates and they that are wide the F open. That's the way forward.

If it's that complicated for him to make shots, he's just not that good.

[Fotis St]

Somehow replace Khris and Brook with Brandon Ingram and Allen (Cavs) . Figure it out Horst.

[ShootingtheJ]

Somehow replace Khris and Brook with Brandon Ingram and Allen (Cavs) . Figure it out Horst.

Why in the world would the Cavs move Jarret Allen?

I think Ingram would be a poor fit with Giannis the same way that Ingram is a poor fit with Zion. He's also just a injury prone as Khris despite being much younger.

[pifhluk23]

Somehow replace Khris and Brook with Brandon Ingram and Allen (Cavs) . Figure it out Horst.

That sounds terrible. Ingram is a bad fit on this team. Khris is one of the best playoff performers in the entire league, honestly don't care if he plays 30 games this season as long as he's ready when it matters.

[Fotis St]

Somehow replace Khris and Brook with Brandon Ingram and Allen (Cavs) . Figure it out Horst.

That sounds terrible. Ingram is a bad fit on this team. Khris is one of the best playoff performers in the entire league, honestly don't care if he plays 30 games this season as long as he's ready when it matters.

I can't disagree. But there is a reason Giannis is injured come playoffs 2 years in row, while Khris plays 80 games total in 2 years. If you don't see a connection there, I can't say anything else to convince you otherwise. This has been discussed alot and many have acknowledge it.

Khris comeback will reduce T.Prince minutes and AJ Green minutes and shots. Their %s and self confidence will take a hit when Khris comes back. It has happened again last year and it happened again with prime Bobby being benched for the Disney joke return.

I prefer parting ways with both Brook and Khris to reduce the in team drama for minutes and shots taken.

[ShootingtheJ]

Somehow replace Khris and Brook with Brandon Ingram and Allen (Cavs) . Figure it out Horst.

That sounds terrible. Ingram is a bad fit on this team. Khris is one of the best playoff performers in the entire league, honestly don't care if he plays 30 games this season as long as he's ready when it matters.

I can't disagree. But there is a reason Giannis is injured come playoffs 2 years in row, while Khris plays 80 games total in 2 years. If you don't see a connection there, I can't say anything else to convince you otherwise. This has been discussed alot and many have acknowledge it.

Khris comeback will reduce T.Prince minutes and AJ Green minutes and shots. Their %s and self confidence will take a hit when Khris comes back. It has happened again last year and it happened again with prime Bobby being benched for the Disney joke return.

I prefer parting ways with both Brook and Khris to reduce the in team drama for minutes and shots taken.

Prince's 3% is going to regress, not because of playing time, but because no one shoots 53% from 3. Prince is a replacement level player, even when shooting 53% from 3, so he shouldn't be the guy we make plans around.

Middletons return won't have any impact on Green, other than Green getting more open shots.

[Daver]

That sounds terrible. Ingram is a bad fit on this team. Khris is one of the best playoff performers in the entire league, honestly don't care if he plays 30 games this season as long as he's ready when it matters.

I can't disagree. But there is a reason Giannis is injured come playoffs 2 years in row, while Khris plays 80 games total in 2 years. If you don't see a connection there, I can't say anything else to convince you otherwise. This has been discussed alot and many have acknowledge it.

Khris comeback will reduce T.Prince minutes and AJ Green minutes and shots. Their %s and self confidence will take a hit when Khris comes back. It has happened again last year and it happened again with prime Bobby being benched for the Disney joke return.

I prefer parting ways with both Brook and Khris to reduce the in team drama for minutes and shots taken.

Prince's 3% is going to regress, not because of playing time, but because no one shoots 53% from 3. Prince is a replacement level player, even when shooting 53% from 3, so he shouldn't be the guy we make plans around.

Middletons return won't have any impact on Green, other than Green getting more open shots.

Agree with you mr man. Midds return will be a absolute shot in the arm for the starting 5.
The big 3 have played 13 games together since dame arrived when they did they were fantastik.The bucks like i have always said if healthy that starting 5 can beat anyone anytime and challenge boston n cleveland.
Midds will get dame n green many more open shots plus midds will bring rebounding n ball handling something prince doesnt give you.
Trading midds n lopez is just fu... assinine

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

I moved this from the other thread. It will get more responses here

Can I just ask something? Was listening to some nba podcasts and what not.

Where did the Jokic is leagues above Giannis offensively narrative start? And when did it become the accepted norm among the so-called experts? Even last season, one of Jokic's best as he easily won MVP, he averaged 26.4/12.4/9 on 65 TS% while Giannis averaged 30.4/11.5/6.5 on 65 TS%.

So 4 points less, 1 rebound more and 2.5 assists more. Are these supposed to be different tiers that cannot even be compared? Am I missing somehting?
I can understand saying he's better offensively and more consistent but to have him so far above Giannis that a conversation cannot even be had is ludicrous.

And defense is never discussed anymore in these things, like it does not even exist.

If Giannis wins one more title, he’ll be a darling in any “top ten of all time” debate. No one is saying he is better than MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Duncan, Bird, Magic, Kobe. But if he wins another title? With his stats? He’s in the convo for 8-10.

To be in 8-10 convo, you would have to think he is better than 3 of Steph/Hakeem/Shaq/Duncan/Kobe (assuming we all agree Jordan, LBJ, Wilt, KAJ, Magic, Bird, Bill** are top 7) No way I put Giannis ahead of Steph, Shaq or Duncan. I don't think there is really a conversation to be had on those guys.


**I'm spent too much time on the internet because I'm becoming a Russell truther. Take his sophomore year where he got a MVP and a Ring, and a all-NBA accolade. Like ummmmmm, there were 12 teams in that league and only 3 rounds of playoffs. 3 out of the top 7 players in the league were with Boston. Dolph Schayes at 6'8 220 PF/C was the second best player in the league. IDK its just so hard to grade on a curve with that guy for the era he played in.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1958.html

[StickeeFingaz]

Can anyone share what Jim O is reporting re: Khris’s health?

[raferfenix]

Pelicans writer who had the inside scoop on Ingram hiring Klutch thinks it'll accelerate a trade:

Multiple league sources have relayed to me that the Pelicans and Jazz were deep in talks which were shut down by Ingram's lack of desire to re-sign in Salt Lake City.

This is important info, because it highlights that money is not presumably everything for Ingram. I do think it was in his best interests to just take the money, however. The cap landscape for next summer is a harsh one. Only the Brooklyn Nets project to have signficiant cap space, which will undoubtedly limit the number of Ingram suitors at the dollar figure he is seeking.

Nonetheless, either Ingram just doesn't want any part of Utah, or feels he can get comparable money in a better situation. This part remains to be seen and is what Klutch will be asked to tackle.

I expect the Ingram situation to get “messy” in a public fashion. It is entirely possible that Klutch and David Griffin can work together to find an amicable solution, but my guess is that the mess will spur action in a situation that has been quite stale for months. For this reason, I don't believe Ingram going this route is necessarily a bad thing.

The Pelicans have long needed to rip the band-aid off and this may finally be the catalyst. Regrettably, this is somewhat of a self created issue for the Pelicans. As readers of this substack know, we here have long called out the dangers of holding onto Ingram as he entered the final year of his contract. Players of his stature always have some degree of control with their threat of walking at the conclusion of the deal. The Pelicans experienced this first hand with regards to Utah.

Due to these culminating factors, I think the Pelicans won't find a robust return in any Ingram trade. Here are the key things I think they should seek to accomplish in any deal:

-Tax relief, both current and future. The Pelicans are over the tax at the moment and can't afford take on large long term contracts that will cause recurring tax issues.
-An intriguing young prospect. I am doubtful that premium draft capital will be on the table, but I do beleive some teams might be willing to part with a singular young player. The Pelicans need to indentify the young player worth pursuing. For example, could the Pistons offer salary and Ausar Thompson?
-Replenishing of second round picks. Where firsts can't be obtained, the Pelicans need to ask for seconds. As many as possible.
-Offensive minded players. The Pelicans need to continue to add offensively minded players to the roster to make everyone's job easier. This ideally needs to be on the perimeter in the form of shooting or creation, or both!

None of this is ideal, but the window for ideal is long gone.

https://intheno.substack.com/p/brandon-ingram-leaves-excel-sports

[MikeIsGood]

Can anyone share what Jim O is reporting re: Khris’s health?

An extremely random website, Footboom, just posted this - I am guessing it's from said article, but it's free.

Khris Middleton is making strides in his recovery, but he's careful not to overstate his progress as the prepare for their upcoming Emirates Cup showdown in Detroit. The veteran forward recently shared his thoughts with the Journal Sentinel, expressing his desire to return to the court.

"It's the same, man," he said. "I feel good. I feel like I'm progressing. It's just slower. Slower than I want it to be. I want to be out there, and my teammates want me to be out there. I don't think there's anybody that wants to play more than me. You know that. I think some people know that in our organization. I just gotta be smart and not go out there until I'm fully ready."

[Non-basketball stuff]

Yet, the conversation surrounding his recovery from offseason surgeries on both ankles remains a hot topic as December kicks into gear. On October 31, Middleton revealed that his surgeries had been successful and that he had received medical clearance to engage in three-on-three training. He has since made incremental progress, moving on to four-on-four and recently five-on-five practices over the past week. "I think people have to take into account I had ankle surgery - I had two ankle surgeries - so I mean, things take a little bit longer," he noted. "I won't say things are harder, but you just have to make sure everything is balanced and functioning properly. That's all."