#25 - Pistons@Knicks - 7:30pm ET

[Cowology]

Steph Curry changed the conversation, but to me Isiah was the 2nd best PG in history behind Magic. Any conversations comparing him to Cade are going to be premature for me just because I hold Isiah in such high reverence (as a player). I'm not ready to go there yet.

When I talk about success relative to the era, Isiah was an All-Star his rookie year. And the 11 seasons that followed. All NBA 2nd team his 2nd season and he made 1st Team All NBA by his 3rd season at the age of 22. You can look at all the stats you want, but in terms of his impact relative to his era... it's apples and oranges. I don't care if you talk 80's or 90's it's going to be the same thing. That conversation is a loooong way off imo.

[NYPiston]

Isiah once averaged 14 assists/game

Just for fun I looked at Isiah's stats that year. They happened to be his age 23 season. It's Cade's age 23 season as well.

Cade's assist percentage is only slightly lower (44.6% vs Isiah's 47.9%). It is, however, better than John Stockton's age 23 season of 41.8%. Some tend to believe that guy could play a bit of PG...

As for Cade's numbers in general -- they are at least comparable Isiah's 23 year old season:
stat Cade Isiah
mpg 35.9 38.1
pts 23.9 21.2
fg% .455 .458
3p% .393 .257
TRB 7.3 4.5
AST 9.4 13.9
TOV 4.7 3.7
STL 0.9 2.3
BLK 0.8 0.3

I won't go and say that one is better than the other. I will say though that in Isiah's time that things were much more rigid in terms of players slotting into defined roles versus today it is much more fluid.

But given that it's even plausible to make a comparison with a HOF player at this point has to bode well right?

Isiah's game goes beyond stats. He was one of the best clutch players of all time, Cade has showed to shrink in the clutch more often than not and Isiah was clutch even when the Pistons were mediocre before they started filling out the roster in the mid 80s. This is why I hate when the advanced stats nerds crap on Isiah because his advanced metrics weren't always in his favor especially in the latter half of his career but I digress.

Anyway, I know by the numbers there are some similarities but only winning will give Cade the credit he deserves and he's struggled a lot to close out games. That needs to change in order for him to get more respect because until then he's more of an empty stats guy. A lot of that is on the supporting cast as well but it is what it is, stars will always be the most scrutinized especially when you're a former #1 overall pick and touted to be a true franchise player.

[MortSahlfan]

I think Isiah was better than Magic, who couldn't defend worth a damn.. If they need a shot, especially a 3, forget about "Tragic" Johnson (his old nickname). Lots of flash, but Isiah could take over games, even on one ankle... And on defense, you can see games (some on YouTube) of Isiah basically symmetrical to the offensive player's every moves... Heart, leadership, clutch... And when MJ says, "I think Magic is the greatest pg ever, but Isiah is right behind him" which means he knows Isiah was better.... Isiah didn't have Kareem, who won a title before Magic with the Milwaukee Bucks.

But I am a big believer of Cade.. The more we improve the roster around him, the more effective he'll be, because he wants to pass, can thread the needle, and he's gone from triple-teams to double-teams.

[Kalamazoo317]

Fwiw I don't think the point of comparing Cade to Isiah was to claim that Cade was as good, but more to show that Cade *is* good.

[zeebneeb]

Fwiw I don't think the point of comparing Cade to Isiah was to claim that Cade was as good, but more to show that Cade *is* good.

Yup. I purposely didn't add a disclaimer in my Cade stats, to see who twisted what was about Cade, into some "Cade is as good/better then" argument.

If I have to add a disclaimer to everything I post, when it comes to stats, just screw the whole damn thing. Its tiresome.

I'm surprised that someone didn't add that I think Cade is as good/better then Doncic, or anyone else on the list of stats.

I just thought it was cool that Cade has already passed Thomas, and could end up with the best season for triple doubles in Pistons history if he keeps up this pace. (5 for 25 games=right around 15. Record is 13 from Grant Hill.) Also, it was a direct poke in the eye to the folks that keep saying Cade isn't a PG, and not a player who can carry a team.(First Piston to average 9+ assists since 1989-90! and only the 3rd Piston ever to do it!)

This is, for all intents and purposes, Cades 3rd year. He played 12 games his sophomore season. He just turned 23. Most NBA players are considered in their prime, or just entering, by the time they hit 25/26. He is at 159 games played, total. Thats less then two seasons!

For **** sake. I personally am enjoying watching one of the best individual performances by a Pistons player, in a long, long, long damn time. I didn't pencil him in for this year, but he may end up an all-star this season. The Pistons don't have a long, rich history of "superstar" players, and the fact that Cade might actually become one, is a big deal for this long time Pistons fan.

I just want to enjoy it, with fans that appreciate it, thus, I post the stats when he does/doing something amazing. I did the same thing for Drummond back in the day. His rebounding was superlative. It still is. Turns out, he just didn't care.

I'm hoping Cade developes that killer mentality, and the way he's been carrying himself lately, and the things he's been saying, its starting to look that way. This NY game was awesome. He completely controlled the game. He looked, and played the part, especially that first half. It was nuts.

In any event, for future reference, if I'm posting stats, its gonna be about Cade, and if I'm comparing, unless I state, "Cade is better then Player X" I'm just making a comparison.

Cades on track to be an all-star this season, so let's hope for good health!

[Cowology]

Zeeb, if you are deliberately NOT putting the disclaimer and looking to see who reacts, then you're just trolling for reactions and criticizing those who take the bait. Be better.

[Kalamazoo317]

(First Piston to average 9+ assists since 1989-90! and only the 3rd Piston ever to do it!)

Not to put the cart before the horse, you're talking about averaging it for an entire season, right? Like I totally believe he can average 9 for the whole season, but we've got a lot of season left before it actually happens.

[zeebneeb]

Zeeb, if you are deliberately NOT putting the disclaimer and looking to see who reacts, then you're just trolling for reactions and criticizing those who take the bait. Be better.

Oh your right, I just didn't feel like it.

Cade is the light in the tunnel around here, and while I understand some criticism(Turnovers. Turnovers. Turnovers.) I bristle at others.

159 games.

[Invictus88]

Zeeb, if you are deliberately NOT putting the disclaimer and looking to see who reacts, then you're just trolling for reactions and criticizing those who take the bait. Be better.

You know when I posted the stat lines for Cade and Isiah that I did so after someone compared Cade's assists to Isiah's best year in that category -- which happened to be his 23rd year.

I think I even mentioned that I wasn't posting it to say Cade was better. I just thought it was neat that Cade was doing so well.

Then some folks here took that posting to mean something else and folks started making judgments.

It is possible to think highly of both players; to hold one in extreme esteem for the amazing career he had and be excited for what the other is slowly becoming.

I shouldn't have had to post a disclaimer to "be better".

[Cowology]

Zeeb, if you are deliberately NOT putting the disclaimer and looking to see who reacts, then you're just trolling for reactions and criticizing those who take the bait. Be better.

Oh your right, I just didn't feel like it.

Cade is the light in the tunnel around here, and while I understand some criticism(Turnovers. Turnovers. Turnovers.) I bristle at others.

159 games.

I get it can be excessive, but I don't think the criticism ever stops. Giannis & Shaq still hearing bout they FT's. LBJ might be the most criticized player ever. *shrug*

Profesionally I'm sorta trained to attack "opportunities" and being receptive to feedback is critical, so I maybe have a different relationship with criticism. I guess I'm relatively cold & analytical about it. But even beyond that, like...who gives a **** if other people wanna critique a player? Just not going to phase me. *shrug*

But everybody is different. As long as people are approaching it in good faith I think it's fine. If people are doing it to troll that's different.

[DetroitSho]

Cade is definitely better than last year. But he's still an example of traditional counting stats not telling the whole story. Cade and Isiah are nothing alike in caliber or the type of player they are, so I'm not sure how that comparison came about.

Even if we're just looking at surface area stats their stats look different.

You're not sure how the comparison came about? Huh? They're both Pistons that averaged, up to this point, 9.4 assists a game. I'm guessing you skipped some posts in this thread.

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Yeah, I don't think that's enough to justify the comparision.

Again, context is escaping you. But nevermind.

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