Official RJ Barrett Thread Part 2

[PushDaRock]

Watch on YouTube

Good breakdown by Sam Vecenie of RJ's game, and in particular highlighting some of the improvements he's seen in his game since he arrived in Toronto.

Vecenie is overall very positive about RJ, and the Raps in general.

If you are a fan of the Toronto Raptors, please watch this video.

There is good analysis in there of his hits and misses that objectively show he's improving.

He called RJ an "underrated asset league wide right now" and "definitely a dude worth continuing to track and continuing to watch league wide."

He is underrated across the league, let's not underrate one of our own at home.

It's so much fun to have a power driver on your team. His one handed gather is a thing of beauty.

I also think his driving is contagious.

Really feels like they got him watching a lot of Manu tape as he seems to be have borrowed a lot from him. Manu was also a 1 foot jumper and it allowed him to get a lot more creative as a finisher than just power lay ups off 2 feet.

[Vampirate]

Hopefully he wont be hung out to dry if we have IQ / Olynyk / Brown back.

Dick/Olynyk/Brown is the foundation of a very good bench unit. Add a starter in with the bench (IQ or Barnes) as well as like Mogbo or someone and thats a hell of a unit to run against benches.


Also - to say GD has a higher ceiling than RJ is wild. DIck putting up 24/6/6 would be about the best case scenario for him. He is never gonna be a better defender than RJ is, so IDK what expectations you got for him but sheesh

Because Gradey is much harder to 'shut down' than RJ is.

Remember when Barnes was off Gradey was stepping up while we were getting NY RJ.

I don't know how true that is. He was struggling pretty badly to get his shots off after he got on every team's scouting report. Getting to the FT line is what stopped his efficiency from totally tanking.

Keep in mind this is the same guy who pretty much blew past the ceiling people thought he had in his sophomore year.

Also, 91% FT shooter on decent volume before he went down.

The simple fact is Gradey has more hot zones on the court than RJ has, his biggest weakness is finishing at the rim which can be improved upon.

A guy who can pull up from anywhere is basically what Gradey is.

[Boogie!]

Because Gradey is much harder to 'shut down' than RJ is.

Remember when Barnes was off Gradey was stepping up while we were getting NY RJ.

I don't know how true that is. He was struggling pretty badly to get his shots off after he got on every team's scouting report. Getting to the FT line is what stopped his efficiency from totally tanking.

Keep in mind this is the same guy who pretty much blew past the ceiling people thought he had in his sophomore year.

Also, 91% FT shooter on decent volume before he went down.

The simple fact is Gradey has more hot zones on the court than RJ has, his biggest weakness is finishing at the rim which can be improved upon.

A guy who can pull up from anywhere is basically what Gradey is.

until gradey dick can hit 3's at an elite rate for a shooter, he's not a better overall scorer than rj. gradey started off the season well but the fact he's at the percentages he's at now means hes had a pretty horrible stretch before he went down. what you said about finishing at the rim being improved is completely backwards. People that have a hard time finishing at the rim do so because they either lack the footwork, body control, touch, athleticism and/or explosiveness to make it happen. guys like trent can shoot, but will never ever be a good finisher at the rim. in contrast, norman powell was always great around the rim due to his physical ability and then worked to become an elite shooter. same with siakam, good natural ability around the rim, developed a jump shot later. you never see guys that struggle finishing at the rim, end up somehow being good at it later on. that's why they end up staying perimeter players. shooting is easier to teach than finishing, because finishing requires a physical skillset that many people dont have.

that's why rj simply lacking a jumpshot makes his potential higher. the stuff he's able to do to draw contact, create angles off his drives to get layups, the footwork and craftiness to get to his spots to finish, those are all things that a lot of people will never develop. now he has an average 3 point shot in his repertoire. and without the mid range he's still scoring efficiently and putting up 30 point games on good percentages. he's basically analytics basketball to a t. again, the only reason rj isn't considered an elite scorer is because his free throw percentages are horrible. and again thats something that can be improved, much easier than teaching gradey dick how to learn to finish inside.

[Vampirate]

I don't know how true that is. He was struggling pretty badly to get his shots off after he got on every team's scouting report. Getting to the FT line is what stopped his efficiency from totally tanking.

Keep in mind this is the same guy who pretty much blew past the ceiling people thought he had in his sophomore year.

Also, 91% FT shooter on decent volume before he went down.

The simple fact is Gradey has more hot zones on the court than RJ has, his biggest weakness is finishing at the rim which can be improved upon.

A guy who can pull up from anywhere is basically what Gradey is.

until gradey dick can hit 3's at an elite rate for a shooter, he's not a better overall scorer than rj. gradey started off the season well but the fact he's at the percentages he's at now means hes had a pretty horrible stretch before he went down. what you said about finishing at the rim being improved is completely backwards. People that have a hard time finishing at the rim do so because they either lack the footwork, body control, touch, athleticism and/or explosiveness to make it happen. guys like trent can shoot, but will never ever be a good finisher at the rim. in contrast, norman powell was always great around the rim due to his physical ability and then worked to become an elite shooter. same with siakam, good natural ability around the rim, developed a jump shot later. you never see guys that struggle finishing at the rim, end up somehow being good at it later on. that's why they end up staying perimeter players. shooting is easier to teach than finishing, because finishing requires a physical skillset that many people dont have.

that's why rj simply lacking a jumpshot makes his potential higher. the stuff he's able to do to draw contact, create angles off his drives to get layups, the footwork and craftiness to get to his spots to finish, those are all things that a lot of people will never develop. now he has an average 3 point shot in his repertoire. and without the mid range he's still scoring efficiently and putting up 30 point games on good percentages. he's basically analytics basketball to a t. again, the only reason rj isn't considered an elite scorer is because his free throw percentages are horrible. and again thats something that can be improved, much easier than teaching gradey dick how to learn to finish inside.

You are literally white knighting RJ when you are forgetting we are comparing RJ 'to a sophomore'

[pingpongrac]

I don't mind GD being the 6th man this year, but he can't be hung out to dry being surrounded by 4 bench players like we've seen happen all too often with this team. He needs to have the majority of his minutes be with 3-4 starters, he has a higher ceiling than RJ IMO and is the longer term play at the 2/3, so if the argument is that RJ needs to play with better players, so does GD and tossing him with our bench is a recipe for disaster.

I think as long as both RJ and GD are making valid arguments for who should be taking that starter spot long term, we're in a good place.

Hopefully he wont be hung out to dry if we have IQ / Olynyk / Brown back.

Dick/Olynyk/Brown is the foundation of a very good bench unit. Add a starter in with the bench (IQ or Barnes) as well as like Mogbo or someone and thats a hell of a unit to run against benches.


Also - to say GD has a higher ceiling than RJ is wild. DIck putting up 24/6/6 would be about the best case scenario for him. He is never gonna be a better defender than RJ is, so IDK what expectations you got for him but sheesh

Because Gradey is much harder to 'shut down' than RJ is.

Remember when Barnes was off Gradey was stepping up while we were getting NY RJ.

That's not true. RJ put up 24/7/7 in the 11 games that Scottie missed while Gradey put up 20/3/3. Gradey's efficiency was better (56 TS% vs 52 TS%), but it was driven by his free throw shooting while their FG% (42% for both) and 3FG% (35% for Gradey and 34% for RJ) were nearly identical.

[billy_hoyle]

Hopefully he wont be hung out to dry if we have IQ / Olynyk / Brown back.

Dick/Olynyk/Brown is the foundation of a very good bench unit. Add a starter in with the bench (IQ or Barnes) as well as like Mogbo or someone and thats a hell of a unit to run against benches.


Also - to say GD has a higher ceiling than RJ is wild. DIck putting up 24/6/6 would be about the best case scenario for him. He is never gonna be a better defender than RJ is, so IDK what expectations you got for him but sheesh

Because Gradey is much harder to 'shut down' than RJ is.

Remember when Barnes was off Gradey was stepping up while we were getting NY RJ.

That's not true. RJ put up 24/7/7 in the 11 games that Scottie missed while Gradey put up 20/3/3. Gradey's efficiency was better (56 TS% vs 52 TS%), but it was driven by his free throw shooting while their FG% (42% for both) and 3FG% (35% for Gradey and 34% for RJ) were nearly identical.

Ya.

I think people are just idealizing archetypes here.

People put a Reggie, Klay, Rip, Ray Allen (even Korver or Reddick) type impact on Dicks ceiling. Those guys are very difficult to shut down as elite movement shooters.

RJ is more difficult to really put a comp on, and one of his major ones is DeMar, which everyone here saw fail over and over in the playoffs, so I think we are negatively biased against him. If he was compared to Jaylen Brown, Caron Butler, Mitch Richmond, Latrell Sprewell types maybe the ceiling looks a little higher (although DeMar has had a comparable career to some of these guys). Defense seems to be the great separator here, if RJ can improve he looks drastically better IMO.

[Scase]

Hopefully he wont be hung out to dry if we have IQ / Olynyk / Brown back.

Dick/Olynyk/Brown is the foundation of a very good bench unit. Add a starter in with the bench (IQ or Barnes) as well as like Mogbo or someone and thats a hell of a unit to run against benches.


Also - to say GD has a higher ceiling than RJ is wild. DIck putting up 24/6/6 would be about the best case scenario for him. He is never gonna be a better defender than RJ is, so IDK what expectations you got for him but sheesh

Because Gradey is much harder to 'shut down' than RJ is.

Remember when Barnes was off Gradey was stepping up while we were getting NY RJ.

I don't know how true that is. He was struggling pretty badly to get his shots off after he got on every team's scouting report. Getting to the FT line is what stopped his efficiency from totally tanking.

GD was doing this in games 61 through 77 of his NBA career in his second year, no one is talking about him being miles above RJ now, but that his projected ceiling would be higher. RJ is objectively the better player at the moment, but I think GD has the higher ceiling overall. Whether he reaches it or not is another thing entirely.

[Boogie!]

Keep in mind this is the same guy who pretty much blew past the ceiling people thought he had in his sophomore year.

Also, 91% FT shooter on decent volume before he went down.

The simple fact is Gradey has more hot zones on the court than RJ has, his biggest weakness is finishing at the rim which can be improved upon.

A guy who can pull up from anywhere is basically what Gradey is.

until gradey dick can hit 3's at an elite rate for a shooter, he's not a better overall scorer than rj. gradey started off the season well but the fact he's at the percentages he's at now means hes had a pretty horrible stretch before he went down. what you said about finishing at the rim being improved is completely backwards. People that have a hard time finishing at the rim do so because they either lack the footwork, body control, touch, athleticism and/or explosiveness to make it happen. guys like trent can shoot, but will never ever be a good finisher at the rim. in contrast, norman powell was always great around the rim due to his physical ability and then worked to become an elite shooter. same with siakam, good natural ability around the rim, developed a jump shot later. you never see guys that struggle finishing at the rim, end up somehow being good at it later on. that's why they end up staying perimeter players. shooting is easier to teach than finishing, because finishing requires a physical skillset that many people dont have.

that's why rj simply lacking a jumpshot makes his potential higher. the stuff he's able to do to draw contact, create angles off his drives to get layups, the footwork and craftiness to get to his spots to finish, those are all things that a lot of people will never develop. now he has an average 3 point shot in his repertoire. and without the mid range he's still scoring efficiently and putting up 30 point games on good percentages. he's basically analytics basketball to a t. again, the only reason rj isn't considered an elite scorer is because his free throw percentages are horrible. and again thats something that can be improved, much easier than teaching gradey dick how to learn to finish inside.

You are literally white knighting RJ when you are forgetting we are comparing RJ 'to a sophomore'

Are you gonna debate basketball or are you just gonna gaslight any time I make an argument in favour of rj.

And then when I come back with an attitude I'm "antagonistic". Tell me which part about what I sId was wrong. You think someone like gary trsnt can practice being a better finisher?

Again your argument is literally based on some arbitrary thinf like youth and seasons in the league. I'm talking about skillsets which is something you seem to have a hars time evaluating.

Thia is the same argument I had when they traded for trentvand I sId he wouldn't ever be better than norman powell and people kept saying youth how can you make that statement when he's so much younger.

[Vampirate]

until gradey dick can hit 3's at an elite rate for a shooter, he's not a better overall scorer than rj. gradey started off the season well but the fact he's at the percentages he's at now means hes had a pretty horrible stretch before he went down. what you said about finishing at the rim being improved is completely backwards. People that have a hard time finishing at the rim do so because they either lack the footwork, body control, touch, athleticism and/or explosiveness to make it happen. guys like trent can shoot, but will never ever be a good finisher at the rim. in contrast, norman powell was always great around the rim due to his physical ability and then worked to become an elite shooter. same with siakam, good natural ability around the rim, developed a jump shot later. you never see guys that struggle finishing at the rim, end up somehow being good at it later on. that's why they end up staying perimeter players. shooting is easier to teach than finishing, because finishing requires a physical skillset that many people dont have.

that's why rj simply lacking a jumpshot makes his potential higher. the stuff he's able to do to draw contact, create angles off his drives to get layups, the footwork and craftiness to get to his spots to finish, those are all things that a lot of people will never develop. now he has an average 3 point shot in his repertoire. and without the mid range he's still scoring efficiently and putting up 30 point games on good percentages. he's basically analytics basketball to a t. again, the only reason rj isn't considered an elite scorer is because his free throw percentages are horrible. and again thats something that can be improved, much easier than teaching gradey dick how to learn to finish inside.

You are literally white knighting RJ when you are forgetting we are comparing RJ 'to a sophomore'

Are you gonna debate basketball or are you just gonna gaslight any time I make an argument in favour of rj.

And then when I come back with an attitude I'm "antagonistic". Tell me which part about what I sId was wrong. You think someone like gary trsnt can practice being a better finisher?

Again your argument is literally based on some arbitrary thinf like youth and seasons in the league. I'm talking about skillsets which is something you seem to have a hars time evaluating.

Thia is the same argument I had when they traded for trentvand I sId he wouldn't ever be better than norman powell and people kept saying youth how can you make that statement when he's so much younger.

The biggest thing that separates RJ from being a true star is pull up ability.

Gradey has it, IQ has it, Barnes has it (2P pull up).

RJ needs side steps, stop in motion, change of direction to truly get to another level.

Off ball driver he's excellent at, but he really needs that start then sudden stop in his game.

Gradey is literally a threat to pull up from anywhere, and is a very very good mid range shooter.

Gradey is a threat, regardless of where he's at. If RJ wants to truly get to another level, he needs to add something totally new as a scorer.

[Thaddy]

We should stagger RJ instead of Barnes. RJ as the back up point guard makes a lot of sense. He's a league leader in PPP as the ball handler in pick and rolls. There's potential there for him, Boucher, and Mogbo. The same goes for putting Dick next to him off the bench as our primary scorers.

Poeltl - Olynyk
Barnes - Mogbo - Boucher
Barrett - Brown
Agbaji - Dick
IQ - Barrett - Mitchell

The starting line up should have Barnes, IQ as the primary options while the bench should have Barrett and Dick as the primary options. We can use Mitchell when the defense is very porous and we have an opposing guard lighting us up.

[bonjovi0308]

I don't know how true that is. He was struggling pretty badly to get his shots off after he got on every team's scouting report. Getting to the FT line is what stopped his efficiency from totally tanking.

Keep in mind this is the same guy who pretty much blew past the ceiling people thought he had in his sophomore year.

Also, 91% FT shooter on decent volume before he went down.

The simple fact is Gradey has more hot zones on the court than RJ has, his biggest weakness is finishing at the rim which can be improved upon.

A guy who can pull up from anywhere is basically what Gradey is.

until gradey dick can hit 3's at an elite rate for a shooter, he's not a better overall scorer than rj. gradey started off the season well but the fact he's at the percentages he's at now means hes had a pretty horrible stretch before he went down. what you said about finishing at the rim being improved is completely backwards. People that have a hard time finishing at the rim do so because they either lack the footwork, body control, touch, athleticism and/or explosiveness to make it happen. guys like trent can shoot, but will never ever be a good finisher at the rim. in contrast, norman powell was always great around the rim due to his physical ability and then worked to become an elite shooter. same with siakam, good natural ability around the rim, developed a jump shot later. you never see guys that struggle finishing at the rim, end up somehow being good at it later on. that's why they end up staying perimeter players. shooting is easier to teach than finishing, because finishing requires a physical skillset that many people dont have.

that's why rj simply lacking a jumpshot makes his potential higher. the stuff he's able to do to draw contact, create angles off his drives to get layups, the footwork and craftiness to get to his spots to finish, those are all things that a lot of people will never develop. now he has an average 3 point shot in his repertoire. and without the mid range he's still scoring efficiently and putting up 30 point games on good percentages. he's basically analytics basketball to a t. again, the only reason rj isn't considered an elite scorer is because his free throw percentages are horrible. and again thats something that can be improved, much easier than teaching gradey dick how to learn to finish inside.

Sincere question: what makes you think RJ still have potential to have a significant leap in his free throw % by now? He probably knows he's sucks at the free throw line by his 2nd year in the NBA already

[Boogie!]

You are literally white knighting RJ when you are forgetting we are comparing RJ 'to a sophomore'

Are you gonna debate basketball or are you just gonna gaslight any time I make an argument in favour of rj.

And then when I come back with an attitude I'm "antagonistic". Tell me which part about what I sId was wrong. You think someone like gary trsnt can practice being a better finisher?

Again your argument is literally based on some arbitrary thinf like youth and seasons in the league. I'm talking about skillsets which is something you seem to have a hars time evaluating.

Thia is the same argument I had when they traded for trentvand I sId he wouldn't ever be better than norman powell and people kept saying youth how can you make that statement when he's so much younger.

The biggest thing that separates RJ from being a true star is pull up ability.

Gradey has it, IQ has it, Barnes has it (2P pull up).

RJ needs side steps, stop in motion, change of direction to truly get to another level.

Off ball driver he's excellent at, but he really needs that start then sudden stop in his game.

Gradey is literally a threat to pull up from anywhere, and is a very very good mid range shooter.

Gradey is a threat, regardless of where he's at. If RJ wants to truly get to another level, he needs to add something totally new as a scorer.

Rj can get you a bucket on his own. I'm not sure why you continue to marginalize him as on off ball driver. Go look at his highlights from last game against the pacers. It's weird how you bring up these things like side steps and change of direction in regards to rj when his biggest strength is his craftiness and footwork attacking the basket hence the ststemen5 he does things that no one else on the tram can do.

If he's scoring efficiently thr way he does, he doesn't NEED a pull up. Pull ups are for people who struggle finishing at the basket at will. Rj developing a pull will actually make him elite, but even at rjs current level gradey is not a better scorer regardless of the 3 level label. Just because a guy in theory can shoot 3s and mid range shots and occasionally finish st the basket doesn't mean **** if he's not doing it consistsntlt or efficiently.

And I'm gonna go back to the point about iys easier improving your finishing ability inside is just plain wrong. The fact that you made a statement like that and still have the attitude to make it seem like I'm the white knight to me discredits your entire method of evaluation. Name me a player that was primarily a shooter, sucked at finishing inside, that all of a sudden developed finishing ability as part of their repertoire.

[Vampirate]

Are you gonna debate basketball or are you just gonna gaslight any time I make an argument in favour of rj.

And then when I come back with an attitude I'm "antagonistic". Tell me which part about what I sId was wrong. You think someone like gary trsnt can practice being a better finisher?

Again your argument is literally based on some arbitrary thinf like youth and seasons in the league. I'm talking about skillsets which is something you seem to have a hars time evaluating.

Thia is the same argument I had when they traded for trentvand I sId he wouldn't ever be better than norman powell and people kept saying youth how can you make that statement when he's so much younger.

The biggest thing that separates RJ from being a true star is pull up ability.

Gradey has it, IQ has it, Barnes has it (2P pull up).

RJ needs side steps, stop in motion, change of direction to truly get to another level.

Off ball driver he's excellent at, but he really needs that start then sudden stop in his game.

Gradey is literally a threat to pull up from anywhere, and is a very very good mid range shooter.

Gradey is a threat, regardless of where he's at. If RJ wants to truly get to another level, he needs to add something totally new as a scorer.

Rj can get you a bucket on his own. I'm not sure why you continue to marginalize him as on off ball driver. Go look at his highlights from last game against the pacers. It's weird how you bring up these things like side steps and change of direction in regards to rj when his biggest strength is his craftiness and footwork attacking the basket hence the ststemen5 he does things that no one else on the tram can do.

If he's scoring efficiently thr way he does, he doesn't NEED a pull up. Pull ups are for people who struggle finishing at the basket at will. Rj developing a pull will actually make him elite, but even at rjs current level gradey is not a better scorer regardless of the 3 level label. Just because a guy in theory can shoot 3s and mid range shots and occasionally finish st the basket doesn't mean **** if he's not doing it consistsntlt or efficiently.

And I'm gonna go back to the point about iys easier improving your finishing ability inside is just plain wrong. The fact that you made a statement like that and still have the attitude to make it seem like I'm the white knight to me discredits your entire method of evaluation. Name me a player that was primarily a shooter, sucked at finishing inside, that all of a sudden developed finishing ability as part of their repertoire.

Gradey is a career .591 at the rim, RJ is a career .624.

Gradey's finishing at the rim could get worse, or it actually go closer to when he was .638 through 60 games last year.

And yes, RJ needs a pull up game.

[Vampirate]

Are you gonna debate basketball or are you just gonna gaslight any time I make an argument in favour of rj.

And then when I come back with an attitude I'm "antagonistic". Tell me which part about what I sId was wrong. You think someone like gary trsnt can practice being a better finisher?

Again your argument is literally based on some arbitrary thinf like youth and seasons in the league. I'm talking about skillsets which is something you seem to have a hars time evaluating.

Thia is the same argument I had when they traded for trentvand I sId he wouldn't ever be better than norman powell and people kept saying youth how can you make that statement when he's so much younger.

The biggest thing that separates RJ from being a true star is pull up ability.

Gradey has it, IQ has it, Barnes has it (2P pull up).

RJ needs side steps, stop in motion, change of direction to truly get to another level.

Off ball driver he's excellent at, but he really needs that start then sudden stop in his game.

Gradey is literally a threat to pull up from anywhere, and is a very very good mid range shooter.

Gradey is a threat, regardless of where he's at. If RJ wants to truly get to another level, he needs to add something totally new as a scorer.

Rj can get you a bucket on his own. I'm not sure why you continue to marginalize him as on off ball driver. Go look at his highlights from last game against the pacers. It's weird how you bring up these things like side steps and change of direction in regards to rj when his biggest strength is his craftiness and footwork attacking the basket hence the ststemen5 he does things that no one else on the tram can do.

If he's scoring efficiently thr way he does, he doesn't NEED a pull up. Pull ups are for people who struggle finishing at the basket at will. Rj developing a pull will actually make him elite, but even at rjs current level gradey is not a better scorer regardless of the 3 level label. Just because a guy in theory can shoot 3s and mid range shots and occasionally finish st the basket doesn't mean **** if he's not doing it consistsntlt or efficiently.

And I'm gonna go back to the point about iys easier improving your finishing ability inside is just plain wrong. The fact that you made a statement like that and still have the attitude to make it seem like I'm the white knight to me discredits your entire method of evaluation. Name me a player that was primarily a shooter, sucked at finishing inside, that all of a sudden developed finishing ability as part of their repertoire.

We can argue ceilings until the cows come home but....

Honestly, here's the bigger question.

Between Barnes, IQ, Gradey and RJ...

Why can't we have 4 All Stars?

[raptorforlife88]

Sincere question: what makes you think RJ still have potential to have a significant leap in his free throw % by now? He probably knows he's sucks at the free throw line by his 2nd year in the NBA already

I think that one's pretty simple, it's because he's been a better FT shooter before already. He's had a couple of seasons where he shot 74%. If he was just doing that it would be fine. If he was a couple of points better than that it would be nice.

He doesn't need a significant leap, he just needs to get back to where he's been at least.

[Shwaguy]

I don't know how true that is. He was struggling pretty badly to get his shots off after he got on every team's scouting report. Getting to the FT line is what stopped his efficiency from totally tanking.

Keep in mind this is the same guy who pretty much blew past the ceiling people thought he had in his sophomore year.

Also, 91% FT shooter on decent volume before he went down.

The simple fact is Gradey has more hot zones on the court than RJ has, his biggest weakness is finishing at the rim which can be improved upon.

A guy who can pull up from anywhere is basically what Gradey is.

until gradey dick can hit 3's at an elite rate for a shooter, he's not a better overall scorer than rj. gradey started off the season well but the fact he's at the percentages he's at now means hes had a pretty horrible stretch before he went down. what you said about finishing at the rim being improved is completely backwards. People that have a hard time finishing at the rim do so because they either lack the footwork, body control, touch, athleticism and/or explosiveness to make it happen. guys like trent can shoot, but will never ever be a good finisher at the rim. in contrast, norman powell was always great around the rim due to his physical ability and then worked to become an elite shooter. same with siakam, good natural ability around the rim, developed a jump shot later. you never see guys that struggle finishing at the rim, end up somehow being good at it later on. that's why they end up staying perimeter players. shooting is easier to teach than finishing, because finishing requires a physical skillset that many people dont have.

that's why rj simply lacking a jumpshot makes his potential higher. the stuff he's able to do to draw contact, create angles off his drives to get layups, the footwork and craftiness to get to his spots to finish, those are all things that a lot of people will never develop. now he has an average 3 point shot in his repertoire. and without the mid range he's still scoring efficiently and putting up 30 point games on good percentages. he's basically analytics basketball to a t. again, the only reason rj isn't considered an elite scorer is because his free throw percentages are horrible. and again thats something that can be improved, much easier than teaching gradey dick how to learn to finish inside.

This is pretty much guaranteed to happen. I have a bridge to sell you if you think Gradey will only be a 35% shooter from 3 this season, let alone on his career.

Finishing at the rim for Gradey is more likely to improve than RJ's FTs as well to me. Most of Gradey's weaknesses derive from one thing - Lack of physical strength. This is probably the most simple part of a player's toolkit to improve (The next thing would be a tighter handle), Improving FT % 5 years into a career is pretty rare, as it's often a mental thing.

I disagree fundamentally on every level with you that RJs skillset is easier to round out than Gradey's. The opposite of this is the actual truth of the matter.

One needs to get stronger, and more experienced, as a 21 year old sophomore. The other needs to develop actual basketball skills as a 24 year old year 5 player.

Getting stronger and more experienced is essentially guaranteed to happen when you've just turned 21 years old.

[Shwaguy]

The biggest thing that separates RJ from being a true star is pull up ability.

Gradey has it, IQ has it, Barnes has it (2P pull up).

RJ needs side steps, stop in motion, change of direction to truly get to another level.

Off ball driver he's excellent at, but he really needs that start then sudden stop in his game.

Gradey is literally a threat to pull up from anywhere, and is a very very good mid range shooter.

Gradey is a threat, regardless of where he's at. If RJ wants to truly get to another level, he needs to add something totally new as a scorer.

Rj can get you a bucket on his own. I'm not sure why you continue to marginalize him as on off ball driver. Go look at his highlights from last game against the pacers. It's weird how you bring up these things like side steps and change of direction in regards to rj when his biggest strength is his craftiness and footwork attacking the basket hence the ststemen5 he does things that no one else on the tram can do.

If he's scoring efficiently thr way he does, he doesn't NEED a pull up. Pull ups are for people who struggle finishing at the basket at will. Rj developing a pull will actually make him elite, but even at rjs current level gradey is not a better scorer regardless of the 3 level label. Just because a guy in theory can shoot 3s and mid range shots and occasionally finish st the basket doesn't mean **** if he's not doing it consistsntlt or efficiently.

And I'm gonna go back to the point about iys easier improving your finishing ability inside is just plain wrong. The fact that you made a statement like that and still have the attitude to make it seem like I'm the white knight to me discredits your entire method of evaluation. Name me a player that was primarily a shooter, sucked at finishing inside, that all of a sudden developed finishing ability as part of their repertoire.

We can argue ceilings until the cows come home but....

Honestly, here's the bigger question.

Between Barnes, IQ, Gradey and RJ...

Why can't we have 4 All Stars?

Not certain IQ or Barnes belong in that group for different reasons, Barnes already an all star and clearly above the rest and IQ's ceiling isn't with the other 2 either imo. Both Gradey and RJ can turn out good.

Long term I do not see a combo of them at the 2 and 3 working out though. One would have to accept a bench role (Should be RJ, due to playstyles).

[Vampirate]

Rj can get you a bucket on his own. I'm not sure why you continue to marginalize him as on off ball driver. Go look at his highlights from last game against the pacers. It's weird how you bring up these things like side steps and change of direction in regards to rj when his biggest strength is his craftiness and footwork attacking the basket hence the ststemen5 he does things that no one else on the tram can do.

If he's scoring efficiently thr way he does, he doesn't NEED a pull up. Pull ups are for people who struggle finishing at the basket at will. Rj developing a pull will actually make him elite, but even at rjs current level gradey is not a better scorer regardless of the 3 level label. Just because a guy in theory can shoot 3s and mid range shots and occasionally finish st the basket doesn't mean **** if he's not doing it consistsntlt or efficiently.

And I'm gonna go back to the point about iys easier improving your finishing ability inside is just plain wrong. The fact that you made a statement like that and still have the attitude to make it seem like I'm the white knight to me discredits your entire method of evaluation. Name me a player that was primarily a shooter, sucked at finishing inside, that all of a sudden developed finishing ability as part of their repertoire.

We can argue ceilings until the cows come home but....

Honestly, here's the bigger question.

Between Barnes, IQ, Gradey and RJ...

Why can't we have 4 All Stars?

Not certain IQ or Barnes belong in that group for different reasons, Barnes already an all star and clearly above the rest and IQ's ceiling isn't with the other 2 either imo. Both Gradey and RJ can turn out good.

Long term I do not see a combo of them at the 2 and 3 working out though. One would have to accept a bench role (Should be RJ, due to playstyles).

Assuming full health there's about to be a canyon size in terms of space.

RJ and Barnes are about 38% catch and shoot players.

Gradey and IQ are just very good shooters and can pull up from 3.

Add in Battle and Ochai and..yeah, quite the opposite from 2 years ago.

[dballislife]

should probably just merge the rj and scottie threads, because both are big parts of the future

[Shwaguy]

We can argue ceilings until the cows come home but....

Honestly, here's the bigger question.

Between Barnes, IQ, Gradey and RJ...

Why can't we have 4 All Stars?

Not certain IQ or Barnes belong in that group for different reasons, Barnes already an all star and clearly above the rest and IQ's ceiling isn't with the other 2 either imo. Both Gradey and RJ can turn out good.

Long term I do not see a combo of them at the 2 and 3 working out though. One would have to accept a bench role (Should be RJ, due to playstyles).

Assuming full health there's about to be a canyon size in terms of space.

RJ and Barnes are about 38% catch and shoot players.

Gradey and IQ are just very good shooters and can pull up from 3.

Add in Battle and Ochai and..yeah, quite the opposite from 2 years ago.

Just said in another thread but I wish Kelly was healthy honestly just cause we could finally see what a proper 4 out + Barnes offence looks like with him in.

If we end up drafting between 5-12 I really want Maluach cause he could fit these types of lineups as well.

Would even like to see some crazy 4 out + Barnes at the 5 lineups even.