Free Agent, Trade & Extensions Thread, 2024-25 (i.e. How do we make the Champs even better?)

[phincsfan]

I think if they attach the Washington 2nd to Springer its to bring back a young guy on a rookie deal they like who they think can actually play. If they use the potential #31 pick to just dump a guy that move should be VERY harshly criticized.

Exactly.

First, the #31 pick is highly valuable because contracts for guys picked second round are more team friendly than late first. Over the four years a pick #30 makes $13 million and a #31 pick makes $8.5 million. So #31 can be seen as MORE valuable than a late first to luxury tax teams.

Springer has only one year & $4 million dollars left. The #31 pick would be a high price to move off so little in yrs/money. But our Front Office JUST paid a mid-second to acquire him like nine months ago, now we pay again to dump him. So it’d be crazy bad, dumb costly round trip for no production from Springer.

People are saying 2025 will be the deepest draft since 2018, and that also makes #31 really valuable. In 2018 Jalen Brunson, Mitch Robinson, Gary Trent, Bruce Brown, etc all went early 2nd round… you can’t just give away a pick that good to dump Jaden Springer, for crying out loud.

The NIL will make make the drafts deeper going forward IMO. When the NIL starts paying international players that will also make the drafts deeper. I think you'll get the typical high school 1 and done phenom but kids will stay in school a little longer and develop more. So many of these kids come out when they're 18/19 even 20 so damn weak and they get pushed around and it slows down they're development.


That Wizard 2nd will definitely cause Brad to get lots of calls around draft day.

[phincsfan]

I think if they attach the Washington 2nd to Springer its to bring back a young guy on a rookie deal they like who they think can actually play. If they use the potential #31 pick to just dump a guy that move should be VERY harshly criticized.

Exactly.

First, the #31 pick is highly valuable because contracts for guys picked second round are more team friendly than late first. Over the four years a pick #30 makes $13 million and a #31 pick makes $8.5 million. So #31 can be seen as MORE valuable than a late first to luxury tax teams.

Springer has only one year & $4 million dollars left. The #31 pick would be a high price to move off so little in yrs/money. But our Front Office JUST paid a mid-second to acquire him like nine months ago, now we pay again to dump him. So it’d be crazy bad, dumb costly round trip for no production from Springer.

People are saying 2025 will be the deepest draft since 2018, and that also makes #31 really valuable. In 2018 Jalen Brunson, Mitch Robinson, Gary Trent, Bruce Brown, etc all went early 2nd round… you can’t just give away a pick that good to dump Jaden Springer, for crying out loud.

The NIL will make make the drafts deeper going forward IMO. When the NIL starts paying international players that will also make the drafts deeper (they may be paying them now, I don't know).

I think you'll get the typical high school 1 and done phenom but kids will stay in school a little longer and develop more. So many of these kids come out when they're 18/19 even 20 so damn weak and they get pushed around and it slows down they're development.


That Wizard 2nd will definitely cause Brad to get lots of calls around draft day.

[Hal14]

Luka Garza would be an interesting addition. Minny seems to have buried him on the depth chart. 6'11, 25 and not a terrible 3pt shooter.

Would Minny want Maine points leader JD to back-up Conley??

You pretty much never see guys get traded who are on a 2-way contract.

And I don't see the appeal of trading for Garza, who would be what, the 6th big on our depth chart?

[Hal14]

Trading away what seems likely to be the #31 pick in the 2025 draft just so you can move off a little salary would be a pretty cheap move on ownership's part. The c's don't have an empty cupboard draft asset wise moving forward, but they are down quite a few seconds and that first in 2029.

It would also be short-sited. You could draft a early second rounder and maybe develop him which may save you a lot more money in the long run if that player hits or spin that draft pick into a future pick you could use to help dump a bigger salary in the future. Given that your tax rate will be MUCH higher in the future due to the repeater tax it makes more sense to save your assets for salary dumps in those years (if necessary).

I think if they attach the Washington 2nd to Springer its to bring back a young guy on a rookie deal they like who they think can actually play. If they use the potential #31 pick to just dump a guy that move should be VERY harshly criticized.

Good points and this is probably about 90% of the reason why Springer hasn't been traded yet..why the reports said Brad shopped him in trade talks at end of preseason, but a deal didn't get done because other teams wanted draft capital but Brad didn't want to give up draft capital.

The other 10% might be that Brad still sees something in Springer and doesn't want to just give him away for nothing (let alone attach draft capital to dump him). I think there's a chance Brad (and perhaps others in the org like Cassell) still see something in him.

Keep in mind it was just a few months ago that Brad traded for him, Brad said lots of positive things about Springer when we traded for him, said he had his eye on him and liked him since before the 2021 draft when he was a 1st round pick.

And keep in mind, while Springer hasn't really contributed in non-garbage time for Boston yet, he did contribute in meaningful mins for Philly, prior to getting traded here. And perhaps Brad thinks that given a little more time to develop, he could help us.

Afterall, if we take the 17 guys on our team right now (14 roster spots and the 3 2-way guys) and we rank those 17 guys by age and by amount of experience with the Celtics, Springer is 15th out of 17 players in both categories...and he's the only player in the bottom 3 in both categories. So it might not be so wise to give up on him quite yet..with some more development, we could have something here..

[redslastlaugh]

I think Brad still looks at the draft more as a coach than as a GM. A coach is always looking for players right now to win tonight’s game whereas the GM is looking at what the player might be in 3-4 years..

Brad Stevens has picked five guys in the draft: Juhann Begarin, JD Davison, Jordan Walsh, Baylor Scheierman and Anton Watson. 60% of those were projects so I'm not sure the evidence supports your claim he picks win now players in the draft.

Yea, that’s true. I look at it more like Juhann and JD were swings that Brad wasn’t going to allocate a roster spot for, so why not take a big swing. Walsh was the first roster player Brad drafted and now Scheierman that has a roster spot on an NBA contract.

I look at Brad doesn’t fill out spots 11,12,13,14, etc. on the roster with draft selections because, I think he thinks more like a coach. 80% of guys picked in the 20s, 30s, 40s, & 50s aren’t really gonna sustainably help a coach win. Twenty percent of such players will hit, but why invest heavily if those are the odds.

Danny, by contrast, would have 2 or 3 late picks on the roster every year, from every draft. I think 2019-20 Danny had seven rookies on the roster but that included Wanamaker and Javonte Green who weren’t his draft picks. Probably this caused endless frustration for Brad because he was a coach trying to win and he had so many Jabari Bird, Marcus Thornton, Tremont Water, Carsten Edwards, Jordan Mickey, etc on the roster… Brad probably hated having late first and second picks on the team when he coached because none of those guys could play — and if you look at where they were drafted why’d anyone expect they could play.

Before Rob and Payton, whose play more so benefitted Coach Udoka and Coach Mazzulla, none of Danny’s picks after #25 ever benefitted Brad when he was making his rep as an NBA coach. If Danny had drafted better late, maybe he’d taken Jeremy Grant, Alex Caruso, FVV and Zubac in the second round among the Ben Bentils and Colton Iverson-type flotsam, maybe Brad would view the draft differently.

So I just think Brads experience coaching non-lottery picks his first five years still affects his views now as GM

[redslastlaugh]

I think Brad still looks at the draft more as a coach than as a GM. A coach is always looking for players right now to win tonight’s game whereas the GM is looking at what the player might be in 3-4 years.

When you’re picking at #30, it’s hard to get a player for sure who is RIGHT NOW with NBA plus shooting, plus size, plus defense and plus athleticism because the prospects with all that were already taken off the board before pick 30. So Brad flipped our previous 1sts for Jrue, Brogdon, Derrick and Horford, and those are four surefire NBA players. But when you have no productive players on a rookie scale contract, all your rotation players are making $10-60 million bucks/year each … and that’s why we have such a luxury tax problem and like OKC, for instance, does not ie, OKC has like six guys on their books still making rookie scale.

And this is not a criticism of Brads past work as he brought a legit great team to Boston and raised banner #18 … and the new CBA was just somewhat thrust on all front offices with little warning in 2023… but it’d be a nice if Brad can hit on some picks in the next couple of drafts, or that Baylor and Anton work out as rotation players. Like if Baylor Scheierman has Joe Ingles career and Anton Watson has Boris Diaw’s career we are completely set, that’s for sure, because we’ll have them for four years on rookie deals.

Brad Stevens has picked five guys in the draft: Juhann Begarin, JD Davison, Jordan Walsh, Baylor Scheierman and Anton Watson. 60% of those were projects so I'm not sure the evidence supports your claim he picks win now players in the draft.

Trading a first round pick for 5 2nd round picks (or however many that was) can also be classified as NOT picking a win-now player.

Picking Jordan Walsh and signing him to a four year deal definitely counts as NOT picking a win now player.

But trading back for four seconds is so you can use them at the trade deadline for NBA players of known quantity. Brad didn’t trade back thinking, “sweet, now I can draft five dudes in the second round.” He traded back for ammo to go get players he thought could help the team

[ConstableGeneva]

Brad Stevens has picked five guys in the draft: Juhann Begarin, JD Davison, Jordan Walsh, Baylor Scheierman and Anton Watson. 60% of those were projects so I'm not sure the evidence supports your claim he picks win now players in the draft.

Trading a first round pick for 5 2nd round picks (or however many that was) can also be classified as NOT picking a win-now player.

Picking Jordan Walsh and signing him to a four year deal definitely counts as NOT picking a win now player.

But trading back for four seconds is so you can use them at the trade deadline for NBA players of known quantity. Brad didn’t trade back thinking, “sweet, now I can draft five dudes in the second round.” He traded back for ammo to go get players he thought could help the team

The second round picks can be used any number of ways. They did it for flexibility. They just used a 2nd rounder for Springer, who isn't a win-now player.

[redslastlaugh]

For sure, Springer, compared to Mike Muscala and Xavier Tillman, really is NOT a win-now player, so that’s the counter example, lol.

[ConstableGeneva]

For sure, Springer, compared to Mike Muscala and Xavier Tillman, really is NOT a win-now player, so that’s the counter example, lol.

He was supposed to be a midterm project. Change in ownership likely changes their intention for him.

[phincsfan]

Luka Garza would be an interesting addition. Minny seems to have buried him on the depth chart. 6'11, 25 and not a terrible 3pt shooter.

Would Minny want Maine points leader JD to back-up Conley??

You pretty much never see guys get traded who are on a 2-way contract.

And I don't see the appeal of trading for Garza, who would be what, the 6th big on our depth chart?

Thinking about it more for next year. Xman can get moved, Luke is a FA. Joe’s double big experiment seems to be working out well.

[Parliament10]

Trading a first round pick for 5 2nd round picks (or however many that was) can also be classified as NOT picking a win-now player.

Picking Jordan Walsh and signing him to a four year deal definitely counts as NOT picking a win now player.

But trading back for four seconds is so you can use them at the trade deadline for NBA players of known quantity. Brad didn’t trade back thinking, “sweet, now I can draft five dudes in the second round.” He traded back for ammo to go get players he thought could help the team

The second round picks can be used any number of ways. They did it for flexibility. They just used a 2nd rounder for Springer, who isn't a win-now player.

Agreed. The 2nd-Rounders are like money, more liquid assets.
Brad is doing pretty good, with those 2nd-rounders, too. I don't see him trading up, unless someone really catches his eye.

[ConstableGeneva]

Somehow missed this from Bobby Marks. Apologies if posted already.



Interesting that the guys not eligible to be traded are the guys I would build around hehe.

[playa-hater]

It appears that J Walsh, Scheierman, Peterson and Springer, who barely get minutes, even in November and December, will be a part of any playoff rotation. Which is Fine if everyone is healthy. But seeing Hauser go down and out and not having anyone at his position to fill in with, may be our downfall. Not just Hauser. But any of our Guards/wings. If just one is injured between Jrue, White, Brown, PP, it can spell real trouble. What our current rotation would be is insert Al in the starting lineup (with KP Of course) leaving only PP coming off the bench at any position not a center?

Boston really has to find someone at the guard/wing position that Joe will actually play. I know the choices are limited, but I fear something needs to be done. Or pray no one gets injured at all.

[ThePigeon]

It appears that J Walsh, Scheierman, Peterson and Springer, who barely get minutes, even in November and December, will be a part of any playoff rotation. Which is Fine if everyone is healthy. But seeing Hauser go down and out and not having anyone at his position to fill in with, may be our downfall. Not just Hauser. But any of our Guards/wings. If just one is injured between Jrue, White, Brown, PP, it can spell real trouble. What our current rotation would be is insert Al in the starting lineup (with KP Of course) leaving only PP coming off the bench at any position not a center?

Boston really has to find someone at the guard/wing position that Joe will actually play. I know the choices are limited, but I fear something needs to be done. Or pray no one gets injured at all.

True
Hauser gets down and we see a Kornet - Queta pairing
Lonnie Walker here we come
Also Jaylen Hoard is playing awesome in Europe (Hoarding the Jays)

[cl2117]

It appears that J Walsh, Scheierman, Peterson and Springer, who barely get minutes, even in November and December, will be a part of any playoff rotation. Which is Fine if everyone is healthy. But seeing Hauser go down and out and not having anyone at his position to fill in with, may be our downfall. Not just Hauser. But any of our Guards/wings. If just one is injured between Jrue, White, Brown, PP, it can spell real trouble. What our current rotation would be is insert Al in the starting lineup (with KP Of course) leaving only PP coming off the bench at any position not a center?

Boston really has to find someone at the guard/wing position that Joe will actually play. I know the choices are limited, but I fear something needs to be done. Or pray no one gets injured at all.

I don't think we've got a massive issue backfilling for a guard/wing injury for a playoff rotation. More than one and we're going to struggle, but that's gotta be the case for every team. We can still have our top 7 cover like 95% of the minutes and then you're just plugging 15 or so minutes with the likes of Kornet/Queta/ Tillman or even Walsh/Scheierman depending on the match-up. Brown is the lynchpin. If a guard goes down then he steps in and plays more SG, if Hauser goes down then he steps into SF minutes.

Really not the end of the world thanks to Horford being able to guard the 4 and stretch the floor. He can be out there with KP but also Kornet/Queta. Plus we've got 3 competent ball handlers (Jrue/ White/ PP) and utlimately only need 2 to fill out 48 minutes. There's enough mixing and matching available to cover our bases without having a lot of rotations with awkward pairings.

I think Walsh / Scheierman / Peterson are going to get their chances at some stage (probably not Springer, but still a chance). I don't think you can entirely write them off as not being able to be part of the rotation this year. The point is though that we don't need any of them really to, unless we're down 2 out of our top 8, which, fingers crossed, we can avoid.

[Larry_Russell]

I think we should just trade KP and Brown for Giannis and Jackson Jr.

[Celts17Pride]

I think we should just trade KP and Brown for Giannis and Jackson Jr.

Celtics can't combine salaries.

[Larry_Russell]

I think we should just trade KP and Brown for Giannis and Jackson Jr.

Celtics can't combine salaries.

Giannis and Jackson Jr dont play on the same team. So even though it is imaginary, I believe it is doable.

Brown to Bucks for Giannis
KP to Memphis for Jackson Jr

[playa-hater]

It appears that J Walsh, Scheierman, Peterson and Springer, who barely get minutes, even in November and December, will be a part of any playoff rotation. Which is Fine if everyone is healthy. But seeing Hauser go down and out and not having anyone at his position to fill in with, may be our downfall. Not just Hauser. But any of our Guards/wings. If just one is injured between Jrue, White, Brown, PP, it can spell real trouble. What our current rotation would be is insert Al in the starting lineup (with KP Of course) leaving only PP coming off the bench at any position not a center?

Boston really has to find someone at the guard/wing position that Joe will actually play. I know the choices are limited, but I fear something needs to be done. Or pray no one gets injured at all.

I don't think we've got a massive issue backfilling for a guard/wing injury for a playoff rotation. More than one and we're going to struggle, but that's gotta be the case for every team. We can still have our top 7 cover like 95% of the minutes and then you're just plugging 15 or so minutes with the likes of Kornet/Queta/ Tillman or even Walsh/Scheierman depending on the match-up. Brown is the lynchpin. If a guard goes down then he steps in and plays more SG, if Hauser goes down then he steps into SF minutes.

Really not the end of the world thanks to Horford being able to guard the 4 and stretch the floor. He can be out there with KP but also Kornet/Queta. Plus we've got 3 competent ball handlers (Jrue/ White/ PP) and utlimately only need 2 to fill out 48 minutes. There's enough mixing and matching available to cover our bases without having a lot of rotations with awkward pairings.

I think Walsh / Scheierman / Peterson are going to get their chances at some stage (probably not Springer, but still a chance). I don't think you can entirely write them off as not being able to be part of the rotation this year. The point is though that we don't need any of them really to, unless we're down 2 out of our top 8, which, fingers crossed, we can avoid.

We are so very close to winning again (favorites?) The Margin of winning or losing may be a game or 2. Since most/all of our draft picks coming up we own (not sure many top-level contenders do) ..All I am saying is Boston should at least make a strong consideration for it. Although I concede again, it may be very difficult to find a player who would be a definite upgrade over BS/Walsh/Peterson while fitting in financial.

Edit.. Or start playing either Walsh or Peterson every single game to get them ready. playing a few minutes every 3 games or so is going to have them ready for significant emergency minutes come playoffs.

[cl2117]

It appears that J Walsh, Scheierman, Peterson and Springer, who barely get minutes, even in November and December, will be a part of any playoff rotation. Which is Fine if everyone is healthy. But seeing Hauser go down and out and not having anyone at his position to fill in with, may be our downfall. Not just Hauser. But any of our Guards/wings. If just one is injured between Jrue, White, Brown, PP, it can spell real trouble. What our current rotation would be is insert Al in the starting lineup (with KP Of course) leaving only PP coming off the bench at any position not a center?

Boston really has to find someone at the guard/wing position that Joe will actually play. I know the choices are limited, but I fear something needs to be done. Or pray no one gets injured at all.

I don't think we've got a massive issue backfilling for a guard/wing injury for a playoff rotation. More than one and we're going to struggle, but that's gotta be the case for every team. We can still have our top 7 cover like 95% of the minutes and then you're just plugging 15 or so minutes with the likes of Kornet/Queta/ Tillman or even Walsh/Scheierman depending on the match-up. Brown is the lynchpin. If a guard goes down then he steps in and plays more SG, if Hauser goes down then he steps into SF minutes.

Really not the end of the world thanks to Horford being able to guard the 4 and stretch the floor. He can be out there with KP but also Kornet/Queta. Plus we've got 3 competent ball handlers (Jrue/ White/ PP) and utlimately only need 2 to fill out 48 minutes. There's enough mixing and matching available to cover our bases without having a lot of rotations with awkward pairings.

I think Walsh / Scheierman / Peterson are going to get their chances at some stage (probably not Springer, but still a chance). I don't think you can entirely write them off as not being able to be part of the rotation this year. The point is though that we don't need any of them really to, unless we're down 2 out of our top 8, which, fingers crossed, we can avoid.

We are so very close to winning again (favorites?) The Margin of winning or losing may be a game or 2. Since most/all of our draft picks coming up we own (not sure many top-level contenders do) ..All I am saying is Boston should at least make a strong consideration for it. Although I concede again, it may be very difficult to find a player who would be a definite upgrade over BS/Walsh/Peterson while fitting in financial.

Edit.. Or start playing either Walsh or Peterson every single game to get them ready. playing a few minutes every 3 games or so is going to have them ready for significant emergency minutes come playoffs.

Oh 100%, I think Brad should always be exploring options to add bodies in case of emergency or just if the opportunity presents itself. But options are incredibly limited given that Springer's contract is the biggest ballast we can use in trading for a guy. And any guy coming in off the street is obviously going to have warts of their own given that they're not already on a roster. I'm more in the camp that we need to play the guys we've already got and see if we've got anything there. We can always try to make a move at the deadline if needs must, but how do you assess that need if you don't give these guys a shot?

To be fair though, that is what we're already basically doing with the frontcourt. With KP having been out and now him/Horford being managed for minutes, Joe's already been using Queta/Kornet a ton and figuring out how we'll play with those guys and the rest of the top 8 if that ended up being necessary. Tillman getting in the mix as well.

And realistically that's probably our biggest area of risk with KP/Horford being relied on so heavily. So I can understand why they're not also peppering in the other fringe guys with any regularity since we're already experimenting with 2-3 guys who are outside our top 8. Once they got comfortable with that rotation and how they'd play things if say KP did re-injure himself and be knocked out, god forbid, then I think you'll see more of the likes of Walsh/Peterson.

To some extent I think we take for granted the fact that we're already playing 10 deep, 11 if you include the X man. But hopefully those other guys' time will come soon enough (it's probably inevitable given the grind of the season).