At what point do Lakers fans owe Darvin Ham an apology?

[Revived]

[Revived]

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[Godymas]

it’s the gift that keeps on giving

their defense is ATROCIOUS. Almost as bad as the Wizards.

[Onlytimewilltel]

The discussion in this thread largely ignores the fact that the players hated Ham. They were taking not so subtle shots at him in postgame interviews all last season. So regardless of whether you think JJ is a significant improvement from Ham from a tactical and leadership perspective (which I do), the players had tuned out and given up on Ham. When that happens there’s no going back.

Yea Ham lost the locker room and respect it was very obvious

[sikma42]

The discussion in this thread largely ignores the fact that the players hated Ham. They were taking not so subtle shots at him in postgame interviews all last season. So regardless of whether you think JJ is a significant improvement from Ham from a tactical and leadership perspective (which I do), the players had tuned out and given up on Ham. When that happens there’s no going back.

Yea Ham lost the locker room and respect it was very obvious

You don’t think JJ is close to losing the locker room after 20 games? You don’t think those blowouts were due in part to tuning JJ out.

This is all based on Lebron’s whims and right now he feels tied to JJ bc he brought him in. But he can decide to throw him under the bus any minute.


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[The4thHorseman]

Is there a list of teams who were fighting over signing Ham as their HC?

Same thing with David Blatt. People rushed to say he got a raw deal when the Cavs fired him yet who were the teams knocking down his door wanting to hire him?

[Godymas]

Is there a list of teams who were fighting over signing Ham as their HC?

Same thing with David Blatt. People rushed to say he got a raw deal when the Cavs fired him yet who were the teams knocking down his door wanting to hire him?

Notice how both these guys coached LeBron.

I’m literally looking at the Reddit post for when Ty Lue was fired and he is being called a “trash coach” word for word and heavily agreed.

Ham is back in Milwaukee and maybe he chooses to HC again, maybe not considering the options are likely Portland and Washington and Cleveland was not going to take Ham over Kenny Atkinson.

[The4thHorseman]

Is there a list of teams who were fighting over signing Ham as their HC?

Same thing with David Blatt. People rushed to say he got a raw deal when the Cavs fired him yet who were the teams knocking down his door wanting to hire him?

Notice how both these guys coached LeBron.

I’m literally looking at the Reddit post for when Ty Lue was fired and he is being called a “trash coach” word for word and heavily agreed.

Ham is back in Milwaukee and maybe he chooses to HC again, maybe not considering the options are likely Portland and Washington and Cleveland was not going to take Ham over Kenny Atkinson.

So in other words... the great coach that Ham allegedly is, he never got a HC job offer from any team this past offseason?

[Godymas]

Is there a list of teams who were fighting over signing Ham as their HC?

Same thing with David Blatt. People rushed to say he got a raw deal when the Cavs fired him yet who were the teams knocking down his door wanting to hire him?

Notice how both these guys coached LeBron.

I’m literally looking at the Reddit post for when Ty Lue was fired and he is being called a “trash coach” word for word and heavily agreed.

Ham is back in Milwaukee and maybe he chooses to HC again, maybe not considering the options are likely Portland and Washington and Cleveland was not going to take Ham over Kenny Atkinson.

So in other words... the great coach that Ham allegedly is, he never got a HC job offer from any team this past offseason?

Where were the openings?

Brooklyn locked down their coach before Ham was fired

Cleveland chose Kenny Atkinson rightfully.

Did Ham really want to coach that god awful Wizards team?

[The4thHorseman]

Notice how both these guys coached LeBron.

I’m literally looking at the Reddit post for when Ty Lue was fired and he is being called a “trash coach” word for word and heavily agreed.

Ham is back in Milwaukee and maybe he chooses to HC again, maybe not considering the options are likely Portland and Washington and Cleveland was not going to take Ham over Kenny Atkinson.

So in other words... the great coach that Ham allegedly is, he never got a HC job offer from any team this past offseason?

Where were the openings?

Brooklyn locked down their coach before Ham was fired

Cleveland chose Kenny Atkinson rightfully.

Did Ham really want to coach that god awful Wizards team?

Ham was never offered or even interviewed for the Wiz HC position or any other HC position this past offseason. If he's as good as you claim, teams would be firing their current HC and fighting over to hire him, no?

[og15]

Speaking on the impact of coaching:

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]

Sometimes when these guys are arguing, they are arguing different points and it convolutes the debate, because guys are arguing against something the other person isn't necessarily saying , though that happens with many people and debates.

Shaq later mentions that coaching doesn't affect his confidence, and that's totally fine, and it is true for most star players, but it's not true that it doesn't affect anyone's confidence, eg, complimentary and role players.

Second, Shaq doesn't acknowledge that having a system in place and then sitting and saying go figure it out is still telling you to figure it out within a structure. It's different than saying figure it out without a structure.

Kenny and Chuck are correct in that coaching can affect some players confidence, Shaq is correct in that it is not all. Kenny mentioning coaching affecting where doubles come from, and switching it up to throw guys off is true, and the opposing coach (if he has the personnel) adjusting to take away that advantage can also affect things.

Them throwing shots at each other is funny though.

[og15]

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Lebron's declined impact this season definitely plays a factor, at least to me.

Lebron going from +4.1 On to -7.1 On and +9.8 NetRtg to -12.4 NetRtg definitely makes it harder to win as much. Of course when you have any player that's in their late 30's, this is something that can literally happen very suddenly in terms of impact dropping. It can even happen from start of the season to the end of it.

[sikma42]

Read on Twitter

Lebron's declined impact this season definitely plays a factor, at least to me.

Lebron going from +4.1 On to -7.1 On and +9.8 NetRtg to -12.4 NetRtg definitely makes it harder to win as much. Of course when you have any player that's in their late 30's, this is something that can literally happen very suddenly in terms of impact dropping. It can even happen from start of the season to the end of it.

Thoughts on the Lakers autoswitching 1/5 pick and rolls? It has destroyed the defense and seems like a fools errand. This is JJ’s scheme and it’s ridiculous.

Darvin got hammered for drop coverage. It was the right move.

Adrian Griffin got hammered for his defensive adjustments.

But with JJ there is no criticism for anything. Bc if he can’t do it, it can’t be done. Whatever results he gets, are the best possible from any human in existence. Nobody could do better.

[og15]

Read on Twitter

Lebron's declined impact this season definitely plays a factor, at least to me.

Lebron going from +4.1 On to -7.1 On and +9.8 NetRtg to -12.4 NetRtg definitely makes it harder to win as much. Of course when you have any player that's in their late 30's, this is something that can literally happen very suddenly in terms of impact dropping. It can even happen from start of the season to the end of it.

Thoughts on the Lakers autoswitching 1/5 pick and rolls? It has destroyed the defense and seems like a fools errand. This is JJ’s scheme and it’s ridiculous.

Darvin got hammered for drop coverage. It was the right move.

Adrian Griffin got hammered for his defensive adjustments.

But with JJ there is no criticism for anything. Bc if he can’t do it, it can’t be done. Whatever results he gets, are the best possible from any human in existence. Nobody could do better.

I haven't followed the criticisms or lack thereof on specific things, I was just speaking on a record based criticism.

As an aside, I find it funny when fans are always complaining about drop coverage sometimes as if every pick and roll defensive scheme doesn't have a weakness and as if what you can do defensively also isn't based on your personell.

That said, the Lakers have a 113 Drtg with Lebron off, last season it was 117.2 when he was off and 115.5 when he was on. So something in their defensive scheme is working results wise this season, at least when Lebron lineups have not been on the floor.

[ConSarnit]

Lebron's declined impact this season definitely plays a factor, at least to me.

Lebron going from +4.1 On to -7.1 On and +9.8 NetRtg to -12.4 NetRtg definitely makes it harder to win as much. Of course when you have any player that's in their late 30's, this is something that can literally happen very suddenly in terms of impact dropping. It can even happen from start of the season to the end of it.

Thoughts on the Lakers autoswitching 1/5 pick and rolls? It has destroyed the defense and seems like a fools errand. This is JJ’s scheme and it’s ridiculous.

Darvin got hammered for drop coverage. It was the right move.

Adrian Griffin got hammered for his defensive adjustments.

But with JJ there is no criticism for anything. Bc if he can’t do it, it can’t be done. Whatever results he gets, are the best possible from any human in existence. Nobody could do better.

I haven't followed the criticisms or lack thereof on specific things, I was just speaking on a record based criticism.

As an aside, I find it funny when fans are always complaining about drop coverage sometimes as if every pick and roll defensive scheme doesn't have a weakness and as if what you can do defensively also isn't based on your personell.

That said, the Lakers have a 113 Drtg with Lebron off, last season it was 117.2 when he was off and 115.5 when he was on. So something in their defensive scheme is working results wise this season, at least when Lebron lineups have not been on the floor.

JJ obviously doesn’t like DLo but he seems to be ignoring something that Ham and Pelinka have known for a couple of years: if you want LeBron to be able to perform on both ends of the floor you have to reduce his playmaking load. The Westbrook experiment failed but the thought process was good. You can’t have LeBron having heavy playmaking usage and hope that he can also give enough energy on defense. DLo is not a great option but he did at least take some of the play making load off of Lebron. The Lakers (JJ) are over extending Lebron. He can’t give 100% on both ends anymore and DLo is one of the only options to reduce that load. JJ needs to do a better job protecting Lebron. Ham was better at it than JJ has been.

[Onlytimewilltel]

The discussion in this thread largely ignores the fact that the players hated Ham. They were taking not so subtle shots at him in postgame interviews all last season. So regardless of whether you think JJ is a significant improvement from Ham from a tactical and leadership perspective (which I do), the players had tuned out and given up on Ham. When that happens there’s no going back.

Yea Ham lost the locker room and respect it was very obvious

You don’t think JJ is close to losing the locker room after 20 games? You don’t think those blowouts were due in part to tuning JJ out.

This is all based on Lebron’s whims and right now he feels tied to JJ bc he brought him in. But he can decide to throw him under the bus any minute.


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I didn’t say anything about JJ. Only Ham. Haven’t really watched the lakers much so far this year, they kinda suck… lol

[Tottery]

The discussion in this thread largely ignores the fact that the players hated Ham. They were taking not so subtle shots at him in postgame interviews all last season. So regardless of whether you think JJ is a significant improvement from Ham from a tactical and leadership perspective (which I do), the players had tuned out and given up on Ham. When that happens there’s no going back.

Yea Ham lost the locker room and respect it was very obvious

You don’t think JJ is close to losing the locker room after 20 games? You don’t think those blowouts were due in part to tuning JJ out.

This is all based on Lebron’s whims and right now he feels tied to JJ bc he brought him in. But he can decide to throw him under the bus any minute.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I don't have an unfiltered hate for JJ like the few of you keeping these threads alive, but you are right. Eventually, players blame coaches because they dont accept accountability and believe they're better than what they actually are.

Last night, they clearly rallied together, but the talent simply isn't there. Early last season they had a top defense due to Ham including Prince, Reddish, and Vando into starting line ups. Sometimes all 3 were starting. The issue is they still sucked, which is why Ham kept tinkering with the line up.

Either way, Ham lost the locker room and was reportedly a bad vocal and x's and o's coach. The blame for the Lakers woes should go to Pelinka for the terrible roster changes. They once had everything they need now.

Caruso
KCP
Bradley
Howard/Mcgee
Danny Green

Those are 3 and D players along with rotating bigs so AD could play the 5. Pelinka got rid of all that.

[The Servant]

People that are pro Darvin Ham:

What aspect of his coaching did you find superior to JJs?

What aspects have you noticed JJs coaching to be lacking?

[Revived]

What aspects have you noticed JJs coaching to be lacking?

Read on Twitter

[jokeboy86]

Yea Ham lost the locker room and respect it was very obvious

You don’t think JJ is close to losing the locker room after 20 games? You don’t think those blowouts were due in part to tuning JJ out.

This is all based on Lebron’s whims and right now he feels tied to JJ bc he brought him in. But he can decide to throw him under the bus any minute.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I don't have an unfiltered hate for JJ like the few of you keeping these threads alive, but you are right. Eventually, players blame coaches because they dont accept accountability and believe they're better than what they actually are.

Last night, they clearly rallied together, but the talent simply isn't there. Early last season they had a top defense due to Ham including Prince, Reddish, and Vando into starting line ups. Sometimes all 3 were starting. The issue is they still sucked, which is why Ham kept tinkering with the line up.

Either way, Ham lost the locker room and was reportedly a bad vocal and x's and o's coach. The blame for the Lakers woes should go to Pelinka for the terrible roster changes. They once had everything they need now.

Caruso
KCP
Bradley
Howard/Mcgee
Danny Green

Those are 3 and D players along with rotating bigs so AD could play the 5. Pelinka got rid of all that.

Unfortunately the day Jeannie fires Kobe's best friend will be the day pigs fly.