Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8

[Vampirate]

That depends on perspective. That's actually a pretty trash percentage (28.6%). It's a single make away from a much better percentage, of course, but it's also in-line with his performance so far this season. The remark later about the makes being pull-ups is an interesting point, but 12 games into his season, the specifics (especially game to game) mean so very little.

It's up against OKC though, a great defensive, perimeter defensive team. I honestly expected him to struggle to score, as literally everybody should.

His three point shot was a poor night, not a trash one.

A trash three point shooting game is closer to 1-9.

The fact that he was 2/7 and not like 1-11 is something you can live with an off night from 3.

The real issue last night was 0 FTs

His next game is against the Mavs who are an ok-good defending team, but are nowhere close to OKC levels. Let's see how he responds overall.

[tsherkin]

It's up against OKC though, a great defensive, perimeter defensive team. I honestly expected him to struggle to score, as literally everybody should.

Overall, yes.

His three point shot was a poor night, not a trash one.

A trash three point shooting game is closer to 1-9.

We disagree. It is something of an issue of semantics. That percentage is horrendous and I don't agree with your characterization, but that's fine; we can agree to disagree on that one. It does happen, especially with that sort of per-game shooting volume.

The real issue last night was 0 FTs

That's what happens when you take 7 3s and only 4 shots in the key.

His next game is against the Mavs who are an ok-good defending team, but are nowhere close to OKC levels. Let's see how he responds overall.

Yes. As ever, a single game means only so much. And, as you say, the quality of the defense influences individual performance, unquestionably.

[manjusaka]

The real issue last night was 0 FTs

That's what happens when you take 7 3s and only 4 shots in the key.

Without Yak setting the screen for him, he can’t get to his spot. There was a play at the end of the 2nd quarter, he called for a screen but ended with double team on him, they just ignored the screen. When Scottie turns the corner, he ran into a 4 defenders trap, resulting a turnover.

OKC has scouting reports, they know Scottie’s weaknesses.

[MiamiSPX]

The issue is that some of the attempts are just for the sake of taking a 3. He made his first one last night, and on their very next possession I just knew he was going to launch anther one. I'm sure most of us knew that....you could just tell it was coming, regardless of what the D was giving him.

It's obvious, coupled with Darko's comments, that he has been given the directive to take as many as possible. But I assume they didn't say "take as many as possible, regardless of time, situation, score, and defender".

[tsherkin]

Without Yak setting the screen for him, he can’t get to his spot. There was a play at the end of the 2nd quarter, he called for a screen but ended with double team on him, they just ignored the screen. When Scottie turns the corner, he ran into a 4 defenders trap, resulting a turnover.

OKC has scouting reports, they know Scottie’s weaknesses.

Yes. That's baked into the basic premise of using OKC's defensive ability as an explanation for Scottie's performance already, though, so it's somewhat redundant. We know that he had a rough game in large part due to the mix of OKC"s high-end D and his own shortcomings.

[manjusaka]

Without Yak setting the screen for him, he can’t get to his spot. There was a play at the end of the 2nd quarter, he called for a screen but ended with double team on him, they just ignored the screen. When Scottie turns the corner, he ran into a 4 defenders trap, resulting a turnover.

OKC has scouting reports, they know Scottie’s weaknesses.

Yes. That's baked into the basic premise of using OKC's defensive ability as an explanation for Scottie's performance already, though, so it's somewhat redundant. We know that he had a rough game in large part due to the mix of OKC"s high-end D and his own shortcomings.

He needs overcome his own shortcomings period.

[tsherkin]

He needs overcome his own shortcomings period.

No period, OKC's defense is relevant to this specific performance. We continue to speak of Scottie as in the process development for a reason. He isn't a finished product, he doesn't have the necessary skill set yet. This, we know. So what we're looking for is encouraging signs of development, not for him to magically be at that level right now by means of genie-induced abruptness.

Context does matter, a lot.

[Vampirate]

He needs overcome his own shortcomings period.

No period, OKC's defense is relevant to this specific performance. We continue to speak of Scottie as in the process development for a reason. He isn't a finished product, he doesn't have the necessary skill set yet. This, we know. So what we're looking for is encouraging signs of development, not for him to magically be at that level right now by means of genie-induced abruptness.

Context does matter, a lot.

Controversial take but if he thought that he needed to take 3s on this night because he couldn't get to his spots, i'd rather him take even more 3s in the OKC game.

Mainly the #1 thing that I didn't like was him only taking 13 shots throughout the entire game.

So the driving lane is clogged up with great defenders, what's your next move?

[tsherkin]

Controversial take but if he thought that he needed to take 3s on this night because he couldn't get to his spots, i'd rather him take even more 3s in the OKC game.

Mainly the #1 thing that I didn't like was him only taking 13 shots throughout the entire game.

So the driving lane is clogged up with great defenders, what's your next move?

Yeah, I mean, I would have liked to see him working to get decent looks inside the arc and outside the arc, but yes, more shots overall. He did feel a little passive, but he was also passing out a ton to guys bricking the ever-loving hell out of everything, so he was moving the ball quite a lot.

[manjusaka]

He needs overcome his own shortcomings period.

No period, OKC's defense is relevant to this specific performance. We continue to speak of Scottie as in the process development for a reason. He isn't a finished product, he doesn't have the necessary skill set yet. This, we know. So what we're looking for is encouraging signs of development, not for him to magically be at that level right now by means of genie-induced abruptness.

Context does matter, a lot.

Did you see our defence can’t do much against SGA?

Kawhi was not the 3lvl scorer that we saw from the beginning.

If Scottie can’t improve from his shortcomings, and can’t take it to the next level. We should tank hard and move on from him been the alpha.

Remember the days people were complaining about DDR not shooting the 3?

Since he is the alpha, this is the expectation he should bear.

[tsherkin]

Did you see our defence can’t do much against SGA?

I don't understand why you think that comment is relevant to this conversation.

Kawhi was not the 3lvl scorer that we saw from the beginning.

No, but he was a far better shooter and a better athlete, so he had more to work with from the start. He is also not as effective a playmaker. Again, not really sure why you thought this was a useful remark.

If Scottie can’t improve from his shortcomings, and can’t take it to the next level. We should tank hard and move on from him been the alpha.

That is one thought, sure. I don't know that I agree with that, though. Tanking has its own failings and shortcomings as a strategy, totally lacking in any sort of guarantee and being ENTIRELY dependent upon luck and timing.

Remember the days people were complaining about DDR not shooting the 3?

Yes, and with him, we were able to build an ECF team which won as many as 59 games while he was here.

[HangTime]

Naw.

What you saw from OKC game is how demoralizing it can be to an entire team when you strip too many pieces away.

No Brown, no problem
No KO, no problem
No IQ, tougher...but no problem
No Yak and none of the above, big problem

It's about advantages. OKC can defend 1 on 1 because they have great 1 on 1 defenders including 1 off the bench. Then add in that they are smart and know when to help and when not to.

Barnes was double teamed most often when touching the ball inside the arc. So he had to give up the ball and the other 4 guys could not take advantage. And not hard to tell why....

Bruno...no offense
Davion...no offense
Shead...no offense
Mogbo...limited offense
Walter...limited offense
RJ...inside scorer
Boucher...hit nothing from outside

When you have 7 guys who shoot 2 for 24 from 3, that's an issue. And yeah. Yak can't either but he is a great screen setter, good rebounder, great passer, and finisher inside.

So what was there for Barnes to be excited about? We could never get anything going TO get the excitement up. And he'll, Barnes had more assist than the other starters combined. He tried getting guys going but just so many missed shots. And he himself his shot was not there.

So yeah, hard to get excited when it was bad right from the start

Temple was on the Raptors Show with Bonner and Blake today and he said how impressed he was with how vocal and supportive Barnes was during a blowout loss. Starts roughly at the 35 min mark:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2yYwiZaWMM6akcJAiJfgjw?si=03a83cf1859b47d5

I guess you never exactly know what the vibe is on the bench when you're not physically near it.

Meanwhile we have people psychoanalyzing his post game presser for not being emotional after a crushing loss, yet being hyped after a win against the Pacers.

Temple is obviously going to glaze his teammates, but at the same time, lets think of all those games he was on the bench injured, he was always cheering, talking to guys when they sat for a res, breaking down the game etc.

The whole "Scottie doesn't care" think is blown out of proportion, I don't think I've seen a single player on this roster look like they dont give a ****, we'd have been blown out a whole lot more this season if that were the case.

There's no team turmoil, that makes the media sad, so they try to create it.

[Scase]

Temple was on the Raptors Show with Bonner and Blake today and he said how impressed he was with how vocal and supportive Barnes was during a blowout loss. Starts roughly at the 35 min mark:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2yYwiZaWMM6akcJAiJfgjw?si=03a83cf1859b47d5

I guess you never exactly know what the vibe is on the bench when you're not physically near it.

Meanwhile we have people psychoanalyzing his post game presser for not being emotional after a crushing loss, yet being hyped after a win against the Pacers.

Temple is obviously going to glaze his teammates, but at the same time, lets think of all those games he was on the bench injured, he was always cheering, talking to guys when they sat for a res, breaking down the game etc.

The whole "Scottie doesn't care" think is blown out of proportion, I don't think I've seen a single player on this roster look like they dont give a ****, we'd have been blown out a whole lot more this season if that were the case.

There's no team turmoil, that makes the media sad, so they try to create it.

The media must be on these very boards lol

[manjusaka]

Did you see our defence can’t do much against SGA?

I don't understand why you think that comment is relevant to this conversation.

Kawhi was not the 3lvl scorer that we saw from the beginning.

No, but he was a far better shooter and a better athlete, so he had more to work with from the start. He is also not as effective a playmaker. Again, not really sure why you thought this was a useful remark.

If Scottie can’t improve from his shortcomings, and can’t take it to the next level. We should tank hard and move on from him been the alpha.

That is one thought, sure. I don't know that I agree with that, though. Tanking has its own failings and shortcomings as a strategy, totally lacking in any sort of guarantee and being ENTIRELY dependent upon luck and timing.

Remember the days people were complaining about DDR not shooting the 3?

Yes, and with him, we were able to build an ECF team which won as many as 59 games while he was here.

Ya I get it.

Masai Ujiri : “He is a baby.”

[Vampirate]

Remember the days people were complaining about DDR not shooting the 3?

Yes, and with him, we were able to build an ECF team which won as many as 59 games while he was here.

Given where Siakam started compared to where he's at now with the 3, I think every teams young promising young player needs to incorporate it as early as possible and not worry about how ugly it looks.

Players like Bam and Derozan started too late imo.

[tsherkin]

Given where Siakam started compared to where he's at now with the 3, I think every teams young promising young player needs to incorporate it as early as possible and not worry about how ugly it looks.

Players like Bam and Derozan started too late imo.

DeRozan's problems had little enough to do with his mediocre 3pt shooting. He had a lot of other limitations. Ultimately he found a way to be a pretty good RS player anyway, but a bunch of things lowered his upper bound.

Scottie working on the 3 is sensible, but we'll see eventually whether there's actual improvement there or not and what else he needs to do so he doesn't turn into another modern player who has no consistency because he's all rim-or-3, even if he does develop his proficiency.

[HumbleRen]

I think even if Poeltl was there, he’d have the same issue.

He’s not a polished enough ball handler yet. If he was even 15% better as ball handler, he’d average 25 a night.

[Thaddy]

I think even if Poeltl was there, he’d have the same issue.

He’s not a polished enough ball handler yet. If he was even 15% better as ball handler, he’d average 25 a night.

Handles and shooting are improvement points. He is making strides but he needs more volume as a creator.

[Brinbe]

Scottie becoming a nightly triple-double threat. Firmly in his Magic era in this current role. Just a shame he doesn't have better scoring teammates to take full advantage of what he creates.

Read on Twitter

[KP730]

Scottie becoming a nightly triple-double threat. Firmly in his Magic era in this current role. Just a shame he doesn't have better scoring teammates to take full advantage of what he creates.

Read on Twitter

AND he plays excellent defence

sky is the limit. still underrated, even by raps fans