What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do?

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AleksandarN
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#61 » by AleksandarN » Sun Dec 8, 2024 10:48 pm

JustBuzzin wrote:Win games stop making excuses for Jokic. This core group won a championship just 2 years ago.

If you ask me they just overrated because people thought they would be a dynasty because they had Jokic.

Also as great as Jokic is he sucks on defense. They basically have to outscore teams. That team needs some defensive players.

Lmao he doesn’t suck on defense. You don’t even watch Denver’s games. You are hilarious. Jokic is in the top 5 in deflections per game. Has over 2.5 stocks per game. Yes he is not good at rim protection. But in other areas of defense he is quite good. At causing steals deflections in the lane. He also reads plays very well on defense. The best rebounder in the game. To say he sucks on defense just shows your ignorance.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#62 » by Lala870 » Sun Dec 8, 2024 10:50 pm

xchange55 wrote:I've been saying Murray is overrated for the past 2 years and I got nothing but down votes. I said he never made an all star team and all I heard was well the west is stacked and he's better than some all stars. I guess it's just how the wind blows.

I think the Nuggest miss KCP. Good defender and perfect fit for their roster as a floor spacing 3p shooter.


Granted I went a long time without watching nuggets live due to the situation with Altitude TV, but historically I hated watching him play. Pre bubble Nuggets playoff success was soley because of Jokic and Millsapp.

Hes always been inconsistent and plays out of control. A plethora of better guards in the league.

A lot of Nuggets fans it seems let the bubble series cloud their judgement. That Utah series was the worst thing to happen to Denver since it gave fans the impression Murray was a HOF guard.

I remember it was so bad at one point I thought Nuggets trading for D-Lo would elevate them to contender status
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#63 » by Exp0sed » Sun Dec 8, 2024 10:51 pm

Wolfgang630 wrote:Zeke naji has the 5TH highest salary on the team and he doesn’t play. This is vastly on Calvin booth. His mentality completely screwed this situation and he put this team in a corner where it’s hard to make moves. It all starts with him because he gave Jamal the extension. Where is the bench??? Where is the backup Center Jokic has never had??? Where is the 3 point shooting?? This is all on him.

Jamal gets the next blame because he is the number 2 guy and has completely regressed. What happened to him? Forget the contract he’s not playing at an even regular season level. And he’s already had arrogance issues. He’s never been a great number 2 and a couple years in the playoffs he managed to pull off looking like Kobe doesn’t speak for who he’s been overall in his career.

The bench is next, but that goes back to Calvin Booth. Malone should be after that for his weak development and getting carried massively by Jokic that he gets little criticism. How is your team barely shooting threes in this era? I don’t like how teams shoot this volume, but it is what it is and this team playing like a team from 15-20 years ago on three point volume ain’t going to cut it.


Nnaji is really bad and always injured anyway, just like Cancar. there's no reason for Booth not to make moves, so yeah, you have to give a pick to get rid of NNaji of Cancar but either you get some1 playable back, or gain some flexibility. if you make a series of small moves with nice gains they can add up to a big move impact, or eventually make such a move possible

its stupid to have those two guys on the roster, there's no excuse for that. not under the current CBA and with such a small margin of error and room to work with

as for 3's, Jokic makes that strategy alot more palatable imo. in their championship season they were 21st in 3PA, in the bottom 3rd. you can def still win taking less 3's but you have to play well, on both ends of the floor. Nuggets had a pretty sturdy defense when they really tried (a couple of seasons ago) but it has fallen off a cliff this year

I wrote that well before these embrassing losses, Murray's extention pretty much killed the Nuggets window because he's unmovable now, maybe they can trade him for some usable spare parts to add depth but that'd be pretty brutal either way

Malone def deserves alot of blame he's a moron who got lucky when they drafted Jokic. I also don't except the fact that it's all on the FO, a coach has a say too, especially a long tenured coach like Malone. how is it possible that the Nuggets don't have a backup C for like 3-4 years now? bang on the table of the GM's office and demand to get some warm bodies, at least

the Huff thing is inexecusable honestly, didn't even get a chance despite DAJ being the only backup

however, Jokic is basically the de-facto coach half of the time and Malone defers to him on and off the court more and more, firing Malone won't really move the needle as they are screwed with Murray anyway (and MPJ, tho he is at least very positive, puts in the effort and is available so he's not the problem, overpaid as he is).

alot of vets would be happy to play with Jokic, some even in Europe but the GM seems to be asleep...
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#64 » by JustBuzzin » Sun Dec 8, 2024 11:04 pm

AleksandarN wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:Win games stop making excuses for Jokic. This core group won a championship just 2 years ago.

If you ask me they just overrated because people thought they would be a dynasty because they had Jokic.

Also as great as Jokic is he sucks on defense. They basically have to outscore teams. That team needs some defensive players.

Lmao he doesn’t suck on defense. You don’t even watch Denver’s games. You are hilarious. Jokic is in the top 5 in deflections per game. Has over 2.5 stocks per game. Yes he is not good at rim protection. But in other areas of defense he is quite good. At causing steals deflections in the lane. He also reads plays very well on defense. The best rebounder in the game. To say he sucks on defense just shows your ignorance.

Yeah sure bud. :roll:
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#65 » by AleksandarN » Sun Dec 8, 2024 11:09 pm

JustBuzzin wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:Win games stop making excuses for Jokic. This core group won a championship just 2 years ago.

If you ask me they just overrated because people thought they would be a dynasty because they had Jokic.

Also as great as Jokic is he sucks on defense. They basically have to outscore teams. That team needs some defensive players.

Lmao he doesn’t suck on defense. You don’t even watch Denver’s games. You are hilarious. Jokic is in the top 5 in deflections per game. Has over 2.5 stocks per game. Yes he is not good at rim protection. But in other areas of defense he is quite good. At causing steals deflections in the lane. He also reads plays very well on defense. The best rebounder in the game. To say he sucks on defense just shows your ignorance.

Yeah sure bud. :roll:

Good reply. Love having a one side discussion. Should expect nothing less from you.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#66 » by TheShow2021 » Sun Dec 8, 2024 11:10 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:Every member of the starting 5 still has a positive EPM, despite some of their individual struggles.

Collectively, Murray-Braun-Porter-Gordon-Jokic sport a +12.5 net rating 164 minutes of action. It's a healthy lineup.

But there's a steep decline after their 5 best players. Their 6th-ranked player is Westbrook with a -1.4 EPM. Then it gets even worse, and fast.

Basically, this suggests that Denver's starting 5 is fine, but that they have no depth and that their bench guys aren't even NBA players. Whenever their bench guys come in, their performance plummets.

The front office placed its bets on the wrong prospects in the draft, and losing KCP depleted their bench, by domino effect.

They need to trade their remaining draft picks and bench guys salaries for NBA players who can provide two-way play from their bench. They're not getting equal value for Murray or MPJ on the market.


But isn't this 12.5 net rating just because of Jokic?

this season w/o Jokic netRTG:
MPJ: -18.45
Braun: -6.35
Murray: -2.35 (way better than usual)
AG: 0. (26 minutes w/o Jokic)

If we go back to start of 2020/21 season:
Braun: -12.99
Murray: -8.82 (he was never great, injured or not)
AG: -6.37
MPJ: -3.69
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#67 » by DCasey91 » Sun Dec 8, 2024 11:11 pm

The two main problems is the two guys up top. The GM and the coach

You can't have the worst bench in the league going on 5 years. You also can't do a DOC and say welp it's Jokic or bust. **** me actually coach

Some imagination can go a lg way. You have small ball lineups. Play Gordon at the 5 + shooters & Westbrook. It's unprofessional

Watch Jokic will cover all the crap that goes on as he always does. But it's still crap at the end of the day.

Lmao at the defence thing it's like they don't watch basketball and check stat sheets.

You legit have a guy that can turn anyone into being playable alongside him, that doesn't mean you hard depend on him. More independency please ffs
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#68 » by Special_Puppy » Sun Dec 8, 2024 11:20 pm

Chuck Everett wrote:Frank Vogel and Mike Budenholzer got sacked and yet Malone is just untouchable in many people's eyes. People act like the guy is Pop or Kerr.


The issue is far more clearly the roster (which falls on the GM) rather than the coach.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#69 » by BigGargamel » Sun Dec 8, 2024 11:21 pm

AleksandarN wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:Win games stop making excuses for Jokic. This core group won a championship just 2 years ago.

If you ask me they just overrated because people thought they would be a dynasty because they had Jokic.

Also as great as Jokic is he sucks on defense. They basically have to outscore teams. That team needs some defensive players.

Lmao he doesn’t suck on defense. You don’t even watch Denver’s games. You are hilarious. Jokic is in the top 5 in deflections per game. Has over 2.5 stocks per game. Yes he is not good at rim protection. But in other areas of defense he is quite good. At causing steals deflections in the lane. He also reads plays very well on defense. The best rebounder in the game. To say he sucks on defense just shows your ignorance.


This is why I don't comment on random teams I don't watch. Half the dudes on this board think they're experts on all 30 teams. No one is. :lol:

The "Jokic is bad on defense" nonsense has been dispelled years ago.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#70 » by TheShow2021 » Sun Dec 8, 2024 11:22 pm

Nobody every mentions AG as a problem, but like MPJ and Jamal, he's also overpaid (just not by as much), especially at his age. They didn't seem to lose much with AG out and Peyton taking his place.

I think Jokic does better without a guy like AG occupying the dunker spot, and it's much better when the 4 is in the corner. The infamous 76ers free safety defense is only possible when you have a non shooting 4 occupying the dunker spot... and idiot Malone was very slow to adjust to this, but AG in the corner is not optimal anyways.

Ask yourself how AG would look on any of the other 29 teams...
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#71 » by MrPainfulTruth » Sun Dec 8, 2024 11:24 pm

AleksandarN wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:Lmao he doesn’t suck on defense. You don’t even watch Denver’s games. You are hilarious. Jokic is in the top 5 in deflections per game. Has over 2.5 stocks per game. Yes he is not good at rim protection. But in other areas of defense he is quite good. At causing steals deflections in the lane. He also reads plays very well on defense. The best rebounder in the game. To say he sucks on defense just shows your ignorance.

Yeah sure bud. :roll:

Good reply. Love having a one side discussion. Should expect nothing less from you.

You can easily figure out what fangroup these people come from. And once you figured that out there is zero benefit engaging in a "discussion" because its more of a cult than actual basketball fans.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#72 » by JustBuzzin » Sun Dec 8, 2024 11:27 pm

AleksandarN wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:Lmao he doesn’t suck on defense. You don’t even watch Denver’s games. You are hilarious. Jokic is in the top 5 in deflections per game. Has over 2.5 stocks per game. Yes he is not good at rim protection. But in other areas of defense he is quite good. At causing steals deflections in the lane. He also reads plays very well on defense. The best rebounder in the game. To say he sucks on defense just shows your ignorance.

Yeah sure bud. :roll:

Good reply. Love having a one side discussion. Should expect nothing less from you.

A centers job is to protect the rim. I watch Nuggets games. They are easy to score on because nobody is keeping them out of the paint. Jokic is the best player no doubt, but to act like he doesn't have weaknesses is crazy.

Y'all want to blame everything around Jokic when this core group won a championship just 2 years ago. People were calling them a potential dynasty. Maybe they got overrated because they have the best player in basketball?

I was never high on that roster. You need more depth. Also I'm never picking a team with Westbrook playing meaningful minutes in the playoffs to win a championship.

Cmon man take the homer glasses off. Your team needs depth. Trade Murray or MPJ for some complimentary pieces. You need some defenders to cover up your lack of paint protection.

If you want to talk basketball I'm here. I never ran from a debate. 8-)
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#73 » by DCasey91 » Sun Dec 8, 2024 11:40 pm

I'd like to introduce independency over variance when regards to support players.

Stating regardless of where they are the results speak for themselves

Here's something to ponder
(Old older)
Howard
McGee
Bogut
Gasol
Nance Jr

Vs
Drummond, Deandre, Cousins

It doesn't take much at all to recalibrate. Why this, it's because the first list consistently shows defensive up charge and it does not matter where they are. Simple

Positionally locked for Centers. The best bet is to get the player that does the thing consistently. Hartenstein... Presti is legit the best gamer in the league and its not even close to being close. He's the pro the rest bog average

I can point to dozens upon dozens examples of this, Green to Sixers, Roco to Wolves, Caruso the GOAT to whoever. Because teams run out wings they have at minimum 2 spots on the floor for which they can go to at all times, but that's loosely they have more than 2.

In a game it's better to have low variance high floor players (for what you want) for support then low floors high variance when the makeup is done for the team. It never should allow higher end usage when the usage should rightfully belong to the better players obviously.

As someone pointed out the starting unit is fine it's the rotations that's always caused massive dysfunction. Why? Because there's dysfunction across the board sans Jokic duh

Please use more common denominators thanks

KCP could go 0/7 for example and it does not matter as much vs a player that needs to 3 or 4 for to even be on the floor, this is the point im trying to make. It's the consistency on the other end that's what's more important.

I'm a massive holder on Onyeka and I have the history of backing up what I say. (Check the posts called for Brunson pre 2020 playoffs lol, wanted Pritch for ages etc, picked Ivey before college season when he averaged like 8 or 9, PWat after summits play, DD hype but I'm not surprised at all with him, I'll use the future thing with Tyrese Proctor who doesn't even register in rank 100#)

So yes I have massive bias but its the fact that this young player would be more valued at the Nuggets.

If you want some full on out there stuff. Ben Simmons and Lonzo Ball.

At the end of the day it's the GM's job to make a list that's actually functional. The time he's had at the helm is long enough.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#74 » by CIN-C-STAR » Sun Dec 8, 2024 11:40 pm

I actually think a desperation trade would be the worst thing they could do.
It sucks but the best thing they can probably do at this point is use this season to develop the bench. Give guys like Strawther a long leash and let him play himself into a legit rotation player.
I don't see what other choice they have. Selling low on Murray isn't going to make them a contender in all likelihood. Giving up MPJ for multiple pieces will just bury the bench guys more and hamstring their development, and would likely lower their ceiling as well.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#75 » by DCasey91 » Sun Dec 8, 2024 11:49 pm

Don't think a desperation trade will happen. Rotational trades? Yes that's a must. Work around the edges which are very rough at this point in time. Nanji and Saric should be gone
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#76 » by srhcan » Mon Dec 9, 2024 12:02 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:Every member of the starting 5 still has a positive EPM, despite some of their individual struggles.

Collectively, Murray-Braun-Porter-Gordon-Jokic sport a +12.5 net rating 164 minutes of action. It's a healthy lineup.

But there's a steep decline after their 5 best players. Their 6th-ranked player is Westbrook with a -1.4 EPM. Then it gets even worse, and fast.

Basically, this suggests that Denver's starting 5 is fine, but that they have no depth and that their bench guys aren't even NBA players. Whenever their bench guys come in, their performance plummets.

The front office placed its bets on the wrong prospects in the draft, and losing KCP depleted their bench, by domino effect.

They need to trade their remaining draft picks and bench guys salaries for NBA players who can provide two-way play from their bench. They're not getting equal value for Murray or MPJ on the market.

great post. The championship year they had a supersub Bruce Brown. They are missing someone like him to fill this role.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#77 » by BigGargamel » Mon Dec 9, 2024 12:06 am

I know it's hindsight because everyone else passed on the guy as well, but drafting Trayce Jackson-Davis instead of Pickett or Tyson sure would have been nice.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#78 » by AleksandarN » Mon Dec 9, 2024 12:33 am

BigGargamel wrote:I know it's hindsight because everyone else passed on the guy as well, but drafting Trayce Jackson-Davis instead of Pickett or Tyson sure would have been nice.

You think Malone would play him?
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#79 » by Lalouie » Mon Dec 9, 2024 12:36 am

schedule atl every game

everybody asks why about pretty much most every team

the macro of it is parity has blunted the heads of the whole league and there's going to be a bunch of all pros from the last 15yrs retiring in the next 2 or 3

but the one thing all the teams seem to have in common is INJURIES
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#80 » by Last Guardian » Mon Dec 9, 2024 12:41 am

They can have KCP back for free if they want him

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