Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

[winforlose]

So how long do we give DD?
Also, we can't have three players or even four players on the court for extended amounts of time that are zero threat to score. This is why I've brought up trades for Poole and Simons... People hate them, I get it, I'm not a huge fan myself, but both of them are pretty much instant offense and would take a ton of pressure off of Ant to create.

1- DD or NAW need to go,
2- Randle needs to go
3- If Minott is too dumb to play, he needs to go...no excuse for him to not be playing unless he is too dim to learn plays at this point. It's either Minott's brain or Finch's stubbornness.

1. Couldn’t disagree more. NAW is having his best season. If you really want to sell high on him that makes some sense. But needing to go implies discount and I would rather trust our ability to bring him back than give him away. As for DDV, we just gave up KAT for his contract. What we really need is to get him back on track.

2. Couldn’t agree more. Dude is basketball poison.

3. You realize he just turned 22. He barely played in college, and he doesn’t set the rotation. Finch needs to give him the room to learn and grow and develop into a rotation player. Instead he has a mini role with no room to learn or integrate. Those kinds of mistakes come from not playing enough with his teammates. Give him some run and take your lumps and you will get production.

[cmoss84]

Here me out: Scientists discover a massive meteor on our path that may or may not destroy Earth in 2-3 years. A HYSTERICAL Niokola Jokic calls a news conference immediately:
"Nikola demands trade to MN. Cold like Serbia, Mall of America good, and very nice goat farms."
Denver of course obliges, and gets a haul (including another Nikola).

Chi in: Michael Porter Jr., DD, Nnaji, Holmes II, Jesse Edwards
Chi out: Vucevic, Giddey, Dosunmu, Buzelis, E.J. Liddell, '25 FRP, '28 FRP
(1st apron hard capped)
White/Ball, Lavine, Porter Jr., Williams, Nnaji
White/Ball, DD, Holmes, Smith


Den in: Randle, Jaden, Vucevic, Giddey, Dosunmu, Buzelis, 2 FRP via Chi, 1 FRP & 1SRP via MN
Den out: Jokic, Porter Jr., Nnaji, Watson, Holmes, Trey Alexander
(2nd apron hard capped)
Dosunmu, Murray, Jaden, Gordon, Vucevic
Russell, Braun, Giddey, Randle, Jordan

MN in: Joker, E.J. Liddell, Trey Alexander
MN out: Randle, Jaden, DD, Edwards, '25 FRP (DET) and '25 SRP (UTAH)
(1st apron)
RD, ANT, NAZ, Miller, Joker OR Mike, ANT, NAZ, Joker, Rudy
Mike, NAW, TSJ, Minott, Rudy
Nix, Alexander, Liddell, Garza

sweet.

[Norseman79]

So how long do we give DD?
Also, we can't have three players or even four players on the court for extended amounts of time that are zero threat to score. This is why I've brought up trades for Poole and Simons... People hate them, I get it, I'm not a huge fan myself, but both of them are pretty much instant offense and would take a ton of pressure off of Ant to create.

1- DD or NAW need to go,
2- Randle needs to go
3- If Minott is too dumb to play, he needs to go...no excuse for him to not be playing unless he is too dim to learn plays at this point. It's either Minott's brain or Finch's stubbornness.

1. Couldn’t disagree more. NAW is having his best season. If you really want to sell high on him that makes some sense. But needing to go implies discount and I would rather trust our ability to bring him back than give him away. As for DDV, we just gave up KAT for his contract. What we really need is to get him back on track.

2. Couldn’t agree more. Dude is basketball poison.

3. You realize he just turned 22. He barely played in college, and he doesn’t set the rotation. Finch needs to give him the room to learn and grow and develop into a rotation player. Instead he has a mini role with no room to learn or integrate. Those kinds of mistakes come from not playing enough with his teammates. Give him some run and take your lumps and you will get production.

1. I agree, but trying to play him or DD at PG is a horrible idea and both are too small to play forward. Keeping both is hurting roster balance.

2. Amen

3. He has been here for 3 years...how long does it take?? It has been Finch's system the entire time. You made my point, the issue is either he doesn't get "it" or Finch doesn't want to play him so he can play others that "have" to play (DD&NAW).

[winforlose]

So how long do we give DD?
Also, we can't have three players or even four players on the court for extended amounts of time that are zero threat to score. This is why I've brought up trades for Poole and Simons... People hate them, I get it, I'm not a huge fan myself, but both of them are pretty much instant offense and would take a ton of pressure off of Ant to create.

1- DD or NAW need to go,
2- Randle needs to go
3- If Minott is too dumb to play, he needs to go...no excuse for him to not be playing unless he is too dim to learn plays at this point. It's either Minott's brain or Finch's stubbornness.

1. Couldn’t disagree more. NAW is having his best season. If you really want to sell high on him that makes some sense. But needing to go implies discount and I would rather trust our ability to bring him back than give him away. As for DDV, we just gave up KAT for his contract. What we really need is to get him back on track.

2. Couldn’t agree more. Dude is basketball poison.

3. You realize he just turned 22. He barely played in college, and he doesn’t set the rotation. Finch needs to give him the room to learn and grow and develop into a rotation player. Instead he has a mini role with no room to learn or integrate. Those kinds of mistakes come from not playing enough with his teammates. Give him some run and take your lumps and you will get production.

1. I agree, but trying to play him or DD at PG is a horrible idea and both are too small to play forward. Keeping both is hurting roster balance.

2. Amen

3. He has been here for 3 years...how long does it take?? It has been Finch's system the entire time. You made my point, the issue is either he doesn't get "it" or Finch doesn't want to play him so he can play others that "have" to play (DD&NAW).

1. Dilly or trade Randle to get our backup PG. The answer isn’t to force a square peg into a round hole, we just need to get a new puzzle. We saw last year both NAW and DDV played a role in getting a team to the conference finals, no reason that couldn’t happen again

2. Nothing more needs to be said.

3. I think you lack patience for the process. Rookie years for a guy like Minott who didn’t really play in college are all about watching and playing in the G. His sophomore year was disappointing, but given his age and experience level, he was kinda closer to a 2nd year rookie than a true sophomore. Now he is showing return on his development. He is taking the leap we want to see. Both those miscues last night were a function of lack of play time and chemistry (chemistry coming from playing with guys over and over,) more than anything else. Minott has a .5 or less rotation. Instead Finch needs to open things up to a full 9, and eventually 10 when Dilly is healthy. There will be growing pains, but this season feels doomed anyway. Ant and Randle have been exposed, and without some serious unlocking of Jaden and DDV we are a play in team who will fire Finch.

[cmoss84]

NAW and DD are way too valuable to get rid of to me. Super important pieces on good contracts (hopefully this will be the case with NAW as well). We have to keep NAZ, NAW, and DD. Unless DD is in a package with Randle that gets us a really good return.

[shrink]

It would be GM malpractice to not consider trades for Nickiel Alexander-Walker.

The problem with keeping him is finding enough minutes for him where he can be cost-effective. Ant, and DiVincenzo, and NAW are all shooting guards. All three of them are substantially worse players in any non-SG minutes. If another team offers him $20 to be their starter, can we get $20 mil in production if he’s getting back up minutes? $15?

Second, NAW may like the Wolves and Mike Conley, but does he really want to stay here next season, to make less, and to come off the bench? Especially if the team’s future is as bleak as many of you seem to believe? Suppose another team offers him more money, and the chance to start, do you think we can just assume NAW will stay here for $15? NAW becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent next season, we can’t extend him, and we have zero control over where he chooses to play next season.

NAW has been the biggest surprise of the season, and he’s one of my very favorite players. But his next contract and our team composition require us to listen to offers. That’s just proper GMing.

[winforlose]

It would be GM malpractice to not consider trades for Nickiel Alexander-Walker.

The problem with keeping him is finding enough minutes for him where he can be cost-effective. Ant, and DiVincenzo, and NAW are all shooting guards. All three of them are substantially worse players in any non-SG minutes. If another team offers him $20 to be their starter, can we get $20 mil in production if he’s getting back up minutes? $15?

Second, NAW may like the Wolves and Mike Conley, but does he really want to stay here next season, to make less, and to come off the bench? Especially if the team’s future is as bleak as many of you seem to believe? Suppose another team offers him more money, and the chance to start, do you think we can just assume NAW will stay here for $15? NAW becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent next season, we can’t extend him, and we have zero control over where he chooses to play next season.

NAW has been the biggest surprise of the season, and he’s one of my very favorite players. But his next contract and our team composition require us to listen to offers. That’s just proper GMing.

Let’s break this down a bit.

1. NAW spends as much time at SF as he does at SG or PF. NAW spent last season coming in for Jaden. He can play with literally any 2 guards you can name, and he defend up as well as down (another way to say that is defend 1-3 and small ball 4.)

2. NAW had a disastrous playoffs last year. Like catastrophically bad. That he is playing very well in the regular season will definitely up his next pay check, but he needs a strong showing in this years playoffs to hit top dollar.

3. NAW might not want to leave. He failed in every other system he was in. Prior to Finch asking TC to toss him in the Conley deal, NAW was about to exit the league, and not by choice. Granted, NAW won’t want to take a major haircut to stay, but a competitive offer might well entice him to stick around and wait 2 more years.

4. You might be wondering what happens in 2 years. Well not only does the cap get two TV money infusions raising the value of mid level contracts, but also the league likely expands and that means more talent dilution which means more money to be had.

5. Finally, our 2nd apron restrictions plus NAW’s small contract make for tricky parameters for a good trade. Not impossible by any stretch, but mostly rookie scale and vet minimum guys. A NAW for Kessler deal makes sense for us, (and Utah can add a third team if they don’t want NAW,) but not a lot of other trades do. Sharpe is a step backward because he is out for the year, and this team cannot punt on the future because the window is almost closed. 2nd apron penalties are beyond brutal long term. We cannot contend outside of it, and we cannot stay there very long. So, this is our window, and all trades must take us forward, not backward.

[cmoss84]

The (multi) million dollar question: start on a non playoff team or play meaningful backup minutes on a contender.

[cmoss84]

The (multi) million dollar question: start on a non playoff team or play meaningful backup minutes on a contender.

[Norseman79]

It would be GM malpractice to not consider trades for Nickiel Alexander-Walker.

The problem with keeping him is finding enough minutes for him where he can be cost-effective. Ant, and DiVincenzo, and NAW are all shooting guards. All three of them are substantially worse players in any non-SG minutes. If another team offers him $20 to be their starter, can we get $20 mil in production if he’s getting back up minutes? $15?

Second, NAW may like the Wolves and Mike Conley, but does he really want to stay here next season, to make less, and to come off the bench? Especially if the team’s future is as bleak as many of you seem to believe? Suppose another team offers him more money, and the chance to start, do you think we can just assume NAW will stay here for $15? NAW becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent next season, we can’t extend him, and we have zero control over where he chooses to play next season.

NAW has been the biggest surprise of the season, and he’s one of my very favorite players. But his next contract and our team composition require us to listen to offers. That’s just proper GMing.

Let’s break this down a bit.

1. NAW spends as much time at SF as he does at SG or PF. NAW spent last season coming in for Jaden. He can play with literally any 2 guards you can name, and he defend up as well as down (another way to say that is defend 1-3 and small ball 4.)

2. NAW had a disastrous playoffs last year. Like catastrophically bad. That he is playing very well in the regular season will definitely up his next pay check, but he needs a strong showing in this years playoffs to hit top dollar.

3. NAW might not want to leave. He failed in every other system he was in. Prior to Finch asking TC to toss him in the Conley deal, NAW was about to exit the league, and not by choice. Granted, NAW won’t want to take a major haircut to stay, but a competitive offer might well entice him to stick around and wait 2 more years.

4. You might be wondering what happens in 2 years. Well not only does the cap get two TV money infusions raising the value of mid level contracts, but also the league likely expands and that means more talent dilution which means more money to be had.

5. Finally, our 2nd apron restrictions plus NAW’s small contract make for tricky parameters for a good trade. Not impossible by any stretch, but mostly rookie scale and vet minimum guys. A NAW for Kessler deal makes sense for us, (and Utah can add a third team if they don’t want NAW,) but not a lot of other trades do. Sharpe is a step backward because he is out for the year, and this team cannot punt on the future because the window is almost closed. 2nd apron penalties are beyond brutal long term. We cannot contend outside of it, and we cannot stay there very long. So, this is our window, and all trades must take us forward, not backward.

1. He can play those positions, but they aren't his best position. See Naz Reid playing the 5. If another team goes small, yes, NAW can guard, but he is typically on best guard for other team. And offensively he is not a PG.

I agree with the rest.

[winforlose]

It would be GM malpractice to not consider trades for Nickiel Alexander-Walker.

The problem with keeping him is finding enough minutes for him where he can be cost-effective. Ant, and DiVincenzo, and NAW are all shooting guards. All three of them are substantially worse players in any non-SG minutes. If another team offers him $20 to be their starter, can we get $20 mil in production if he’s getting back up minutes? $15?

Second, NAW may like the Wolves and Mike Conley, but does he really want to stay here next season, to make less, and to come off the bench? Especially if the team’s future is as bleak as many of you seem to believe? Suppose another team offers him more money, and the chance to start, do you think we can just assume NAW will stay here for $15? NAW becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent next season, we can’t extend him, and we have zero control over where he chooses to play next season.

NAW has been the biggest surprise of the season, and he’s one of my very favorite players. But his next contract and our team composition require us to listen to offers. That’s just proper GMing.

Let’s break this down a bit.

1. NAW spends as much time at SF as he does at SG or PF. NAW spent last season coming in for Jaden. He can play with literally any 2 guards you can name, and he defend up as well as down (another way to say that is defend 1-3 and small ball 4.)

2. NAW had a disastrous playoffs last year. Like catastrophically bad. That he is playing very well in the regular season will definitely up his next pay check, but he needs a strong showing in this years playoffs to hit top dollar.

3. NAW might not want to leave. He failed in every other system he was in. Prior to Finch asking TC to toss him in the Conley deal, NAW was about to exit the league, and not by choice. Granted, NAW won’t want to take a major haircut to stay, but a competitive offer might well entice him to stick around and wait 2 more years.

4. You might be wondering what happens in 2 years. Well not only does the cap get two TV money infusions raising the value of mid level contracts, but also the league likely expands and that means more talent dilution which means more money to be had.

5. Finally, our 2nd apron restrictions plus NAW’s small contract make for tricky parameters for a good trade. Not impossible by any stretch, but mostly rookie scale and vet minimum guys. A NAW for Kessler deal makes sense for us, (and Utah can add a third team if they don’t want NAW,) but not a lot of other trades do. Sharpe is a step backward because he is out for the year, and this team cannot punt on the future because the window is almost closed. 2nd apron penalties are beyond brutal long term. We cannot contend outside of it, and we cannot stay there very long. So, this is our window, and all trades must take us forward, not backward.

1. He can play those positions, but they aren't his best position. See Naz Reid playing the 5. If another team goes small, yes, NAW can guard, but he is typically on best guard for other team. And offensively he is not a PG.

I agree with the rest.

I disagree somewhere between a 4 and 5 out of 10 with this. NAW does better when he isn’t giving up a ton of size (hence the partial agreement,) but positions are more about defense than offense, and NAW does just as well against the average 6’7 SF compared to the 6’5 SG. The difference is guys like Luka and Ingram who are the huge wings. In situations like that it is better to have Jaden defend them, and NAW defend the smaller guard. But, teams like Denver put Gordon on guards because sometimes regardless of size, lateral quickness, defensive tech, ect…. Is more important than matchup. Finally Mike, Donte, NAW, Naz, and Rudy is one of our best lineups, and NAW is excellent at SF.

[Norseman79]

Let’s break this down a bit.

1. NAW spends as much time at SF as he does at SG or PF. NAW spent last season coming in for Jaden. He can play with literally any 2 guards you can name, and he defend up as well as down (another way to say that is defend 1-3 and small ball 4.)

2. NAW had a disastrous playoffs last year. Like catastrophically bad. That he is playing very well in the regular season will definitely up his next pay check, but he needs a strong showing in this years playoffs to hit top dollar.

3. NAW might not want to leave. He failed in every other system he was in. Prior to Finch asking TC to toss him in the Conley deal, NAW was about to exit the league, and not by choice. Granted, NAW won’t want to take a major haircut to stay, but a competitive offer might well entice him to stick around and wait 2 more years.

4. You might be wondering what happens in 2 years. Well not only does the cap get two TV money infusions raising the value of mid level contracts, but also the league likely expands and that means more talent dilution which means more money to be had.

5. Finally, our 2nd apron restrictions plus NAW’s small contract make for tricky parameters for a good trade. Not impossible by any stretch, but mostly rookie scale and vet minimum guys. A NAW for Kessler deal makes sense for us, (and Utah can add a third team if they don’t want NAW,) but not a lot of other trades do. Sharpe is a step backward because he is out for the year, and this team cannot punt on the future because the window is almost closed. 2nd apron penalties are beyond brutal long term. We cannot contend outside of it, and we cannot stay there very long. So, this is our window, and all trades must take us forward, not backward.

1. He can play those positions, but they aren't his best position. See Naz Reid playing the 5. If another team goes small, yes, NAW can guard, but he is typically on best guard for other team. And offensively he is not a PG.

I agree with the rest.

I disagree somewhere between a 4 and 5 out of 10 with this. NAW does better when he isn’t giving up a ton of size (hence the partial agreement,) but positions are more about defense than offense, and NAW does just as well against the average 6’7 SF compared to the 6’5 SG. The difference is guys like Luka and Ingram who are the huge wings. In situations like that it is better to have Jaden defend them, and NAW defend the smaller guard. But, teams like Denver put Gordon on guards because sometimes regardless of size, lateral quickness, defensive tech, ect…. Is more important than matchup. Finally Mike, Donte, NAW, Naz, and Rudy is one of our best lineups, and NAW is excellent at SF.

If he is guarding other small players, he is fine. But being smaller is detrimental, a big part of our success last year was from being a big team, not going small.

[winforlose]

1. He can play those positions, but they aren't his best position. See Naz Reid playing the 5. If another team goes small, yes, NAW can guard, but he is typically on best guard for other team. And offensively he is not a PG.

I agree with the rest.

I disagree somewhere between a 4 and 5 out of 10 with this. NAW does better when he isn’t giving up a ton of size (hence the partial agreement,) but positions are more about defense than offense, and NAW does just as well against the average 6’7 SF compared to the 6’5 SG. The difference is guys like Luka and Ingram who are the huge wings. In situations like that it is better to have Jaden defend them, and NAW defend the smaller guard. But, teams like Denver put Gordon on guards because sometimes regardless of size, lateral quickness, defensive tech, ect…. Is more important than matchup. Finally Mike, Donte, NAW, Naz, and Rudy is one of our best lineups, and NAW is excellent at SF.

If he is guarding other small players, he is fine. But being smaller is detrimental, a big part of our success last year was from being a big team, not going small.

True. Let me try it this way. IfJaden is out of the game, who guards the other teams best player? If Jaden is in the game, they split the assignment to limit foul trouble and keep legs fresh. NAW is mostly a position-less defender. He is always going to be on the opposing teams best guard or wing whether they are as small as Steph, or as big as Luka.

[Norseman79]

I disagree somewhere between a 4 and 5 out of 10 with this. NAW does better when he isn’t giving up a ton of size (hence the partial agreement,) but positions are more about defense than offense, and NAW does just as well against the average 6’7 SF compared to the 6’5 SG. The difference is guys like Luka and Ingram who are the huge wings. In situations like that it is better to have Jaden defend them, and NAW defend the smaller guard. But, teams like Denver put Gordon on guards because sometimes regardless of size, lateral quickness, defensive tech, ect…. Is more important than matchup. Finally Mike, Donte, NAW, Naz, and Rudy is one of our best lineups, and NAW is excellent at SF.

If he is guarding other small players, he is fine. But being smaller is detrimental, a big part of our success last year was from being a big team, not going small.

True. Let me try it this way. IfJaden is out of the game, who guards the other teams best player? If Jaden is in the game, they split the assignment to limit foul trouble and keep legs fresh. NAW is mostly a position-less defender. He is always going to be on the opposing teams best guard or wing whether they are as small as Steph, or as big as Luka.

No one is arguing if he can play defense, but who is he better suited to guard? A small forward like LeBron or a point guard like Steph? A small forward like Durant or a shooting guard like Booker? Now if Booker is playing small forward then obviously Alexander Walker can guard him.

I just don't want to pay my third string shooting guard like he should be a starting one.

[winforlose]

If he is guarding other small players, he is fine. But being smaller is detrimental, a big part of our success last year was from being a big team, not going small.

True. Let me try it this way. IfJaden is out of the game, who guards the other teams best player? If Jaden is in the game, they split the assignment to limit foul trouble and keep legs fresh. NAW is mostly a position-less defender. He is always going to be on the opposing teams best guard or wing whether they are as small as Steph, or as big as Luka.

No one is arguing if he can play defense, but who is he better suited to guard? A small forward like LeBron or a point guard like Steph? A small forward like Durant or a shooting guard like Booker? Now if Booker is playing small forward then obviously Alexander Walker can guard him.

I just don't want to pay my third string shooting guard like he should be a starting one.

Again there is truth in this. But, look at the defensive numbers when both Jaden and NAW are playing together. Put that together with Rudy and playoff Ant. The puzzle is more complicated than the individual pieces. As for what NAW is worth, I think 15 if he signs a deal next year. Could be more or less depending on playoff performance, staying healthy, ect… I have no problem paying NAW as he is an instant 6th man on almost any team. Look at how much Clarkson is making and he doesn’t play nearly the defense. I think a team with a core of Ant, Jaden, Naz, DDV, and NAW will do fine post Gobert (this is like 3 years from now or more,) and if you add Gobert to that in the short term those 6 plus supporting cast is contending. You do need Naz to fill in some of the KAT scoring and efficiency, you do need playoff Ant and Jaden, and you do need NAW to play like NAW in the playoffs.

[minimus]

I see some concerns about our starting PF position if Randle leave MIN. Well, I think Reid can take all Randle minutes at PF and partially as backup C. So are rotation will look like this:

IMO Randle is not the answer, but he also is not the problem. I believe that if our rookies continue to improve and we add vetmin backup C and PG we can compete with top West team. Let say Randle wont re-sign, declines his player option, re-sign Reid around 20-25 mil per year, re-sign NAW around 10-15 mil per year. I believe MIN will have around MLE to spend of FA. Instead of adding a vet PG like Monte Morris, I'd give a chance to Nix and more minutes to Rob. Main focus in offseaon should be a veteran bigman. Someone physical, tough. A few names Kevon Looney, Mo Wagner, Larry Nance Jr.

Gobert/???/Garza
Reid/Minott/Miller
McDaniels/NAW/TJ
Edwards/DDV/Clark
Conley/Dilly/Nix

Considering the fact that Gobert accepted a paycut, I think that next offseason TC will have some room to play.

[Norseman79]

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/minnesota-timberwolves/news/wolves-predicted-part-julius-randle-land-versatile-rockets-two-player-package-blockbuster-trade/d933a5ad7c5a8c28b0034e9b

I would be pretty hard to deal with if this trade happened lol not like I was pushing it a month ago

[Shaka_Zulu]

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/minnesota-timberwolves/news/wolves-predicted-part-julius-randle-land-versatile-rockets-two-player-package-blockbuster-trade/d933a5ad7c5a8c28b0034e9b

I would be pretty hard to deal with if this trade happened lol not like I was pushing it a month ago

That would be nice lol


But I'm greedy and would ask for Tari Eason also

[Norseman79]

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/minnesota-timberwolves/news/wolves-predicted-part-julius-randle-land-versatile-rockets-two-player-package-blockbuster-trade/d933a5ad7c5a8c28b0034e9b

I would be pretty hard to deal with if this trade happened lol not like I was pushing it a month ago

But I'm greedy and would ask for Tari Eason also

That would be an epic overpay by Houston....but hey, shoot your shot.

Frontline of McDaniels, Smith Jr, Reid, Gobert and Adams has versatility, size, and depth

[minimus]

MIA IN: Randle, Adams, DET FRP, HOU FRP 2025, NAW (separate trade)
MIA OUT: Butler
Why for MIA: get two expiring contracts, get bigger under rim


HOU IN: Butler
HOU OUT: Adams, Brooks, J.Smith, HOU FRP 2025
Why for HOU: pair Butler with young players

MIN IN: Brooks, J.Smith
MIN OUT: Julius Randle, NAW, DET FRP

Gobert/Reid/Garza
J.Smith/Minott/Miller
McDaniels/Brooks/TJ
Edwards/DDV/Clark
Conley/Dilly/Nix