PG (Knicks): Scottie Hurt

[ontnut]

"It was the perfect loss. It was super entertaining and the Raptors played pretty well against a team that's been playing really well and came up a little bit short. And we're back, baby. We're back in the bottom four, which is where we want to be come draft lottery time." - Matt Bonner today on The Raptors Show (December 10).

He's made very similar comments recently and is definitely pro-tank, which we should be with this insane draft coming up. A top five pick will really accelerate the rebuild and make us competitive and ultimately a contender much sooner than anticipated.

Is the draft as insane as people think?

Cooper is the consensus #1, but does he project to be better than peak AD/Embiid who were recent big men #1s?

Or is it just a very deep draft with good to very good players, but no elite superstar talent?

scottie's draft was projected to one of those "generational" ones.

draft has a bunch of good players but none that have stood out in a classic superstar sense - those that can iso you in the half court and take over games to win. they are all still on their rookie contracts so it takes time, maybe someone blossoms but as of right now, none of those guys are it.

then you have folks saying the banchero draft is weaker, which it is but banchero would be taken over anybody in scottie's draft. so it's really a lot of luck and randomness.

I think Banchero AND Holmgren go over everyone in the Scottie draft. Maybe not Mobley since he's quite similar to Chet but can play more D on the perimeter. And then of course there's JDub.

[phanman]

the KAT trade was a no brainer for me. Randle isn't very good and DDV is a role player, getting an all-nba level center who is a good fit for that package is insane value.

The Mikal trade is where i think they messed up. Traded all their available assets. Bridges is a good player, no doubt. But you already have OG and Hart on the wings, why trade your full cabinet for a redundancy.

I'm convinced if the Towns trade happened first, they wouldn't have made the move for Bridges.

Agree on Kat trade, but because they traded two for one, it affected their depth. I agree on the Bridges trade too. I was high on it when it went down but his play hasn't lived up to the cost, despite the threes last night. Remember when there were debates a few years ago whether OG or Phoenix Bridges was the best wing defender in the league. Bridges D isn't at that level anymore. He's also not the 25 ppg scorer he was right after the KD trade. Knicks would've been better to acquire an offensive wing player . But I'm saying that with hindsight I know.

They should've saved that Bridges package for Butler, who probably would've cost HALF what Bridges did.
reunite Butler/Towns/Thibs for the lulz. That perimeter D with him and OG would've been crazy.

I have to believe that the Brunson extension was contingent on the team trading for Bridges because it all really doesn't add up

Once MRob comes back, they are at least 8 deep along with McBridge and Precious.

[MainEvent]

Entertaining game.

Darko was about to play it out down 2 with a 3.5 second dif ala Casey lmao. All they had to do was shoot it with a second on the 24 and hit rim and the game was over or they would have 1 second maybe?

The alternative doesn't seem better -- commit an intentional foul that likely leads to a two possession game.

they didn't milk the clock like I'm saying they could have. but if they did I'd much rather them at the line where they were missing all game down 2pts with 20 seconds left than down 2 with 2 seconds (they could also score here so we're down 2 possessions with 2 seconds or we don't rebound it cleanly and game is over)

but we saw how it played out and they shot it with 8 seconds left so it woulda worked out if he missed

[ATLTimekeeper]

It kind of just seems like you don't agree with what the company line is now (pro-tank) because you don't like tanking, despite formerly agreeing with past company lines (culture plus compete) because you liked that.

Correct. I'm not sure what the observation is supposed to reveal, though. Sometimes I support what the team is doing and sometimes I don't. That's what most of us do. I'm not the media, though. I consume the product. I think it's a bad producer that tells you that the thing you are consuming is supposed to be bad because it might lead to a better product down the road.

Also the bolded makes it seem like you think they are trying to sell a tank to distract from the bad basketball being played. But it's been pretty apparent the season was going to go this way since before it even started (org messaging on this dates back to at least June).

I'm sure you know this, but not everyone that tunes in hangs on the word of the team. Some people just tune in or buy tickets because they want to see the Raptors beat the Knicks. Or they just want to see the Raptors win, period. They don't think about 17 year old boys that can rescue the franchise. When Leo or anyone celebrates a loss, I think it's a slap in the face to those who want to see them win.

IMO this FO always likes to position themselves to chase the next opportunity to grab a superstar (Batman) player. There have been past instances of a trade being the next opportunity, but I think in the present, Masai and Bobby believe the 2025 draft (and probably 2026 too based on org messaging) represents the next opportunity available to them. They are very openly high on the next 2 drafts, specifically in relation to them containing "franchise changing talents."

You might be right, but that makes them even more dumb for trying. We know what the odds are.

[Jerry Lucas]

Correct. I'm not sure what the observation is supposed to reveal, though. Sometimes I support what the team is doing and sometimes I don't. That's what most of us do. I'm not the media, though. I consume the product. I think it's a bad producer that tells you that the thing you are consuming is supposed to be bad because it might lead to a better product down the road.

I'm sure you know this, but not everyone that tunes in hangs on the word of the team. Some people just tune in or buy tickets because they want to see the Raptors beat the Knicks. Or they just want to see the Raptors win, period. They don't think about 17 year old boys that can rescue the franchise. When Leo or anyone celebrates a loss, I think it's a slap in the face to those who want to see them win.

I guess some of us just want the product to be "building towards creating and then eventually maintaining a sustainable championship contender", while others just want the product to simply be "avoid putting a losing product on the floor." It is what it is, but Masai definitely doesn't want to just simply avoid putting a losing product on the floor.

You might be right, but that makes them even more dumb for trying. We know what the odds are.

However low you may think the odds are of landing a Batman level superstar in 1 of the next 2 draft cycles, Masai likely thinks the odds are even lower of landing one via trade in the same time frame. And we all know free agency isn't an option to land this type of superstar for Toronto.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I guess some of us just want the product to be "building towards creating and then eventually maintaining a sustainable championship contender", while others just want the product to simply be "avoid putting a losing product on the floor." It is what it is, but Masai definitely doesn't want to just simply avoid putting a losing product on the floor.

I want them to build a sustainable championship contender, too. They can do it while also avoiding putting a losing product on the floor, just as others have. And if they happen to suck from trying, make sure you have your picks and hope for the best in the draft.

However low you may think the odds are of landing a Batman level superstar in 1 of the next 2 draft cycles, Masai likely thinks the odds are even lower of landing one via trade in the same time frame. And we all know free agency isn't an option to land this type of superstar for Toronto.

Enh, why does this player have to be added within the next two years? I'm not following. The odds of adding this player are low either way, we all know that. Some players now dream of playing for the Raptors, so I'm not ruling out free agency. We have one. This same player was once considered one of the best prospects since LeBron when he was in high school (who was actually the second Canadian to be labelled as the best prospect since LeBron). This is maybe reason to be less bullish on draft hype or the confidence that you think the Raptors have in the next two drafts.

For me, I think the Raptors management messed up badly enough that they were resigned to this outcome, and they are trying to pull wool over a lot of eyes that this is the best way to do this. They'll gladly tag onto OKC's success if it makes people ignore that they can't close games or are getting waxed by OKC. They'll gladly say the draft is the only way they can add special players when they actually added the best talent the Raptors have ever had via trade (and then cleared cap and chased away two ring winning bigs in order to chase Giannis).

[OhCanada]

I guess some of us just want the product to be "building towards creating and then eventually maintaining a sustainable championship contender", while others just want the product to simply be "avoid putting a losing product on the floor." It is what it is, but Masai definitely doesn't want to just simply avoid putting a losing product on the floor.

I want them to build a sustainable championship contender, too. They can do it while also avoiding putting a losing product on the floor, just as others have. And if they happen to suck from trying, make sure you have your picks and hope for the best in the draft.

However low you may think the odds are of landing a Batman level superstar in 1 of the next 2 draft cycles, Masai likely thinks the odds are even lower of landing one via trade in the same time frame. And we all know free agency isn't an option to land this type of superstar for Toronto.

Enh, why does this player have to be added within the next two years? I'm not following. The odds of adding this player are low either way, we all know that. Some players now dream of playing for the Raptors, so I'm not ruling out free agency. We have one. This same player was once considered one of the best prospects since LeBron when he was in high school (who was actually the second Canadian to be labelled as the best prospect since LeBron). This is maybe reason to be less bullish on draft hype or the confidence that you think the Raptors have in the next two drafts.

For me, I think the Raptors management messed up badly enough that they were resigned to this outcome, and they are trying to pull wool over a lot of eyes that this is the best way to do this. They'll gladly tag onto OKC's success if it makes people ignore that they can't close games or are getting waxed by OKC. They'll gladly say the draft is the only way they can add special players when they actually added the best talent the Raptors have ever had via trade (and then cleared cap and chased away two ring winning bigs in order to chase Giannis).

Steph Curry got picked 7th overall and was drafted to a talented GSW team. Very similar to this Toronto team. Giannis got drafted I think 16th or 18th. Jokic got drafted 41st. SGA got drafted 11th. Tatum drafted 3rd. Doncic got drafted 3rd. Thats probably the 6 best players in the league and none of them were 1st overall picks. Theres AD who was 1st overall and of course Lebron and Wemby but point is you don't need a high pick to land the true franchise players. This draft has alot of talent. Next draft is even better. A top 5 pick could land a franchise changing talent.