At what point do Lakers fans owe Darvin Ham an apology?

[reddyplayerone]

We're gonna owe JJ an apology before Darvin even gets his, and poor Vogel is still owed one too.

I'm pretty firmly in the camp that didn't think Darvin was that bad at all really, and I don't think I can say JJ is particularly good or bad at this point in his career either.

Idk I just think it's funny because I remember Ham getting criticized for things like drop coverage last year, when to this point we can say very safely that the Lakers were better defensively last year too.

But like he was getting crushed by fans all over for keeping D'Lo in the lineup while he was struggling around this time last year, and then he was crushed by fans after benching D'lo, and, and, and... Meanwhile JJ benches D'Lo and it's golf claps, at least for now.

People really just decided Darvin was a bad coach six months removed from a WCF run despite an obviously limited roster cause... he put his hands in his pockets.

I'm pretty sure JJ isn't the next Phil or Riley or anything like that, but I know for certain that this Lakers roster isn't the '91 Bulls by a long shot.

[SkyBill40]

This is swinging the pendulum all the way to the other side lol. The coach does have impact on outcomes, it's in no way zero percent. The problem isn't whether coaches having impact on outcomes, it is people who think coaches have the majority impact on outcomes.

Coaches set up your offensive and defensive system, they give the game plan for specific games, they are people managers, they manage rotations, they manage adjustments, these things have impact on games, especially when many games are won or lost on small margins. But a coach can't make an average to below average roster great. Coaches can elevate a roster about one level above their ability or limit them about one level below their ability, but that's the extent of it. A meh coach won't make a contending roster non contending, and a great coach won't make a bottom lottery team a playoff team.

I value your opinion in the same measure as I hope you value mine. I stand on this mere fact: When is the last time a coach made a basket? He can draw up a play, outline a scheme, or assess the opponent... but those are the limits of what can be done and all that is moot if the players fail to execute.

Sent from my SM-F936U using RealGM mobile app

I suppose it depends on what you mean, because your statements are possibly contradictory, or possibly not.

Maybe you're saying that the coach has no impact on the outcomes of the plays themselves once you get on the court, and all he can do it set things up, and that is true.

If you're saying that coaches have no impact on the outcome of teams in general, then you're contradicting your own statement by saying all he does is ____ and then listing things that can affect the outcome of the game.

Of course the coach can't directly do anything on the court and is limited to only preparation, who is put on the court and managing things, but that's kind of obvious already.

Your second paragraph is my viewpoint.

Sent from my SM-F936U using RealGM mobile app

[SlimShady83]

LOL I love the two threads on the first page atm

1) This one "At what point do Lakers fans owe Darvin Ham an apology?
2) JJ will be In running for COY

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

[SK21209]

The discussion in this thread largely ignores the fact that the players hated Ham. They were taking not so subtle shots at him in postgame interviews all last season. So regardless of whether you think JJ is a significant improvement from Ham from a tactical and leadership perspective (which I do), the players had tuned out and given up on Ham. When that happens there’s no going back.

[Godymas]

It doesn’t even look like the players buy into JJ

LeGM really had his podcast buddy do a few wine sessions and thought he was good enough to coach this team.

Steve Nash 2.0

[sikma42]

Team looks like they’ve given up. JJ looks flabbergasted.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

[reddyplayerone]

The discussion in this thread largely ignores the fact that the players hated Ham. They were taking not so subtle shots at him in postgame interviews all last season. So regardless of whether you think JJ is a significant improvement from Ham from a tactical and leadership perspective (which I do), the players had tuned out and given up on Ham. When that happens there’s no going back.

Yeah but this says way more about the players than it does about Ham especially considering things are pretty much no different this year

They've run out of excuses

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

[sikma42]

The discussion in this thread largely ignores the fact that the players hated Ham. They were taking not so subtle shots at him in postgame interviews all last season. So regardless of whether you think JJ is a significant improvement from Ham from a tactical and leadership perspective (which I do), the players had tuned out and given up on Ham. When that happens there’s no going back.

Yeah but this says way more about the players than it does about Ham especially considering things are pretty much no different this year

They've run out of excuses

They look much worse than last year defensively. The record is only close bc they had an easy schedule (several teams missing best players or other weird situations).

This is a lottery team. Maybe 37/38 wins.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[CelticSooner]

Read on Twitter

[Revived]

Lakers lost 4 games by 20 pts or more all of last season.

Lakers already lost 5 games by more than 20 pts this season.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

Darvin Ham took this same exact Lakers team (worse actually considering they didn’t have Knecht) to the WCF Semi Finals and also won the In Season Cup btw.

[Edrees]

Lakers lost 4 games by 20 pts or more all of last season.

Lakers already lost 5 games by more than 20 pts this season.

If you trade this year's lebron for last year's youd probably switch that stat.

Read on Twitter

Darvin Ham took this same exact Lakers team (worse actually considering they didn’t have Knecht) to the WCF Semi Finals and also won the In Season Cup btw.

It's not the same Lakers team. Lebron has declined. That's the major difference. Also the Lakers had Taurean Prince last year who shot a good 3pt %.

[JayMKE]

Letting your star player pick your coach is never a good idea trust me

Ain’t nobody going to coach up the LeBron Lakers either, Phil not walking thru that door. Ham obviously wasn’t the source of the Lakers problems.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

[God Squad]

Read on Twitter

That's a typical Dlo play IMO.

[God Squad]

This Lakers roster has been doo-doo and flawed for a while. I don't care if their fans think otherwise.

[Revived]

Lakers lost 4 games by 20 pts or more all of last season.

Lakers already lost 5 games by more than 20 pts this season.

If you trade this year's lebron for last year's youd probably switch that stat.

Read on Twitter

Darvin Ham took this same exact Lakers team (worse actually considering they didn’t have Knecht) to the WCF Semi Finals and also won the In Season Cup btw.

It's not the same Lakers team. Lebron has declined. That's the major difference. Also the Lakers had Taurean Prince last year who shot a good 3pt %.

LeBron just dropped a 40 pt triple double. I think rumors of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

And lmao if Taurean Prince is the difference between the Lakers winning or losing games then yeah I’m sorry but that’s god damn hilarious. Not to mention Kinecht is already a far better 3pt shooter than Prince ever was in his entire career much less last season.

If Ham had a shooter and talent like Kinecht, I wonder the difference, even if slight, that would’ve made.