[Will Lou] We asked Darko Rajakovic if he's comfortable with Scottie Barnes taking over 7 threes a game sin

[Vampirate]

There’s no point working on stuff in practice that you’re not doing in the game. Nothing is mastered in practice. It needs to happen in game contexts. Siakam was a woeful shooter but he kept shooting em and now he’s respectable and last I checked was even pretty good from deep.

I agree with mdenny that it’s important he get comfortable taking these shots now so that when we really need him to take them he will be doing something he’s already tried before. Transition threes look awful when you brick them, but we all remember Kawhi starting the second half of Game 4 against the warriors with the two eff you threes. It would be amazing if Scottie could develop that kind of confidence and ability with his shooting.

We are trying to build a superstar and Scottie is going to need a jumper to open up his drive and kick game, which is where his real strength is. But if guys aren’t afraid of his jumper then the dangerous parts of his game become easier to shut down.

Raptors are playing the long game here.

Nobody is going to be afraid of a guy shooting 17% is the point.

No one is complaining about him occasionally taking those shots, it's the frequency of them that is the concern. If you can't even be average at a MUCH easier shot in the C&S, it stands to reason you won't get magically better at way harder shots by taking less than 200 in an entire season. The pull up 3's he is taking are completely uncontested, that's no different than doing it in practice.

How about he practices C&S 3's, or a pull up jumper at the elbow, or learning to use his bulk to punish people down low. All 3 of those options would open up his game 100x more than a pull up 3 from ATB. The midrange would benefit him the absolute most, with the added bonus of getting pull up reps in, which can then be extended out to the 3.

I've said it a bunch already, learn to walk before you run.

I'd already said this, but the #1 thing I want to see most is him actually breaking down his defender at the top of the key.

What he does when that happens is another thing entirely, but that's what he truly needs, or more accurately the team needs long term.

We need him to become a real half court scorer/creator.

He needs snap backs, side steps, counters and step back's etc in his game. And yes, a pull up 3 from this.

I think the combination of his length and an improving handle can get him there, but time will tell.

[Tripod]

Personally I want him to take 3's....but di it in the flow of the offense and when it's catch n shoot. I don't want him taking 3's early in the clock off the dribble. We can get a better shot than that.

We do have to remember, we are not that far removed from guys sagging off him big time and not even engaging him until he got to the key.

So him being able to take and make those catch n shoot 3's have made a difference in how defenses have to play him.

Anyone know his c&s #'s the last 2 years?

As ATL mentioned 35 and 38%, but more importantly it puts him in the lower half of the NBA for similar sample sizes. It's why I've been saying he needs to at least become a good C&S shooter, before launching the shots he's taking right now.

Shooting 17% isn't going to get anyone comfortable with anything other than sucking and taking hits to their confidence.

Yeah I am fine with him taking shots that have a 35% success rate for himself and trying to get that to improve over time. Get used to shooting from that distance when it is most beneficial....and that's c&s...not pull-ups.

And hey, that goes for RJ too. IQ seems to have that ability, without looking at numbers.

[Scase]

There’s no point working on stuff in practice that you’re not doing in the game. Nothing is mastered in practice. It needs to happen in game contexts. Siakam was a woeful shooter but he kept shooting em and now he’s respectable and last I checked was even pretty good from deep.

I agree with mdenny that it’s important he get comfortable taking these shots now so that when we really need him to take them he will be doing something he’s already tried before. Transition threes look awful when you brick them, but we all remember Kawhi starting the second half of Game 4 against the warriors with the two eff you threes. It would be amazing if Scottie could develop that kind of confidence and ability with his shooting.

We are trying to build a superstar and Scottie is going to need a jumper to open up his drive and kick game, which is where his real strength is. But if guys aren’t afraid of his jumper then the dangerous parts of his game become easier to shut down.

Raptors are playing the long game here.

Nobody is going to be afraid of a guy shooting 17% is the point.

No one is complaining about him occasionally taking those shots, it's the frequency of them that is the concern. If you can't even be average at a MUCH easier shot in the C&S, it stands to reason you won't get magically better at way harder shots by taking less than 200 in an entire season. The pull up 3's he is taking are completely uncontested, that's no different than doing it in practice.

How about he practices C&S 3's, or a pull up jumper at the elbow, or learning to use his bulk to punish people down low. All 3 of those options would open up his game 100x more than a pull up 3 from ATB. The midrange would benefit him the absolute most, with the added bonus of getting pull up reps in, which can then be extended out to the 3.

I've said it a bunch already, learn to walk before you run.

I'd already said this, but the #1 thing I want to see most is him actually breaking down his defender at the top of the key.

What he does when that happens is another thing entirely, but that's what he truly needs, or more accurately the team needs long term.

We need him to become a real half court scorer/creator.

He needs snap backs, side steps, counters and step back's etc in his game. And yes, a pull up 3 from this.

I think the combination of his length and an improving handle can get him there, but time will tell.

Now you're encroaching into wishful thinking territory. I don't think Scottie will ever be a real half court scorer with those types of offensive moves, and I think forcing him into that role will just end up stunting his growth in skills that he has the tools to get better at.

Scottie isn't fast, he doesn't have the ball on a string, he isn't a lights out shooter, instead of trying to forcibly develop things that he's already years, it not a decade + behind his peers who can do that, we should be focusing on what he does well, and what he already has the skills and the physical attributes for.

He's strong so he can bully, he's big so he can shoot over most defenders, and he's a very smart and willing passer. Jacking up those poor quality 3's, is like asking FVV to post up Steven Adams.

[Vampirate]

Nobody is going to be afraid of a guy shooting 17% is the point.

No one is complaining about him occasionally taking those shots, it's the frequency of them that is the concern. If you can't even be average at a MUCH easier shot in the C&S, it stands to reason you won't get magically better at way harder shots by taking less than 200 in an entire season. The pull up 3's he is taking are completely uncontested, that's no different than doing it in practice.

How about he practices C&S 3's, or a pull up jumper at the elbow, or learning to use his bulk to punish people down low. All 3 of those options would open up his game 100x more than a pull up 3 from ATB. The midrange would benefit him the absolute most, with the added bonus of getting pull up reps in, which can then be extended out to the 3.

I've said it a bunch already, learn to walk before you run.

I'd already said this, but the #1 thing I want to see most is him actually breaking down his defender at the top of the key.

What he does when that happens is another thing entirely, but that's what he truly needs, or more accurately the team needs long term.

We need him to become a real half court scorer/creator.

He needs snap backs, side steps, counters and step back's etc in his game. And yes, a pull up 3 from this.

I think the combination of his length and an improving handle can get him there, but time will tell.

Now you're encroaching into wishful thinking territory. I don't think Scottie will ever be a real half court scorer with those types of offensive moves, and I think forcing him into that role will just end up stunting his growth in skills that he has the tools to get better at.

Scottie isn't fast, he doesn't have the ball on a string, he isn't a lights out shooter, instead of trying to forcibly develop things that he's already years, it not a decade + behind his peers who can do that, we should be focusing on what he does well, and what he already has the skills and the physical attributes for.

He's strong so he can bully, he's big so he can shoot over most defenders, and he's a very smart and willing passer. Jacking up those poor quality 3's, is like asking FVV to post up Steven Adams.

I'm not talking about the pull up 3 from 30 feet out with 12 seconds on the shot clock, i'm referring to when he's being guarded on the perimeter by a very good perimeter defender, he needs counters to specifically that.

I'm aware he's not going to blow by the defender with a first step, but I think it's possible he could add some hesi into his ball handling and i've seen glimpses of it.

Essentially get the defender off balance.

[Scase]

I'd already said this, but the #1 thing I want to see most is him actually breaking down his defender at the top of the key.

What he does when that happens is another thing entirely, but that's what he truly needs, or more accurately the team needs long term.

We need him to become a real half court scorer/creator.

He needs snap backs, side steps, counters and step back's etc in his game. And yes, a pull up 3 from this.

I think the combination of his length and an improving handle can get him there, but time will tell.

Now you're encroaching into wishful thinking territory. I don't think Scottie will ever be a real half court scorer with those types of offensive moves, and I think forcing him into that role will just end up stunting his growth in skills that he has the tools to get better at.

Scottie isn't fast, he doesn't have the ball on a string, he isn't a lights out shooter, instead of trying to forcibly develop things that he's already years, it not a decade + behind his peers who can do that, we should be focusing on what he does well, and what he already has the skills and the physical attributes for.

He's strong so he can bully, he's big so he can shoot over most defenders, and he's a very smart and willing passer. Jacking up those poor quality 3's, is like asking FVV to post up Steven Adams.

I'm not talking about the pull up 3 from 30 feet out with 12 seconds on the shot clock, i'm referring to when he's being guarded on the perimeter by a very good perimeter defender, he needs counters to specifically that.

I'm aware he's not going to blow by the defender with a first step, but I think it's possible he could add some hesi into his ball handling and i've seen glimpses of it.

Essentially get the defender off balance.

Well yeah, every player needs a counter to it, the discussion is around whether or not he's the type of player that can develop that. The two solutions are lights out shooter, or elite first step, Scottie is/has neither. And neither of them are something he will develop. We need to be realistic here, the benefit Scottie does have that he might be able to use in those situations is his size and shooting over the defender. But that still requires him to be a very good shooter.

When I think of a "very good perimeter defender" I think of someone like OG, and a hesi in his ball handling repertoire would not shake him. Scottie can be many things, a legit scoring threat from the 3 point line with a very good defender on him, is not likely to be one of them.

Square peg, round hole, and so on. Forcing him to be something he isn't, won't help the team or him. And it's not a bad thing that he can't do these things, we just need to find someone who can. Different players have different skill sets, this is not one of his, and that's fine.

RJ does an admirable job facilitating, but he isn't even remotely on the same level of Scottie, so asking him to focus on that makes no sense. This is the same concept, there are very few players in NBA history that have the skills Scottie does AND scoring like what you are suggesting, like we're talking the Lebrons, Magics, Jokics, etc.

Would I like him to be able to be a solid 2nd option in those situations? Absolutely, but trying to force him into something he isn't cut out for just seems like a waste of time.

[Vampirate]

Now you're encroaching into wishful thinking territory. I don't think Scottie will ever be a real half court scorer with those types of offensive moves, and I think forcing him into that role will just end up stunting his growth in skills that he has the tools to get better at.

Scottie isn't fast, he doesn't have the ball on a string, he isn't a lights out shooter, instead of trying to forcibly develop things that he's already years, it not a decade + behind his peers who can do that, we should be focusing on what he does well, and what he already has the skills and the physical attributes for.

He's strong so he can bully, he's big so he can shoot over most defenders, and he's a very smart and willing passer. Jacking up those poor quality 3's, is like asking FVV to post up Steven Adams.

I'm not talking about the pull up 3 from 30 feet out with 12 seconds on the shot clock, i'm referring to when he's being guarded on the perimeter by a very good perimeter defender, he needs counters to specifically that.

I'm aware he's not going to blow by the defender with a first step, but I think it's possible he could add some hesi into his ball handling and i've seen glimpses of it.

Essentially get the defender off balance.

Well yeah, every player needs a counter to it, the discussion is around whether or not he's the type of player that can develop that. The two solutions are lights out shooter, or elite first step, Scottie is/has neither. And neither of them are something he will develop. We need to be realistic here, the benefit Scottie does have that he might be able to use in those situations is his size and shooting over the defender. But that still requires him to be a very good shooter.

When I think of a "very good perimeter defender" I think of someone like OG, and a hesi in his ball handling repertoire would not shake him. Scottie can be many things, a legit scoring threat from the 3 point line with a very good defender on him, is not likely to be one of them.

Square peg, round hole, and so on. Forcing him to be something he isn't, won't help the team or him. And it's not a bad thing that he can't do these things, we just need to find someone who can. Different players have different skill sets, this is not one of his, and that's fine.

RJ does an admirable job facilitating, but he isn't even remotely on the same level of Scottie, so asking him to focus on that makes no sense. This is the same concept, there are very few players in NBA history that have the skills Scottie does AND scoring like what you are suggesting, like we're talking the Lebrons, Magics, Jokics, etc.

Would I like him to be able to be a solid 2nd option in those situations? Absolutely, but trying to force him into something he isn't cut out for just seems like a waste of time.

Time will ultimately tell, but you also have to factor in from how he was when we drafted him to where he is at now.

Also creating from the perimeter could also mean creating holes for a pass as well. I think his passing game will help open up holes in the defense because they are more than aware of it.

In other words his scoring will help his passing game, but that's also true in reverse.

This is probably the season anyways to see can far he can take the team like this because if he clutches a victory, cool. If we lose, also cool.

Only 10 games but there's a few stats to like.

Out of his 2P, he's only being assisted by .364 of the time, his Ftr has climbed quite a bit and he's at .500 for now from 10-16 feet.

He and Franz are close with 2P% Franz at .528, Barnes at .526 (Sengun has also started slow offensively, he's at .495).

What those 2 have over Barnes is they are much better defenders thus far.

[HiJiNX]

I hear what you’re saying Scase but what is the threshold of Scottie being good enough at catch and shoot threes that he’s now allowed to shoot pull ups? He will need game reps eventually. Just get them out of the way now.

And it’s not like Barnes doesn’t take shots from other areas. Where I agree with you though is that Scottie shouldn’t be initiating primarily from the perimeter.

[Scase]

I'm not talking about the pull up 3 from 30 feet out with 12 seconds on the shot clock, i'm referring to when he's being guarded on the perimeter by a very good perimeter defender, he needs counters to specifically that.

I'm aware he's not going to blow by the defender with a first step, but I think it's possible he could add some hesi into his ball handling and i've seen glimpses of it.

Essentially get the defender off balance.

Well yeah, every player needs a counter to it, the discussion is around whether or not he's the type of player that can develop that. The two solutions are lights out shooter, or elite first step, Scottie is/has neither. And neither of them are something he will develop. We need to be realistic here, the benefit Scottie does have that he might be able to use in those situations is his size and shooting over the defender. But that still requires him to be a very good shooter.

When I think of a "very good perimeter defender" I think of someone like OG, and a hesi in his ball handling repertoire would not shake him. Scottie can be many things, a legit scoring threat from the 3 point line with a very good defender on him, is not likely to be one of them.

Square peg, round hole, and so on. Forcing him to be something he isn't, won't help the team or him. And it's not a bad thing that he can't do these things, we just need to find someone who can. Different players have different skill sets, this is not one of his, and that's fine.

RJ does an admirable job facilitating, but he isn't even remotely on the same level of Scottie, so asking him to focus on that makes no sense. This is the same concept, there are very few players in NBA history that have the skills Scottie does AND scoring like what you are suggesting, like we're talking the Lebrons, Magics, Jokics, etc.

Would I like him to be able to be a solid 2nd option in those situations? Absolutely, but trying to force him into something he isn't cut out for just seems like a waste of time.

Time will ultimately tell, but you also have to factor in from how he was when we drafted him to where he is at now.

Also creating from the perimeter could also mean creating holes for a pass as well. I think his passing game will help open up holes in the defense because they are more than aware of it.

In other words his scoring will help his passing game, but that's also true in reverse.

This is probably the season anyways to see can far he can take the team like this because if he clutches a victory, cool. If we lose, also cool.

Only 10 games but there's a few stats to like.

Out of his 2P, he's only being assisted by .364 of the time, his Ftr has climbed quite a bit and he's at .500 for now from 10-16 feet.

He and Franz are close with 2P% Franz at .528, Barnes at .526 (Sengun has also started slow offensively, he's at .495).

What those 2 have over Barnes is they are much better defenders thus far.

I agree with basically everything you said here, I just don't think a pull up 3 is what unlocks his game.

I hear what you’re saying Scase but what is the threshold of Scottie being good enough at catch and shoot threes that he’s now allowed to shoot pull ups? He will need game reps eventually. Just get them out of the way now.

And it’s not like Barnes doesn’t take shots from other areas. Where I agree with you though is that Scottie shouldn’t be initiating primarily from the perimeter.

I would like to see him as even a league average C&S player before he is jacking up low % 3's. Getting in game reps isn't inherently the issue, but rather that he is so incredibly bad at them, that these reps amount to nothing. A guy shooting 17% isn't going to get noticeably better shooting like 2 shots a game for a season, so I feel like those shots could be put to better use in other places.

Mid range pull ups would be great, that way he gets practice at taking pull ups, and then he can extend the range as he gets better. Or even more ATB C&S 3's on the left and right. Quite literally anything is better than him dribbling past half court and chucking a 30ft pull up lol.

He's in his 4th year, I think he should be refining things he's clearly got the skill for, as well as slowly adding to his game. Taking one of the hardest shots in basketball is a leap too far IMO.

[TheAlchemist23]

Scottie's biggest problem isn't shooting 3s, it's his lack of willingness to take contact on drives and seemingly low pain tolerance

Based on what exactly? His increasing FTr YoY, or the fact that he only really misses significant time when he literally breaks bones in his body?

What games have you been watching, he never shies away from contact. He just doesn't have the first step to blow past people, no one in their right mind would say that RJ shies away from contact on drives, and so far this year (small sample size duh) Scottie has as high a FTr RJ ever has. .349 vs .349 in RJs rookie year. Or .349 vs .326 this year.

This year so far, is not the year to be complaining about that tbh.

Scottie's biggest problem isn't shooting 3s, it's his lack of willingness to take contact on drives and seemingly low pain tolerance

That's such a load of garbage, and you know it.

Sent from my SM-S908W using RealGM mobile app

0 free throw attempts in the last 2 games

[bonjovi0308]

Scottie's biggest problem isn't shooting 3s, it's his lack of willingness to take contact on drives and seemingly low pain tolerance

Based on what exactly? His increasing FTr YoY, or the fact that he only really misses significant time when he literally breaks bones in his body?

What games have you been watching, he never shies away from contact. He just doesn't have the first step to blow past people, no one in their right mind would say that RJ shies away from contact on drives, and so far this year (small sample size duh) Scottie has as high a FTr RJ ever has. .349 vs .349 in RJs rookie year. Or .349 vs .326 this year.

This year so far, is not the year to be complaining about that tbh.

Scottie's biggest problem isn't shooting 3s, it's his lack of willingness to take contact on drives and seemingly low pain tolerance

That's such a load of garbage, and you know it.

Sent from my SM-S908W using RealGM mobile app

0 free throw attempts in the last 2 games

Not saying Barnes is a perfect player but really why everyone likes to scrutinize the best player of the team/this game (who could have 20+ assists if his teammates could finish)? Does that make them feel good, thinking they are a better basketball player than Barnes is?

[Indeed]

Based on what exactly? His increasing FTr YoY, or the fact that he only really misses significant time when he literally breaks bones in his body?

What games have you been watching, he never shies away from contact. He just doesn't have the first step to blow past people, no one in their right mind would say that RJ shies away from contact on drives, and so far this year (small sample size duh) Scottie has as high a FTr RJ ever has. .349 vs .349 in RJs rookie year. Or .349 vs .326 this year.

This year so far, is not the year to be complaining about that tbh.

That's such a load of garbage, and you know it.

Sent from my SM-S908W using RealGM mobile app

0 free throw attempts in the last 2 games

Not saying Barnes is a perfect player but really why everyone likes to scrutinize the best player of the team/this game (who could have 20+ assists if his teammates could finish)? Does that make them feel good, thinking they are a better basketball player than Barnes is?

Define "best player".

[Scase]

Scottie's biggest problem isn't shooting 3s, it's his lack of willingness to take contact on drives and seemingly low pain tolerance

Based on what exactly? His increasing FTr YoY, or the fact that he only really misses significant time when he literally breaks bones in his body?

What games have you been watching, he never shies away from contact. He just doesn't have the first step to blow past people, no one in their right mind would say that RJ shies away from contact on drives, and so far this year (small sample size duh) Scottie has as high a FTr RJ ever has. .349 vs .349 in RJs rookie year. Or .349 vs .326 this year.

This year so far, is not the year to be complaining about that tbh.

Scottie's biggest problem isn't shooting 3s, it's his lack of willingness to take contact on drives and seemingly low pain tolerance

That's such a load of garbage, and you know it.

Sent from my SM-S908W using RealGM mobile app

0 free throw attempts in the last 2 games

1 game they played against one of the best defensive teams in the league, and the other he got 14 assists, which is vastly superior to getting to the line 6-8 times.

Also, it's 2 games lol. I'm not saying Scottie is going to be GOAT level at FTr, but he has been increasing it every single year year since he joined the league, so complaining about it seems like a stupid thing to harp on.

Scottie's biggest problem isn't shooting 3s, it's his lack of willingness to take contact on drives and seemingly low pain tolerance

You know what really impacts FTr? Him shooting too many 3's, so yeah, it still is a problem from that perspective.

[rage2021]

alot of talking heads saying the game is dying, viewership is down, i come here expecting the coach to say shoot less threes..nope..double down..lol 3 pt contest.

no wonder viewership is dropping and will continue to do so. the game is super boring.