PG: That Sucked

[8516knicks]

Even with Prescious back, we feel THIN. Last year without Randle, we had IHART and/or DDV to step up. Now without KAT we've got...Hukporti & Sims???

[Gravy]

The problem was with KAT out, Sims and Hukporti are barely NBA players and Precious is still rusty. Last season we would either have Mitch or IHart.

We really only have a 6 man rotation right now without KAT, Cam and Mitch.

[robillionaire]

Even with Prescious back, we feel THIN. Last year without Randle, we had IHART and/or DDV to step up. Now without KAT we've got...Hukporti & Sims???

Yep our bench is already terrible but that’s really amplified with towns out. Our entire offense has to adapt to having a center who can’t spread the floor or score points. Would be ok when it’s bench minutes but rough for the whole game. So basically this is a lottery team without towns. Not even joking. You aren’t starting the likes of Sims and making the playoffs. We should be doing anything we can to avoid putting sims or hukporti on the court. Precious coming back helps that and I like how we opened the 2nd half with him at the 5.

But here’s another secret, Precious also kinda sucks and he’s on a 1 year deal and not part of the future of the team either. Mitch could shore up the backup spot or could be traded for more depth. Having Payne out also hurt from a guard standpoint but he’s also someone on a 1 year deal who shouldn’t make or break a game for us. Dadiet probably won’t pan out as an NBA player. Kolek is the only guy I have hope in being a serviceable backup in the long term. We are going to have long term depth problems since we went all in with 5 picks for a no 3 and no D role player who apparently chooses when he wants to play defense

[robillionaire]

Can someone tell me why Mikal takes wild fadeaway mid and long range shots that should probably only be attempted by prime Kobe Bryant when he’s visibly struggling to make even open shots. Does this team even watch film?

[KnixinSix]

The biggest issue is this team can't play consistently dominant defense without being able to mix in a dominant rim protector. That is what is needed more than anything else right now.

If Thibs is going to remain coach that is what they need more than anything. If its Robinson hope and pray he comes back soon and then when he does somehow he remains healthy. Don't forget before he got hurt some were calling him a likely DPOY candidate.

That kind of gravity down low allows the perimeter defenders to sag in much less because they don't have to worry about getting beat with him in the middle.

It will make a HUGE difference. Huge. Right now when this team is on offensively they just basically outscore the opponent with barrages and some stretches of good defense mixed in.

Last year the defense was consistently dominant post OG when BOTH OG and an elite rim protector (Mitch or IHart) were on the floor together.

[thebuzzardman]

Boston gave up 120 to this very same team just a few nights ago. They let them shoot 20-39 from 3. We gave up 18-36 to them from three. Difference is Boston scored 130 and we scored 111. Boston is also getting torched by Memphis as we speak.

But yes sure it’s Thibs and scheme lmao. If we shoot better and make some free throws, we win even without KAT and our poor defenders.

Then the problem isn't Thibs and it's the talent. Either way the team is mid.

Oh well, maybe next year.

Defensively the team is very mid. Offensively they have shown they can be very very good. Our success depends on how good we can continue to be offensively

Thibs couldn't solve Detroit. How's he going to solve better defensive teams?
He won't

[Jalen Bluntson]

Brunson(32)/Deuce(16)
Mikal(32)/Deuce(16)
Hart(38)/Pac(10)
OG(32)/Precious(16)
KAT(32)/Precious(16)

It's not rocket science. That's an 8 man rotation and no one plays more than 32 minutes except Hart at 38. Thibs is a moron,

Deuce is a wing in Thibs' eyes. All the minutes Deuce got tonight were alongside Brunson, not backing him up. Maybe Deuce got a few seconds at the point tonight, but not even a full minute. Deuce is gonna get his 26+ minutes backing up Mikal, Hart, and OG.

We need Payne back cause it seems like him and Brunson are the only two that Thibs can trust as a primary ball handler for an extended period of time.

Also, did Sims anger Thibs tonight? To completely give up on him after those 6 minutes of play is unusual.

With Payne it would be even easier to not play guys 40mpg. I could have put Sims and/or Huk or even Kolek in there too for a few minutes. I was just showing how he could get away with his 8 man rotations without running players into the ground and looking gassed at the end of the games. It's not that difficult to figure out.

There is no reason not to to trust Deuce just because you don't have Cam. Deuce/Hart would probably be sufficient enough to handle things for a few minutes.

Thibs refusal to trust his bench is a problem. He never has any issues after half the team goes down to use his bench. Maybe try a little more of a preventative approach to these things? Could be a good idea moving forward.

[thebuzzardman]

On another note, I'm all aboard the KAT for MVP train.

It's Jokic and it's not even close

[KnixinSix]

The problem was with KAT out, Sims and Hukporti are barely NBA players and Precious is still rusty. Last season we would either have Mitch or IHart.

We really only have a 6 man rotation right now without KAT, Cam and Mitch.

Our starters are averaging like 92+ a game by themselves. Thats amazing but also indicative of a bench issue. Not having KAT and Cam last night was also a big reason we lost.

[KnixinSix]

Brunson(32)/Deuce(16)
Mikal(32)/Deuce(16)
Hart(38)/Pac(10)
OG(32)/Precious(16)
KAT(32)/Precious(16)

It's not rocket science. That's an 8 man rotation and no one plays more than 32 minutes except Hart at 38. Thibs is a moron,

Deuce is a wing in Thibs' eyes. All the minutes Deuce got tonight were alongside Brunson, not backing him up. Maybe Deuce got a few seconds at the point tonight, but not even a full minute. Deuce is gonna get his 26+ minutes backing up Mikal, Hart, and OG.

We need Payne back cause it seems like him and Brunson are the only two that Thibs can trust as a primary ball handler for an extended period of time.

Also, did Sims anger Thibs tonight? To completely give up on him after those 6 minutes of play is unusual.

With Payne it would be even easier to not play guys 40mpg. I could have put Sims and/or Huk or even Kolek in there too for a few minutes. I was just showing how he could get away with his 8 man rotations without running players into the ground and looking gassed at the end of the games. It's not that difficult to figure out.

There is no reason not to to trust Deuce just because you don't have Cam. Deuce/Hart would probably be sufficient enough to handle things for a few minutes.

Thibs refusal to trust his bench is a problem. He never has any issues after half the team goes down to use his bench. Maybe try a little more of a preventative approach to these things? Could be a good idea moving forward.

Truthfully as I study this more factoring in Thibs tendancies: I think we are going to go after one of Richards or Kessler while KEEPING Mitchell Robinson.

I think Thibs system is screaming out I need that elite rim protector more than anything else. If you keep Mitch AND you add one of Kessler or Richards you almost have what you have last year again defensively when we had BOTH IHart and Mitch.

Richards (5M) + filler for Kolek, Dadiet and 2 2nd rd picks
Kessler for Kolek, Dadiet and 1-2 FRPs

[thebuzzardman]

He’s taken that Jerami Grant route where he was ideal as a 3D role player but wanted to become more offensive minded and focus on scoring. Which is cool if you really have grown into an elite scorer but he hasn’t. His ball handling is very shaky, he has little to no ability to create separation and now even his shot selection is suspect at times. Out of all of our starters he’s probably been guilty of taking the worst shots and last night was more example of it especially without KAT.

It’s pretty remarkable that our offense has been as good as it has been despite the lack of ball handling in the starting lineup. Most if not all teams feature multiple ball handlers in the lineup.

All five players are good enough ball handlers. I don’t think any team features that many in their lineups tbh.

We have one guy in the starting lineup who can bring the ball up in a full court press. Most teams have guys at the 2 and even 3 or 4 who can function as lead guards in an offense and play make. We don’t

Mikal, Hart and OG are all fine as tertiary ballhandlers.
It's the true secondary guy \ co-lead that is missing

[thebuzzardman]

I'll skip watching games for a while. Team is too mid.

[Jalen Bluntson]

The problem was with KAT out, Sims and Hukporti are barely NBA players and Precious is still rusty. Last season we would either have Mitch or IHart.

We really only have a 6 man rotation right now without KAT, Cam and Mitch.

We didn't have Mitch or Randle or OG for the majority last season. We had Shart/Hart/Precious/Sims as the FC rotation with two of them playing damn near 48mpg.

I don't care who is out. You play the roster you have. Shrinking the rotation as much as he does is ridiculous.

[knicksNOTslick]

All five players are good enough ball handlers. I don’t think any team features that many in their lineups tbh.

We have one guy in the starting lineup who can bring the ball up in a full court press. Most teams have guys at the 2 and even 3 or 4 who can function as lead guards in an offense and play make. We don’t

Mikal, Hart and OG are all fine as tertiary ballhandlers.
It's the true secondary guy \ co-lead that is missing

Yes the starting lineup is fine when they're at 100 percent. The problem is when KAT is out, that starts to expose the other guys because Towns isn't there to create space for them. Then with the thin bench in last night's game, the Knicks couldn't overcome the deficit.

[Jalen Bluntson]

We clearly need 10 starters for Thibs to trust his bench. Awesome.

[Buttah304]

Knicks had: More points in the paint, more steals, more blocks, more points in transition, more second chance points and less turnovers

It’s just become so glaringly obvious that our struggle defending the 3PT shot is a schematic issue. This isn’t something that you can attribute to one player. I also don’t believe it’s as simple as “just close out hard” - if you watch closely you’ll see a handful of occasions where our players backs are quite literally turned to the 3PT shooters. It’s baffling to me.

Historically, everyone knows that Thibs has been obsessed with closing off the paint valve. If you don’t believe me, watch his somewhat stoic reaction on the sideline to giving up a 3 vs when we concede a layup/back door cut. He visibly blows a gasket on the sideline to the point where it looks like he needs a medical timeout.

As far as Precious & Mitch coming back, sure that’s going to help our interior defense. Statistically speaking, and narratives aside (even though they are fun), that’s not where we are struggling. We are very middle of the pack with respect to points in the paint given up and DFG% in that very same area.

Having said that, we are 29th in the NBA in defensive 3PT % and 29th in 3PT attempts conceded per game.

We make it very easy for the opposing coaching staff. We’re going give up a ton of 3s, and statistically speaking guys are gonna hit them at a well above average clip.

IMO, Cade dropped 29 but I would have lived with him going for 42 so long as we were utterly hellbent on defending 25+ feet out.

Reality: My gut tells me that we are going to continue to put 2 on the ball and overreact to every single driver. We are way too reactive of a defense when our principles should be based on being proactive with more of a switching philosophy.

[Gravy]

The problem was with KAT out, Sims and Hukporti are barely NBA players and Precious is still rusty. Last season we would either have Mitch or IHart.

We really only have a 6 man rotation right now without KAT, Cam and Mitch.

We didn't have Mitch or Randle or OG for the majority last season. We had Shart/Hart/Precious/Sims as the FC rotation with two of them playing damn near 48mpg.

I don't care who is out. You play the roster you have. Shrinking the rotation as much as he does is ridiculous.

Their record last season without Mitch, Ihart and Randle was 1-5.

You need actual good players to win in the league. According to fans a starting lineup of Precious, Huk, Sims, Dadiet and Kolek and g-leaguers should be able to get to the finals with the right schemes and low minutes.

Why get Towns at all if we should be winning the same amount of games without him and Sims in his place

[KnixinSix]

Knicks had: More points in the paint, more steals, more blocks, more points in transition, more second chance points and less turnovers

It’s just become so glaringly obvious that our struggle defending the 3PT shot is a schematic issue. This isn’t something that you can attribute to one player. I also don’t believe it’s as simple as “just close out hard” - if you watch closely you’ll see a handful of occasions where our players backs are quite literally turned to the 3PT shooters. It’s baffling to me.

Historically, everyone knows that Thibs has been obsessed with closing off the paint valve. If you don’t believe me, watch his somewhat stoic reaction on the sideline to giving up a 3 vs when we concede a layup/back door cut. He visibly blows a gasket on the sideline to the point where it looks like he needs a medical timeout.

As far as Precious & Mitch coming back, sure that’s going to help our interior defense. Statistically speaking, and narratives aside (even though they are fun), that’s not where we are struggling. We are very middle of the pack with respect to points in the paint given up and DFG% in that very same area.

Having said that, we are 29th in the NBA in defensive 3PT % and 29th in 3PT attempts conceded per game.

We make it very easy for the opposing coaching staff. We’re going give up a ton of 3s, and statistically speaking guys are gonna hit them at a well above average clip.

IMO, Cade dropped 29 but I would have lived with him going for 42 so long as we were utterly hellbent on defending 25+ feet out.

Reality: My gut tells me that we are going to continue to put 2 on the ball and overreact to every single driver. We are way too reactive of a defense when our principles should be based on being proactive with more of a switching philosophy.

When we had a DPOY type underneath the basket in Mitch or IHart.....the perimeter defenders sagged less in the paint and were up on the 3 ball.

If we keep Thibs we need the defensive stud 7 footer under the basket....Im telling you.

[Buttah304]

Knicks had: More points in the paint, more steals, more blocks, more points in transition, more second chance points and less turnovers

It’s just become so glaringly obvious that our struggle defending the 3PT shot is a schematic issue. This isn’t something that you can attribute to one player. I also don’t believe it’s as simple as “just close out hard” - if you watch closely you’ll see a handful of occasions where our players backs are quite literally turned to the 3PT shooters. It’s baffling to me.

Historically, everyone knows that Thibs has been obsessed with closing off the paint valve. If you don’t believe me, watch his somewhat stoic reaction on the sideline to giving up a 3 vs when we concede a layup/back door cut. He visibly blows a gasket on the sideline to the point where it looks like he needs a medical timeout.

As far as Precious & Mitch coming back, sure that’s going to help our interior defense. Statistically speaking, and narratives aside (even though they are fun), that’s not where we are struggling. We are very middle of the pack with respect to points in the paint given up and DFG% in that very same area.

Having said that, we are 29th in the NBA in defensive 3PT % and 29th in 3PT attempts conceded per game.

We make it very easy for the opposing coaching staff. We’re going give up a ton of 3s, and statistically speaking guys are gonna hit them at a well above average clip.

IMO, Cade dropped 29 but I would have lived with him going for 42 so long as we were utterly hellbent on defending 25+ feet out.

Reality: My gut tells me that we are going to continue to put 2 on the ball and overreact to every single driver. We are way too reactive of a defense when our principles should be based on being proactive with more of a switching philosophy.

When we had a DPOY type underneath the basket in Mitch or IHart.....the perimeter defenders sagged less in the paint and were up on the 3 ball.

If we keep Thibs we need the defensive stud 7 footer under the basket....Im telling you.

We don’t have iHart or Mitch and Precious just came back. I think I’m just a big believer in adjusting to your personnel. I’m less of a square peg round hole kind of guy.

[Gravy]

Can someone tell me why Mikal takes wild fadeaway mid and long range shots that should probably only be attempted by prime Kobe Bryant when he’s visibly struggling to make even open shots. Does this team even watch film?

He had Monty Williams during his developmental years in Phoenix probably letting him do whatever. Look at the difference with the Pistons under Monty vs now.