Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions

[BroncoBuck]

I’m leaning more and more to just reshaping the roster specifically for the Boston matchup.

Yes, Bobby and Brook have their teams they matchup really well against, but neither matches well with Boston. Moving off them could hurt us for other matchups, but Boston is the mountain that has to be climbed.

We desperately need to get quicker in space. I just rewatched the game, and so many of Boston’s buckets weren’t even well executed offensive plays - we were just slow in space and they took advantage with open threes after a single pass or blow-by’s that shouldn’t have been blown-by’s.

Like others, I’m more willing to move Bobby, because Brook is the lynchpin of our rim defense, but I’m willing to deal either or both.


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Isn't the answer here mostly just that the Bucks need to play small against the Celtics? We already have a very mobile, switchable big on the roster - his name is Giannis.

The closing lineup against Boston needs to be Dame/AJ Green/Prince/Middleton/Giannis. That matches their shooting and gives us a defensive lineup that can switch and not get killed by Horford/KP pick and pops.

My focus in the trade market would be on adding a big wing that can defend Tatum and/or play some small ball 4.

The problem with that lineup is we can’t rebound the ball and it doesn’t keep Giannis out of foul trouble since he’d be the only guy remotely capable of defending the rim. We need a mobile 5. Keep Giannis at the 4 to take the pressure off of him.

If Boston has a healthy KP (which is equal odds for us having healthy Midds at this point) they probably sweep us. Right now they likely win in 5 or 6.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Is there a difference between "Team Friendly" and "the best he could get at the time in the open market"? Like first time, I thought he resigned out of loyalty, happened again after he was rumored to be on the trading block. I really just teams realized he an empty calorie guy that you shouldn't give big money to. There are still some dumb contracts but I think those are mostly for guys getting resigned due to weird cap nuances. Teams arent quite as dumb as they used to be.

This is what's dumb. Bobby wasn't an empty calorie guy when he re-signed. The team was winning w/ him on the court & he was doing things that contributed to that - scoring volume AND efficiency, out-rebounding his opponent, + perimeter d. It was less extreme on that side of the spectrum of what we saw last night. But now it's more exception than rule.

It's hyperbole to claim he has no value. Plenty of teams need a big and can talk themselves into him recapturing his form from the 1st couple yrs in Milwaukee. And it's possible they're right, because maybe he got complacent here, the scheme's bad for him, or the complements are. All I know is it hasn't worked here for a couple years, so it's time to move on.

So do you actually think Bobby turned down multiple offers to return to us at a below-market rate....multiple years in a row.....after Bud repeated benched in 2021.....after constantly being in trade rumors?

In 2021, Bobby had a little bit of a resurgence in the Hawks series and some moments against the suns but guy was just not playable in the Nets series. You could tell Bud had zero faith in the guy.

[Fotis St]

Rebounding >>>>>>>>> Blocks

Portis >>>>>>>>>>> Brook

Rebounds "ends" the defense and gains possessions >>>>> Blocks are shot deflections same a pass deflections , usually the ball still goes to opponents. Blocks are good highlights, good for team moral boost BUT you actually don't gain anything UNLESS you get the possession... Red Auerbach (my mentor watching his VHS 80's basketball lessons 1000 times) ...

Coach Doc needs to show these old Red's VHS lessons to our whole team daily ... until they get it and out-rebound the entire league and win a championship.

[raferfenix]

On the one hand I'm worried Bobby's a bad fit here and teams won't value him as a long term piece they want to extend vs filler role play they might let walk this offseason.

On the other he just had one of if not the best game on the Bucks:

Read on Twitter

While the ball movement was nice, the Bucks didn’t flip the game in their favor until they started pairing their clutch shotmaking with great defense. Those strong defensive plays down the stretch came from an unlikely source: Portis

“The four 3s are amazing,” Antetokounmpo said of Portis’ fourth-quarter effort. “When you’re able to score points like that in the fourth quarter down the stretch, especially in a close game, it’s incredible, but for me, every time that we were switching — because we were switching down the stretch one through five — and he was on the ball, he just made it tough.

“He made it tough on guys. And that’s what makes it even more incredible. That’s what I see.

...the guy that they were picking on was Bobby and it did not work today. It did not work. I’m extremely proud of him. And the shots that he made, that’s also great, but I care about his defense.”

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5979645/2024/12/09/bucks-giannis-antetokounmpo-bobby-portis/

[old skool]

Rebounding >>>>>>>>> Blocks

Portis >>>>>>>>>>> Brook

Rebounds "ends" the defense and gains possessions >>>>> Blocks are shot deflections same a pass deflections , usually the ball still goes to opponents. Blocks are good highlights, good for team moral boost BUT you actually don't gain anything UNLESS you get the possession... Red Auerbach (my mentor watching his VHS 80's basketball lessons 1000 times)

I think this over simplifies the value of shot blocking rim protection. A shot blocker allows perimeter defenders to be more aggressive at the point of attack, knowing that if the offensive player drives past the perimeter defense, there is a backup at the rim. There is value to being more aggressive on the perimeter, making outside shots more difficult.

Auerbach never had to worry about being buried by a flurry of 3-point baskets. He welcomed those as bad shots.

[BigO]

Some reasonable discussion about BP, even though I disagree with much of it. He was a necessary part of the championship team and I don't think we win game 6 without him.

The league is evolving, as we can see with guys like Trent, Prince, Wright and Beasley last year; all minimum guys who were previously paid more.

Where BP fits into this will be interesting. If the posters who think he is of negative value are right, we will find out how the experts view him. If the posters are right, BP will opt in to his contract.

[emunney]

Rebounding >>>>>>>>> Blocks

Portis >>>>>>>>>>> Brook

Rebounds "ends" the defense and gains possessions >>>>> Blocks are shot deflections same a pass deflections , usually the ball still goes to opponents. Blocks are good highlights, good for team moral boost BUT you actually don't gain anything UNLESS you get the possession... Red Auerbach (my mentor watching his VHS 80's basketball lessons 1000 times)

I think this over simplifies the value of shot blocking rim protection. A shot blocker allows perimeter defenders to be more aggressive at the point of attack, knowing that if the offensive player drives past the perimeter defense, there is a backup at the rim. There is value to being more aggressive on the perimeter, making outside shots more difficult.

Auerbach never had to worry about being buried by a flurry of 3-point baskets. He welcomed those as bad shots.

Also the value of a great shot blocker typically extends to shots he doesn't actually block. There isn't necessarily a 1:1 correlation but with Brook, it's certainly the case that it's substantially harder to score if he's defending the shot. And, of course: there is no rebound without a missed shot.

[Frank Nova]

On the one hand I'm worried Bobby's a bad fit here and teams won't value him as a long term piece they want to extend vs filler role play they might let walk this offseason.

On the other he just had one of if not the best game on the Bucks:

Read on Twitter

While the ball movement was nice, the Bucks didn’t flip the game in their favor until they started pairing their clutch shotmaking with great defense. Those strong defensive plays down the stretch came from an unlikely source: Portis

“The four 3s are amazing,” Antetokounmpo said of Portis’ fourth-quarter effort. “When you’re able to score points like that in the fourth quarter down the stretch, especially in a close game, it’s incredible, but for me, every time that we were switching — because we were switching down the stretch one through five — and he was on the ball, he just made it tough.

“He made it tough on guys. And that’s what makes it even more incredible. That’s what I see.

...the guy that they were picking on was Bobby and it did not work today. It did not work. I’m extremely proud of him. And the shots that he made, that’s also great, but I care about his defense.”

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5979645/2024/12/09/bucks-giannis-antetokounmpo-bobby-portis/

This is what’s most infuriating about Bobby. He looks like a hero vs a bad Brooklyn team we had no business being in a dog fight with in the 1st place. He plays his ass off and it’s like “we can’t trade him, look how important he is to the team”. But in reality he’s going to be completely unplayable in a playoff series vs Boston especially and New York. He could be useful vs Cleveland because they play big but he’ll get killed in a 7 game series matched up with either Mobley or Allen so it’s pretty much a moot point there as well.

Bobby playing well against bad teams and this whole Mayor of Milwaukee thing has completely skewed the perception of him. If Horst isn’t 1,000% focused on a roster built to beat the top end East teams in a 7 game series then he’s not doing his job. And if Bobby’s gaining traction on raising his trade value and Horst isn’t vigorously shopping him around then again, he’s not doing his job.

Bobby is not and should not be more valuable to this team than his market value around the league. If we need him to beat bad teams then we aren’t real contenders and if we are real contenders, it’s not because of Bobby Portis. Hes more of a detriment to the ultimate goal than any necessity.

I’m not saying Bobby stinks, he just isn’t going to help us beat Boston and that’s really what it all comes down to.

[emunney]

On the one hand I'm worried Bobby's a bad fit here and teams won't value him as a long term piece they want to extend vs filler role play they might let walk this offseason.

On the other he just had one of if not the best game on the Bucks:

Read on Twitter

While the ball movement was nice, the Bucks didn’t flip the game in their favor until they started pairing their clutch shotmaking with great defense. Those strong defensive plays down the stretch came from an unlikely source: Portis

“The four 3s are amazing,” Antetokounmpo said of Portis’ fourth-quarter effort. “When you’re able to score points like that in the fourth quarter down the stretch, especially in a close game, it’s incredible, but for me, every time that we were switching — because we were switching down the stretch one through five — and he was on the ball, he just made it tough.

“He made it tough on guys. And that’s what makes it even more incredible. That’s what I see.

...the guy that they were picking on was Bobby and it did not work today. It did not work. I’m extremely proud of him. And the shots that he made, that’s also great, but I care about his defense.”

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5979645/2024/12/09/bucks-giannis-antetokounmpo-bobby-portis/

This is why I haven't been super gung-ho on moving Portis. His biggest problems are contextual and we can change the context if we choose.

By the way, I still don't like how easily we concede the switch but every team in the NBA does that when they start switching.

Switch *everything*?

[ShootingtheJ]

Rebounding >>>>>>>>> Blocks

Portis >>>>>>>>>>> Brook

Rebounds "ends" the defense and gains possessions >>>>> Blocks are shot deflections same a pass deflections , usually the ball still goes to opponents. Blocks are good highlights, good for team moral boost BUT you actually don't gain anything UNLESS you get the possession... Red Auerbach (my mentor watching his VHS 80's basketball lessons 1000 times)

I think this over simplifies the value of shot blocking rim protection. A shot blocker allows perimeter defenders to be more aggressive at the point of attack, knowing that if the offensive player drives past the perimeter defense, there is a backup at the rim. There is value to being more aggressive on the perimeter, making outside shots more difficult.

Auerbach never had to worry about being buried by a flurry of 3-point baskets. He welcomed those as bad shots.

Also the value of a great shot blocker typically extends to shots he doesn't actually block. There isn't necessarily a 1:1 correlation but with Brook, it's certainly the case that it's substantially harder to score if he's defending the shot. And, of course: there is no rebound without a missed shot.

Yes. Brook grades very well in FG% allowed at the rim, and Bobby grades poorly. However, on the rare occasion when we play teams that don't take many shots at the rim, Brook quickly loses his value.

Bobby's biggest issue against Boston is that he's repeatedly had poor 3 point shooting games against them. I was hoping he'd get past that with his quickened release, but he's had a slow shooting start to the season.

[Ron Swanson]

That was probably the best we've ever seen Bobby switch and deny dribble penetration. Dude was also closing out hard on 3PT shooters and if he looked like this defensively more than 1-2 games a year, I think we'd all be more forgiving of his deficiencies/effort there and we'd be talking more about his next extension numbers rather than the necessity of him being used as a trade asset. We all should know there isn't really anything sustainable to this though, especially on days where he's not going scorched earth shooting the ball. I'd believe they found some magical formula that hides him defensively (zone) and/or makes him a viable closing lineup dude at your own risk.

[Matches Malone]

Watch on YouTube

[Fotis St]

Rebounding >>>>>>>>> Blocks

Portis >>>>>>>>>>> Brook

Rebounds "ends" the defense and gains possessions >>>>> Blocks are shot deflections same a pass deflections , usually the ball still goes to opponents. Blocks are good highlights, good for team moral boost BUT you actually don't gain anything UNLESS you get the possession... Red Auerbach (my mentor watching his VHS 80's basketball lessons 1000 times)

I think this over simplifies the value of shot blocking rim protection. A shot blocker allows perimeter defenders to be more aggressive at the point of attack, knowing that if the offensive player drives past the perimeter defense, there is a backup at the rim. There is value to being more aggressive on the perimeter, making outside shots more difficult.

Auerbach never had to worry about being buried by a flurry of 3-point baskets. He welcomed those as bad shots.

Giannis defensive antigravity is more scary than Brook ... opponents don't fear Brook, they fear Giannis help defense. Brook is so slow, opponents can calculate how high in the glass to shoot the ball, or make a floater. It is Giannis they fear and this cannot be seen in stats. How many times has Brook been dunked on, or blown by or out rebounded. I love how he helped us win a ring but he should already been a 2nd squad scoring option. Giannis should have played the 5 since 2021 when he fathered Ayton and we won it all.

So Brook being somekind of elite rim protector which helps perimeter defense is just wrong. Brook and Khris are the luckiest mfs in the world playing next to Giannis for so many years. They milked the ef out of him.

Brook is unplayable in 2025.
Portis is still in the game cause of his eyes and nose and passion to grab boards. He is a capable 3p shooter as well and has more gas in the tank than Brook. I think Portis has 2 more years being usefull in any team.
There will be a team to offer Portis a 2/40M contract , I am absolutely sure of it.

[MiltownMadness]

Is there a difference between "Team Friendly" and "the best he could get at the time in the open market"? Like first time, I thought he resigned out of loyalty, happened again after he was rumored to be on the trading block. I really just teams realized he an empty calorie guy that you shouldn't give big money to. There are still some dumb contracts but I think those are mostly for guys getting resigned due to weird cap nuances. Teams arent quite as dumb as they used to be.

This is what's dumb. Bobby wasn't an empty calorie guy when he re-signed. The team was winning w/ him on the court & he was doing things that contributed to that - scoring volume AND efficiency, out-rebounding his opponent, + perimeter d. It was less extreme on that side of the spectrum of what we saw last night. But now it's more exception than rule.

It's hyperbole to claim he has no value. Plenty of teams need a big and can talk themselves into him recapturing his form from the 1st couple yrs in Milwaukee. And it's possible they're right, because maybe he got complacent here, the scheme's bad for him, or the complements are. All I know is it hasn't worked here for a couple years, so it's time to move on.

Bobby is making 10m this year, that's dirt cheap for a rotation big that has contributed to very good teams. I know 80% of people want him gone for nothing but lets avoid the hyperbole. There's actually gross contracts in the league that have negative value

And teams are still dumb as ever...I still see the same bad franchises making the same mistakes they've always made

[Bernman]

So do you actually think Bobby turned down multiple offers to return to us at a below-market rate....multiple years in a row.....after Bud repeated benched in 2021.....after constantly being in trade rumors?

In 2021, Bobby had a little bit of a resurgence in the Hawks series and some moments against the suns but guy was just not playable in the Nets series. You could tell Bud had zero faith in the guy.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. He was coming off a season where he started most of the time & posted a +6.3 net rating/+9.3 on-off. That's not empty calories, like you perceive. It's the objective of the game. And the reverse I use against him now.

He made the claim, & it's conceivable given he was a journeyman who lost plenty, that he wanted to put down some roots + win. This may be why the Bucks turned down reported lotto pick offers, after his subsequent season which was worse than prior.

[ReasonablySober]

I don't for a second believe Bobby would have ever fetched a lottery pick. I definitely don't think he brings back a first rounder now.

The ship has sailed on him bringing back anything remotely close to value.

[Bernman]

This is why I haven't been super gung-ho on moving Portis. His biggest problems are contextual and we can change the context if we choose.

By the way, I still don't like how easily we concede the switch but every team in the NBA does that when they start switching.

Switch *everything*?

That was probably the best we've ever seen Bobby switch and deny dribble penetration. Dude was also closing out hard on 3PT shooters and if he looked like this defensively more than 1-2 games a year, I think we'd all be more forgiving of his deficiencies/effort there and we'd be talking more about his next extension numbers rather than the necessity of him being used as a trade asset. We all should know there isn't really anything sustainable to this though, especially on days where he's not going scorched earth shooting the ball. I'd believe they found some magical formula that hides him defensively (zone) and/or makes him a viable closing lineup dude at your own risk.

It's not the best we've seen from him. He was outstanding at defending guards during the title run. Stayed in front and altered their shots. It's something he did legitimately well here his 1st couple yrs before that declined.

Was that a drop, blitz, hedge/recover scheme which he's always shown to be bad at; or a athleticism, effort, reflex degradation? I was inclined to believe it was the athleticism bcuz when he did defend 1 v. 1 he was getting schooled & his rebounding suffered as well. But maybe simplifying his job makes him defend and rebound more authoritatively (plus give him a running start on boards). He did this v. Boston too. If he shot 7-15 I'd be good w/ that performance every game.

And I'd be good w/ keeping him if the return to form overall the last 2 games were real, due to a scheme change or whatever. But it's hard to believe given the play across 3 seasons. That's a gambit another interested team could make.

[Vasquectomy]

BP talked up Melo Ball, Charles Lee and also how Charlotte needs a seasoned stretch 4 to turn into a nice little team.

I don’t know about Charlotte as a trade destination, but I’m going to take a look.

[-Jragon-]

I’m leaning more and more to just reshaping the roster specifically for the Boston matchup.

Yes, Bobby and Brook have their teams they matchup really well against, but neither matches well with Boston. Moving off them could hurt us for other matchups, but Boston is the mountain that has to be climbed.

We desperately need to get quicker in space. I just rewatched the game, and so many of Boston’s buckets weren’t even well executed offensive plays - we were just slow in space and they took advantage with open threes after a single pass or blow-by’s that shouldn’t have been blown-by’s.

Like others, I’m more willing to move Bobby, because Brook is the lynchpin of our rim defense, but I’m willing to deal either or both.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Isn't the answer here mostly just that the Bucks need to play small against the Celtics? We already have a very mobile, switchable big on the roster - his name is Giannis.

The closing lineup against Boston needs to be Dame/AJ Green/Prince/Middleton/Giannis. That matches their shooting and gives us a defensive lineup that can switch and not get killed by Horford/KP pick and pops.

My focus in the trade market would be on adding a big wing that can defend Tatum and/or play some small ball 4.

The problem with that lineup is we can’t rebound the ball and it doesn’t keep Giannis out of foul trouble since he’d be the only guy remotely capable of defending the rim. We need a mobile 5. Keep Giannis at the 4 to take the pressure off of him.

If Boston has a healthy KP (which is equal odds for us having healthy Midds at this point) they probably sweep us. Right now they likely win in 5 or 6.

Actually TPrince was rebounding well in his PF min and so is KM now... Having GA/KM/TP as your 345 gives you rebounding.. I'd try this death lineup.. good post

[-Jragon-]

Rebounding >>>>>>>>> Blocks

Portis >>>>>>>>>>> Brook

Rebounds "ends" the defense and gains possessions >>>>> Blocks are shot deflections same a pass deflections , usually the ball still goes to opponents. Blocks are good highlights, good for team moral boost BUT you actually don't gain anything UNLESS you get the possession... Red Auerbach (my mentor watching his VHS 80's basketball lessons 1000 times)

I think this over simplifies the value of shot blocking rim protection. A shot blocker allows perimeter defenders to be more aggressive at the point of attack, knowing that if the offensive player drives past the perimeter defense, there is a backup at the rim. There is value to being more aggressive on the perimeter, making outside shots more difficult.

Auerbach never had to worry about being buried by a flurry of 3-point baskets. He welcomed those as bad shots.

Giannis defensive antigravity is more scary than Brook ... opponents don't fear Brook, they fear Giannis help defense. Brook is so slow, opponents can calculate how high in the glass to shoot the ball, or make a floater. It is Giannis they fear and this cannot be seen in stats. How many times has Brook been dunked on, or blown by or out rebounded. I love how he helped us win a ring but he should already been a 2nd squad scoring option. Giannis should have played the 5 since 2021 when he fathered Ayton and we won it all.

So Brook being somekind of elite rim protector which helps perimeter defense is just wrong. Brook and Khris are the luckiest mfs in the world playing next to Giannis for so many years. They milked the ef out of him.

Brook is unplayable in 2025.
Portis is still in the game cause of his eyes and nose and passion to grab boards. He is a capable 3p shooter as well and has more gas in the tank than Brook. I think Portis has 2 more years being usefull in any team.
There will be a team to offer Portis a 2/40M contract , I am absolutely sure of it.

This is off base mr. Fotis... teams that play small ball will sometimes run him off the floor but not all teams do that. Brook is a luxury to have vs teams that play big. If he's cool with it, let his minutes fluctuate vs small teams and frame it to him as a way to stay fresh all year.