Heat/Warriors/Raptors - Butler to GS

[islandboy53]

Some assumptions: The Warriors want Butler, Butler is willing to go to GS, the Warriors intend to retain Kuminga, Miami doesn't want Melton's $12.8 million dead salary.

Notes: Miami must send out more salary than it takes in, and GS is is only $500k from the 1st apron hard cap. A 3rd team is needed to make this work.

The proposed trade:

Golden State Out: Wiggins, Melton, Payton, Looney, 25 1st, 27 1st, 26 Atl 2nd, 28 Atl 2nd
Golden State In: Butler, Burks, Bryant, Temple

Miami Out: Butler, Burks, Bryant, 26 LAL 2nd
Miami In: Wiggins, Brown, Fernando, 25 GS 1st, 27 GS 1st

Toronto Out: Brown, Fernando, Temple
Toronto In: Melton, Payton, Looney, 26 Atl 2nd, 26 LAL 2nd, 28 Atl 2nd

The Warriors acquire Butler while retaining Kuminga and generating an extra $1 million wiggle room under the 1st apron, and 3 trade exceptions. Basically, they get Butler for Wiggins, 2 1sts and 2 2nds. Add protections on the 1sts as you see fit.

Miami moves on from Butler, while maintaining a competitive roster this year. Brown's expiring salary gives them a fair bit of flexibility next year, and the 1st rounders should help them reload quickly. They drop $3.6 million in total salary, with a corresponding drop in their tax bill, and also generate a substantial trade exception. The Lakers 2nd rounder is the easiest thing to send to Toronto to make rosters work.

Toronto receives 3 2nd rounders as a return for Brown, and for taking on Melton's dead salary.

[Chris Porter's Hair]

No thanks. I'm not sure this makes us better, while making us older, costing us a bunch of draft picks, and putting us in a position to overpay for Butler.

I'd like to have another star. I'm just not seeing anything that makes sense where that star is Butler.

[NW]

My guess is any Warriors interest in Butler will be if they are ready to move on from Kuminga. Seriously doubt they’re up for giving up a bunch of draft capital and have to pay Butler and Kuminga in the offseason

[gswhoops]

Despite the narrow parameters, there's actually a couple options for GS and Miami to thread the needle here (for example, Butler/Richardson/Burks/Bryant for Wiggins/Melton/GP2/Kuminga works, as does Butler for Wiggins/Melton/GP2). So a third team isn't strictly necessary. This isn't terrible value though - a couple seconds to turn a useless expiring into a useful one.

My guess is any Warriors interest in Butler will be if they are ready to move on from Kuminga. Seriously doubt they’re up for giving up a bunch of draft capital and have to pay Butler and Kuminga in the offseason

Yeah. I think the core concept here is flawed. Butler and Kuminga are an awkward fit together on-court and would put us right back in luxury tax hell. If we make a move here I'm guessing the plan is to use Kuminga as the incentive and keep our picks, not the other way around.

[MessiahUjiri]

Kuminga has to go to Miami instead of draft capital.


I agree on the 3 team premise. Brown to Miami is interesting as he expires and Miami can attract free agents.



Rework the OP to take out 1sts and Looney maybe.

[BBallFreak]

Not interested in the proposal without Kuminga.

[the_process]

EDIT:

DET gets Melton and ATL 2nd (via GSW)
GSW gets Butler, Burks, and Bryant
MIA gets Kuminga, Wiggins, Payton Jr., and 25 GSW 1st top 4 protected

[BBallFreak]

DET gets Melton and ATL 2nd (via GSW)
GSW gets Butler, Burks, and Richardson
MIA gets Kuminga, Wiggins, Payton Jr., and 25 GSW 1st

This is the sort of deal I'm envisioning.

[gswhoops]

DET gets Melton and ATL 2nd (via GSW)
GSW gets Butler, Burks, and Richardson
MIA gets Kuminga, Wiggins, Payton Jr., and 25 GSW 1st

This is the sort of deal I'm envisioning.

Yeah same. I don't love giving up a 1st and Kuminga but I also wouldn't ultimately be that mad about it. Just depends on who haggles better on the phone.

Also, if it's all the same to you, would love to get Bryant back as one of the vet min guys instead of two shooting guards just for a little positional diversity.

[islandboy53]

Despite the narrow parameters, there's actually a couple options for GS and Miami to thread the needle here (for example, Butler/Richardson/Burks/Bryant for Wiggins/Melton/GP2/Kuminga works, as does Butler for Wiggins/Melton/GP2). So a third team isn't strictly necessary. This isn't terrible value though - a couple seconds to turn a useless expiring into a useful one.

My guess is any Warriors interest in Butler will be if they are ready to move on from Kuminga. Seriously doubt they’re up for giving up a bunch of draft capital and have to pay Butler and Kuminga in the offseason

Yeah. I think the core concept here is flawed. Butler and Kuminga are an awkward fit together on-court and would put us right back in luxury tax hell. If we make a move here I'm guessing the plan is to use Kuminga as the incentive and keep our picks, not the other way around.

Threading the needle on a straight Heat/Warriors trade involves Miami accepting Melton, which seems unlikely. If we want to send Kuminga, the deal can restructure as follows. Miami may need a 1st from GS, but for now I'm including the Atlanta 2nd. The Warriors retain Looney, Heat have less expiring salary coming back, but a bigger tax savings. Toronto sends out Boucher rather than Brown, so gets 1 less 2nd.

Golden State Out: Wiggins, Melton, Payton, Kuminga, 26 Atl 2nd, 28 Atl 2nd
Golden State In: Butler, Burks, Temple, Fernando

Miami Out: Butler, Burks, 26 LAL 2nd
Miami In: Wiggins, Boucher, Kuminga, 28 Atl 2nd

Toronto Out: Boucher, Temple, Fernando
Toronto In: Melton, Payton, 26 Atl 2nd, 26 LAL 2nd,

[giberish]

Threading the needle on a straight Heat/Warriors trade involves Miami accepting Melton, which seems unlikely. ,

IMO this doesn't make sense. Melton's pretty inoffensive salary filler as an EC. I can't see Miami being crushed that one of the guys taken back just to match salaries is a dead-weight EC. For Maimi he wouldn't be the point of the deal at all, just matching salary that isn't a long-term problem.

Sure, maybe someone provides incentive to a 3rd team to swap Melton for a smaller contract to make the money work easier but I can't imagine Melton being a big deal to Miami.

[NW]

Despite the narrow parameters, there's actually a couple options for GS and Miami to thread the needle here (for example, Butler/Richardson/Burks/Bryant for Wiggins/Melton/GP2/Kuminga works, as does Butler for Wiggins/Melton/GP2). So a third team isn't strictly necessary. This isn't terrible value though - a couple seconds to turn a useless expiring into a useful one.

My guess is any Warriors interest in Butler will be if they are ready to move on from Kuminga. Seriously doubt they’re up for giving up a bunch of draft capital and have to pay Butler and Kuminga in the offseason

Yeah. I think the core concept here is flawed. Butler and Kuminga are an awkward fit together on-court and would put us right back in luxury tax hell. If we make a move here I'm guessing the plan is to use Kuminga as the incentive and keep our picks, not the other way around.

Threading the needle on a straight Heat/Warriors trade involves Miami accepting Melton, which seems unlikely. If we want to send Kuminga, the deal can restructure as follows. Miami may need a 1st from GS, but for now I'm including the Atlanta 2nd. The Warriors retain Looney, Heat have less expiring salary coming back, but a bigger tax savings. Toronto sends out Boucher rather than Brown, so gets 1 less 2nd.

Golden State Out: Wiggins, Melton, Payton, Kuminga, 26 Atl 2nd, 28 Atl 2nd
Golden State In: Butler, Burks, Temple, Fernando

Miami Out: Butler, Burks, 26 LAL 2nd
Miami In: Wiggins, Boucher, Kuminga, 28 Atl 2nd

Toronto Out: Boucher, Temple, Fernando
Toronto In: Melton, Payton, 26 Atl 2nd, 26 LAL 2nd,

Failing to see why a third team is needed or why Miami would have such an issue with Melton’s expiring deal

[islandboy53]

DET gets Melton and ATL 2nd (via GSW)
GSW gets Butler, Burks, and Richardson
MIA gets Kuminga, Wiggins, Payton Jr., and 25 GSW 1st

This is the sort of deal I'm envisioning.

A good idea, except that Detroit only has $10.2 million in cap room, so they have to send out at least $2.6 million in salary. Sasser, at $2.7 million, works. I'm not sure that the Pistons want to give up Sasser, who seems to be playing okay for them, and use their entire cap space, for a 2nd.

[Godaddycurse]

DET gets Melton and ATL 2nd (via GSW)
GSW gets Butler, Burks, and Richardson
MIA gets Kuminga, Wiggins, Payton Jr., and 25 GSW 1st

This is the sort of deal I'm envisioning.

takes more than a 2nd to eat Melton's contract.

[islandboy53]

Despite the narrow parameters, there's actually a couple options for GS and Miami to thread the needle here (for example, Butler/Richardson/Burks/Bryant for Wiggins/Melton/GP2/Kuminga works, as does Butler for Wiggins/Melton/GP2). So a third team isn't strictly necessary. This isn't terrible value though - a couple seconds to turn a useless expiring into a useful one.


Yeah. I think the core concept here is flawed. Butler and Kuminga are an awkward fit together on-court and would put us right back in luxury tax hell. If we make a move here I'm guessing the plan is to use Kuminga as the incentive and keep our picks, not the other way around.

Threading the needle on a straight Heat/Warriors trade involves Miami accepting Melton, which seems unlikely. If we want to send Kuminga, the deal can restructure as follows. Miami may need a 1st from GS, but for now I'm including the Atlanta 2nd. The Warriors retain Looney, Heat have less expiring salary coming back, but a bigger tax savings. Toronto sends out Boucher rather than Brown, so gets 1 less 2nd.

Golden State Out: Wiggins, Melton, Payton, Kuminga, 26 Atl 2nd, 28 Atl 2nd
Golden State In: Butler, Burks, Temple, Fernando

Miami Out: Butler, Burks, 26 LAL 2nd
Miami In: Wiggins, Boucher, Kuminga, 28 Atl 2nd

Toronto Out: Boucher, Temple, Fernando
Toronto In: Melton, Payton, 26 Atl 2nd, 26 LAL 2nd,

Failing to see why a third team is needed or why Miami would have such an issue with Melton’s expiring deal

It's a very fine needle to thread. Butler for Wiggins/Melton/GP2 puts GS right at the 1st apron hard cap with 3 roster spots to fill, so it actually won't work. The other suggestion does, though. It leaves Miami hard capped at the 2nd apron, and just over a million under. They play out the season and have a little over $20 million in expirings to accommodate Kuminga's new deal. Depending how that sorts out, they're almost certainly over the 1st apron, which is a challenge for any scenario involving Kuminga coming back.

[islandboy53]

DET gets Melton and ATL 2nd (via GSW)
GSW gets Butler, Burks, and Richardson
MIA gets Kuminga, Wiggins, Payton Jr., and 25 GSW 1st

This is the sort of deal I'm envisioning.

takes more than a 2nd to eat Melton's contract.

Indeed. My original proposal envisioned GP2 and Looney as movable pieces with enough value to take it on. Otherwise, the deal was really Brown for the LAL 2nd, which is very light.

[jayjaysee]

EDIT:

DET gets Melton and ATL 2nd (via GSW)
GSW gets Butler, Burks, and Bryant
MIA gets Kuminga, Wiggins, Payton Jr., and 25 GSW 1st top 4 protected

I think it’s close to that but with Washington and GP instead of Detroit and Melton.. And Washington has a nice TPE to save Miami a lot of tax money.

If Miami wants to actually get under the tax in a follow up deal, they can shave some money in a Duncan or Wiggins deal.

[NW]

Threading the needle on a straight Heat/Warriors trade involves Miami accepting Melton, which seems unlikely. If we want to send Kuminga, the deal can restructure as follows. Miami may need a 1st from GS, but for now I'm including the Atlanta 2nd. The Warriors retain Looney, Heat have less expiring salary coming back, but a bigger tax savings. Toronto sends out Boucher rather than Brown, so gets 1 less 2nd.

Golden State Out: Wiggins, Melton, Payton, Kuminga, 26 Atl 2nd, 28 Atl 2nd
Golden State In: Butler, Burks, Temple, Fernando

Miami Out: Butler, Burks, 26 LAL 2nd
Miami In: Wiggins, Boucher, Kuminga, 28 Atl 2nd

Toronto Out: Boucher, Temple, Fernando
Toronto In: Melton, Payton, 26 Atl 2nd, 26 LAL 2nd,

Failing to see why a third team is needed or why Miami would have such an issue with Melton’s expiring deal

It's a very fine needle to thread. Butler for Wiggins/Melton/GP2 puts GS right at the 1st apron hard cap with 3 roster spots to fill, so it actually won't work. The other suggestion does, though. It leaves Miami hard capped at the 2nd apron, and just over a million under. They play out the season and have a little over $20 million in expirings to accommodate Kuminga's new deal. Depending how that sorts out, they're almost certainly over the 1st apron, which is a challenge for any scenario involving Kuminga coming back.

1. Heat ain’t doing Wiggins/Melton/GP2 anyway without Kuminga or a ton of picks.

2. Heat got a bunch of 2-3 mil contracts like Love, Richardson, Burks, Larssen and Bryant that can be added, along with Kuminga to make an even 4 for 4 swap with contracts a near match. All expirings but Wiggins, who if Miami wanted to move him, would not have a tough time of it the way he’s playing so far this year imo.

[DonaldSanders]

DET gets Melton and ATL 2nd (via GSW)
GSW gets Butler, Burks, and Richardson
MIA gets Kuminga, Wiggins, Payton Jr., and 25 GSW 1st

This is the sort of deal I'm envisioning.

Yeah same. I don't love giving up a 1st and Kuminga but I also wouldn't ultimately be that mad about it. Just depends on who haggles better on the phone.

Also, if it's all the same to you, would love to get Bryant back as one of the vet min guys instead of two shooting guards just for a little positional diversity.

That general framework is a possibility, but I cannot see GSW giving up both Wiggins and GPII in any deal. Wiggins obviously has to be in for salary purposes, but I think Kyle Anderson has to be swapped for GPII. There's no way the Warriors give up both of their top 2 perimeter defenders.

[islandboy53]

This is the sort of deal I'm envisioning.

Yeah same. I don't love giving up a 1st and Kuminga but I also wouldn't ultimately be that mad about it. Just depends on who haggles better on the phone.

Also, if it's all the same to you, would love to get Bryant back as one of the vet min guys instead of two shooting guards just for a little positional diversity.

That general framework is a possibility, but I cannot see GSW giving up both Wiggins and GPII in any deal. Wiggins obviously has to be in for salary purposes, but I think Kyle Anderson has to be swapped for GPII. There's no way the Warriors give up both of their top 2 perimeter defenders.

As noted elsewhere in the thread, taking on Melton's $12.8 million dead salary will take more than a 2nd. Also, taking on Anderson's $9.2 million in 25/26 will require compensation, as will whatever player Detroit sends out to create enough room to take on Melton.