2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion

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2025 DPOY

Amen Thompson
22
15%
Ivica Zubac
8
5%
Jalen Williams
0
No votes
Toumani Camara
13
9%
Lu Dort
10
7%
Jalen Suggs
1
1%
Evan Mobley
40
27%
Jaren Jackson Jr.
10
7%
Dyson Daniels
29
19%
Rudy Gobert
16
11%
 
Total votes: 149

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Re: 2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion 

Post#41 » by benhillboy » Thu Dec 12, 2024 9:45 am

PhilBlackson wrote:
kg01 wrote:
mediocrityrules wrote:Dyson Daniels needs some more love in this thread. He won't win, but the way he disrupts the opposition offense is amazing to watch.


Dyson put Brunson in a duffle bag in both matchups this year. Daniels defense should come with a parental advisory sticker.


Dyson's defence is the closest thing I've seen to a young Kawhi who obviously won this honor twice & likely would've done it more times had his knees held up.

If you plugged in what Dyson does defensively to nearly anyone else on this list, imo they'd be better than what they are now which is to say imo he's the best defender in the league right now, he's just not as popular as everyone else.

I drew the Kawhi comp a few weeks ago. He’s just sans 25 pounds, full grown alpha gorilla-sized hands, and a little more spatial defending awareness/ experience.

He's gotta be neck and neck with Wemby with a chance to really impress voters in an upcoming matchup. He’s pressuring the ball like “we” haven’t seen since Alvin Robertson in the 70s. Motor is just ridiculous, like Tony Allen without the crazy. Wemby isn’t diving into scouting reports or gliding above and under dozens of screens like this kid either.

Tari Eason should surely be in the poll (league best +4.1 defensive box) but his case is neutered somewhat by having two high end perimeter stoppers alongside him in Thompson and Brooks. Daniels is pretty much by himself although Hunter and Risacher are solid team defenders on the wing.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion 

Post#42 » by Rust_Cohle » Thu Dec 12, 2024 1:48 pm

benhillboy wrote:
PhilBlackson wrote:
kg01 wrote:
Dyson put Brunson in a duffle bag in both matchups this year. Daniels defense should come with a parental advisory sticker.


Dyson's defence is the closest thing I've seen to a young Kawhi who obviously won this honor twice & likely would've done it more times had his knees held up.

If you plugged in what Dyson does defensively to nearly anyone else on this list, imo they'd be better than what they are now which is to say imo he's the best defender in the league right now, he's just not as popular as everyone else.

I drew the Kawhi comp a few weeks ago. He’s just sans 25 pounds, full grown alpha gorilla-sized hands, and a little more spatial defending awareness/ experience.

He's gotta be neck and neck with Wemby with a chance to really impress voters in an upcoming matchup. He’s pressuring the ball like “we” haven’t seen since Alvin Robertson in the 70s. Motor is just ridiculous, like Tony Allen without the crazy. Wemby isn’t diving into scouting reports or gliding above and under dozens of screens like this kid either.

Tari Eason should surely be in the poll (league best +4.1 defensive box) but his case is neutered somewhat by having two high end perimeter stoppers alongside him in Thompson and Brooks. Daniels is pretty much by himself although Hunter and Risacher are solid team defenders on the wing.


Wemby is literally scaring people from shooting the ball even if they are 5 feet away. His whole Center of gravity by simply existing is unlike anything we have seen in ages. I agree Dyson has been amazing, but switch wemby and Dyson and there is no question the hawks would be better defensively while the spurs worse.

Elite defensive big men tend to fare better than elite defensive wing players. Which isn’t to say Dyson isn’t an absolute monster.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion 

Post#43 » by God Squad » Thu Dec 12, 2024 1:51 pm

Gobert is not DPOY, that much I know.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion 

Post#44 » by Harry Palmer » Thu Dec 12, 2024 2:26 pm

benhillboy wrote:
PhilBlackson wrote:
kg01 wrote:
Dyson put Brunson in a duffle bag in both matchups this year. Daniels defense should come with a parental advisory sticker.


Dyson's defence is the closest thing I've seen to a young Kawhi who obviously won this honor twice & likely would've done it more times had his knees held up.

If you plugged in what Dyson does defensively to nearly anyone else on this list, imo they'd be better than what they are now which is to say imo he's the best defender in the league right now, he's just not as popular as everyone else.

I drew the Kawhi comp a few weeks ago. He’s just sans 25 pounds, full grown alpha gorilla-sized hands, and a little more spatial defending awareness/ experience.

He's gotta be neck and neck with Wemby with a chance to really impress voters in an upcoming matchup. He’s pressuring the ball like “we” haven’t seen since Alvin Robertson in the 70s. Motor is just ridiculous, like Tony Allen without the crazy. Wemby isn’t diving into scouting reports or gliding above and under dozens of screens like this kid either.

Tari Eason should surely be in the poll (league best +4.1 defensive box) but his case is neutered somewhat by having two high end perimeter stoppers alongside him in Thompson and Brooks. Daniels is pretty much by himself although Hunter and Risacher are solid team defenders on the wing.


Ironically Eason gets a lot of Kawhi comps from former Leonard players and coaches, and the measurables…including long arms and immense hands…are all there or better. But as amazing of a defender as he is, Amen is better/more reliable.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion 

Post#45 » by benhillboy » Thu Dec 12, 2024 5:46 pm

Rust_Cohle wrote:
benhillboy wrote:
PhilBlackson wrote:
Dyson's defence is the closest thing I've seen to a young Kawhi who obviously won this honor twice & likely would've done it more times had his knees held up.

If you plugged in what Dyson does defensively to nearly anyone else on this list, imo they'd be better than what they are now which is to say imo he's the best defender in the league right now, he's just not as popular as everyone else.

I drew the Kawhi comp a few weeks ago. He’s just sans 25 pounds, full grown alpha gorilla-sized hands, and a little more spatial defending awareness/ experience.

He's gotta be neck and neck with Wemby with a chance to really impress voters in an upcoming matchup. He’s pressuring the ball like “we” haven’t seen since Alvin Robertson in the 70s. Motor is just ridiculous, like Tony Allen without the crazy. Wemby isn’t diving into scouting reports or gliding above and under dozens of screens like this kid either.

Tari Eason should surely be in the poll (league best +4.1 defensive box) but his case is neutered somewhat by having two high end perimeter stoppers alongside him in Thompson and Brooks. Daniels is pretty much by himself although Hunter and Risacher are solid team defenders on the wing.


Wemby is literally scaring people from shooting the ball even if they are 5 feet away. His whole Center of gravity by simply existing is unlike anything we have seen in ages. I agree Dyson has been amazing, but switch wemby and Dyson and there is no question the hawks would be better defensively while the spurs worse.

Elite defensive big men tend to fare better than elite defensive wing players. Which isn’t to say Dyson isn’t an absolute monster.

I get Wemby’s one-of-a-kind impact obviously. I just think guards and wings winning the award shines a better light on the defensive end for casual fans. If Dyson continues the absurd lead he has over the #2 players in steals and deflections I can’t see how you can deny him.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion 

Post#46 » by OkcSinceSGA » Thu Dec 12, 2024 6:10 pm

Bornstellar wrote:
OkcSinceSGA wrote:
Bornstellar wrote:Huh? I don't think that is the case at all. Pretty sure the team was solid defensively with him on the court and plummeted to close to worst in the league with him off. Not sure where to look these stats up though, just going based off memory

That also isn't the same as what I said...I did not say Thunder are better without Chet, that would be asinine. I'm saying they are still far and away the best defensive team in the NBA currently without him, so him being DPOY seems suspect given his team is full of elite defensive players


That's why I'm asking. I haven't checked it this year, but I thought I saw something on it. So just last year?

I'm saying neither year. They have never been better defensively with him on the bench


Found what I was confusing. It's the OFFENSE not defense that improved when he sat. Either way I imagine he's the heavy favorite to win DPOY.

https://www.poundingtherock.com/2024/3/30/24114035/spurs-offense-better-without-victor-wembanyama
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Re: 2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion 

Post#47 » by toooskies » Thu Dec 12, 2024 6:55 pm

https://bsky.app/profile/nbastat.bsky.social/post/3ld4fkl6xyk2c

Only 9 players have defended 200+ FGA inside of 10 feet this season.

Their rank according to Opp FG%:

49.8 - Evan Mobley
50.2 - Rudy Gobert
52.0 - Anthony Davis
53.3 - Alperen Sengun
55.0 - Myles Turner
56.6 - Brook Lopez
59.0 - Jakob Poeltl
62.7 - Vucevic
62.9 - Alex Sarr

(via LEAD)
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Re: 2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion 

Post#48 » by cupcakesnake » Thu Dec 12, 2024 9:25 pm

God Squad wrote:Gobert is not DPOY, that much I know.


He wouldn't have my vote either currently, but can you explain why of all the guys on this list.... he's the one you feel doesn't belong?

Gobert has been devastating opponent offenses all season. Our defense has problems (cough* Randle), but despite that, we have rebuilt a top 6 defense that keeps getting better, and our only adjustments have been asking Rudy to do more.

Rudy has put on several defensive masterclasses this season. He'll completely blow up the other teams plays over and over again in a way that's evident to everyone watching the game.

On top of that, all the defensive metrics once again have him as arguably the best defensive player in the league.

Have you been watching him play or is this one of those "i don't like Gobert personally" type of takes.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion 

Post#49 » by Kiss of Death » Fri Dec 13, 2024 12:50 am

Tari Eason should be in the poll.

I do not believe that Chet is even eligible to win postseason awards.
There’s a game minimum.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion 

Post#50 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Fri Dec 13, 2024 12:57 pm

Can Caruso make all defense as a 20 mpg guy?

His defensive EPM is 2nd in the league.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion 

Post#51 » by God Squad » Fri Dec 13, 2024 1:22 pm

cupcakesnake wrote:
God Squad wrote:Gobert is not DPOY, that much I know.


He wouldn't have my vote either currently, but can you explain why of all the guys on this list.... he's the one you feel doesn't belong?

Gobert has been devastating opponent offenses all season. Our defense has problems (cough* Randle), but despite that, we have rebuilt a top 6 defense that keeps getting better, and our only adjustments have been asking Rudy to do more.

Rudy has put on several defensive masterclasses this season. He'll completely blow up the other teams plays over and over again in a way that's evident to everyone watching the game.

On top of that, all the defensive metrics once again have him as arguably the best defensive player in the league.

Have you been watching him play or is this one of those "i don't like Gobert personally" type of takes.

Both. I've watched both Raptor games. Yes, Randle sucks, but Rudy clogs the paint without adding passing or spacing the floor. He has some of the worst hands (catching the ball) I've seen since Kwame. If I had to pick an early DPOY pick it'd be Dyson Daniels. His impact is felt during games against guards/best perimeter players.

I don't care for Gobert for multiple reasons, but IMO this isn't the year for him to be in the running for DPOY.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion 

Post#52 » by God Squad » Fri Dec 13, 2024 1:24 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Can Caruso make all defense as a 20 mpg guy?

His defensive EPM is 2nd in the league.

Carusuo has been doo doo all season, this man can't get a rhythm going offensively.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion 

Post#53 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Fri Dec 13, 2024 2:36 pm

God Squad wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Can Caruso make all defense as a 20 mpg guy?

His defensive EPM is 2nd in the league.

Carusuo has been doo doo all season, this man can't get a rhythm going offensively.


He’s been the best defensive non-big
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Re: 2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion 

Post#54 » by God Squad » Fri Dec 13, 2024 2:39 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
God Squad wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Can Caruso make all defense as a 20 mpg guy?

His defensive EPM is 2nd in the league.

Carusuo has been doo doo all season, this man can't get a rhythm going offensively.


He’s been the best defensive non-big

4.2 DBPM is great. But offensively he's been soo bad for OKC.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion 

Post#55 » by cupcakesnake » Fri Dec 13, 2024 5:28 pm

God Squad wrote:
cupcakesnake wrote:
God Squad wrote:Gobert is not DPOY, that much I know.


He wouldn't have my vote either currently, but can you explain why of all the guys on this list.... he's the one you feel doesn't belong?

Gobert has been devastating opponent offenses all season. Our defense has problems (cough* Randle), but despite that, we have rebuilt a top 6 defense that keeps getting better, and our only adjustments have been asking Rudy to do more.

Rudy has put on several defensive masterclasses this season. He'll completely blow up the other teams plays over and over again in a way that's evident to everyone watching the game.

On top of that, all the defensive metrics once again have him as arguably the best defensive player in the league.

Have you been watching him play or is this one of those "i don't like Gobert personally" type of takes.

Both. I've watched both Raptor games. Yes, Randle sucks, but Rudy clogs the paint without adding passing or spacing the floor. He has some of the worst hands (catching the ball) I've seen since Kwame. If I had to pick an early DPOY pick it'd be Dyson Daniels. His impact is felt during games against guards/best perimeter players.

I don't care for Gobert for multiple reasons, but IMO this isn't the year for him to be in the running for DPOY.


So your reasons for him not being in the running for Defensive player of the year is... you don't like his offense?

Both Raptors games.
So, game 1 was a pretty standard Rudy Gobert defensive domination. Completely shut down the paint in the first quarter, preventing attempts, blowing up pick & rolls, and just allowing the Raptors to do nothing on offense. Raps climb back into the game by abusing out Randle/Naz minutes (huge trend early in the season), but then we bring out Rudy to start the second half and quickly go back to a 20-point lead. Game is mostly over, but Raps use a Scottie + bench to beat up our bench lineup just enough we have to bring the starters back in to finish the game.

Game 2, I'll give you... kind of the low point of our season (so far, haha). We tried to change our defensive scheme in practice before that game, asking Rudy to play higher on screens to give us more ball pressure, and seeing if we could get Randle to become more engaged on the backline. Randle... missed literally dozens of rotations that game, resulting in that little fight between him and Rudy and Ant at the end and Gobert acted like a grumpy baby, as he is prone to do sometimes.

Gobert is in the running every year until his wheels fall off. You don't have to like it. It's just a fact of life that he's going to be discussed as one of the biggest defensive problem makers in basketball because that's what it is.

I'm not campaigning for him, or really rooting for him to win it, but comments like yours I think require a reality check or just a reminder. Rudy is going to be on DPOY ballots because he's still just that good. Every single game, he's visibly making life miserable of opponent offenses like almost no one else in the league. I think the time of Wemby has come though. It's just hard to deny someone that tall, and that mobile. Dyson is super high on my ballot. I also think OG Anunoby could make some noise if the Knicks defense continues to improve.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion 

Post#56 » by cupcakesnake » Fri Dec 13, 2024 6:07 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Can Caruso make all defense as a 20 mpg guy?

His defensive EPM is 2nd in the league.


He made it in 2023 averaging 23.5mpg.
It will be interesting in OKC though. Everyone knows Caruso is a defensive boss, but in OKC he feels like a smaller cog in a terrifying defensive machine where tons of guys are playing impressively. Cason, Dort, J.Dub and the bigs all feel more important where Caruso feels like a hilarious bonus. I'm saying this to contrast his all-defense years, where he was seen as a massive anchor as the only elite defender on a bad defensive roster.

Since LA, the numbers have been saying Caruso is simply the best perimeter defender in the NBA. It's very hard to watch him and think those numbers have anything wrong. He just happened to end up on a team that barely needs his defense night to night.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion 

Post#57 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Fri Dec 13, 2024 6:24 pm

cupcakesnake wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Can Caruso make all defense as a 20 mpg guy?

His defensive EPM is 2nd in the league.


He made it in 2023 averaging 23.5mpg.
It will be interesting in OKC though. Everyone knows Caruso is a defensive boss, but in OKC he feels like a smaller cog in a terrifying defensive machine where tons of guys are playing impressively. Cason, Dort, J.Dub and the bigs all feel more important where Caruso feels like a hilarious bonus. I'm saying this to contrast his all-defense years, where he was seen as a massive anchor as the only elite defender on a bad defensive roster.

Since LA, the numbers have been saying Caruso is simply the best perimeter defender in the NBA. It's very hard to watch him and think those numbers have anything wrong. He just happened to end up on a team that barely needs his defense night to night.


Yeah I agree with all of this. I didn't realize about 23. But I also think "Caruso was the addition, the team made a major defensive leap" could lead to some attribution to him for the jump.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion 

Post#58 » by cupcakesnake » Fri Dec 13, 2024 6:50 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
cupcakesnake wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Can Caruso make all defense as a 20 mpg guy?

His defensive EPM is 2nd in the league.


He made it in 2023 averaging 23.5mpg.
It will be interesting in OKC though. Everyone knows Caruso is a defensive boss, but in OKC he feels like a smaller cog in a terrifying defensive machine where tons of guys are playing impressively. Cason, Dort, J.Dub and the bigs all feel more important where Caruso feels like a hilarious bonus. I'm saying this to contrast his all-defense years, where he was seen as a massive anchor as the only elite defender on a bad defensive roster.

Since LA, the numbers have been saying Caruso is simply the best perimeter defender in the NBA. It's very hard to watch him and think those numbers have anything wrong. He just happened to end up on a team that barely needs his defense night to night.


Yeah I agree with all of this. I didn't realize about 23. But I also think "Caruso was the addition, the team made a major defensive leap" could lead to some attribution to him for the jump.


It's annoying and probably not good analysis, but so much of NBA discourse is about giving people a percentage of the credit or blame. Will anyone credit Caruso for the defensive leap? It's totally a narrative that could take hold, and the Thunder are around 6 points more stingy defensively, per 100 possessions.

The cool thing about Caruso, is that he can be a mini defensive anchor in any lineup. You can play more offensively oriented, weaker defenders and survive with Caruso over there. (Not that OKC has any players like that, haha). You can also play non-big lineups because Caruso gives you so much ball disruption and even does little bits of post defense and rim protection. He's such a freak. Sometimes I wonder if we're going to look back on Caruso and wonder if he was simply the best defensive player under 6'6" ever.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion 

Post#59 » by shrink » Fri Dec 13, 2024 10:57 pm

God Squad wrote:
cupcakesnake wrote:
God Squad wrote:Gobert is not DPOY, that much I know.


He wouldn't have my vote either currently, but can you explain why of all the guys on this list.... he's the one you feel doesn't belong?

Gobert has been devastating opponent offenses all season. Our defense has problems (cough* Randle), but despite that, we have rebuilt a top 6 defense that keeps getting better, and our only adjustments have been asking Rudy to do more.

Rudy has put on several defensive masterclasses this season. He'll completely blow up the other teams plays over and over again in a way that's evident to everyone watching the game.

On top of that, all the defensive metrics once again have him as arguably the best defensive player in the league.

Have you been watching him play or is this one of those "i don't like Gobert personally" type of takes.

Both. I've watched both Raptor games. Yes, Randle sucks, but Rudy clogs the paint without adding passing or spacing the floor. He has some of the worst hands (catching the ball) I've seen since Kwame. If I had to pick an early DPOY pick it'd be Dyson Daniels. His impact is felt during games against guards/best perimeter players.

I don't care for Gobert for multiple reasons, but IMO this isn't the year for him to be in the running for DPOY.

You know what the word “defensive” means, right?
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Re: 2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion 

Post#60 » by bbms » Sat Dec 14, 2024 2:16 pm

is there a world where jalen williams can get traction in this race and end with dpoy votes along with all-d 1st?

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