Official RJ Barrett Thread Part 2

[tdotrep2]

RJ's been fantastic, couldn't have asked for more. What also not talked about enough is how great of a locker room guy he is.

[aminiaturebuddha]

Watch on YouTube

Good breakdown by Sam Vecenie of RJ's game, and in particular highlighting some of the improvements he's seen in his game since he arrived in Toronto.

Vecenie is overall very positive about RJ, and the Raps in general.

[canada_dry]

Oh look. He's playing better and more efficiently with better talent around him.

...who could have predicted that?

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Airmiess]

If Barnes and RJ were above average free throw shooters we'd be having different conversations surrounding the 2, especially RJ.

I think these 2 have Tatum and Jaylen potential. Only difference is the timeline on how fast they become elite won't be as fast as the Jays. Btw neither of them were considered as guys who could lead a title winner until they actually did it.

[Vampirate]

It boggles my mind that someone who's actually a good set shooter, also struggles so much at the FT line which is much closer to the basket.

[mtcan]

If the Raptors are in the play-in mix by mid-January...there is a strong possibility that Scottie is an all-star and a non zero chance that RJ joins him.

24 pts, 6 rebounds and 6 assists...not many guys putting that kind of stat line right now.

[Brinbe]

RJ and Scottie both definitely benefit from playing together and they do complement each other well. RJ the more natural scorer but not the main focus compared to Scottie and that's when he can certainly hurt defenses the most when teams aren't throwing bodies at him. And likewise Scottie will gladly find him/set him up and can rest knowing he doesn't have to totally carry the scoring load.

The key for RJ in the future, as others have said, is on the defensive end and if the team can nudge him upward on that end. Maybe it never happens but he's still young enough where you may see some possible improvement as he reaches his physical prime. Otherwise it's just about rounding out his game, improving his shot, cutting down on turnovers.

I don't know if he'll ever be that guy who can lead bench units but I think having IQ back will be a big help as they have good chemistry too and they can potentially carry units together while Scottie rests.

Also good to see him recapture that consistency now that Scottie has returned. If he's gonna continually be a guy who scores in the mid 20s each night with a good helping of boards/dimes, there's no reason why he won't get all star consideration, especially if they do rise up in the standings in this awful conference.

And if they ever do start competing higher up the standings in future years it's easy to foresee Scottie and RJ both making it.

[Scase]

People need to come to grips that IQ, Barnes and RJ will all he starters...as will Yak.

That leaves 1 spot and that's where Ochai fits in as he can use his energy on defense at the POA and now is looking like a reliable 3pt option and cutter on offense as the 5th option.

That is the best balanced type lineup.

Then being able to bring in Gradey when one of the big 3 sit, the offense doesn't die.

Gradey given his age and contract will be coming off the bench for a few years imo. Now that could change vs some teams where he starts and Ochai comes off the bench. Dick will still get lots of minutes.

I don't mind GD being the 6th man this year, but he can't be hung out to dry being surrounded by 4 bench players like we've seen happen all too often with this team. He needs to have the majority of his minutes be with 3-4 starters, he has a higher ceiling than RJ IMO and is the longer term play at the 2/3, so if the argument is that RJ needs to play with better players, so does GD and tossing him with our bench is a recipe for disaster.

I think as long as both RJ and GD are making valid arguments for who should be taking that starter spot long term, we're in a good place.

To be fair.....the whole team has to stop with the awful turnovers. Scottie as well. It's on Darko & the coaching staff to figure out ways to clean this up. I do think having IQ & Dick back will help.

I actually think these are one of the few things that don't warrant any real concern. It's a young team learning to play together, turnovers will happen until guys know where the others are most likely to be. RJ was playing outside of his role while Scottie was back so those turnovers aren't too surprising, and I think Scottie is always gonna have a few "huh" turnovers as he goes for high risk high reward plays.

That said, our backup guards need to be solid.

Would like to see him starting to take on PG defending duties. He's laterally quick and I feel as if his on ball defence less detrimental than his offball defence. Would also open up room on the perimeter for a strong wing defender to let Scottie do what he does best on that end.

RJ/Gradey/Wing Defender/Scottie 1-4 kinda moves me. Still can get IQ his 30 minutes a night off the bench either way. Ochai good for that Wing Defender slot right now. But maybe in this set up you'd like someone a bit taller.

One of RJs biggest issues causing him to be a poor defender is that he can't turn his hips particularly well, PGs would eat him alive.

I personally find his biggest issue is his attentiveness. Seems lost when the ball is away from him. League trending towards bigger PGs as well. He's probably gonna get cooked anywhere sadly.

That's a fair point, he does get caught ball watching a bunch, overall I just don't think he has the physical tools or the aptitude to be a + defender. Someone like OG you can just see he understands how the offences run so he knows where to be and how to play it, that's not something easily taught, and you definitely can't fix a physical limitation, so I think if he ever gets to a neutral defender, that's beating the odds and a great place to be for him.

[YogurtProducer]

People need to come to grips that IQ, Barnes and RJ will all he starters...as will Yak.

That leaves 1 spot and that's where Ochai fits in as he can use his energy on defense at the POA and now is looking like a reliable 3pt option and cutter on offense as the 5th option.

That is the best balanced type lineup.

Then being able to bring in Gradey when one of the big 3 sit, the offense doesn't die.

Gradey given his age and contract will be coming off the bench for a few years imo. Now that could change vs some teams where he starts and Ochai comes off the bench. Dick will still get lots of minutes.

I don't mind GD being the 6th man this year, but he can't be hung out to dry being surrounded by 4 bench players like we've seen happen all too often with this team. He needs to have the majority of his minutes be with 3-4 starters, he has a higher ceiling than RJ IMO and is the longer term play at the 2/3, so if the argument is that RJ needs to play with better players, so does GD and tossing him with our bench is a recipe for disaster.

I think as long as both RJ and GD are making valid arguments for who should be taking that starter spot long term, we're in a good place.

Hopefully he wont be hung out to dry if we have IQ / Olynyk / Brown back.

Dick/Olynyk/Brown is the foundation of a very good bench unit. Add a starter in with the bench (IQ or Barnes) as well as like Mogbo or someone and thats a hell of a unit to run against benches.


Also - to say GD has a higher ceiling than RJ is wild. DIck putting up 24/6/6 would be about the best case scenario for him. He is never gonna be a better defender than RJ is, so IDK what expectations you got for him but sheesh

[Shwaguy]

People need to come to grips that IQ, Barnes and RJ will all he starters...as will Yak.

That leaves 1 spot and that's where Ochai fits in as he can use his energy on defense at the POA and now is looking like a reliable 3pt option and cutter on offense as the 5th option.

That is the best balanced type lineup.

Then being able to bring in Gradey when one of the big 3 sit, the offense doesn't die.

Gradey given his age and contract will be coming off the bench for a few years imo. Now that could change vs some teams where he starts and Ochai comes off the bench. Dick will still get lots of minutes.

I don't mind GD being the 6th man this year, but he can't be hung out to dry being surrounded by 4 bench players like we've seen happen all too often with this team. He needs to have the majority of his minutes be with 3-4 starters, he has a higher ceiling than RJ IMO and is the longer term play at the 2/3, so if the argument is that RJ needs to play with better players, so does GD and tossing him with our bench is a recipe for disaster.

I think as long as both RJ and GD are making valid arguments for who should be taking that starter spot long term, we're in a good place.

Hopefully he wont be hung out to dry if we have IQ / Olynyk / Brown back.

Dick/Olynyk/Brown is the foundation of a very good bench unit. Add a starter in with the bench (IQ or Barnes) as well as like Mogbo or someone and thats a hell of a unit to run against benches.


Also - to say GD has a higher ceiling than RJ is wild. DIck putting up 24/6/6 would be about the best case scenario for him. He is never gonna be a better defender than RJ is, so IDK what expectations you got for him but sheesh

Huh?

Gradey's ceiling defensively is significantly better than RJs. He's bigger, more agile, and shows better bball IQ on that side of the ball. He only lacks experience and physical strength. RJ does not show any instincts on that end and isn't as laterally quick as Gradey is.

I also strongly agree that Gradey's Ceiling is higher. Gradey's ceiling requires less touches to score the same amount points. Absolutely has the potential to be a 25ppg on a healthier shot diet and less usage than what RJ currently requires to get there. There's also the matter of what a player like Gradey does for the team's overall offence, impact wise. Gravity is legitimately important and Gradey should have more of that in the long run the RJ.

We'll see if he gets there but it's worth it to foster his potential. I don't see how he DOESN'T have a higher ceiling than RJ. Efficient Shooters > Ball Dominant Volume Scorers. The exception is when they are do it all guys who are the lynchpin of the offence, like Scottie is. RJ is not that.

[PushDaRock]

I don't mind GD being the 6th man this year, but he can't be hung out to dry being surrounded by 4 bench players like we've seen happen all too often with this team. He needs to have the majority of his minutes be with 3-4 starters, he has a higher ceiling than RJ IMO and is the longer term play at the 2/3, so if the argument is that RJ needs to play with better players, so does GD and tossing him with our bench is a recipe for disaster.

I think as long as both RJ and GD are making valid arguments for who should be taking that starter spot long term, we're in a good place.

Hopefully he wont be hung out to dry if we have IQ / Olynyk / Brown back.

Dick/Olynyk/Brown is the foundation of a very good bench unit. Add a starter in with the bench (IQ or Barnes) as well as like Mogbo or someone and thats a hell of a unit to run against benches.


Also - to say GD has a higher ceiling than RJ is wild. DIck putting up 24/6/6 would be about the best case scenario for him. He is never gonna be a better defender than RJ is, so IDK what expectations you got for him but sheesh

Huh?

Gradey's ceiling defensively is significantly better than RJs. He's bigger, more agile, and shows better bball IQ on that side of the ball. He only lacks experience and physical strength. RJ does not show any instincts on that end and isn't as laterally quick as Gradey is.

I also strongly agree that Gradey's Ceiling is higher. Gradey's ceiling requires less touches to score the same amount points. Absolutely has the potential to be a 25ppg on a healthier shot diet and less usage than what RJ currently requires to get there. There's also the matter of what a player like Gradey does for the team's overall offence, impact wise. Gravity is legitimately important and Gradey should have more of that in the long run the RJ.

We'll see if he gets there but it's worth it to foster his potential. I don't see how he DOESN'T have a higher ceiling than RJ. Efficient Shooters > Ball Dominant Volume Scorers. The exception is when they are do it all guys who are the lynchpin of the offence, like Scottie is. RJ is not that.

I think that's a pretty big stretch. I don't think RJ is as bad defensively as people think either. He's physical out there and he gives effort, that's enough for him to be passable out there and not a big negative. Good D is mostly about communication and 5 guys operating as 1 since hardly anyone can stay in front of guys in the NBA anyways. Gradey is never going to be a shut down defender either, so talking about his defensive upside I feel like is pretty pointless since it's never going to be some massive strength of his.

I am high on Gradey too but he hasn't shown the ability to be efficient himself so far. His break out has largely depended on a lot of tough shot making particularly from the mid range. I don't know that I would call that a healthy shot diet necessarily, is that really more sustainable than RJ's rim pressure which he has shown to be able to consistently do throughout his career? We are also talking about 25 ppg for a guy that has absolutely no ability to beat anyone 1 on 1 off the dribble, I think you are really projecting him getting way better at stuff he sucks at to be able to get there because it's damn near impossible to score 25 ppg as just an off ball scorer.

Then, also factor in the playmaking and rebounding advantage RJ has over him as well. I get people like Gradey being younger and being the better shooter, but there's a long way to go before he is as good as RJ who is still getting better himself.

[DreamTeam09]

I don't mind GD being the 6th man this year, but he can't be hung out to dry being surrounded by 4 bench players like we've seen happen all too often with this team. He needs to have the majority of his minutes be with 3-4 starters, he has a higher ceiling than RJ IMO and is the longer term play at the 2/3, so if the argument is that RJ needs to play with better players, so does GD and tossing him with our bench is a recipe for disaster.

I think as long as both RJ and GD are making valid arguments for who should be taking that starter spot long term, we're in a good place.

Hopefully he wont be hung out to dry if we have IQ / Olynyk / Brown back.

Dick/Olynyk/Brown is the foundation of a very good bench unit. Add a starter in with the bench (IQ or Barnes) as well as like Mogbo or someone and thats a hell of a unit to run against benches.


Also - to say GD has a higher ceiling than RJ is wild. DIck putting up 24/6/6 would be about the best case scenario for him. He is never gonna be a better defender than RJ is, so IDK what expectations you got for him but sheesh

Huh?

Gradey's ceiling defensively is significantly better than RJs. He's bigger, more agile, and shows better bball IQ on that side of the ball. He only lacks experience and physical strength. RJ does not show any instincts on that end and isn't as laterally quick as Gradey is.

I also strongly agree that Gradey's Ceiling is higher. Gradey's ceiling requires less touches to score the same amount points. Absolutely has the potential to be a 25ppg on a healthier shot diet and less usage than what RJ currently requires to get there. There's also the matter of what a player like Gradey does for the team's overall offence, impact wise. Gravity is legitimately important and Gradey should have more of that in the long run the RJ.

We'll see if he gets there but it's worth it to foster his potential. I don't see how he DOESN'T have a higher ceiling than RJ. Efficient Shooters > Ball Dominant Volume Scorers. The exception is when they are do it all guys who are the lynchpin of the offence, like Scottie is. RJ is not that.

Just gonna disagree with you on this one.
GD is not bigger than RJ, not sure how you can say that, even if he is an inch taller, GD is not gonna be bigger or stronger than RJ, ever.
From what I saw this year I guess you can envision 25ppg for GD one day, but it'd have to be on like some Klay like %s & it won't be here with Scottie IQ & RJ is

[YogurtProducer]

Hopefully he wont be hung out to dry if we have IQ / Olynyk / Brown back.

Dick/Olynyk/Brown is the foundation of a very good bench unit. Add a starter in with the bench (IQ or Barnes) as well as like Mogbo or someone and thats a hell of a unit to run against benches.


Also - to say GD has a higher ceiling than RJ is wild. DIck putting up 24/6/6 would be about the best case scenario for him. He is never gonna be a better defender than RJ is, so IDK what expectations you got for him but sheesh

Huh?

Gradey's ceiling defensively is significantly better than RJs. He's bigger, more agile, and shows better bball IQ on that side of the ball. He only lacks experience and physical strength. RJ does not show any instincts on that end and isn't as laterally quick as Gradey is.

I also strongly agree that Gradey's Ceiling is higher. Gradey's ceiling requires less touches to score the same amount points. Absolutely has the potential to be a 25ppg on a healthier shot diet and less usage than what RJ currently requires to get there. There's also the matter of what a player like Gradey does for the team's overall offence, impact wise. Gravity is legitimately important and Gradey should have more of that in the long run the RJ.

We'll see if he gets there but it's worth it to foster his potential. I don't see how he DOESN'T have a higher ceiling than RJ. Efficient Shooters > Ball Dominant Volume Scorers. The exception is when they are do it all guys who are the lynchpin of the offence, like Scottie is. RJ is not that.

Just gonna disagree with you on this one.
GD is not bigger than RJ, not sure how you can say that, even if he is an inch taller, GD is not gonna be bigger or stronger than RJ, ever.
From what I saw this year I guess you can envision 25ppg for GD one day, but it'd have to be on like some Klay like %s & it won't be here with Scottie IQ & RJ is

Could Dick eventually be a 25ppg guy? Sure. Is is anywhere near likely. Hell no.

Dick has absolutely zero creation skills right now, and has been pretty meh from 3 so far in his career for a guy that was supposed to be a sniper.

At his prime he could be a very good player, like a Klay offensively with some more in between stuff, but he will never be a Klay level defender which immensely kills his value as a super 3+D guy, and I just don't see Dick ever being good enough offensively to offset his defense. A modern day Korver maybe who shoots a hell of a lot more 3's.

RJ has upside to be a legit #1 guy on offense if we are trying to talk about absolute ceilings. This is as unlikely as anything you said about Dicks upside.

[Scase]

I don't mind GD being the 6th man this year, but he can't be hung out to dry being surrounded by 4 bench players like we've seen happen all too often with this team. He needs to have the majority of his minutes be with 3-4 starters, he has a higher ceiling than RJ IMO and is the longer term play at the 2/3, so if the argument is that RJ needs to play with better players, so does GD and tossing him with our bench is a recipe for disaster.

I think as long as both RJ and GD are making valid arguments for who should be taking that starter spot long term, we're in a good place.

Hopefully he wont be hung out to dry if we have IQ / Olynyk / Brown back.

Dick/Olynyk/Brown is the foundation of a very good bench unit. Add a starter in with the bench (IQ or Barnes) as well as like Mogbo or someone and thats a hell of a unit to run against benches.


Also - to say GD has a higher ceiling than RJ is wild. DIck putting up 24/6/6 would be about the best case scenario for him. He is never gonna be a better defender than RJ is, so IDK what expectations you got for him but sheesh

Huh?

Gradey's ceiling defensively is significantly better than RJs. He's bigger, more agile, and shows better bball IQ on that side of the ball. He only lacks experience and physical strength. RJ does not show any instincts on that end and isn't as laterally quick as Gradey is.

I also strongly agree that Gradey's Ceiling is higher. Gradey's ceiling requires less touches to score the same amount points. Absolutely has the potential to be a 25ppg on a healthier shot diet and less usage than what RJ currently requires to get there. There's also the matter of what a player like Gradey does for the team's overall offence, impact wise. Gravity is legitimately important and Gradey should have more of that in the long run the RJ.

We'll see if he gets there but it's worth it to foster his potential. I don't see how he DOESN'T have a higher ceiling than RJ. Efficient Shooters > Ball Dominant Volume Scorers. The exception is when they are do it all guys who are the lynchpin of the offence, like Scottie is. RJ is not that.

This is the key point to me, it's not just counting stats, it's how they get the stats. GD is not ball dominant, and his constant movement opens up the offence for other players as well, RJs game is largely "predictable" in comparison. It will be much easier to game plan for, compared to a movement shooter who is always running around. We've seen the better teams/defenders just force RJ left into the baseline numerous times, the Lakers game was a great example.

As for defensive acumen, I think GD can be a better defender, he was a plus defender in college, whereas RJ has been bad at every level. Worst case for GD is a neutral defender, that's best case for RJ.

Gradey is 21 and still largely built like a high schooler, as he fills out and gets more reps, he will most likely become a better defender. He's not going to be a guy that bumps and grinds in defence, he will be a better positional defender, he's overall a smarter player.

[Tripod]

Let's worry about having too many 20+ point scorers when it happens.

In the end, Dick can score like some of the others can't. His midrange looks smooth and his 3 will get better. But RJ can score taking it to the basket like others can't. Same with Barnes...he can bully guys unlike others but also is just as happy with a nice assist as a bucket. IQ...can shoot from deep unlike the others. If his floater normalizes...again another way to score others don't have.

Let's see how things play out over the next 1.5 years and keep growing more talent around them while developing themselves.

Things will sort themselves out over time.

[DreamTeam09]

We were handed an overpaid overrated player & we are now seeing an effective complementary player.

[Dalek]

I have my gripes about RJ's defense and some of his decision making, but a factor I didn't consider is his new found maturity. It was not that he was immature in NY, but in coming to Toronto he wants to be leader and shows it.

It might be playing at home and feeling that responsibility, but I do see him thriving with bigger expectations. Even when he makes mistakes he owns up to it. It could that coming home saved his career or at least helped him to take his career on a different trajectory from being an average player, to one with real all NBA potential in time.

[Vampirate]

People need to come to grips that IQ, Barnes and RJ will all he starters...as will Yak.

That leaves 1 spot and that's where Ochai fits in as he can use his energy on defense at the POA and now is looking like a reliable 3pt option and cutter on offense as the 5th option.

That is the best balanced type lineup.

Then being able to bring in Gradey when one of the big 3 sit, the offense doesn't die.

Gradey given his age and contract will be coming off the bench for a few years imo. Now that could change vs some teams where he starts and Ochai comes off the bench. Dick will still get lots of minutes.

I don't mind GD being the 6th man this year, but he can't be hung out to dry being surrounded by 4 bench players like we've seen happen all too often with this team. He needs to have the majority of his minutes be with 3-4 starters, he has a higher ceiling than RJ IMO and is the longer term play at the 2/3, so if the argument is that RJ needs to play with better players, so does GD and tossing him with our bench is a recipe for disaster.

I think as long as both RJ and GD are making valid arguments for who should be taking that starter spot long term, we're in a good place.

Hopefully he wont be hung out to dry if we have IQ / Olynyk / Brown back.

Dick/Olynyk/Brown is the foundation of a very good bench unit. Add a starter in with the bench (IQ or Barnes) as well as like Mogbo or someone and thats a hell of a unit to run against benches.


Also - to say GD has a higher ceiling than RJ is wild. DIck putting up 24/6/6 would be about the best case scenario for him. He is never gonna be a better defender than RJ is, so IDK what expectations you got for him but sheesh

Because Gradey is much harder to 'shut down' than RJ is.

Remember when Barnes was off Gradey was stepping up while we were getting NY RJ.

[raincityraptors]

Watch on YouTube

Good breakdown by Sam Vecenie of RJ's game, and in particular highlighting some of the improvements he's seen in his game since he arrived in Toronto.

Vecenie is overall very positive about RJ, and the Raps in general.

If you are a fan of the Toronto Raptors, please watch this video.

There is good analysis in there of his hits and misses that objectively show he's improving.

He called RJ an "underrated asset league wide right now" and "definitely a dude worth continuing to track and continuing to watch league wide."

He is underrated across the league, let's not underrate one of our own at home.

It's so much fun to have a power driver on your team. His one handed gather is a thing of beauty.

I also think his driving is contagious.

[PushDaRock]

I don't mind GD being the 6th man this year, but he can't be hung out to dry being surrounded by 4 bench players like we've seen happen all too often with this team. He needs to have the majority of his minutes be with 3-4 starters, he has a higher ceiling than RJ IMO and is the longer term play at the 2/3, so if the argument is that RJ needs to play with better players, so does GD and tossing him with our bench is a recipe for disaster.

I think as long as both RJ and GD are making valid arguments for who should be taking that starter spot long term, we're in a good place.

Hopefully he wont be hung out to dry if we have IQ / Olynyk / Brown back.

Dick/Olynyk/Brown is the foundation of a very good bench unit. Add a starter in with the bench (IQ or Barnes) as well as like Mogbo or someone and thats a hell of a unit to run against benches.


Also - to say GD has a higher ceiling than RJ is wild. DIck putting up 24/6/6 would be about the best case scenario for him. He is never gonna be a better defender than RJ is, so IDK what expectations you got for him but sheesh

Because Gradey is much harder to 'shut down' than RJ is.

Remember when Barnes was off Gradey was stepping up while we were getting NY RJ.

I don't know how true that is. He was struggling pretty badly to get his shots off after he got on every team's scouting report. Getting to the FT line is what stopped his efficiency from totally tanking.