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Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep

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Re: Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep 

Post#21 » by patryk7754 » Mon Dec 2, 2024 4:31 pm

panthermark wrote:
patryk7754 wrote:According to Stacy Dales, Brown didn't talk to Williams until he became OC

How is that even possible?

The passing came coordinator does not talk to the QB? Are they not in meetings or film study sessions together?

Are any other franchises like this?

her words implied that it's not the passing game coordinator's job, necessarily, to be involved with the QB. His job is to work with Waldron in cooking up the gameplan so Brown let Waldron, Joseph, and Eberflus coach up Williams and he didn't want to make it "too many cooks in the kitchen"

Apparently, the run game coordinator was also basically ignored by waldron. Heard all this on separate radio streams so idk how to share.

Stacy also said brown has brought an anonymous coaches' love for coaching back. Sounds like it was a **** show under Eberflus and
Waldron. More than what we could see on the surface level
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Re: Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep 

Post#22 » by Chi town » Mon Dec 2, 2024 4:31 pm

patryk7754 wrote:
Chi town wrote:
patryk7754 wrote:According to Stacy Dales, Brown didn't talk to Williams until he became OC


I’ve heard this repeatedly.

I don’t they it at all. How did he not?

Stacy said Brown felt like there were "too many cooks in the kitchen". Probably saw what was going on with the Panthers and learned a lesson. So he decided to be in the background. But he was still paying attention and as soon as he became OC, started pointing things out to Williams that he was doing poorly. Things like footwork and how he hands the ball off. Something that apparently wasn't happening with Waldron


I think we are just going to hear more and more ridiculous dysfunction and incompetence leak out about Waldron and Flus.

Bears want a leader of men and from first signs it seems TB is that. Can’t wait to watch him on the sidelines the rest of the season. He knows his job is dependent on CW’s development. I think we will see lots of interaction with them.

Hope to see an energized football team flying around and executing.

If we win out do we still have a shot at the WC?
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Re: Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep 

Post#23 » by patryk7754 » Mon Dec 2, 2024 4:36 pm

Also just heard heard from ESPN radio people recaping a previous show where "Kap" said "even if Poles wanted to move on from Eberflus after last season or the Patriots game, he wasn't allowed too". I keep hearing more and more that getting rid of Eberflus was a matter of Warren and Poles convincing McCaskey and not if he was a Poles or Warren guy. Also keep hearing people say that the reason Eberflus ended up doing the press conference right before being fired was because the meeting being had was Poles and Warren convincing McCaskey to fire him....So yeah, it seems to me like Poles holds little blame when it comes to Eberflus. It was an errange marriage from the beginning (even if he had a short list to choose from) and it seems like he hasn't been able to make the final decision on firing/retaining him until this past week
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Re: Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep 

Post#24 » by MAQ » Mon Dec 2, 2024 4:41 pm

patryk7754 wrote:Also just heard heard from ESPN radio people recaping a previous show where "Kap" said "even if Poles wanted to move on from Eberflus after last season or the Patriots game, he wasn't allowed too". I keep hearing more and more that getting rid of Eberflus was a matter of Warren and Poles convincing McCaskey and not if he was a Poles or Warren guy. Also keep hearing people say that the reason Eberflus ended up doing the press conference right before being fired was because the meeting being had was Poles and Warren convincing McCaskey to fire him....So yeah, it seems to me like Poles holds little blame when it comes to Eberflus. It was an errange marriage from the beginning (even if he had a short list to choose from) and it seems like he hasn't been able to make the final decision on firing/retaining him until this past week

Pretty sure fleet posted in the last thread that Poles and Warren made the case to fire Flus after the Lions game to George but George wasn't ready to act immediately. Which actually isn't the worst thing I've ever heard...in fact, some logic in not acting out of emotion.

But regardless, I buy that story. I buy George being the one setting up a meeting for 9 a.m., same time as the Flus presser. It's just a comedy of errors thanks to the very top leadership in the organization.

If I were Poles, I'd be reaching out to see what other jobs are open and interested. He's not allowed to do the job. He's a figure head with a title here.
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Re: Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep 

Post#25 » by patryk7754 » Mon Dec 2, 2024 4:47 pm

Chi town wrote:
patryk7754 wrote:
Chi town wrote:
I’ve heard this repeatedly.

I don’t they it at all. How did he not?

Stacy said Brown felt like there were "too many cooks in the kitchen". Probably saw what was going on with the Panthers and learned a lesson. So he decided to be in the background. But he was still paying attention and as soon as he became OC, started pointing things out to Williams that he was doing poorly. Things like footwork and how he hands the ball off. Something that apparently wasn't happening with Waldron


I think we are just going to hear more and more ridiculous dysfunction and incompetence leak out about Waldron and Flus.

Bears want a leader of men and from first signs it seems TB is that. Can’t wait to watch him on the sidelines the rest of the season. He knows his job is dependent on CW’s development. I think we will see lots of interaction with them.

Hope to see an energized football team flying around and executing.

If we win out do we still have a shot at the WC?

we'd be 9-8 and the only team we have a realisitc chance of catching is the Commanders who are 8-5. they have four games left and are unlikely to go 1-3 against the saints, eagles, falcons, and cowboys - especially now the Daniels looks healthy again. They also have the tie break against us.

The bucs are 6-6 and I think they win the division. The falcons are also 6-6 but I wouldn't be surprised if they only win one or two more games. I think other then the Commanders, the Cardinals and 49ers are our biggest concerns. The cardinals have a tie breaker over us but they seem to be trending downwards. The 49ers have been terrible but I won't be surprised if the flip a switch and win out , which would give them a tie breaker over us as well, but it wouldn't matter becuase that means we don;t win out. Rams could be in that convo as well but we have the tie breaker over them.

Im not sure if i want them to win out. We probably miss the playoffs anyway and it would just emphasize what a wasted season this has been. If Brown can go 5-0 against three of the top 6ish teams in the NFL (one of which is probably going to win the SB), a tough and probable division winner in the Seahawks, and a team that was in the SB last year, what does that mean If we had an competent coach from the start? we wouldn't even be concerned about making the playoffs - just playing for seeding
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Re: Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep 

Post#26 » by patryk7754 » Mon Dec 2, 2024 4:50 pm

MAQ wrote:
patryk7754 wrote:Also just heard heard from ESPN radio people recaping a previous show where "Kap" said "even if Poles wanted to move on from Eberflus after last season or the Patriots game, he wasn't allowed too". I keep hearing more and more that getting rid of Eberflus was a matter of Warren and Poles convincing McCaskey and not if he was a Poles or Warren guy. Also keep hearing people say that the reason Eberflus ended up doing the press conference right before being fired was because the meeting being had was Poles and Warren convincing McCaskey to fire him....So yeah, it seems to me like Poles holds little blame when it comes to Eberflus. It was an errange marriage from the beginning (even if he had a short list to choose from) and it seems like he hasn't been able to make the final decision on firing/retaining him until this past week

Pretty sure fleet posted in the last thread that Poles and Warren made the case to fire Flus after the Lions game to George but George wasn't ready to act immediately. Which actually isn't the worst thing I've ever heard...in fact, some logic in not acting out of emotion.

But regardless, I buy that story. I buy George being the one setting up a meeting for 9 a.m., same time as the Flus presser. It's just a comedy of errors thanks to the very top leadership in the organization.

If I were Poles, I'd be reaching out to see what other jobs are open and interested. He's not allowed to do the job. He's a figure head with a title here.

I agree that its best not to make those types of decision out of emotion but I would disagree that it would have been an emotional decision to fire him right after the game. It would have been an Epiphany. He should have been fired out of emotion after last years broncos game...but jokes aside, Eberflus deserved a better exit, regardless of how terrible he is a HC.
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Re: Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep 

Post#27 » by Dresden » Mon Dec 2, 2024 5:04 pm

MAQ wrote:
patryk7754 wrote:Also just heard heard from ESPN radio people recaping a previous show where "Kap" said "even if Poles wanted to move on from Eberflus after last season or the Patriots game, he wasn't allowed too". I keep hearing more and more that getting rid of Eberflus was a matter of Warren and Poles convincing McCaskey and not if he was a Poles or Warren guy. Also keep hearing people say that the reason Eberflus ended up doing the press conference right before being fired was because the meeting being had was Poles and Warren convincing McCaskey to fire him....So yeah, it seems to me like Poles holds little blame when it comes to Eberflus. It was an errange marriage from the beginning (even if he had a short list to choose from) and it seems like he hasn't been able to make the final decision on firing/retaining him until this past week

Pretty sure fleet posted in the last thread that Poles and Warren made the case to fire Flus after the Lions game to George but George wasn't ready to act immediately. Which actually isn't the worst thing I've ever heard...in fact, some logic in not acting out of emotion.

But regardless, I buy that story. I buy George being the one setting up a meeting for 9 a.m., same time as the Flus presser. It's just a comedy of errors thanks to the very top leadership in the organization.

If I were Poles, I'd be reaching out to see what other jobs are open and interested. He's not allowed to do the job. He's a figure head with a title here.


Unless has information to the contrary, Poles still has plenty to do with roster make up. He pursues free agents, makes draft decisions, etc. And has plenty of input on things like hiring/firing coaches. He just doesn't have final say.

One by one the bad apples are being eliminated. First they got rid of a poor QB, then two poor OC's, now a poor HC. Soon Poles will have the team he wants. I don't see why he'd want to leave now.
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Re: Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep 

Post#28 » by dougthonus » Mon Dec 2, 2024 5:09 pm

Dresden wrote:I was never sold on Harbaugh as a HC, seeing how badly things ended up for him in SF. He has a limited shelf life- at the end of his tenure here, despite his success, it was almost unanimous that he had to go- players, the front office, they all were tired of him. I'm waiting to see how long he lasts in LA. Maybe he's learned to get along with people better. But it wouldn't shock me if that doesn't work out so well.


Head coaches are almost always destined to burn out after a relatively short window. I wouldn't worry about that at all. I'd think who will be the best guy for a 3 year window.
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Re: Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep 

Post#29 » by dougthonus » Mon Dec 2, 2024 5:11 pm

patryk7754 wrote:Stacy also said brown has brought an anonymous coaches' love for coaching back. Sounds like it was a **** show under Eberflus and
Waldron. More than what we could see on the surface level


I don't mean to say this as a defense of anyone who was canned. Waldron and Flus seemed pretty bad.

However, it's also structural changes 101 to pin everything bad on the leavers to empower the stayers.
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Re: Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep 

Post#30 » by dougthonus » Mon Dec 2, 2024 5:16 pm

patryk7754 wrote:Also just heard heard from ESPN radio people recaping a previous show where "Kap" said "even if Poles wanted to move on from Eberflus after last season or the Patriots game, he wasn't allowed too". I keep hearing more and more that getting rid of Eberflus was a matter of Warren and Poles convincing McCaskey and not if he was a Poles or Warren guy. Also keep hearing people say that the reason Eberflus ended up doing the press conference right before being fired was because the meeting being had was Poles and Warren convincing McCaskey to fire him....So yeah, it seems to me like Poles holds little blame when it comes to Eberflus. It was an errange marriage from the beginning (even if he had a short list to choose from) and it seems like he hasn't been able to make the final decision on firing/retaining him until this past week


McCaskey in the few times I've heard him speak didn't seem like he was a Jerry Jones type of meddler at this layer of detail, but I don't follow the politics at that level too closely, so I may be totally incorrect on that front, but feels to me like this is could be a bit of a PR thing for other folks or a way for someone to grind an axe about ownership that they want to grind.

I guess we'll never know, just doesn't smell right to me that McCaskey stepped up and said "no you can't do this" last year. The part about the press conference or not doing something in-season, I could easily see being on George though.
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Re: Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep 

Post#31 » by Dresden » Mon Dec 2, 2024 5:48 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Dresden wrote:I was never sold on Harbaugh as a HC, seeing how badly things ended up for him in SF. He has a limited shelf life- at the end of his tenure here, despite his success, it was almost unanimous that he had to go- players, the front office, they all were tired of him. I'm waiting to see how long he lasts in LA. Maybe he's learned to get along with people better. But it wouldn't shock me if that doesn't work out so well.


Head coaches are almost always destined to burn out after a relatively short window. I wouldn't worry about that at all. I'd think who will be the best guy for a 3 year window.


I don't think the good ones do. There's currently 10 HC's with at least 5 years in the same job.
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Re: Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep 

Post#32 » by patryk7754 » Mon Dec 2, 2024 6:10 pm

I think our OL has to be 98% rebuilt. I don't care about age or chemistry. If we sign older guys who have/are all-pro/pro bowl level players then chemistry won't be an issue (and its not like we have a lot of that now). Age is irrelevant. Signing these older guys for 2/3 years gives us the best chance to have a good OL immediately. Plus, signing guys now doesn't not restrict us from drafting and developing (which is critical for college offensive linemen and a lack of it is why there are so few of them that are actually good) in this draft and the next couple of drafts.

First thing I would do as the new head coach (I think (want) it will be Ben Johnson) is tell Poles to pay the Eagles OL coach (Sutherland?) whatever it takes to hire him. If that doesn't work out, I bring over the Asst OL coach from the Lions.

Next I would sign these players

LT: Ronnie Stanley, 2/40
OG: Trey Smith, 5/100
C: Ryan Kelly, 2/24
OG: Kevin Zeitler, 1/5

Backup T: LeRaven Clark 1/2
Backup G/T: Matt Pryor

Trade Braxton Jones for 3rd (if not more. not sure what his value would be going into his last season). Doesn't really have value on the roster as a backup. He has no future and he'll probably ask out after signing/drafting a LT anyway.

What I would do in the draft:
Depending on who is available when we pick in the 1st, I might want to trade down to add picks but for now i'll just go with what we have.

RD2: Donovann Jackson, IOL
RD3: Grey Zabel, OT
RD3: Jonah Monheim, C/IOL/OT

Our OL heading into the season

LT: Stanley/Zabel
LG: Smith/Jackson
C: Kelly/Bates/Monheim
RG: Zeitler/Pryor
RT: Wright/Clark

I think this strategy is as foolproof as it gets. We have our established/proven vets to start, a couple backup vets just in case of injury, and a few rookies who don't have the pressure to start right away and can learn and develop to eventually take over.

The one downside of this strategy is that it would limit our ability to make a big move at DE or DT in free agency and we will need to hit in the 1st and 2nd round on rookies. With about 80m in cap, the free agent linemen would eat about 60m in cap and I think we are more likely to resign Keenan Allen than not, meaning the rest of our cap space would have to be used to resign our own free agents.

I would supplement the OL moves with drafting Mason Graham (DT) in the 1st and JT Tumoloau (DE) in the 2nd. Morgan Fox and Donte Fowler would be my top cheap targets at DE. It would be nice if we could end up with enough cap to sign Mack but that's doubtful. I would also target Levi Wallace (CB) and Von Bell (S) as minimum vet guys to sign to the secondary (assuming Terrell Smith doesn't get a chance at CB2 over stevenson)
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Re: Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep 

Post#33 » by biggestbullsfan » Mon Dec 2, 2024 6:17 pm

Read on Twitter


Poles definitely felt tied to Flus. You could tell it was tough for him. But maybe this allows him to be more removed emotionally moving forward.
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Re: Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep 

Post#34 » by biggestbullsfan » Mon Dec 2, 2024 6:33 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep 

Post#35 » by jnrjr79 » Mon Dec 2, 2024 6:33 pm

dougthonus wrote:
jnrjr79 wrote:This is off to me. Brown was the Assistant Head Coach under McVeigh, in addition to being a position coach, which is significant in terms of how McVeigh saw him. He'll have called plays for the Panthers and Bears and will have now had limited head coaching experience. Contrary to the "I would wager he as nowhere near a HC candidate prior to this," he was interviewed for multiple head coaching openings in recent offseassons (Dolphins, Texans, Titans).

In no way do I just want to do the easy thing and say Brown gets it if the season ends on a pleasant note. But the idea that you'd just categorically take him out of the mix rather than let him compete for the job among other candidates seems like incredibly narrow thinking to me.


:dontknow:

Maybe I'm underplaying his resume a bit. He's had 1 full season as a coordinator, and all his other seasons are below coordinator status, though you are right about being RB coach + assistant head coach, that's a weird set up to me, so not sure of his responsibilities under McVeigh, and I agree that McVeigh must have liked him a lot and saw good potential in him to do that.

That said, 1 year as an OC, no previous HC experience, and 2 years as a RB + Assistant HC seems on the weaker side to become a HC in general. The one year he was OC, he led the worst offense in the league, and though I'm not pinning that disaster on him, it sure isn't a feather in his cap, I mean it literally couldn't have gone much worse.


Yeah, I certainly agree the resume isn't as deep as it could be. It's interesting, though, that he got HC interviews both before and after his year in Carolina, so it's probably right that people aren't pinning the Carolina experience on him (and that they thought enough of him to give him a HC interview before he'd ever been a coordinator). I assume a lot of this is that the McVeigh tree/young guy candidate has been something of a hot commodity the past several seasons. I also do not want to be cynical or suggest this in any way has to do with his merits, but I suppose it's also possible some teams elevated him up the chart for Rooney Rule compliance, so it could be a two birds/one stone situation.

That said, you're right that I've overstated my point. I'm completely fine giving Brown a chance to win the job. I have some concern that we'd overrate a dead cat bounce and seeing "oh this is so much better than it was under Flus" that we overrate whatever has happened.


It's definitely a concern and probably merits some conversation around what you'd need to see from him to take him seriously. I would think there's a real risk that McCaskey would overreact if, say, the Bears have a good win over Green Bay to end the season.

My preference would be to hire a Harbaugh like candidate if one emerges, someone who is coaching gold and will cost a gazillion dollars and you don't have to think about it one way or the other about whether he's good, but the reality is that there is likely no such candidate like that out there, so I'm probably being unfair if we're going the coordinator route, Brown should get as much a shot as the next guy.

Ben Johnson's got 3 years as an OC of one of the best offenses in the league and a huge surprise story, so I think that's a stronger resume than Brown, but if Brown were to have this team kicking butt down the stretch as interim, he should have a fair shot to interview.


Yeah, the only thing that concerns me about Johnson - or more accurately is just an unknown - is how he'll be as a leader. There are lots of creative coordinators who struggle in the lead role, which is why I can see the Harbaugh type being a better bet. I'm just not sure yet who, outside of Belichick, that would be this year.

This is the one advantage Brown has - the Bears will get a real look at his leadership abilities, rather than just "oh, this guy calls plays well."
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Re: Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep 

Post#36 » by patryk7754 » Mon Dec 2, 2024 6:40 pm

biggestbullsfan wrote:
Read on Twitter

This dude did more coaching in a 3 min tweet than eberflus did in 3 years
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Re: Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep 

Post#37 » by MalagaBulls » Mon Dec 2, 2024 6:47 pm

I liked Brown's direct approach of taking everything 1 step at a time. He has a lot on his plate and if he delivers a couple of wins and they end up 6-11 but Caleb continues to progress I think that would be a good end to the season. I think he will get a fair shot to interview for the HC role and it should be a very competitive & through process, if you have any faith in Warren's statement about George letting them "throw all the resources needed" to find the right HC.
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Re: Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep 

Post#38 » by Jcool0 » Mon Dec 2, 2024 6:59 pm

biggestbullsfan wrote:
Read on Twitter


He might end up being a great coach... But in no way can the Bears hire him.
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Re: Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep 

Post#39 » by Dresden » Mon Dec 2, 2024 7:19 pm

MalagaBulls wrote:I liked Brown's direct approach of taking everything 1 step at a time. He has a lot on his plate and if he delivers a couple of wins and they end up 6-11 but Caleb continues to progress I think that would be a good end to the season. I think he will get a fair shot to interview for the HC role and it should be a very competitive & through process, if you have any faith in Warren's statement about George letting them "throw all the resources needed" to find the right HC.


This is something Brad Biggs said in a column several weeks ago- that money should not be an issue with the HC hire. I wonder if that will still be true when someone like Johnson asks for 10 mil a year for 5 years. What did Harbaugh get?

I think a big factor on whether TB gets the job or not is how the players respond these next 5 games. They'll be interviewed at the end of the season, and I'm sure that's the first thing they'll be asked. If he doesn't have the strong support of most players, I don't think they'll give him much consideration.
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Re: Bears 9.0: Thomas Brown HC audition, offseason/draft prep 

Post#40 » by fleet » Mon Dec 2, 2024 7:36 pm

When pressed on who will have the final say in the decision on the next head coach if there's disagreement among Bears leaders, Warren indicated it would be Poles.

"We'll work that out," Warren said. "He's the general manager, he's the head of football operations, so he will have the final say if it ever got to that point. I'm confident we'll work through it."


Translation: ‘Poles has the final say, as long as he agrees with me’

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