Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

[Norseman79]

Good question but not the most urgent question. How do we pay BI 50+ million next year? If he would settle for a reasonable deal the Pels would keep him. We cannot address to overpay BI even with bird rights because of the 2nd apron. We need to be moving into value added deals not big name deals. For example, Walker Kessler is in his 3rd season, that is one more cheap year. By making him a bench guy, who also have inconsistent play and injury issues over the past few seasons, we should be able to keep him cheap. Then you throw in a body like Collins to chew the Randle backup PF minutes while promoting Naz to starting PF. This is the type of deal we need.

Jordan Poole is too inconsistent to be worth anything. His salary is hard to swallow because we won’t be able to move him again, he is putting up better numbers on a bad team, that is not the same as doing it on a good team. Plus long term we are committed to Dilly, and there is no way we are moving on from Naz. Your suggestion is not factoring in the second apron and the long term plans of the Wolves.

Washington has been bad the whole time. What numbers did he put up on a good team?

As for BI, why would we want to pay him? We have Jaden and Naz...

I added more to the original post on Poole, take a peak and then we can talk. For BI we are not trading for him because we don’t want to pay him. That is my point. No one wants him because he wants too much next year.

"
"Jordan Poole is too inconsistent to be worth anything. His salary is hard to swallow because we won’t be able to move him again, he is putting up better numbers on a bad team, that is not the same as doing it on a good team. Plus long term we are committed to Dilly, and there is no way we are moving on from Naz. Your suggestion is not factoring in the second apron and the long term plans of the Wolves"

If I'm not mistaken, poole has 3 years remaining on this contract, two after this one. Won't his contract expire before we have to worry about signing Dillingham, if Dillingham even amounts to anything?

As for Naz, based off his play this year, what exactly do you think he is going to get? How much needs to be freed up? You're only chance at signing him is keeping Randle and letting him play out his contract. Then you better be damn sure Naz is worth what he is wanting as a starting pf, not a backup 5.

As for the Wolves plans? Who knows. Do I think they are going to trade for anyone exciting? No. Do I think Dillingham is an answer? No. I was super excited when they picked him, but seeing him on the court,his size and lack of athleticism will prevent much. I thought he was much more explosive vertically than he is. Maybe a Darius Garland....which is ok...


Ultimately I think we are stuck with what we have, will get to a 6 or 7 spot and lose first round.

[cmoss84]

Found a 3-way that works:

MN in: Cade, Duren, Reed
MN out: Randle, DD, RD, Miller
(gets us into 1st apron as well)
Cade-ANT-Jaden-NAZ-Rudy starting 5

Det in: Lavine, DD, RD, Miller, SAC '25 SRP, Chi '28 FRP
Det out: Cade, Duran, Ivey, Hardaway Jr., Reed
DD-Lavine-Fontecchio-Harris-Stewart starting 5

Chi in: Randle, Ivey, Hardaway Jr.
Chi out: Lavine, '25 SRP (via SAC), '28 FRP
White/Ball/Ivey/Giddey/Randle/Williams/Vucevic

So in the end we manage to trade KAT, Miller, our 2030 pick swap top 1 protected, and our unprotected 2031 pick for Cade, Duren, and Paul Reed. Also did you factor in the dead money from KBD when you said it gets us to first apron? This is the kind of trade that would not only get TC fired but probably make it hard for him to find another job. Talk about your massive overpay.

This allows us to extend NAW and Naz, and yes, it puts us in 1st apron. Find something better and share my friend!
Randle isn't working, DD is unhappy blah blah blah, RD and Miller are good prospects but uncertainties...this gives us a fresh start while being competitive. Basically a 9-10 man rotation with quality depth everywhere.

PG: Cade, Mike, NAW, Nix
SG: ANT, NAW, TSJ
SF: Jaden, NAW, TSJ, Minott
PF: NAZ, Duran, Reed, Garza
C: Rudy, Duran, Reed, Garza

[Norseman79]

Found a 3-way that works:

MN in: Cade, Duren, Reed
MN out: Randle, DD, RD, Miller
(gets us into 1st apron as well)
Cade-ANT-Jaden-NAZ-Rudy starting 5

Det in: Lavine, DD, RD, Miller, SAC '25 SRP, Chi '28 FRP
Det out: Cade, Duran, Ivey, Hardaway Jr., Reed
DD-Lavine-Fontecchio-Harris-Stewart starting 5

Chi in: Randle, Ivey, Hardaway Jr.
Chi out: Lavine, '25 SRP (via SAC), '28 FRP
White/Ball/Ivey/Giddey/Randle/Williams/Vucevic

So in the end we manage to trade KAT, Miller, our 2030 pick swap top 1 protected, and our unprotected 2031 pick for Cade, Duren, and Paul Reed. Also did you factor in the dead money from KBD when you said it gets us to first apron? This is the kind of trade that would not only get TC fired but probably make it hard for him to find another job. Talk about your massive overpay.

This allows us to extend NAW and Naz, and yes, it puts us in 1st apron. Find something better and share my friend!
Randle isn't working, DD is unhappy blah blah blah, RD and Miller are good prospects but uncertainties...this gives us a fresh start while being competitive. Basically a 9-10 man rotation with quality depth everywhere.

PG: Cade, Mike, NAW, Nix
SG: ANT, NAW, TSJ
SF: Jaden, NAW, TSJ, Minott
PF: NAZ, Duran, Reed, Garza
C: Rudy, Duran, Reed, Garza

Why would Detroit do this? Cade is worth more than all that by himself, let alone with Duren added.

[winforlose]

Washington has been bad the whole time. What numbers did he put up on a good team?

As for BI, why would we want to pay him? We have Jaden and Naz...

I added more to the original post on Poole, take a peak and then we can talk. For BI we are not trading for him because we don’t want to pay him. That is my point. No one wants him because he wants too much next year.

"
"Jordan Poole is too inconsistent to be worth anything. His salary is hard to swallow because we won’t be able to move him again, he is putting up better numbers on a bad team, that is not the same as doing it on a good team. Plus long term we are committed to Dilly, and there is no way we are moving on from Naz. Your suggestion is not factoring in the second apron and the long term plans of the Wolves"

If I'm not mistaken, poole has 3 years remaining on this contract, two after this one. Won't his contract expire before we have to worry about signing Dillingham, if Dillingham even amounts to anything?

As for Naz, based off his play this year, what exactly do you think he is going to get? How much needs to be freed up? You're only chance at signing him is keeping Randle and letting him play out his contract. Then you better be damn sure Naz is worth what he is wanting as a starting pf, not a backup 5.

As for the Wolves plans? Who knows. Do I think they are going to trade for anyone exciting? No. Do I think Dillingham is an answer? No. I was super excited when they picked him, but seeing him on the court,his size and lack of athleticism will prevent much. I thought he was much more explosive vertically than he is. Maybe a Darius Garland....which is ok...


Ultimately I think we are stuck with what we have, will get to a 6 or 7 spot and lose first round.

Poole is a terrible defender, turns the ball over a lot, and is overpaid. None of that raises red flags for you on this team in particular? Do we even trust him to maintain his 3 point shooting post trade? If that is the best we can do for Randle keep Randle and send him home. Just the absence of Randle is better than Poole. Losing in the first round depends on Ant and whether can learn to play at his playoff level outside the playoffs, and thus help his team support him during the playoffs.

[cmoss84]

"So in the end we manage to trade KAT, Miller, our 2030 pick swap top 1 protected, and our unprotected 2031 pick for Cade, Duren, and Paul Reed. Also did you factor in the dead money from KBD when you said it gets us to first apron? This is the kind of trade that would not only get TC fired but probably make it hard for him to find another job. Talk about your massive overpay."

To add on, here is the way I see it:

1: Cade + Naz >>> KAT/FRP
2: NAW + Duran > Miller, FRP
3: Duran (and Reed) audition for long term contracts also
4: We are now 1st apron
5: We keep Jaden
6: Maybe I am higher on Caden the most. But I think he will be a WINNER. Just my two cents.

[Biff Cooper]

I am really confused why Randle is playing 33.8 mpg.

[winforlose]

Found a 3-way that works:

MN in: Cade, Duren, Reed
MN out: Randle, DD, RD, Miller
(gets us into 1st apron as well)
Cade-ANT-Jaden-NAZ-Rudy starting 5

Det in: Lavine, DD, RD, Miller, SAC '25 SRP, Chi '28 FRP
Det out: Cade, Duran, Ivey, Hardaway Jr., Reed
DD-Lavine-Fontecchio-Harris-Stewart starting 5

Chi in: Randle, Ivey, Hardaway Jr.
Chi out: Lavine, '25 SRP (via SAC), '28 FRP
White/Ball/Ivey/Giddey/Randle/Williams/Vucevic

So in the end we manage to trade KAT, Miller, our 2030 pick swap top 1 protected, and our unprotected 2031 pick for Cade, Duren, and Paul Reed. Also did you factor in the dead money from KBD when you said it gets us to first apron? This is the kind of trade that would not only get TC fired but probably make it hard for him to find another job. Talk about your massive overpay.

This allows us to extend NAW and Naz, and yes, it puts us in 1st apron. Find something better and share my friend!
Randle isn't working, DD is unhappy blah blah blah, RD and Miller are good prospects but uncertainties...this gives us a fresh start while being competitive. Basically a 9-10 man rotation with quality depth everywhere.

PG: Cade, Mike, NAW, Nix
SG: ANT, NAW, TSJ
SF: Jaden, NAW, TSJ, Minott
PF: NAZ, Duran, Reed, Garza
C: Rudy, Duran, Reed, Garza

Duran cannot play with Reed or Gobert. One injury to Naz and the season is basically over. Duran is also not that good. Cade is also not moving for that package. I would need to do a deep dive but basically you want to turn Randle into a backup PF and backup C. One of whom needs to be able to space the floor.

[cmoss84]

So in the end we manage to trade KAT, Miller, our 2030 pick swap top 1 protected, and our unprotected 2031 pick for Cade, Duren, and Paul Reed. Also did you factor in the dead money from KBD when you said it gets us to first apron? This is the kind of trade that would not only get TC fired but probably make it hard for him to find another job. Talk about your massive overpay.

This allows us to extend NAW and Naz, and yes, it puts us in 1st apron. Find something better and share my friend!
Randle isn't working, DD is unhappy blah blah blah, RD and Miller are good prospects but uncertainties...this gives us a fresh start while being competitive. Basically a 9-10 man rotation with quality depth everywhere.

PG: Cade, Mike, NAW, Nix
SG: ANT, NAW, TSJ
SF: Jaden, NAW, TSJ, Minott
PF: NAZ, Duran, Reed, Garza
C: Rudy, Duran, Reed, Garza

Why would Detroit do this? Cade is worth more than all that by himself, let alone with Duren added.

Maybe they wouldn't...I thought it was a pretty good haul?

PG: DD, RD, Sasser
SG: Lavine, Beasley
SF: Fontecchio, Thompson, Holland
PF: Harris, Fontecchio, Miller
C: Stewart, Miller
+ 2 picks (maybe Chi could add this year's FRP?)

[BlacJacMac]

Found a 3-way that works:

MN in: Cade, Duren, Reed
MN out: Randle, DD, RD, Miller
(gets us into 1st apron as well)
Cade-ANT-Jaden-NAZ-Rudy starting 5

Det in: Lavine, DD, RD, Miller, SAC '25 SRP, Chi '28 FRP
Det out: Cade, Duran, Ivey, Hardaway Jr., Reed
DD-Lavine-Fontecchio-Harris-Stewart starting 5

Chi in: Randle, Ivey, Hardaway Jr.
Chi out: Lavine, '25 SRP (via SAC), '28 FRP
White/Ball/Ivey/Giddey/Randle/Williams/Vucevic

So in the end we manage to trade KAT, Miller, our 2030 pick swap top 1 protected, and our unprotected 2031 pick for Cade, Duren, and Paul Reed. Also did you factor in the dead money from KBD when you said it gets us to first apron? This is the kind of trade that would not only get TC fired but probably make it hard for him to find another job. Talk about your massive overpay.

I get that you hate everything, but this is too good of a trade for us. This is not, in any way, an overpay. The only way this trade happens is if Detroit is so desperate to try to make some noise that they're willing to sell the future for veterans.

Cade is 23 and has gotten better every year. He's scoring 23.5 PPG on 45/38/77 shooting. 9 Assists, 7 Rebounds and almost 2 Stocks. He's worked his way up to being about a neutral defender.

Duren is only 21 and is your Center of the future. He led the league in DRB% last year. He's still raw, but he's so young with great size and athleticism. You couldn't ask for a better guy to learn from Rudy.

Reed is a rugged rebounder and defender off the bench. He's been a positive player every year if his career - and is still just 25 years old.

[cmoss84]

So in the end we manage to trade KAT, Miller, our 2030 pick swap top 1 protected, and our unprotected 2031 pick for Cade, Duren, and Paul Reed. Also did you factor in the dead money from KBD when you said it gets us to first apron? This is the kind of trade that would not only get TC fired but probably make it hard for him to find another job. Talk about your massive overpay.

This allows us to extend NAW and Naz, and yes, it puts us in 1st apron. Find something better and share my friend!
Randle isn't working, DD is unhappy blah blah blah, RD and Miller are good prospects but uncertainties...this gives us a fresh start while being competitive. Basically a 9-10 man rotation with quality depth everywhere.

PG: Cade, Mike, NAW, Nix
SG: ANT, NAW, TSJ
SF: Jaden, NAW, TSJ, Minott
PF: NAZ, Duran, Reed, Garza
C: Rudy, Duran, Reed, Garza

Duran cannot play with Reed or Gobert. One injury to Naz and the season is basically over. Duran is also not that good. Cade is also not moving for that package. I would need to do a deep dive but basically you want to turn Randle into a backup PF and backup C. One of whom needs to be able to space the floor.

Jaden can't play the 4?

[winforlose]

This allows us to extend NAW and Naz, and yes, it puts us in 1st apron. Find something better and share my friend!
Randle isn't working, DD is unhappy blah blah blah, RD and Miller are good prospects but uncertainties...this gives us a fresh start while being competitive. Basically a 9-10 man rotation with quality depth everywhere.

PG: Cade, Mike, NAW, Nix
SG: ANT, NAW, TSJ
SF: Jaden, NAW, TSJ, Minott
PF: NAZ, Duran, Reed, Garza
C: Rudy, Duran, Reed, Garza

Duran cannot play with Reed or Gobert. One injury to Naz and the season is basically over. Duran is also not that good. Cade is also not moving for that package. I would need to do a deep dive but basically you want to turn Randle into a backup PF and backup C. One of whom needs to be able to space the floor.

Jaden can't play the 4?

1. Not really no. He is just too small to defend anyone with a big body.

2. Jaden at the 4 only helps if Jaden can hit the deep ball more consistently. His offensive regression is forcing talk of starting NAW over him.

3. We saw how well non shooters playing together worked last year. When Karl went down we had Naz. You need floor spacing bigs to play with Rudy or you risk an offensive collapse.

[Klomp]

I am really confused why Randle is playing 33.8 mpg.

Because frankly, no matter what the eye test may say, he is still one of the better individual offensive players on the team right now. His issues on offense are about a lack of cohesion, not about a lack of production.

[winforlose]

Found a 3-way that works:

MN in: Cade, Duren, Reed
MN out: Randle, DD, RD, Miller
(gets us into 1st apron as well)
Cade-ANT-Jaden-NAZ-Rudy starting 5

Det in: Lavine, DD, RD, Miller, SAC '25 SRP, Chi '28 FRP
Det out: Cade, Duran, Ivey, Hardaway Jr., Reed
DD-Lavine-Fontecchio-Harris-Stewart starting 5

Chi in: Randle, Ivey, Hardaway Jr.
Chi out: Lavine, '25 SRP (via SAC), '28 FRP
White/Ball/Ivey/Giddey/Randle/Williams/Vucevic

So in the end we manage to trade KAT, Miller, our 2030 pick swap top 1 protected, and our unprotected 2031 pick for Cade, Duren, and Paul Reed. Also did you factor in the dead money from KBD when you said it gets us to first apron? This is the kind of trade that would not only get TC fired but probably make it hard for him to find another job. Talk about your massive overpay.

I get that you hate everything, but this is too good of a trade for us. This is not, in any way, an overpay. The only way this trade happens is if Detroit is so desperate to try to make some noise that they're willing to sell the future for veterans.

Cade is 23 and has gotten better every year. He's scoring 23.5 PPG on 45/38/77 shooting. 9 Assists, 7 Rebounds and almost 2 Stocks. He's worked his way up to being about a neutral defender.

Duren is only 21 and is your Center of the future. He led the league in DRB% last year. He's still raw, but he's so young with great size and athleticism. You couldn't ask for a better guy to learn from Rudy.

Reed is a rugged rebounder and defender off the bench. He's been a positive player every year if his career - and is still just 25 years old.

Duren can learn from Rudy but not play with him. That means he goes down to 18 minutes a game or less. He is averaging 5 field goal attempts per game, and 2.5 AST to 1.9 turnovers. Again, if Naz goes down he cannot share the floor with Paul Reed or Rudy. You wanna start Luka Garza at the PF or hope Jaden can do it with his inconsistent offense. The roster construction is a problem, Duren is a less skilled defender than Rudy with all the offensive negatives. You could do worse, but for the value you are tossing in, it should be better. Also you are losing the potential that Leonard Miller might develop. Miller gives you that floor spacing and would be much cheaper than Duran in two years.

Cade and Ant worries me a bit given that Cade seems to need a ton of shots. He also turns it over a lot, and that could be devastating on this team. That said, it does get you back into higher upside young player conversation. Yet, it cost you Karl, the pick swap, the unprotected pick, and Miller to acquire him. That is a fortune, and you still lack depth at PG if Mike goes out.

[shrink]

Keep in mind that our high payroll is a very big deal.

Last year, with a very successful season and plenty of playofff games, the team only had $305 million in revenue, which was #27 in NBA. We used $165 mil for player salaries, which represent only part of all the expenses the team has.

This year we have $204 mil in salaries and $96 mil in lux taxes. Yes, the salary component just jumped to $300 mil! Revenues aren’t going to come close to covering expenses this year, and ownership is going to have to dog deep in their pocket to pay the difference.

I think the Wolves are hoping Randle simply expires, but be careful on making trades for players we need to pay next year.

So, you’re half right. I agree with everything you said right up until “Revenues aren’t going to come close to covering expenses this year.” We have more national games, which in turn is more exposure which is more merch sales (especially if we can get our act together.) We have I believe fully sold out season tickets for the season (based on one of the pregame shows, I need to double check this,) presumably at a higher price point. I don’t think the new TV money applies yet, but more national games should mean more revenue as well (not 100% sure about this one.) Overall I think there is a good chance to increase total revenue to help cover new expenses. I just don’t think the ownership can expect any short term profit from this season. The long term profit comes from the increased value of the team and the influx of new tv money.

Keep in mind, we had 16 playoff games last year, which are better earners than regular season games.

I also don’t know how the loss of Fox Sports affects revenues this year.

[Norseman79]

I added more to the original post on Poole, take a peak and then we can talk. For BI we are not trading for him because we don’t want to pay him. That is my point. No one wants him because he wants too much next year.

"
"Jordan Poole is too inconsistent to be worth anything. His salary is hard to swallow because we won’t be able to move him again, he is putting up better numbers on a bad team, that is not the same as doing it on a good team. Plus long term we are committed to Dilly, and there is no way we are moving on from Naz. Your suggestion is not factoring in the second apron and the long term plans of the Wolves"

If I'm not mistaken, poole has 3 years remaining on this contract, two after this one. Won't his contract expire before we have to worry about signing Dillingham, if Dillingham even amounts to anything?

As for Naz, based off his play this year, what exactly do you think he is going to get? How much needs to be freed up? You're only chance at signing him is keeping Randle and letting him play out his contract. Then you better be damn sure Naz is worth what he is wanting as a starting pf, not a backup 5.

As for the Wolves plans? Who knows. Do I think they are going to trade for anyone exciting? No. Do I think Dillingham is an answer? No. I was super excited when they picked him, but seeing him on the court,his size and lack of athleticism will prevent much. I thought he was much more explosive vertically than he is. Maybe a Darius Garland....which is ok...


Ultimately I think we are stuck with what we have, will get to a 6 or 7 spot and lose first round.

Poole is a terrible defender, turns the ball over a lot, and is overpaid. None of that raises red flags for you on this team in particular? Do we even trust him to maintain his 3 point shooting post trade? If that is the best we can do for Randle keep Randle and send him home. Just the absence of Randle is better than Poole. Losing in the first round depends on Ant and whether can learn to play at his playoff level outside the playoffs, and thus help his team support him during the playoffs.

1. Poole is as good or better defender than Conley Jr at this point and ahead of Dillingham as well.

2. Many of his turnovers are due to him trying to do too much as the number one option in Washington. Will he continue to turn it over? Probably. You're not going to find anyone available who doesn't that can add anything else.

3. Most people are overpaid and the ones who aren't would never be available.

What if we get the Golden State Poole? Does that change any of your thoughts?

[winforlose]

"
"Jordan Poole is too inconsistent to be worth anything. His salary is hard to swallow because we won’t be able to move him again, he is putting up better numbers on a bad team, that is not the same as doing it on a good team. Plus long term we are committed to Dilly, and there is no way we are moving on from Naz. Your suggestion is not factoring in the second apron and the long term plans of the Wolves"

If I'm not mistaken, poole has 3 years remaining on this contract, two after this one. Won't his contract expire before we have to worry about signing Dillingham, if Dillingham even amounts to anything?

As for Naz, based off his play this year, what exactly do you think he is going to get? How much needs to be freed up? You're only chance at signing him is keeping Randle and letting him play out his contract. Then you better be damn sure Naz is worth what he is wanting as a starting pf, not a backup 5.

As for the Wolves plans? Who knows. Do I think they are going to trade for anyone exciting? No. Do I think Dillingham is an answer? No. I was super excited when they picked him, but seeing him on the court,his size and lack of athleticism will prevent much. I thought he was much more explosive vertically than he is. Maybe a Darius Garland....which is ok...


Ultimately I think we are stuck with what we have, will get to a 6 or 7 spot and lose first round.

Poole is a terrible defender, turns the ball over a lot, and is overpaid. None of that raises red flags for you on this team in particular? Do we even trust him to maintain his 3 point shooting post trade? If that is the best we can do for Randle keep Randle and send him home. Just the absence of Randle is better than Poole. Losing in the first round depends on Ant and whether can learn to play at his playoff level outside the playoffs, and thus help his team support him during the playoffs.

1. Poole is as good or better defender than Conley Jr at this point and ahead of Dillingham as well.

2. Many of his turnovers are due to him trying to do too much as the number one option in Washington. Will he continue to turn it over? Probably. You're not going to find anyone available who doesn't that can add anything else.

3. Most people are overpaid and the ones who aren't would never be available.

What if we get the Golden State Poole? Does that change any of your thoughts?

Let me ask you this, pretend you can get most of DDV from last year. Not all, but 80% of who he was. Would you rather have him or Poole?

[winforlose]

So pretend you are sending out Miller and Randle and you are getting back JV from the Wizards to play backup C and some other player from a third team to play backup PF. Miller is the bait to get the Wizards to give up JV and maybe take Randle, but what do the Wizards give to get us a backup PF, and who is that PF? Any ideas?

[winforlose]

Keep in mind that our high payroll is a very big deal.

Last year, with a very successful season and plenty of playofff games, the team only had $305 million in revenue, which was #27 in NBA. We used $165 mil for player salaries, which represent only part of all the expenses the team has.

This year we have $204 mil in salaries and $96 mil in lux taxes. Yes, the salary component just jumped to $300 mil! Revenues aren’t going to come close to covering expenses this year, and ownership is going to have to dog deep in their pocket to pay the difference.

I think the Wolves are hoping Randle simply expires, but be careful on making trades for players we need to pay next year.

So, you’re half right. I agree with everything you said right up until “Revenues aren’t going to come close to covering expenses this year.” We have more national games, which in turn is more exposure which is more merch sales (especially if we can get our act together.) We have I believe fully sold out season tickets for the season (based on one of the pregame shows, I need to double check this,) presumably at a higher price point. I don’t think the new TV money applies yet, but more national games should mean more revenue as well (not 100% sure about this one.) Overall I think there is a good chance to increase total revenue to help cover new expenses. I just don’t think the ownership can expect any short term profit from this season. The long term profit comes from the increased value of the team and the influx of new tv money.

Keep in mind, we had 16 playoff games last year, which are better earners than regular season games.

I also don’t know how the loss of Fox Sports affects revenues this year.

Very good points. There is a lot we cannot account for even if we had the exact numbers, which we don’t. All in I would hope we get close to breaking even and then from there we at least know who owns the Wolves and can begin to figure out what they are willing to pay to contend.

[shrink]

Ingram makes $36.0, Siakim makes $42.2. Since they make more than Randle, we need to aggregate, which means our total payroll has to be under the second apron ($189.5) when the transactions are completed.

Our current payroll is $199.8, so we would need to send out at least $46.3 mil for Ingram, or $52.5 mil for Siakim.

Randle makes $33.1. The gap would mean hard choices between

$43.8 Gobert
$42.2 Ant
$23.0 Jaden
$14.0 Naz
$11.4 Donte
$10.0 Conley

Also, keep in mind that we would need to come up with incentive for IND, and we would also want to pay these players going forward, which might mean not having the money to pay Naz. A trade isn’t impossible legally, but it seems very difficult to pull off.

Shrink:
#1 Thanks for your patience with me
#2 How are we able to trade for Ingram or Siakam but not Cade?

#1. No problem! Happy to share knowledge on this topic, since so many of you teach me basketball x-and-o’s!

#2. None of these players can be traded straight up, as long as we are above the second apron. Cade would be $39.7 mil for us in incoming salary, so you can use my example to do the math.

One thing I should point out in that example is that I’m showing a technically legal way to do a deal - but it would be almost impossible realistically. MIN would need a team that wants to trade that player, for our limited incentive, and we’d also need a team (or third team) that could legally absorb at least $10 mil in payroll and not go over aprons themselves.

This would be particularly hard for Cade, who only counts for $13.9 mil in outgoing salary to the Pistons. They couldn’t absorb the nearly $50 mil we’d need to send out to make the deal legal.

[Norseman79]

Poole is a terrible defender, turns the ball over a lot, and is overpaid. None of that raises red flags for you on this team in particular? Do we even trust him to maintain his 3 point shooting post trade? If that is the best we can do for Randle keep Randle and send him home. Just the absence of Randle is better than Poole. Losing in the first round depends on Ant and whether can learn to play at his playoff level outside the playoffs, and thus help his team support him during the playoffs.

1. Poole is as good or better defender than Conley Jr at this point and ahead of Dillingham as well.

2. Many of his turnovers are due to him trying to do too much as the number one option in Washington. Will he continue to turn it over? Probably. You're not going to find anyone available who doesn't that can add anything else.

3. Most people are overpaid and the ones who aren't would never be available.

What if we get the Golden State Poole? Does that change any of your thoughts?

Let me ask you this, pretend you can get most of DDV from last year. Not all, but 80% of who he was. Would you rather have him or Poole?

Depends which Poole am I getting?