PG: Return of the Tank

[ConSarnit]

That is the most important information, when it comes to drafting. In the end, developing your young guys and creating the right culture is the only way to be a contender. If you are hung up on High Draft Picks, you will end like the 76ers or the pistons and all the other failures that happened.

Strawman. No one who wants a high draft pick is arguing against have a strong culture.

This statement doesnt even make sense. By tanking you literally destroy any kind of culture you could have.

And where did i say "i dont want a high pick". Please read properly next time.

You said that getting hung up on high draft picks you will end up like the Sixers. You can be a bad team and maintain a good culture. I’m not sure how you don’t understand this (I do understand given your nature as a poster but this shouldn’t be hard to figure out, even for you).

[ConSarnit]

That is the most important information, when it comes to drafting. In the end, developing your young guys and creating the right culture is the only way to be a contender. If you are hung up on High Draft Picks, you will end like the 76ers or the pistons and all the other failures that happened.

Strawman. No one who wants a high draft pick is arguing against have a strong culture.

This is a digression because culture means a lot of different things to different people, but at some point if you are selling out to get that draft pick that player IS the culture, or at least has a large influence (see Embiid in Philadelphia, LaMelo in Charlotte, etc). I think the Spurs have been the only team that's really ever stuck to their guns about what kind of person they'll bring into their team.

This is a chicken and egg argument. Lack of culture likely created the Embiid and Melo situations. In PHI especially they ignored accountability and now they are reaping what they sowed. Embiid acts unprofessionally and doesn’t show up in shape, even Simmons never improved or even acknowledges his own lack of development.

Cuture is setting the right tone by having strong systems in place, holding young players accountable and teaching them how to be pros. On floor product is the least important part of culture because young players are going to make mistakes. You can be a really bad team and maintain a good culture.

[Pointgod]

I'm not against accumulating talent or assets.

But the assertion was made that you're more likely to get a superstar championship 1st option for your team in the top 5 than other method. I just wanted to test that assumption out and I'm too lazy for data , but I'm sure someone might be.

Of the last 20 years, take the top 4 champions contenders each year. It would be interesting to see where their 1 option came from.

Was it via their draft pick in the top 5?
Was it their draft pick later?
Did they sign or trade for it?
Was the player they traded or signed for a top 5 pick?

Just an interesting exercise that with two kids I can't do.

There are many ways to get said player you need to be on a championship path....But you also have many factors and you need to read the room of where your team is as a whole...

-Some teams are not in the market for a championship level player to be handed to them via free agency/Trade demands by 1st options, Some teams are
-Some teams have a boat load of assets accumulated via the draft most times (Rockets) + Draft picks (Thunder) to be able to make potential deals for true number 1s while still being good enough, Some teams have very low assets or draft picks by previous trades or making bad draft selections.
-Some teams are already just not good enough to compete for anything with the talent they already accumulated and there are no real trades they can make to improve enough to become contenders asap...so thats when the draft becomes one of the best ways to succeed. (Raptors/Pistons/Wizards/Jazz etc..) fall into that category ....

You can make trades for star players but lets not use the once and a lifetime Kawhi trade to judge that route....Because if we are ever going to make a trade for that superstar its going to be via draft accumulated talent, plus a boat load of future draft picks....That is how you get superstars in todays market....Lets just use our assets as example....It would take 4-5 FRPs + Quickley/Dick/Fillers or Barnes to get that trade even in the conversation...And you have a bidding war and also have to take into account if a player demands a location and how many years he has left on his deal....Would it be worth it etc...

Free agency is a wash for us.

Drafting well + Hope you can just draft said superstar is most logical for a rebuilding/small market teams to go...Its been that way since forever...Does it always lead to a championship? not always but is it the step in the right direction....Yes it is...And the higher you draft the better outcome...Doesn't mean you can't get lucky but by probabilities you would want a higher pick to succeed if your path is the draft.

Trying not to be rude but ... blah blah blah.

It's a lot of conjecture without any data backing it up.

The assertion was made that drafting a top 5 player that will be a superstar #1 option that will lead our team to a title vs another method.

It is that true?

There’s been a couple analysis done on nba draft picks and they reinforce the value of a top 5 pick.

https://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

https://www.365scores.com/news/the-expected-value-of-an-nba-draft-pick

If you get the first pick in the NBA Draft, you’ve lucked out. Chances are, your player will become a perennial All-Star. That is the expectation at least. Not every NBA draft class will feature a LeBron James, a Dwight Howard, or even a Victor Wembanyama, but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t exceptional talent in each class.

Landing a top-five pick in the NBA Draft is massive. Historically, these selections have a high probability of producing All-Stars or at least consistent starters who can significantly impact a team’s success. Players drafted within the top five are often seen as the most talented and NBA-ready prospects, expected to transition smoothly into the professional level and contribute right away.

https://quantimschmitz.com/2023/04/02/how-valuable-is-each-nba-draft-pick/

[Duffman100]

There are many ways to get said player you need to be on a championship path....But you also have many factors and you need to read the room of where your team is as a whole...

-Some teams are not in the market for a championship level player to be handed to them via free agency/Trade demands by 1st options, Some teams are
-Some teams have a boat load of assets accumulated via the draft most times (Rockets) + Draft picks (Thunder) to be able to make potential deals for true number 1s while still being good enough, Some teams have very low assets or draft picks by previous trades or making bad draft selections.
-Some teams are already just not good enough to compete for anything with the talent they already accumulated and there are no real trades they can make to improve enough to become contenders asap...so thats when the draft becomes one of the best ways to succeed. (Raptors/Pistons/Wizards/Jazz etc..) fall into that category ....

You can make trades for star players but lets not use the once and a lifetime Kawhi trade to judge that route....Because if we are ever going to make a trade for that superstar its going to be via draft accumulated talent, plus a boat load of future draft picks....That is how you get superstars in todays market....Lets just use our assets as example....It would take 4-5 FRPs + Quickley/Dick/Fillers or Barnes to get that trade even in the conversation...And you have a bidding war and also have to take into account if a player demands a location and how many years he has left on his deal....Would it be worth it etc...

Free agency is a wash for us.

Drafting well + Hope you can just draft said superstar is most logical for a rebuilding/small market teams to go...Its been that way since forever...Does it always lead to a championship? not always but is it the step in the right direction....Yes it is...And the higher you draft the better outcome...Doesn't mean you can't get lucky but by probabilities you would want a higher pick to succeed if your path is the draft.

Trying not to be rude but ... blah blah blah.

It's a lot of conjecture without any data backing it up.

The assertion was made that drafting a top 5 player that will be a superstar #1 option that will lead our team to a title vs another method.

It is that true?

There’s been a couple analysis done on nba draft picks and they reinforce the value of a top 5 pick.

https://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

https://www.365scores.com/news/the-expected-value-of-an-nba-draft-pick

If you get the first pick in the NBA Draft, you’ve lucked out. Chances are, your player will become a perennial All-Star. That is the expectation at least. Not every NBA draft class will feature a LeBron James, a Dwight Howard, or even a Victor Wembanyama, but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t exceptional talent in each class.

Landing a top-five pick in the NBA Draft is massive. Historically, these selections have a high probability of producing All-Stars or at least consistent starters who can significantly impact a team’s success. Players drafted within the top five are often seen as the most talented and NBA-ready prospects, expected to transition smoothly into the professional level and contribute right away.

https://quantimschmitz.com/2023/04/02/how-valuable-is-each-nba-draft-pick/

[/quote

But that isn't what was said and isn't the question.

[Clutch0z24]

Trying not to be rude but ... blah blah blah.

It's a lot of conjecture without any data backing it up.

The assertion was made that drafting a top 5 player that will be a superstar #1 option that will lead our team to a title vs another method.

It is that true?

There’s been a couple analysis done on nba draft picks and they reinforce the value of a top 5 pick.

https://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

https://www.365scores.com/news/the-expected-value-of-an-nba-draft-pick

If you get the first pick in the NBA Draft, you’ve lucked out. Chances are, your player will become a perennial All-Star. That is the expectation at least. Not every NBA draft class will feature a LeBron James, a Dwight Howard, or even a Victor Wembanyama, but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t exceptional talent in each class.

Landing a top-five pick in the NBA Draft is massive. Historically, these selections have a high probability of producing All-Stars or at least consistent starters who can significantly impact a team’s success. Players drafted within the top five are often seen as the most talented and NBA-ready prospects, expected to transition smoothly into the professional level and contribute right away.

https://quantimschmitz.com/2023/04/02/how-valuable-is-each-nba-draft-pick/

[/quote

But that isn't what was said and isn't the question.

Graph shows clearly the top draft picks are more valuable over the history of the NBA which means yes you are more likely to get a number 1 option in that pick range....Now does one player get you a championship...No not at all...I don't think anyone said it does....

Its a team sport...Not even LeBron James or Michael Jordan alone has won a title they all needed multiple great players along side them....That is why i said historically it took 2 high end picks (and you have to actually get the picks right) and obviously some good Gming to build a team around your core ...

Bird/McHale Celtics = 2 top 6 picks, Magic/Kareems Lakers = 2 1st overall picks, Jordan/Pippen Bulls = 2 top 5 picks, Shaq/Kobe Lakers = 1st 13th picks, Curry/Klays Warriors = 7th 11th picks, Tatum/Browns Celtics = 2 3rd pick

It usually takes 2 hits in the high end of drafts...Obviously you need the right draft and make the right picks for this to count but generally speaking....There seems to be a trend with past dynasties and how they were built using high picks.

Obviously Free agency and superstar players teaming up to make super teams have been a way to win the title easily but sadly we will never be a destination for players to want to build a super team here....That is why i am so pro draft cause that is one way that history shows can build any small market team into a dynasty.

[Pointgod]

Trying not to be rude but ... blah blah blah.

It's a lot of conjecture without any data backing it up.

The assertion was made that drafting a top 5 player that will be a superstar #1 option that will lead our team to a title vs another method.

It is that true?

There’s been a couple analysis done on nba draft picks and they reinforce the value of a top 5 pick.

https://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

https://www.365scores.com/news/the-expected-value-of-an-nba-draft-pick

If you get the first pick in the NBA Draft, you’ve lucked out. Chances are, your player will become a perennial All-Star. That is the expectation at least. Not every NBA draft class will feature a LeBron James, a Dwight Howard, or even a Victor Wembanyama, but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t exceptional talent in each class.

Landing a top-five pick in the NBA Draft is massive. Historically, these selections have a high probability of producing All-Stars or at least consistent starters who can significantly impact a team’s success. Players drafted within the top five are often seen as the most talented and NBA-ready prospects, expected to transition smoothly into the professional level and contribute right away.

https://quantimschmitz.com/2023/04/02/how-valuable-is-each-nba-draft-pick/

[/quote

But that isn't what was said and isn't the question.

Clutch literally took the time to lay it out for you. If you agree that getting a superstar is a prerequisite for a title and there are only 3 ways to get a superstar, draft, traded or free agency, and we’re essentially cutoff from free agency which leads us to two other paths then it’s either the draft or trade.

And the data is clear if you’re going to build through the draft using your own picks, then top 5 is where you’ll find the superstars. Even if you want to pursue the trade route, you’ll still need multiple picks and assets to trade for that superstar without gutting your team of valuable players. So yeah if you’re in the position to land a high draft pick we’re better off doing that rather than trying build from the middle.

[Duffman100]

There’s been a couple analysis done on nba draft picks and they reinforce the value of a top 5 pick.

https://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

https://www.365scores.com/news/the-expected-value-of-an-nba-draft-pick

https://quantimschmitz.com/2023/04/02/how-valuable-is-each-nba-draft-pick/

[/quote

But that isn't what was said and isn't the question.

Clutch literally took the time to lay it out for you. If you agree that getting a superstar is a prerequisite for a title and there are only 3 ways to get a superstar, draft, traded or free agency, and we’re essentially cutoff from free agency which leads us to two other paths then it’s either the draft or trade.

And the data is clear if you’re going to build through the draft using your own picks, then top 5 is where you’ll find the superstars. Even if you want to pursue the trade route, you’ll still need multiple picks and assets to trade for that superstar without gutting your team of valuable players. So yeah if you’re in the position to land a high draft pick we’re better off doing that rather than trying build from the middle.

Yea he laid out something that wasn't the point. Much like you did.

The point that was made wasn't "are top 5 players more likely to be better". Clearly they are

The point was "you're more likely to get a championship 1st option that will lead your team to the finals from drafting in the top 5"

A player drafted in the top 5 being a superstar is a different question than that player leading your team to the the finals.

[YogurtProducer]

I've been told Presti is a mediocre GM.

I've been told it was mostly luck due to a trade.

It absolutely was

Right place right time for sure, but that was a team that won 47/48/49 in 3 years with a Russ/PG13 core and lost in the first round 3 straight years.

He did exactly what you claim to hate in a team and got absolutely **** lucky LAC decided to trade them a future MVP coming off a rookie season and a bucnh more assets.

If someone would have offered us that for Siakam in 2022 we would have taken that to.

[YogurtProducer]

I am not engaging with this disingenuous reply any further than to say, stop conflating me with the extreme pro-tankers who think in black and white concepts such as top 5 or bust when it comes to tanking. Neither I, or the poster I was responding to, used that extreme threshold. In fact I have never been that extreme of a pro-tanker and my post history proves it.

The extreme pro-tankers think the only way to tank is "prioritizing losing." To me, and I've opined this multiple times, tanking is when winning isn't prioritized, in order to prioritize asset building and accumulation instead.

How is it a disingenuous reply. I'm asking what is actually more attainable and viable path to get a superstar

This was true 40 years ago. But in todays players movement era it can be skewed.

There are 3 ways to get a superstar:

Draft

Trade

Free Agency

Of those 3 methods we only have access to 2. We will never attract a true #1 in free agency because we are not a premier market like LA or MIA. Legit #1 options also generally have a say in where they are going to be traded. We never appear on those lists.

If drafting in the top 5 is a long shot, the other options are even less likely for a franchise like ours.

Funniest part of this post is that our only championship came via trade, and all our tanking and good picks have ended up with nothing

[YogurtProducer]

There’s been a couple analysis done on nba draft picks and they reinforce the value of a top 5 pick.

https://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

https://www.365scores.com/news/the-expected-value-of-an-nba-draft-pick

https://quantimschmitz.com/2023/04/02/how-valuable-is-each-nba-draft-pick/

[/quote

But that isn't what was said and isn't the question.

Clutch literally took the time to lay it out for you. If you agree that getting a superstar is a prerequisite for a title and there are only 3 ways to get a superstar, draft, traded or free agency, and we’re essentially cutoff from free agency which leads us to two other paths then it’s either the draft or trade.

And the data is clear if you’re going to build through the draft using your own picks, then top 5 is where you’ll find the superstars. Even if you want to pursue the trade route, you’ll still need multiple picks and assets to trade for that superstar without gutting your team of valuable players. So yeah if you’re in the position to land a high draft pick we’re better off doing that rather than trying build from the middle.

With the upcoming Canadian talent being available over the next decade, IDK if free agency should be wrote off.

[Duffman100]

2000 NBA Finals
Los Angeles Lakers: Shaquille O'Neal (FA)
Indiana Pacers: Reggie Miller (drafted 11)

2001 NBA Finals
Los Angeles Lakers: Shaquille O'Neal (FA)
Philadelphia 76ers: Allen Iverson (drafted 1st)

2002 NBA Finals
Los Angeles Lakers: Shaquille O'Neal (FA)
New Jersey Nets: Jason Kidd (trade)

2003 NBA Finals
San Antonio Spurs: Tim Duncan (drafted 1st)
New Jersey Nets: Jason Kidd (trade)

2004 NBA Finals
Detroit Pistons: Chauncey Billups (trade)
Los Angeles Lakers: Shaquille O'Neal (fa)

2005 NBA Finals
San Antonio Spurs: Tim Duncan (drafted 1st)
Detroit Pistons: Chauncey Billups (trade)

2006 NBA Finals
Miami Heat: Dwyane Wade (drafted 5th)
Dallas Mavericks: Dirk Nowitzki (drafted 9th)

2007 NBA Finals
San Antonio Spurs: Tim Duncan (drafted 1st)
Cleveland Cavaliers: LeBron James (drafted 1st)

2008 NBA Finals
Boston Celtics: Paul Pierce (drafted 10th)
Los Angeles Lakers: Kobe Bryant (drafted 13th)

2009 NBA Finals
Los Angeles Lakers: Kobe Bryant (drafted 13th)
Orlando Magic: Dwight Howard (drafted 1st)

2010 NBA Finals
Los Angeles Lakers: Kobe Bryant (drafted 13th)
Boston Celtics: Paul Pierce (drafted 10th)

2011 NBA Finals
Dallas Mavericks: Dirk Nowitzki (drafted 9th)
Miami Heat: LeBron James (FA)

2012 NBA Finals
Miami Heat: LeBron James (FA)
Oklahoma City Thunder: Kevin Durant (drafted 2nd)

2013 NBA Finals
Miami Heat: LeBron James (FA)
San Antonio Spurs: Tim Duncan (drafted 1st)

2014 NBA Finals
San Antonio Spurs: Tim Duncan (drafted 1st)
Miami Heat: LeBron James (FA)

2015 NBA Finals
Golden State Warriors: Stephen Curry (drafted 7th)
Cleveland Cavaliers: LeBron James (FA)

2016 NBA Finals
Cleveland Cavaliers: LeBron James (FA)
Golden State Warriors: Stephen Curry (drafted 7th)

2017 NBA Finals
Golden State Warriors: Stephen Curry (drafted 7th)
Cleveland Cavaliers: LeBron James (FA)

2018 NBA Finals
Golden State Warriors: Stephen Curry (drafted 7th)
Cleveland Cavaliers: LeBron James (FA)

2019 NBA Finals
Toronto Raptors: Kawhi Leonard (trade)
Golden State Warriors: Stephen Curry (drafted 7th)

2020 NBA Finals
Los Angeles Lakers: LeBron James (FA)
Miami Heat: Jimmy Butler (FA / Trade (SNT)

2021 NBA Finals
Milwaukee Bucks: Giannis Antetokounmpo (15th pick)
Phoenix Suns: Devin Booker (13th pick)

2022 NBA Finals
Golden State Warriors: Stephen Curry (drafted 7th)
Boston Celtics: Jayson Tatum (drafted 3rd)

2023 NBA Finals
Denver Nuggets: Nikola Jokić (drafted 41st)
Miami Heat: Jimmy Butler (FA / Trade (SNT)

2024 NBA Finals
Dallas Mavericks: Luka Doncic (drafted 3rd)
Boston Celtics: Jayson Tatum (drafted 3rd)

[Duffman100]

2000 NBA Finals
Los Angeles Lakers: Shaquille O'Neal (FA)
Indiana Pacers: Reggie Miller (drafted 11)

2001 NBA Finals
Los Angeles Lakers: Shaquille O'Neal (FA)
Philadelphia 76ers: Allen Iverson (drafted 1st)

2002 NBA Finals
Los Angeles Lakers: Shaquille O'Neal (FA)
New Jersey Nets: Jason Kidd (trade)

2003 NBA Finals
San Antonio Spurs: Tim Duncan (drafted 1st)
New Jersey Nets: Jason Kidd (trade)

2004 NBA Finals
Detroit Pistons: Chauncey Billups (trade)
Los Angeles Lakers: Shaquille O'Neal (fa)

2005 NBA Finals
San Antonio Spurs: Tim Duncan (drafted 1st)
Detroit Pistons: Chauncey Billups (trade)

2006 NBA Finals
Miami Heat: Dwyane Wade (drafted 5th)
Dallas Mavericks: Dirk Nowitzki (drafted 9th)

2007 NBA Finals
San Antonio Spurs: Tim Duncan (drafted 1st)
Cleveland Cavaliers: LeBron James (drafted 1st)

2008 NBA Finals
Boston Celtics: Paul Pierce (drafted 10th)
Los Angeles Lakers: Kobe Bryant (drafted 13th)

2009 NBA Finals
Los Angeles Lakers: Kobe Bryant (drafted 13th)
Orlando Magic: Dwight Howard (drafted 1st)

2010 NBA Finals
Los Angeles Lakers: Kobe Bryant (drafted 13th)
Boston Celtics: Paul Pierce (drafted 10th)

2011 NBA Finals
Dallas Mavericks: Dirk Nowitzki (drafted 9th)
Miami Heat: LeBron James (FA)

2012 NBA Finals
Miami Heat: LeBron James (FA)
Oklahoma City Thunder: Kevin Durant (drafted 2nd)

2013 NBA Finals
Miami Heat: LeBron James (FA)
San Antonio Spurs: Tim Duncan (drafted 1st)

2014 NBA Finals
San Antonio Spurs: Tim Duncan (drafted 1st)
Miami Heat: LeBron James (FA)

2015 NBA Finals
Golden State Warriors: Stephen Curry (drafted 7th)
Cleveland Cavaliers: LeBron James (FA)

2016 NBA Finals
Cleveland Cavaliers: LeBron James (FA)
Golden State Warriors: Stephen Curry (drafted 7th)

2017 NBA Finals
Golden State Warriors: Stephen Curry (drafted 7th)
Cleveland Cavaliers: LeBron James (FA)

2018 NBA Finals
Golden State Warriors: Stephen Curry (drafted 7th)
Cleveland Cavaliers: LeBron James (FA)

2019 NBA Finals
Toronto Raptors: Kawhi Leonard (trade)
Golden State Warriors: Stephen Curry (drafted 7th)

2020 NBA Finals
Los Angeles Lakers: LeBron James (FA)
Miami Heat: Jimmy Butler (FA / Trade (SNT)

2021 NBA Finals
Milwaukee Bucks: Giannis Antetokounmpo (15th pick)
Phoenix Suns: Devin Booker (13th pick)

2022 NBA Finals
Golden State Warriors: Stephen Curry (drafted 7th)
Boston Celtics: Jayson Tatum (drafted 3rd)

2023 NBA Finals
Denver Nuggets: Nikola Jokić (drafted 41st)
Miami Heat: Jimmy Butler (FA / Trade (SNT)

2024 NBA Finals
Dallas Mavericks: Luka Doncic (drafted 3rd)
Boston Celtics: Jayson Tatum (drafted 3rd)

So for 50 cases of NBA finals.

Drafted top 5 - 13 times
Drafted rest of 1st round - 16 times
Drafted 2nd round - 1 time
FA - 14 times
Trade - 5 times

(I'm missing one plus I should remove duplicates)

[YogurtProducer]

Of the last 20 years, take the top 4 champions contenders each year. It would be interesting to see where their 1 option came from.

Was it via their draft pick in the top 5?
Was it their draft pick later?
Did they sign or trade for it?
Was the player they traded or signed for a top 5 pick?

You already did it I see above me, but

https://imgur.com/D7tprOm (why cant i just use the IMG thing to have this show up?)

Last 20 years broken down into 5 year "eras". Some really tough ones to gauge. Is Jayson Tatum a "draft - top 5" or is that more of a "trade". It is considering BOS did not need to tank the same.

Same with like Kawhi. Technically drafted @ #15 but he was traded for on draft night.

Overall, it shows what we expect. the 1st OVR is likely the best place to find players, but you AT BEST have a 14% chance at that even if everything goes right and you get the lottery balls. When you take into consideration your ability to find that "guy" via a later lottery pick, and the continued "chance" to get that #1 pick I really feel like from an "expected outcome" standpoint that tanking to try and ensure the #1 pick is not even close to the "optimal" path to team building.

AND - we can see there is a shift away from the #1 pick in the last decade (but an upwards shift in the top 5 pick), and movement towards trade, free agency, and other "unsusual" paths (such as late lottery or non lottery 1sts)

[ItsDanger]

I've been told Presti is a mediocre GM.

I've been told it was mostly luck due to a trade.

It absolutely was

Right place right time for sure, but that was a team that won 47/48/49 in 3 years with a Russ/PG13 core and lost in the first round 3 straight years.

He did exactly what you claim to hate in a team and got absolutely **** lucky LAC decided to trade them a future MVP coming off a rookie season and a bucnh more assets.

If someone would have offered us that for Siakam in 2022 we would have taken that to.

He traded an older established star for a rookie with big upside plus a boatload of picks and this is what I hate? Why would I hate that when I'm always talking up rebuilding? Your responses have devolved into irrational rants. Stop replying to me

[YogurtProducer]

I've been told it was mostly luck due to a trade.

It absolutely was

Right place right time for sure, but that was a team that won 47/48/49 in 3 years with a Russ/PG13 core and lost in the first round 3 straight years.

He did exactly what you claim to hate in a team and got absolutely **** lucky LAC decided to trade them a future MVP coming off a rookie season and a bucnh more assets.

If someone would have offered us that for Siakam in 2022 we would have taken that to.

He traded an older established star for a rookie with big upside plus a boatload of picks and this is what I hate? Why would I hate that when I'm always talking up rebuilding? Your responses have devolved into irrational rants. Stop replying to me

Read my guy. What he did for 3 years prior to the trade is exactly what you hate. But somehow it is different there because you know, reasons you cannot explain.

OKC tread-milled longer, harder, and had less success post KD (pre rebuild) than TOR did post Kawhi (pre rebuild).

Nothing I am saying is irrational, nor is it ranting.

[ItsDanger]

It absolutely was

Right place right time for sure, but that was a team that won 47/48/49 in 3 years with a Russ/PG13 core and lost in the first round 3 straight years.

He did exactly what you claim to hate in a team and got absolutely **** lucky LAC decided to trade them a future MVP coming off a rookie season and a bucnh more assets.

If someone would have offered us that for Siakam in 2022 we would have taken that to.

He traded an older established star for a rookie with big upside plus a boatload of picks and this is what I hate? Why would I hate that when I'm always talking up rebuilding? Your responses have devolved into irrational rants. Stop replying to me

Read my guy. What he did for 3 years prior to the trade is exactly what you hate. But somehow it is different there because you know, reasons you cannot explain.

OKC tread-milled longer, harder, and had less success post KD (pre rebuild) than TOR did post Kawhi (pre rebuild).

Nothing I am saying is irrational, nor is it ranting.

That's your opinion. And I read it, I'm referring to a specific trade only. You, are the one extrapolating beyond to emphasize your agenda. Please don't reply any further.

[YogurtProducer]

He traded an older established star for a rookie with big upside plus a boatload of picks and this is what I hate? Why would I hate that when I'm always talking up rebuilding? Your responses have devolved into irrational rants. Stop replying to me

Read my guy. What he did for 3 years prior to the trade is exactly what you hate. But somehow it is different there because you know, reasons you cannot explain.

OKC tread-milled longer, harder, and had less success post KD (pre rebuild) than TOR did post Kawhi (pre rebuild).

Nothing I am saying is irrational, nor is it ranting.

I
That's your opinion. And I read it, I'm referring to a specific trade only. You, are the one extrapolating beyond to emphasize your agenda.

I am simply stating you hate tread-milling, and that is exactly what OKC did for years before the trade. Just like what TOR did post-Kawhi (except, not as long, and ended worse due to not getting a godfather offer for Siakam like OKC did for PG13).

That is luck my guy.

Please don't reply any further.

I recommend not posting on a message board if you don't want replies. You dont get to spout nonsense and expect nothing to come back at you.