Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

[winforlose]

I brought up Jaden in another thread. First off, I absolutely concede that this trade does not help the longterm ceiling of the franchise, so I highly doubt it happens. But would it help the team's floor and bolster the team as a whole?

Jaden McDaniels ($23,017,242) for Terance Mann ($11,423,077) and Derrick Jones Jr. ($9,523,810)

Jones is shooting 18-35 (.514) from the corners in 2024-25 (which I'll admit is a big step forward for him after shooting 50-148 (.338) last season). And despite Mann shooting just 34.1% for the season on 3-pointers, he is 12-24 (.500) from the corners and was 43-110 (.391) last season in the corners.

Meanwhile, McDaniels is shooting 12-42 (.286) from the corners, in an offense that regularly creates these shot opportunities.

Getting worse overall to improve the short term situation of the team sounds like a terrible idea. Plus you have to cut Dozier or work him into the deal because we cannot be at 16. It also doesn’t add a backup C or backup PG. It’s like me trying to fix the Vikings by trading Jordan Addison for a punt returner. Makes no sense in the short or long term.

[Norseman79]

It feels like this needs to be true....SG Edwards, SF McDaniels, PF Reid...we know Gobert is here for the season at least.

According to people here DD isn't going anywhere. Conley also seems safe. Dilly won't be traded as TC just moved up to get him. I still think we need to get a starting PG.

So realistically we have NAW and Randle to move to get a starting PG and backup C.

Assuming

PG ???, Conley, Dilly
SG Edwards, DD
SF McDaniels, Minott
PF Reid, Miller
C. Rudy, ???

I have brought up attainable starting PGs (Poole, Simons, Anthony, Mitchell) but many didn't like the moves... What exactly are you people expecting to get? Not don't get me wrong, I don't like some of the players, but is there any sense of reality for what we're going to get in a return?

[winforlose]

It feels like this needs to be true....SG Edwards, SF McDaniels, PF Reid...we know Gobert is here for the season at least.

According to people here DD isn't going anywhere. Conley also seems safe. Dilly won't be traded as TC just moved up to get him. I still think we need to get a starting PG.

So realistically we have NAW and Randle to move to get a starting PG and backup C.

Assuming

PG ???, Conley, Dilly
SG Edwards, DD
SF McDaniels, Minott
PF Reid, Miller
C. Rudy, ???

I have brought up attainable starting PGs (Poole, Simons, Anthony, Mitchell) but many didn't like the moves... What exactly are you people expecting to get? Not don't get me wrong, I don't like some of the players, but is there any sense of reality for what we're going to get in a return?

Here is my counter based on a discussion in the trade board. Coby white can be had for 2 firsts. So send Randle to a 3rd team, send Miller and the Detroit 1st to Chicago, the Bulls send us Coby White and Nikola Vucevic, Randle gets the Bulls the rest of their asking price.

We gain a solid backup C who allows Rudy to move to PF on defense and C on offense, who can also play with Naz. White and Ant would be a great back court, and next year Dilly begins to work his way up to backup PG replacing the aging Mike. Mike leaves the year after and Dilly and White spilt the PG role going forward. It also moves NAW and DDV permanently to SG/SF roles which improves both their games.

Edit to add: my eye test of the math says Vuc and White make less than Randle so no aggregation is taking place. Also, trading Karl for Coby White, DDV, and Vuc would be seen as a win for TC.

Later edit to add: maybe you get lucky and you can also dump PJ Dozier in the deal and that opens up a roster spot to sign the best PF that gets waived during trade season. Meanwhile your big rotation is Naz and Rudy starting with Vuc as the backup to both, and Luka as emergency depth. There might even be a standout PF in the G who can you recruit if they are not yet under a 2 way deal.

[cmoss84]

It feels like this needs to be true....SG Edwards, SF McDaniels, PF Reid...we know Gobert is here for the season at least.

According to people here DD isn't going anywhere. Conley also seems safe. Dilly won't be traded as TC just moved up to get him. I still think we need to get a starting PG.

So realistically we have NAW and Randle to move to get a starting PG and backup C.

Assuming

PG ???, Conley, Dilly
SG Edwards, DD
SF McDaniels, Minott
PF Reid, Miller
C. Rudy, ???

I have brought up attainable starting PGs (Poole, Simons, Anthony, Mitchell) but many didn't like the moves... What exactly are you people expecting to get? Not don't get me wrong, I don't like some of the players, but is there any sense of reality for what we're going to get in a return?

I've been messing around on the spotrac trade machine with a trade revolving around Lonzo Ball and Mark Williams. Very close, but will probably need a third team.

[shrink]

For those that were expecting massive returns in a Towns trade, I just wanted to point out that for a guy we all believe is a #2 guy, his long, supermax deal was probably pretty risky to many GMs. This was written by Keith Smith in March:

https://www.spotrac.com/news/_/id/2230/nbas-10-worst-value-contracts

9. KARL-ANTHONY TOWNS – MINNESOTA TIMBERWOLVES
Five years, $257 million (player option in 2027-28) (includes four-year, $221 million extension)

The last two contracts on this list are extensions that don’t seem likely to age very well. Towns is still a terrific offensive weapon, but it’s never been clearer that he can’t anchor the defense for a contender. That means he has to play power forward, and Towns isn’t the same matchup nightmare there as he is as center. In addition, this season is the second in a row where Towns has missed considerable time with a leg injury. Last season it was a calf injury, this year it’s a torn meniscus. That’s worrisome for a guy who hasn’t even started his $221 million long-term extension yet.

Now personally, I’m not as low on max deals for non-superstars as many out there. However, I think the risk involved in KAT’s contract, and the new, stricter apron rules probably removes a lot of his trade value.

- Randle at $33 mil is a positive asset. If he expires, MIN can use the savings, if he picks up his option for $31, still positive
- DiVincenzo at $36 mil for 3 years is a very positive asset
- The protected DET 1st is a positive asset too, whether it conveys as a rookie or we use it as a trade asset.

I will always be a Towns fan, but I do not think this trade was an unreasonably low return.

[Norseman79]

It feels like this needs to be true....SG Edwards, SF McDaniels, PF Reid...we know Gobert is here for the season at least.

According to people here DD isn't going anywhere. Conley also seems safe. Dilly won't be traded as TC just moved up to get him. I still think we need to get a starting PG.

So realistically we have NAW and Randle to move to get a starting PG and backup C.

Assuming

PG ???, Conley, Dilly
SG Edwards, DD
SF McDaniels, Minott
PF Reid, Miller
C. Rudy, ???

I have brought up attainable starting PGs (Poole, Simons, Anthony, Mitchell) but many didn't like the moves... What exactly are you people expecting to get? Not don't get me wrong, I don't like some of the players, but is there any sense of reality for what we're going to get in a return?

Here is my counter based on a discussion in the trade board. Coby white can be had for 2 firsts. So send Randle to a 3rd team, send Miller and the Detroit 1st to Chicago, the Bulls send us Coby White and Nikola Vucevic, Randle gets the Bulls the rest of their asking price.

We gain a solid backup C who allows Rudy to move to PF on defense and C on offense, who can also play with Naz. White and Ant would be a great back court, and next year Dilly begins to work his way up to backup PG replacing the aging Mike. Mike leaves the year after and Dilly and White spilt the PG role going forward. It also moves NAW and DDV permanently to SG/SF roles which improves both their games.

Edit to add: my eye test of the math says Vuc and White make less than Randle so no aggregation is taking place. Also, trading Karl for Coby White, DDV, and Vuc would be seen as a win for TC.

Later edit to add: maybe you get lucky and you can also dump PJ Dozier in the deal and that opens up a roster spot to sign the best PF that gets waived during trade season. Meanwhile your big rotation is Naz and Rudy starting with Vuc as the backup to both, and Luka as emergency depth. There might even be a standout PF in the G who can you recruit if they are not yet under a 2 way deal.

I don't like NAW or DD as SF's, too small. Also, if we can get 1rsts for Randle, why not keep them for ourselves? We need them. Also, I am not a White fan, nor a Vuc fan, though they do fill needs. Does White have a player option next year? If so, he is about to be spendy too. Also, turning the ball over at a higher clip this year 2.5. As far as Vuc, does he really offer any type of rim protection/defense? I thought he was pretty much just a slightly heavier Garza?

Finally, if both White and Vuc have two years left, won't that stop us from resigning Reid as we would need to next summer?

Not the worst idea, I dislike the players, but I can see the vision

[Norseman79]

Here is a fun one....

Min out: Randle, Dillingham
In: Murray and fill

Pelicans out: Murray and fill
In: Randle and Dillingham

Pels hit reset and unload to build, Ingram and others to follow. Dillingham gives them rookie PG to pair with Hawkins, Murphy, Zion and Missi...plus a ton of cap space once Randle walks.

Wolves...backcourt set.

PG Murray, Conley
SG Ant, DD, NAW
SF McDaniels, Minott
PF Reid, Miller
C. Rudy, fill from N.O.

Time in off-season to create space to sign Naz

[younggunsmn]

I think the increasing likelihood of Julius Randle picking up his player option for next year is going to pretty much kill our ability to trade him, at least for anything we would want to take back.

There just don't seem to be any suitors with raw cap space out there for him, and unless he turns it around and makes an All-Star game or something, I see him opting in and being very unhappy ala James Harden a couple years ago.

Which might also price us out of the Naz Reid market.
The awful KAT trade that just keeps giving.

[Norseman79]

I think the increasing likelihood of Julius Randle picking up his player option for next year is going to pretty much kill our ability to trade him, at least for anything we would want to take back.

There just don't seem to be any suitors with raw cap space out there for him, and unless he turns it around and makes an All-Star game or something, I see him opting in and being very unhappy ala James Harden a couple years ago.

Which might also price us out of the Naz Reid market.
The awful KAT trade that just keeps giving.

Honestly, this is why I am fine moving him for somebody like Jordan poole. Both technically would be horrible contracts, but at least one fits our roster better.

[cmoss84]

This is what happens when you get too high:
(from Spotrac's trade machine)

MN in: Scottie Barnes, Ochai Agbaji, Walker Kessler, and Bryce Sensabaugh
MN out: Randle, DD, NAW, and Miller
under 1st apron

Toronto in: Randle, NAW, Miller, K. George, I. Collier, and 2 FRPs via Utah
Toronto out: Barnes, Boucher, Mitchell, and Dick
1st apron hard-capped

Jazz in: DD, Boucher, Mitchell, and Dick
Jazz out: K. George, I. Collier, Kessler, Sensabaugh, and 2 FRPs
under 1st apron

[minimus]

Read on Twitter

Randle, Dozier (separate trade) for Marcus Smart, Aldama, Koncar (waive)

DET IN: John Koncar, two MEM SRP
DET OUT: none

MEM IN: Julius Randle, PJ Dozier, DET FRP
MEM OUT: Marcus Smart, Aldama, Koncar, two MEM SRP
Why for MEM: get some assets

MIN IN: Marcus Smart, Aldama
MIN OUT: Julius Randle, Dozier, DET FRP

Gobert/Reid/Garza
Reid/Aldama/Minott/Miller
MCD/MInott/TJ/Ingles
Edwards/NAW/DDV + Clark
Smart/Conley/Dillingham + Nix

[Guidus88]

It feels like this needs to be true....SG Edwards, SF McDaniels, PF Reid...we know Gobert is here for the season at least.

According to people here DD isn't going anywhere. Conley also seems safe. Dilly won't be traded as TC just moved up to get him. I still think we need to get a starting PG.

So realistically we have NAW and Randle to move to get a starting PG and backup C.

Assuming

PG ???, Conley, Dilly
SG Edwards, DD
SF McDaniels, Minott
PF Reid, Miller
C. Rudy, ???

I have brought up attainable starting PGs (Poole, Simons, Anthony, Mitchell) but many didn't like the moves... What exactly are you people expecting to get? Not don't get me wrong, I don't like some of the players, but is there any sense of reality for what we're going to get in a return?

I proposed this few days ago

MIN - WAS trade (After Dec 15th):

MIN out: Randle
MIN in: Brogdon - Valanciunas

[Norseman79]

It feels like this needs to be true....SG Edwards, SF McDaniels, PF Reid...we know Gobert is here for the season at least.

According to people here DD isn't going anywhere. Conley also seems safe. Dilly won't be traded as TC just moved up to get him. I still think we need to get a starting PG.

So realistically we have NAW and Randle to move to get a starting PG and backup C.

Assuming

PG ???, Conley, Dilly
SG Edwards, DD
SF McDaniels, Minott
PF Reid, Miller
C. Rudy, ???

I have brought up attainable starting PGs (Poole, Simons, Anthony, Mitchell) but many didn't like the moves... What exactly are you people expecting to get? Not don't get me wrong, I don't like some of the players, but is there any sense of reality for what we're going to get in a return?

I proposed this few days ago

MIN - WAS trade (After Dec 15th):

MIN out: Randle
MIN in: Brogdon - Valanciunas

Why do they give up Brogdon?

[Guidus88]

It feels like this needs to be true....SG Edwards, SF McDaniels, PF Reid...we know Gobert is here for the season at least.

According to people here DD isn't going anywhere. Conley also seems safe. Dilly won't be traded as TC just moved up to get him. I still think we need to get a starting PG.

So realistically we have NAW and Randle to move to get a starting PG and backup C.

Assuming

PG ???, Conley, Dilly
SG Edwards, DD
SF McDaniels, Minott
PF Reid, Miller
C. Rudy, ???

I have brought up attainable starting PGs (Poole, Simons, Anthony, Mitchell) but many didn't like the moves... What exactly are you people expecting to get? Not don't get me wrong, I don't like some of the players, but is there any sense of reality for what we're going to get in a return?

I proposed this few days ago

MIN - WAS trade (After Dec 15th):

MIN out: Randle
MIN in: Brogdon - Valanciunas

Why do they give up Brogdon?

he is expiring at the end of the season

[Norseman79]

I proposed this few days ago

MIN - WAS trade (After Dec 15th):

MIN out: Randle
MIN in: Brogdon - Valanciunas

Why do they give up Brogdon?

he is expiring at the end of the season

So is Randle, but Randle has a player option which could hook them. They want to reset. If Randle was a slam dunk done, then I could see it. But with them looking to clear cap, not sure. That's why I think Poole is the easier get, may even be able to get a pick back

[Guidus88]

Why do they give up Brogdon?

he is expiring at the end of the season

So is Randle, but Randle has a player option which could hook them. They want to reset. If Randle was a slam dunk done, then I could see it. But with them looking to clear cap, not sure. That's why I think Poole is the easier get, may even be able to get a pick back

I get your point, probably I'd through some draft capital (2nd) to make it happens

I don't think Poole is the solution

[Norseman79]

he is expiring at the end of the season

So is Randle, but Randle has a player option which could hook them. They want to reset. If Randle was a slam dunk done, then I could see it. But with them looking to clear cap, not sure. That's why I think Poole is the easier get, may even be able to get a pick back

I get your point, probably I'd through some draft capital (2nd) to make it happens

I don't think Poole is the solution

Solution? Not at all. Just more likely the type of return in my opinion. Unless we just get bench guys

[frankenwolf]

It feels like this needs to be true....SG Edwards, SF McDaniels, PF Reid...we know Gobert is here for the season at least.

According to people here DD isn't going anywhere. Conley also seems safe. Dilly won't be traded as TC just moved up to get him. I still think we need to get a starting PG.

So realistically we have NAW and Randle to move to get a starting PG and backup C.

Assuming

PG ???, Conley, Dilly
SG Edwards, DD
SF McDaniels, Minott
PF Reid, Miller
C. Rudy, ???

I have brought up attainable starting PGs (Poole, Simons, Anthony, Mitchell) but many didn't like the moves... What exactly are you people expecting to get? Not don't get me wrong, I don't like some of the players, but is there any sense of reality for what we're going to get in a return?

Here is my counter based on a discussion in the trade board. Coby white can be had for 2 firsts. So send Randle to a 3rd team, send Miller and the Detroit 1st to Chicago, the Bulls send us Coby White and Nikola Vucevic, Randle gets the Bulls the rest of their asking price.

We gain a solid backup C who allows Rudy to move to PF on defense and C on offense, who can also play with Naz. White and Ant would be a great back court, and next year Dilly begins to work his way up to backup PG replacing the aging Mike. Mike leaves the year after and Dilly and White spilt the PG role going forward. It also moves NAW and DDV permanently to SG/SF roles which improves both their games.

Edit to add: my eye test of the math says Vuc and White make less than Randle so no aggregation is taking place. Also, trading Karl for Coby White, DDV, and Vuc would be seen as a win for TC.

Later edit to add: maybe you get lucky and you can also dump PJ Dozier in the deal and that opens up a roster spot to sign the best PF that gets waived during trade season. Meanwhile your big rotation is Naz and Rudy starting with Vuc as the backup to both, and Luka as emergency depth. There might even be a standout PF in the G who can you recruit if they are not yet under a 2 way deal.

You are right, I didn't like a number of your previous ideas, but this Chicago one I can get behind, but do you have any ideas on who the third team could be? Would it be Charlotte or Toronto? Thanks W4L

[winforlose]

It feels like this needs to be true....SG Edwards, SF McDaniels, PF Reid...we know Gobert is here for the season at least.

According to people here DD isn't going anywhere. Conley also seems safe. Dilly won't be traded as TC just moved up to get him. I still think we need to get a starting PG.

So realistically we have NAW and Randle to move to get a starting PG and backup C.

Assuming

PG ???, Conley, Dilly
SG Edwards, DD
SF McDaniels, Minott
PF Reid, Miller
C. Rudy, ???

I have brought up attainable starting PGs (Poole, Simons, Anthony, Mitchell) but many didn't like the moves... What exactly are you people expecting to get? Not don't get me wrong, I don't like some of the players, but is there any sense of reality for what we're going to get in a return?

Here is my counter based on a discussion in the trade board. Coby white can be had for 2 firsts. So send Randle to a 3rd team, send Miller and the Detroit 1st to Chicago, the Bulls send us Coby White and Nikola Vucevic, Randle gets the Bulls the rest of their asking price.

We gain a solid backup C who allows Rudy to move to PF on defense and C on offense, who can also play with Naz. White and Ant would be a great back court, and next year Dilly begins to work his way up to backup PG replacing the aging Mike. Mike leaves the year after and Dilly and White spilt the PG role going forward. It also moves NAW and DDV permanently to SG/SF roles which improves both their games.

Edit to add: my eye test of the math says Vuc and White make less than Randle so no aggregation is taking place. Also, trading Karl for Coby White, DDV, and Vuc would be seen as a win for TC.

Later edit to add: maybe you get lucky and you can also dump PJ Dozier in the deal and that opens up a roster spot to sign the best PF that gets waived during trade season. Meanwhile your big rotation is Naz and Rudy starting with Vuc as the backup to both, and Luka as emergency depth. There might even be a standout PF in the G who can you recruit if they are not yet under a 2 way deal.

You are right, I didn't like a number of your previous ideas, but this Chicago one I can get behind, but do you have any ideas on who the third team could be? Would it be Charlotte or Toronto? Thanks W4L

Not really. That is more between Chicago and whoever wants Randle. I think of it like we give the value of Randle to Chicago to go out and get what they can for him. Perhaps they want a young player instead of a protected first. Or perhaps they can get a protected first and a couple of 2nds. I just don’t know the open market value of Randle when talent isn’t required on the back end.

[dschroeder01]

Reading through this thread is wild. Actual discussions on trading for Jordan Poole. Trades that are impossible or practically impossible with the Wolves in the 2nd apron. The rosiest of rose colored glasses on who KAT was and is as a player. Connelly is bad now. Our pets heads are falling off.