Bears Eat Our Faces! Loss vs MEM 12/7

[Fierce1]

Still not convinced that the live by the 3 die by the 3 philosophy is a sustainable tactic. No one on the team is a real knock down shooter except maybe PP. Come up with a better plan, Joe.

Didn't the Celtics already win a championship with that philosophy?

The Celtics even went 16-3 in the playoffs and finals.

And not a single series went to a Game 6.

That's one of the best postseason performance in NBA history.

[Fierce1]

Now we know why JT said they need to do it again so that the doubters will be silenced.

[Tyakack]

Still not convinced that the live by the 3 die by the 3 philosophy is a sustainable tactic. No one on the team is a real knock down shooter except maybe PP. Come up with a better plan, Joe.

How many more championships do you need to be convinced you think?

[MaxwellSmart]

Kornet Sucked horribly tonight.

[Fierce1]

Still not convinced that the live by the 3 die by the 3 philosophy is a sustainable tactic. No one on the team is a real knock down shooter except maybe PP. Come up with a better plan, Joe.

How many more championships do you need to be convinced you think?

Maybe 3?

Live by the 3, die by the 3, so you must win 3?

[ConstableGeneva]

Don't want to put it on one or two guys. But clearly, Grizzlies defensive strategy worked.

Holiday usage rate: 32.5%
Tatum usage rate: 22.9%

Turning Holiday into a 1st option is not ideal for us. Either Tatum wasn't aggressive enough to demand the ball or Holiday obliged Memphis too much.

Smart himself has only taken 26 shots in a game once as a Celtic. We didn't have Tatum and Brown, who both sat, and Porzingis back then.

[Fierce1]

Don't want to put it on one or two guys. But clearly, Grizzlies defensive strategy worked.

Holiday usage rate: 32.5%
Tatum usage rate: 22.9%

Turning Holiday into a 1st option is not ideal for us. Either Tatum wasn't aggressive enough to demand the ball or Holiday obliged Memphis too much.

Smart himself has only taken 26 shots in a game once as a Celtic. We didn't have Tatum and Brown, who both sat, and Porzingis back then.

It was Jrue obliging Memphis too much.

[Fencer reregistered]

7 different Celtics missed at least 1 FT each.

[ConstableGeneva]

Opponent eFG% when Cs shot less than 33% from 3:

v. MIL: 48.4% (W)
v. BKN: 46.0% (W)
v. WAS: 47.2% (W
v. CHA: 53.3% (W)
v. CHA: 56.6% (W)
v. ATL: 44.4% (W)
v. MEM: 58.0% (L)

Hold opponents to below league average shooting even when you shoot poorly from 3, more often than not (5-1), it's a W. We didn't do that vs. the Grizzlies. DEFENSE was lacking tonight. JJJ was scoring at will like he was Donovan Mitchell some games ago.

Fans are too obsessed with the amount of 3s we take that we're letting the defense off the hook.

[NYCelticsfan136]

Still not convinced that the live by the 3 die by the 3 philosophy is a sustainable tactic. No one on the team is a real knock down shooter except maybe PP. Come up with a better plan, Joe.

Didn't the Celtics already win a championship with that philosophy?

The Celtics even went 16-3 in the playoffs and finals.

And not a single series went to a Game 6.

That's one of the best postseason performance in NBA history.

They didn’t . They were actually balanced between the 3 point shot and hitting 2s. 18 out of 60 from 3 point land is yucky.

[ConstableGeneva]

Celtics when holding opponents to below league average defensive rating: 11-0. 8-5 otherwise.

"Why do we have 13 games where we're allowing above average offensive rating?" is the better question than "why are we taking so many threes?"

For perspective, the #1 defense OKC Thunder only have 6 such games and they're 2-4 in those.

[TheMartian]

Still not convinced that the live by the 3 die by the 3 philosophy is a sustainable tactic. No one on the team is a real knock down shooter except maybe PP. Come up with a better plan, Joe.

How many more championships do you need to be convinced you think?

You really think that the rate they are chucking 3s is sustainable? The championship last year had a good mixture of luck involved hence the playoff record. Wasn't this game against the Grizz proof that relying on the 3 ball only works until it doesn't? They need to have a different look if their 3s are not falling. Unless you're saying they don't and they just need to keep chucking?

[return2glory]

That was an bad loss. Not a fun game to watch.

3 reasons we lost.

1. Jrue and Tatum combined for 14 for 47 from the field including 5-27 from 3. Tatum was 1-10 from 3, Jrue 4-17, but he had 4 3s go in and out.
2. Lazy basketball. Jacking up 60 3s. Make the defense work. I get it was 5 games in 7 nights, but that's why you have a bench. This was a game where Peterson, Springer and Tillman could have each played 8-10 minutes a game and brought some much needed energy.
3. Coach Joe. Just a terrible coaching job. No adjustments. JJ destroyed the Celtics and Joe had no answers. Here is a hint Joe, Go watch some tape on Tillman defending Anthony Davis a few years ago in the playoff with the Grizzlies against the Lakers. The double big with KP and Queta worked. The double big with Kornet and Queta did not work because Queta was tired at that point in the game and Queta and Kornet on the floor gives us no spacing.

[TheMartian]

Still not convinced that the live by the 3 die by the 3 philosophy is a sustainable tactic. No one on the team is a real knock down shooter except maybe PP. Come up with a better plan, Joe.

Didn't the Celtics already win a championship with that philosophy?

The Celtics even went 16-3 in the playoffs and finals.

And not a single series went to a Game 6.

That's one of the best postseason performance in NBA history.

They didn’t . They were actually balanced between the 3 point shot and hitting 2s. 18 out of 60 from 3 point land is yucky.

He's blind to the fact that in each playoff round, the Celtics' opponents were missing key players, stars even. Hence the 16-3 record. But hey, if he thinks chucking 3s is the way to go, good for him.

They need to wake up on the defensive end, and have more diversity on offense. But that's just my opinion.

[TheMartian]

Opponent eFG% when Cs shot less than 33% from 3:

v. MIL: 48.4% (W)
v. BKN: 46.0% (W)
v. WAS: 47.2% (W
v. CHA: 53.3% (W)
v. CHA: 56.6% (W)
v. ATL: 44.4% (W)
v. MEM: 58.0% (L)

Hold opponents to below league average shooting even when you shoot poorly from 3, more often than not (5-1), it's a W. We didn't do that vs. the Grizzlies. DEFENSE was lacking tonight. JJJ was scoring at will like he was Donovan Mitchell some games ago.

Fans are too obsessed with the amount of 3s we take that we're letting the defense off the hook.

I'm definitely not happy with the amount of 3s the Celtics are shooting, but that's on the coach.

The defensive effort on the other hand, that's more on the players, and that's a bigger issue, IMO.

[return2glory]

Zombie Smart should have been yanked after the first quarter for PP
Tatum/Brown outplayed strongly by JJJ/Morant.
Another mediocre performance by White - he needs some time off.

Agree 100% that White needs some time off. I said the same thing to one of my friends before the game. He has been in a slump the last 3 games. Joe needs to realize this team went deep in the playoffs to win it all and Tatum, Jrue and White also played in the Olympics. I don't like that Joe can't find 5-10 minutes a game for guys like Peterson and Springer.

[NYCelticsfan136]

Still not convinced that the live by the 3 die by the 3 philosophy is a sustainable tactic. No one on the team is a real knock down shooter except maybe PP. Come up with a better plan, Joe.

How many more championships do you need to be convinced you think?

You really think that the rate they are chucking 3s is sustainable? The championship last year had a good mixture of luck involved hence the playoff record. Wasn't this game against the Grizz proof that relying on the 3 ball only works until it doesn't? They need to have a different look if their 3s are not falling. Unless you're saying they don't and they just need to keep chucking?

Look at this stats right now. They have attempted 1,234 3 pointers in 24 games. That’s an average of more than 51 3 pointers per game lol. They have only taken 951 2s. At this pace they made end up with more 3 point shots than 2 pointers. I don’t like the ratio. That’s almost a 1 to 3rd ratio.

I think the matchup with Dallas was perfect.

[ConstableGeneva]

Opponent eFG% when Cs shot less than 33% from 3:

v. MIL: 48.4% (W)
v. BKN: 46.0% (W)
v. WAS: 47.2% (W
v. CHA: 53.3% (W)
v. CHA: 56.6% (W)
v. ATL: 44.4% (W)
v. MEM: 58.0% (L)

Hold opponents to below league average shooting even when you shoot poorly from 3, more often than not (5-1), it's a W. We didn't do that vs. the Grizzlies. DEFENSE was lacking tonight. JJJ was scoring at will like he was Donovan Mitchell some games ago.

Fans are too obsessed with the amount of 3s we take that we're letting the defense off the hook.

I'm definitely not happy with the amount of 3s the Celtics are shooting, but that's on the coach.

The defensive effort on the other hand, that's more on the players, and that's a bigger issue, IMO.

To me, the three-ball is a constant. Celtics will not change their identity in that regard. Whether we're taking 40 or 60, fans will find ways to point to it in a loss.

This is too simplistic but... (with amount of threes being a constant)

Cs are average shooting their threes + play stingy defense => usually a double-digit win
Cs are above average shooting 3s + play stingy defense => blowout win
Cs are below average shooting 3s + play stingy defense => close win
Cs are below average shooting 3s + subpar defense => close loss

The high volume of 3s gives the Celtics a high floor against most teams. What will raise their ceiling is their defense specifically limiting opponent 3s.

Even after the loss, the Celtics have a 19.26-point advantage PER GAME against their opponents because of the amount of threes they take.

[redslastlaugh]

I'm definitely not happy with the amount of 3s the Celtics are shooting, but that's on the coach.

I think there’s like a fundamental difference among fans on the question of 3PTA. To some fans there are not “bad” 3PTA because offensive output is largely a function of how many 3s you attempt. An NBA shooter can make pretty much any 3PTA so you are largely winning the battle if you attempt more than your opponent.

And other fans argue that if a 3PTA looks like a bad attempt then that consists a bad possession. A bad 3PTA doesn’t work the defense, or is early in the shot clock, or is too far behind the line, or is contested by the defender or whatever … the viewer goes, “that’s a bad shot” … a fundamentally bad shot, it doesn’t matter that it could be worth 3 points, you shouldn’t take it.

Joe Mazzulla is a coach who believes that attempting more 3PTA than the opponent is important of itself.

“I know you guys all think it’s funny,” Mazzulla said. “But the 3-point attempt rate is the most important stat in the game of basketball because of the pace of play, shot selection, and the ability to go on runs. When you get outshot by 14 threes, the potential points there are crucial because it gives you way more shots and way more opportunities.”

So I don’t know that I’ve heard Joe talk about avoiding bad 3PTAs because almost every 3PTA is a good attempt if your prime goal is to have the highest 3-point attempt rate possible. So anyway, most longtime Celtics fan would not say “3PTA rate is the most important stat in basketball” and so this is the fundamental tension among the fans.

I’ve been a Celtics fan since I was a kid in the Bird era and I personally would NOT say that 3 point attempt rate is the most important stat in basketball. Tonight’s game we took 60 3PTA and Memphis took 33 3PTA and I thought Memphis played much better than we did

[TheMartian]

Opponent eFG% when Cs shot less than 33% from 3:

v. MIL: 48.4% (W)
v. BKN: 46.0% (W)
v. WAS: 47.2% (W
v. CHA: 53.3% (W)
v. CHA: 56.6% (W)
v. ATL: 44.4% (W)
v. MEM: 58.0% (L)

Hold opponents to below league average shooting even when you shoot poorly from 3, more often than not (5-1), it's a W. We didn't do that vs. the Grizzlies. DEFENSE was lacking tonight. JJJ was scoring at will like he was Donovan Mitchell some games ago.

Fans are too obsessed with the amount of 3s we take that we're letting the defense off the hook.

I'm definitely not happy with the amount of 3s the Celtics are shooting, but that's on the coach.

The defensive effort on the other hand, that's more on the players, and that's a bigger issue, IMO.

To me, the three-ball is a constant. Celtics will not change their identity in that regard. Whether we're taking 40 or 60, fans will find ways to point to it in a loss.

This is too simplistic but... (with amount of threes being a constant)

Cs are average shooting their threes + play stingy defense => usually a double-digit win
Cs are above average shooting 3s + play stingy defense => blowout win
Cs are below average shooting 3s + play stingy defense => close win
Cs are below average shooting 3s + subpar defense => close loss

The high volume of 3s gives the Celtics a high floor against most teams. What will raise their ceiling is their defense specifically limiting opponent 3s.

Even after the loss, the Celtics have a 19.26-point advantage PER GAME against their opponents because of the amount of threes they take.

I can live with them chucking 3s if they make it up with defense, since a 3pt chucking offense means less physicality on the offensive end. The problem is, sometimes when they shoot poorly it affects their defense as well.