Did Shai surpass Jayson Tatum last year

[Lo Wang]

Most people think Shai is better not because they don't like Boston but because the eye test tells a lot. Boston obviously has a way better team with more proven vets, when Tatum doesn't play well the other guys can take over for him. Shai always plays good lol if he doesnt no one can replicate what he does.

BOS won and he wasn't even their best player so the argument for/against team success is flawed. The Cs are way further along in thier development. 10 years from now OKC could end up with more chips

Tatum has taken two different versions of the Celtics, lesser talented versions, to 4 conference finals and a finals.


Why do we forget that things happened after last season?

Could it be that the Celtics dominated because Tatum who has shown near championship level player on multiple rosters throughout his career, has a team around him?

This is ceiling raising. Not carrying. If Tatum hasn't done **** prior, fine...

But he's a conference finals MVP, and lead two different teams to 4 conference finals and a finals before they stacked the roster around him.

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I disagree that hes "lead" these teams as you say. Hes definitely the most talented player on Boston and he's had games where he's been their best player but they never seem to be at the most important times. Theres no denying how good the Cs are. Those lesser teams still had Jalen Brown on them and were always near the top of the east.

With respect to the thread, Shai is playing in a much tougher conference, has less proven talent on his team which is also much earlier in its developmental process.

I've always liked Tatum but it feels like he needs to take better shots and be more efficient. It kinda feels like hes not that clutch either

I don't understand why the Celtics and Cavs are seen as the best teams when really it's the West teams that are the most competitive.

They have the best records because they are essentially playing teams that are 8 seeds in the West.

[Lo Wang]

That's a bit of a silly question. It's fundamentally unfair that guys go to the line without actually being fouled, especially when a good defender picks up a phantom foul that counts towards his limit. It's even worse with SGA because unlike most superstars he does a lot of grabbing on the perimeter when he's defending.

If the ref is calling phantom fouls, that's his fault.

If SGA is grabbing other players, that is a foul. A non call is still a bad call.

Again, how is it SGA's fault when the ref's control the whistle?

It doesn't matter who controls it, the point is that it results in an unfair advantage. The question in this thread is who is better. If one of them is receiving an unfair advantage, it impacts the answer.

How is it an unfair advantage when any player can do what SGA does?

I'm not trolling. Just questioning your logic.

[jbk1234]

If the ref is calling phantom fouls, that's his fault.

If SGA is grabbing other players, that is a foul. A non call is still a bad call.

Again, how is it SGA's fault when the ref's control the whistle?

It doesn't matter who controls it, the point is that it results in an unfair advantage. The question in this thread is who is better. If one of them is receiving an unfair advantage, it impacts the answer.

How is it an unfair advantage when any player can do what SGA does?

I'm not trolling. Just questioning your logic.

Because the other player isn't getting those calls, and/or is getting called for grabbing on the perimeter. That's what makes it unfair. It's pretty straightforward.

[Lalouie]

did he win a ring yet

[srhcan]

SGA > Tatum

[JustBuzzin]

Lil bro win a ring

Can't talk to big bro when he got the ring.

[JustBuzzin]

SGA > Tatum

In real life nah

In 2k maybe

[srhcan]

SGA > Tatum

In real life nah

In 2k maybe

In both real life and 2K. And it happened last year and this year is just a continuation of the same thing.

[JustBuzzin]

SGA > Tatum

In real life nah

In 2k maybe

In both real life and 2K. And it happened last year and this year is just a continuation of the same thing.

Tatum won a ring and a gold medal.

OKC got bounced early in the playoffs. SGA led Canada to nothing in the Olympics.

What you on bro?

[tsherkin]

Lil bro win a ring

Can't talk to big bro when he got the ring.

In real life nah

In 2k maybe

In both real life and 2K. And it happened last year and this year is just a continuation of the same thing.

Tatum won a ring and a gold medal.

OKC got bounced early in the playoffs. SGA led Canada to nothing in the Olympics.

What you on bro?

You understand how empty and absent substance these are as arguments for player comparison, right?

You're talking about team achievements with guys who don't have equal team context. Leave that nonsense to the 9 year-olds in the yard, man. That's where it belongs.

[Lo Wang]

It doesn't matter who controls it, the point is that it results in an unfair advantage. The question in this thread is who is better. If one of them is receiving an unfair advantage, it impacts the answer.

How is it an unfair advantage when any player can do what SGA does?

I'm not trolling. Just questioning your logic.

Because the other player isn't getting those calls, and/or is getting called for grabbing on the perimeter. That's what makes it unfair. It's pretty straightforward.

That's the ref's fault.

[PhilBlackson]

As individual players, give me SGA.

People are using TEAM accolades to dispute a discussion on individual players. Is Tatum better than Jokic or Giannis if he gets a second ring & has a gold medal over them?! lol.

I'm not for a second saying there isn't an argument for JT but I just like SGA's ability to create a lot more that I would trust more in crunch time. It's not impossible for Tatum to flip the script with a strong performance in the Finals this year but his previous 2 Finals appearances left a lot to be desired. Obviously SGA hasn't gotten there yet but I'd be quite shocked tbh if his scoring numbers dropped anywhere near as much as Tatum's did in both of his.

[Ssj16]

What lol??? Tons of examples of this not happening. Jordan was 27 when he made his first finals. Kobe didn’t do jack the 05+06+07 seasons until Gasol got there. Two beat downs in 1st round and one year missing playoffs. Wade didn’t make the finals . Wade won in year 3 but didn’t make the finals the other 6 seasons he played pre Heatles era… this is a weird criteria.

SGA likely has a 10 year prime still left. Lots of years.

For the record, the year Lakers got Gasol, Im pretty sure they were first in the west. Did getting Gasol put them over the top? Absolutely, but some people like to always diminish Kobe's accomplishments. Not saying that you are doing this, btw.

Just looked it up, they were tied for 4th in the West as of February 2nd 2008 (Pau joined them on the 3rd), so just a middle seed. They were 4 games behind 1st seed at 45 games into the season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2008_standings_by_date_western_conference.html

I stand corrected about the Lakers being in 1st before the trade but they were tied for 4th being 3 games back from first place before they got Gasol. I'm just debunking the rhetoric that Kobe was having zero success without Gasol.

Obviously Gasol put them over the top.

[Doranku]

For the record, the year Lakers got Gasol, Im pretty sure they were first in the west. Did getting Gasol put them over the top? Absolutely, but some people like to always diminish Kobe's accomplishments. Not saying that you are doing this, btw.

Just looked it up, they were tied for 4th in the West as of February 2nd 2008 (Pau joined them on the 3rd), so just a middle seed. They were 4 games behind 1st seed at 45 games into the season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2008_standings_by_date_western_conference.html

I stand corrected about the Lakers being in 1st before the trade but they were tied for 4th being 3 games back from first place before they got Gasol. I'm just debunking the rhetoric that Kobe was having zero success without Gasol.

Obviously Gasol put them over the top.

The Lakers won their first game without Bynum after he went down for the season to put them at #1 in the West for a few days. After that they slipped in the standings until the Pau trade. Probably what you're thinking of.

[CptCrunch]

Shai is better than Tatum.

But they are close enough that if your team needs a 3/4 wing or a 1 guard determines who you want.

[HotRocks34]

No. Shai is Embiid. Complete with blowing the #1 seed last year. Regular season powerhouses that fade in the postseason.

Tatum has proven more.

[Ssj16]

Just looked it up, they were tied for 4th in the West as of February 2nd 2008 (Pau joined them on the 3rd), so just a middle seed. They were 4 games behind 1st seed at 45 games into the season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2008_standings_by_date_western_conference.html

I stand corrected about the Lakers being in 1st before the trade but they were tied for 4th being 3 games back from first place before they got Gasol. I'm just debunking the rhetoric that Kobe was having zero success without Gasol.

Obviously Gasol put them over the top.

The Lakers won their first game without Bynum after he went down for the season to put them at #1 in the West for a few days. After that they slipped in the standings until the Pau trade. Probably what you're thinking of.

That could be it. It was so long ago but I remember Kobe putting in work with that Laker team, pre Gasol trade.

[Ssj16]

No. Shai is Embiid. Complete with blowing the #1 seed last year. Regular season powerhouses that fade in the postseason.

Tatum has proven more.

Shai is most certainly not Embiid. Shai was impressive last year in the playoffs from what I recalled. Shai also was very impressive in the Olympics and unlike NBA couldn't fall back on a hall of fame team.

Embiid definitely has more to prove in the playoffs at this point in time based on all his poor performances.

[Sweet Serenity]

Tatum has taken two different versions of the Celtics, lesser talented versions, to 4 conference finals and a finals.


Why do we forget that things happened after last season?

Could it be that the Celtics dominated because Tatum who has shown near championship level player on multiple rosters throughout his career, has a team around him?

This is ceiling raising. Not carrying. If Tatum hasn't done **** prior, fine...

But he's a conference finals MVP, and lead two different teams to 4 conference finals and a finals before they stacked the roster around him.

Sent from my SM-G975U using RealGM mobile app

I disagree that hes "lead" these teams as you say. Hes definitely the most talented player on Boston and he's had games where he's been their best player but they never seem to be at the most important times. Theres no denying how good the Cs are. Those lesser teams still had Jalen Brown on them and were always near the top of the east.

With respect to the thread, Shai is playing in a much tougher conference, has less proven talent on his team which is also much earlier in its developmental process.

I've always liked Tatum but it feels like he needs to take better shots and be more efficient. It kinda feels like hes not that clutch either

I don't understand why the Celtics and Cavs are seen as the best teams when really it's the West teams that are the most competitive.

They have the best records because they are essentially playing teams that are 8 seeds in the West.

Boston are the champs, OKC got bounced in the second round. Until OKC proves it in the playoffs, they aren’t better than Boston.

[HotRocks34]

No. Shai is Embiid. Complete with blowing the #1 seed last year. Regular season powerhouses that fade in the postseason.

Tatum has proven more.

Shai is most certainly not Embiid. Shai was impressive last year in the playoffs from what I recalled. Shai also was very impressive in the Olympics and unlike NBA couldn't fall back on a hall of fame team.

Embiid definitely has more to prove in the playoffs at this point in time based on all his poor performances.

Shai has proven absolutely nothing when it matters and had a negative On Off in the playoffs last year.

He's Embiid until he shows otherwise. A guy who maxes out in the regular season but who can't make it past the second round when it counts even on a #1 seed.