Keepers?

[HomoSapien]

I voted for Ayo and Smith. Both are out producing their contracts significantly and are still young. Coby has zero votes right now, but I assume we are all in the same headspace. If he can bring back a valuable pick or an intriguing young wing/big you listen. If he can't, you happily keep him.

[drosestruts]

While I'd trade anyone on this roster. One thing I like to look at when looking at players is - do they do anything at an elite level.

Zach LaVine is a 3-level scorer with elite efficiency on high volume

Patrick Williams in 2022-23 graded as the best iso defender in the entire NBA. That doesn't show up in your typical box score, but is clearly elite. He's also shot 39% or higher from 3 every year of his career. Williams has his warts and leaves you wanting more - but he does bring an elite skill to the table.

Ayo Dosunmu - Ayo is shooting 72% from 0-3 feet (which accounts for 40% of his FGA). This is Ja Morant/Donovan Mitchell levels of elite for a guard. He's also shown good defense and good passing.


Aside from these 3, I wouldn't describe anyone else as having an elite skill. Closest argument would be Vuc for defensive rebounding and scoring (this season) - but due to his age, that's kind of irrelevant. Giddey is a good not elite passer.

Lonzo could be another potential option, but too big of a question mark.

So my closest to keepers would be Zach, Williams, and Ayo.

[Guru]

While I'd trade anyone on this roster. One thing I like to look at when looking at players is - do they do anything at an elite level.

Zach LaVine is a 3-level scorer with elite efficiency on high volume

Patrick Williams in 2022-23 graded as the best iso defender in the entire NBA. That doesn't show up in your typical box score, but is clearly elite. He's also shot 39% or higher from 3 every year of his career. Williams has his warts and leaves you wanting more - but he does bring an elite skill to the table.

Ayo Dosunmu - Ayo is shooting 72% from 0-3 feet (which accounts for 40% of his FGA). This is Ja Morant/Donovan Mitchell levels of elite for a guard. He's also shown good defense and good passing.


Aside from these 3, I wouldn't describe anyone else as having an elite skill. Closest argument would be Vuc for defensive rebounding and scoring (this season) - but due to his age, that's kind of irrelevant. Giddey is a good not elite passer.

Lonzo could be another potential option, but too big of a question mark.

So my closest to keepers would be Zach, Williams, and Ayo.

Giddey is an elite rebounder for his position

[kodo]

Giddey is an elite passer. 11.6 assists per 100 possessions.
For comparison, Luka Doncic is 10.6.

What's even crazier is that he's 6th on the team in Usage%, where as everyone else at the top of the league is easily #1 on their team in usage.

[ChettheJet]

I'm saying Goodbye to Vuc, Zach and Terry. If Vuc was an average defender the others wouldn't be covering for him so much. Imagine Zach with the personality and leadership skills of Caruso or DeRozan, you'd have one helluva team built around him. But he just doesn't have that in him. Terry plays fast, still a little out of control good on ball defender and still isn't a shooter.

I want the others because of what they aren't or haven't done.They haven't signed an overpriced contract, they aren't too small for the position they're being used at, maybe they haven't become all stars but they haven't look bad, they could all be healthy, develop the aspects of the NBA game they're short on because they appear to have the physical ability and play hard, they all need more skills that they can still develop. I see a good group that needs a leader, not so much a 30ppg triple double machine but a guy they look up to but don't worship. I saw an article about DeRozan in SAC, their record is worse than the Bulls.

Of the rest. I' take THT or Duarte over Terry, ready to move Carter. and even Craig for as little as he plays

[drosestruts]

Giddey is an elite passer. 11.6 assists per 100 possessions.
For comparison, Luka Doncic is 10.6.

What's even crazier is that he's 6th on the team in Usage%, where as everyone else at the top of the league is easily #1 on their team in usage.

While I'd trade anyone on this roster. One thing I like to look at when looking at players is - do they do anything at an elite level.

Zach LaVine is a 3-level scorer with elite efficiency on high volume

Patrick Williams in 2022-23 graded as the best iso defender in the entire NBA. That doesn't show up in your typical box score, but is clearly elite. He's also shot 39% or higher from 3 every year of his career. Williams has his warts and leaves you wanting more - but he does bring an elite skill to the table.

Ayo Dosunmu - Ayo is shooting 72% from 0-3 feet (which accounts for 40% of his FGA). This is Ja Morant/Donovan Mitchell levels of elite for a guard. He's also shown good defense and good passing.


Aside from these 3, I wouldn't describe anyone else as having an elite skill. Closest argument would be Vuc for defensive rebounding and scoring (this season) - but due to his age, that's kind of irrelevant. Giddey is a good not elite passer.

Lonzo could be another potential option, but too big of a question mark.

So my closest to keepers would be Zach, Williams, and Ayo.

Giddey is an elite rebounder for his position

Fair call on Giddey - at only 22 years old and having those assist:usage numbers and rebounds at his position - I'd add him to the list of almost keepers.

[League Circles]

While I'd trade anyone on this roster. One thing I like to look at when looking at players is - do they do anything at an elite level.

Zach LaVine is a 3-level scorer with elite efficiency on high volume

Patrick Williams in 2022-23 graded as the best iso defender in the entire NBA. That doesn't show up in your typical box score, but is clearly elite. He's also shot 39% or higher from 3 every year of his career. Williams has his warts and leaves you wanting more - but he does bring an elite skill to the table.

Ayo Dosunmu - Ayo is shooting 72% from 0-3 feet (which accounts for 40% of his FGA). This is Ja Morant/Donovan Mitchell levels of elite for a guard. He's also shown good defense and good passing.


Aside from these 3, I wouldn't describe anyone else as having an elite skill. Closest argument would be Vuc for defensive rebounding and scoring (this season) - but due to his age, that's kind of irrelevant. Giddey is a good not elite passer.

Lonzo could be another potential option, but too big of a question mark.

So my closest to keepers would be Zach, Williams, and Ayo.

I like how you're thinking but I would say the key should be prioritizing guys who are elite at one important thing while not being terrible at anything critical.

Zach might fit that description.

I'm one of Patrick's bigger fans but I would not call him an elite defender - merely a "quite good" one. Maybe very good. However, he is not terrible at anything critical.

Ayo is very good at shot selection on his drives which accounts for his great percentages near the hoop. But he's not high volume and won't be IMO. He is definitely not terrible at anything. Our most well rounded player probably.

I think Terry actually has the potential to be an elite defender but I doubt his offense will ever be good enough to gove him a shot as an nba starter.

Coby has an outside chance to be an elite 3 point scorer if he gets a bit more selective. I think his stroke and form are outstanding and he's one of our most competitive players.

Giddey is definitely an elite passer - probably the best of my lifetime for the Bulls. Rondo, Kukoc, Jordan and maybe someone I'm forgetting are up there, but I think he's the best. But he's a very bad defender which is absolutely critical.

Ball was an elite defender. I haven't seen enough of his D this year to have much of an opinion.

Nobody else is in the convo for being elite at any critical skill / advantage IMO.

[drosestruts]

While I'd trade anyone on this roster. One thing I like to look at when looking at players is - do they do anything at an elite level.

Zach LaVine is a 3-level scorer with elite efficiency on high volume

Patrick Williams in 2022-23 graded as the best iso defender in the entire NBA. That doesn't show up in your typical box score, but is clearly elite. He's also shot 39% or higher from 3 every year of his career. Williams has his warts and leaves you wanting more - but he does bring an elite skill to the table.

Ayo Dosunmu - Ayo is shooting 72% from 0-3 feet (which accounts for 40% of his FGA). This is Ja Morant/Donovan Mitchell levels of elite for a guard. He's also shown good defense and good passing.


Aside from these 3, I wouldn't describe anyone else as having an elite skill. Closest argument would be Vuc for defensive rebounding and scoring (this season) - but due to his age, that's kind of irrelevant. Giddey is a good not elite passer.

Lonzo could be another potential option, but too big of a question mark.

So my closest to keepers would be Zach, Williams, and Ayo.

I like how you're thinking but I would say the key should be prioritizing guys who are elite at one important thing while not being terrible at anything critical.

Zach might fit that description.

I'm one of Patrick's bigger fans but I would not call him an elite defender - merely a "quite good" one. Maybe very good. However, he is not terrible at anything critical.

Ayo is very good at shot selection on his drives which accounts for his great percentages near the hoop. But he's not high volume and won't be IMO. He is definitely not terrible at anything. Our most well rounded player probably.

I think Terry actually has the potential to be an elite defender but I doubt his offense will ever be good enough to gove him a shot as an nba starter.

Coby has an outside chance to be an elite 3 point scorer if he gets a bit more selective. I think his stroke and form are outstanding and he's one of our most competitive players.

Giddey is definitely an elite passer - probably the best of my lifetime for the Bulls. Rondo, Kukoc, Jordan and maybe someone I'm forgetting are up there, but I think he's the best. But he's a very bad defender which is absolutely critical.

Ball was an elite defender. I haven't seen enough of his D this year to have much of an opinion.

Nobody else is in the convo for being elite at any critical skill / advantage IMO.

I think it's fair to say Williams is an overall very good defender while being an elite iso defender.

We saw Ayo with increased usage last year (post all-star break was 13 FGA per game scoring 17 points a night). Does Ayo need to shoot more? Depends who we have around him.

Guys like Terry and Coby are to me where you have to draw a line in the sand. You talk about their potential to maybe have an elite skill. For me it has to be binary. Today they don't excel in any one thing.

Zach is an elite high volume score
Patrick is an elite iso defender
Ayo is elite at scoring at the rim
Giddey is an elite passer and rebounder

[GoBlue72391]

None of our players are potential building blocks with the exception of Matas, so he's my only pick to keep. Everyone else either doesn't fit the timeline or is easily replaceable.

- Giddey is still very much a question mark for me. I'll wait until after the season to decide on him.

- I like Ayo a lot, but he's probably reached his ceiling and his archetype isn't too hard to replace. He would be my second choice to keep if I had to pick another.

- Lonzo would be great to retain if he can be had for cheap, but he's missed too much time to ever be relied upon heavily again.

- Coby is a 6th man and we should look to sell high on him.

- Zach and Vuc are good but overpaid and clearly do not fit our timeline.

- Smith is a good backup big, but that's not the type of guy you worry about retaining.

- Pat shouldn't even be here now, he should have been gone long ago.

- Phillips progression on his shot seems to have been a mirage and coupled with his inability to do anything off the dribble that severely limits his ceiling.

- Dalen is a great back end of the rotation defensive versatile player like a Shaq Harrison or David Nwaba, but that's another type of guy you're not going to worry about keeping or not as he can be easily replaced.

No one else is worth mentioning.

[sco]

Our conditional pick traded to SAS is a keeper for sure!

[The Box Office]

The poll is correct.

[kodo]

The board has really soured on Coby compared to this time last year. I'm one of them.
3 votes.

[sco]

The board has really soured on Coby compared to this time last year. I'm one of them.
3 votes.

Yeah, Coby had his "FebruLauri" moment last season so it was easy to get swept up in that.

[Dan Z]

I'm surprised that some of you want to keep Zach. Isn't it time to move on?

[DuckIII]

I'm far enough into the season now that here is how I would like to see it go. Two premises to me:

1. No one is untouchable.

2. But as a practical matter Matas kinda is because its hard to imagine anyone offering anything we would consider reasonable value.

Understanding I'd trade them all, I'd prioritize keeping:

Ayo
Matas
Pat
Smith

All two way players who are and will be very reasonably paid for years, none have reached their ceilings to varying degrees, which is a good core to lose more with for a bit while adding a couple of more young picks. Flexible.

I'd also consider keeping Giddey to be paid like a 6-7th man and Ball on a team friendly deal with team options. But I don't prioritize either, as I want to rebuild the team.

[Onibuh]

I'm surprised that some of you want to keep Zach. Isn't it time to move on?

nah

always easy to tear down the talent and get rid of everything for "tanking". Much harder to get back to be a mediocre or even better team.
Getting 1st overall is not a guarantee of success in the future.

I'd like to keep the players that can help us to get better.

Matas, Ayo, Lavine, Smith. They look like the best pieces to keep around and add to them. Williams can be a good piece, but not sure about his health going forward and being able to play on a winning team as starter.

[DuckIII]

I'm surprised that some of you want to keep Zach. Isn't it time to move on?

nah

always easy to tear down the talent and get rid of everything for "tanking". Much harder to get back to be a mediocre or even better team.
Getting 1st overall is not a guarantee of success in the future.

I'd like to keep the players that can help us to get better.

Matas, Ayo, Lavine, Smith. They look like the best pieces to keep around and add to them. Williams can be a good piece, but not sure about his health going forward and being able to play on a winning team as starter.

It’s not at all hard to “get back to” being a sub .500 irrelevant borderline playoff team in a league in which 20 of 30 teams play postseason games. It’s about as hard as falling off a log.

And what assets are we to use to build a legitimate contender around a core whose best player is Zach Lavine surrounded by three role players? To me this is the “if Matas can become a superstar quickly while Lavine is still really good we should be fine” plan.

Sorry man, but hard pass on that strategy. I love Matas but he won’t be that kind of guy - assuming he ever becomes that kind of guy - for at least 4 years. I’d be with you if we had the prime assets to build that way but AK squandered them all.

[drosestruts]

I'm surprised that some of you want to keep Zach. Isn't it time to move on?

nah

always easy to tear down the talent and get rid of everything for "tanking". Much harder to get back to be a mediocre or even better team.
Getting 1st overall is not a guarantee of success in the future.

I'd like to keep the players that can help us to get better.

Matas, Ayo, Lavine, Smith. They look like the best pieces to keep around and add to them. Williams can be a good piece, but not sure about his health going forward and being able to play on a winning team as starter.

It’s not at all hard to “get back to” being a sub .500 irrelevant borderline playoff team in a league in which 20 of 30 teams play postseason games. It’s about as hard as falling off a log.

And what assets are we to use to build a legitimate contender around a core whose best player is Zach Lavine surrounded by three role players? To me this is the “if Matas can become a superstar quickly while Lavine is still really good we should be fine” plan.

Sorry man, but hard pass on that strategy. I love Matas but he won’t be that kind of guy - assuming he ever becomes that kind of guy - for at least 4 years. I’d be with you if we had the prime assets to build that way but AK squandered them all.

Detroit is on it's 6th year where they'll likely be under .500 and not even making the play-in so maybe it is a little hard.

I'm obviously not privy to the actual conversations between GMs but Zach seems to still have no market. So whether we want to keep him or have to keep him it somewhat seems like he'll be here.

But "what assets do we have to build a legit contender around Zach" is a good and fair question. Obviously some people will say "Tank" particularly in a year where our own pick is top-10 protected. Granted I'm not sure anyone in this draft will ever be better than Zach which puts us right back in the same scenario, but at least I suppose you did something?

The other options is acquiring young guys and hoping one breaks out with a bigger role - like the moves made for Giddey and Smith.

You could also look to acquire picks in trades for more chances at finding an impact player through the draft. Granted I think the only players who might fetch a 1st in a trade right now is Coby. So options are limited there as well. (but do exist).

I also always feel tanking is easier said than done. Again, there appears to be no trade market for Zach. Do we just sit him?

I'm all aboard trading Vuc, Craig, and Carter if we can. This would results in every rotation player (barring who we receive back in the trade(s)) being under 30. If that team still makes the play-in (or better), welp what else could you have done?

As of today there's not much separating us from the 5th seed.

Is there a seed we could earn that would make you feel the season was worth it?

[sco]

nah

always easy to tear down the talent and get rid of everything for "tanking". Much harder to get back to be a mediocre or even better team.
Getting 1st overall is not a guarantee of success in the future.

I'd like to keep the players that can help us to get better.

Matas, Ayo, Lavine, Smith. They look like the best pieces to keep around and add to them. Williams can be a good piece, but not sure about his health going forward and being able to play on a winning team as starter.

It’s not at all hard to “get back to” being a sub .500 irrelevant borderline playoff team in a league in which 20 of 30 teams play postseason games. It’s about as hard as falling off a log.

And what assets are we to use to build a legitimate contender around a core whose best player is Zach Lavine surrounded by three role players? To me this is the “if Matas can become a superstar quickly while Lavine is still really good we should be fine” plan.

Sorry man, but hard pass on that strategy. I love Matas but he won’t be that kind of guy - assuming he ever becomes that kind of guy - for at least 4 years. I’d be with you if we had the prime assets to build that way but AK squandered them all.

Detroit is on it's 6th year where they'll likely be under .500 and not even making the play-in so maybe it is a little hard.

I'm obviously not privy to the actual conversations between GMs but Zach seems to still have no market. So whether we want to keep him or have to keep him it somewhat seems like he'll be here.

But "what assets do we have to build a legit contender around Zach" is a good and fair question. Obviously some people will say "Tank" particularly in a year where our own pick is top-10 protected. Granted I'm not sure anyone in this draft will ever be better than Zach which puts us right back in the same scenario, but at least I suppose you did something?

The other options is acquiring young guys and hoping one breaks out with a bigger role - like the moves made for Giddey and Smith.

You could also look to acquire picks in trades for more chances at finding an impact player through the draft. Granted I think the only players who might fetch a 1st in a trade right now is Coby. So options are limited there as well. (but do exist).

I also always feel tanking is easier said than done. Again, there appears to be no trade market for Zach. Do we just sit him?

I'm all aboard trading Vuc, Craig, and Carter if we can. This would results in every rotation player (barring who we receive back in the trade(s)) being under 30. If that team still makes the play-in (or better), welp what else could you have done?

As of today there's not much separating us from the 5th seed.

Is there a seed we could earn that would make you feel the season was worth it?

Good question. IMO, it's akin to asking if it matters if the treadmill is on level 3 or 12, you may sweat more, but ultimately you haven't gone anywhere.

[kodo]

To me it would be "worth it" not based on what seed we end up with or # of Ws, but how we did it.
Did we do it because Coby, Ayo, Giddey and Matas look fantastic and carried us in most of our Ws? That's worth it, because these are all young-ish players (Ayo is 25 though) and we're likely to keep them.

Or did we get these Ws mainly because of Lavine & Vuc, who are outgoing? If it's that, then screw it. No better than those Ws by Justin Holiday & Sean Kilpatrick in the Luka draft.

So far, I think it's been firmly the latter.