Thunder is scary good

[OkcSinceSGA]

I want to go there.

Why do you think Shai is not more skilled than Giannis and Jokic at putting the ball in the bucket? I am strictly talking about offense.

Mostly because I have eyes, and the stats agree.

I think you're underrating being able to score in a variety of ways. We've seen Giannis neutralized by guys like old man Horford in the playoffs for single games or couple game stretches...because his only offensive move is basically to run at the rim and jump into guys. Nobody has done that to SGA (much smaller sample size yea, but in general I don't see what you'd do to counter him when nobody in the NBA can even stay in front of him consistently). Yes, you can Shaq your way to buckets when you're physically dominant but there is SOME value in having multiple ways to beat the defense.

Guys as great as Giannis will still find ways to generate production, but it can be slowed down a bit easier than someone who can beat you in several different ways offensively. SGA has detonated outside shooting wise, purely in the paint, at the ft line. He's just a harder problem for the defense to figure out than someone like Giannis and that's evidenced by the fact that dozens of players have come out saying there isn't really a counter for SGA's offense. That he is the most difficult to guard, deepest bag etc.

Jokic I'll say is valid in terms of being a more gifted scorer because of his edge in outside shooting now. Plus I think if he wanted to be selfish he could easily put up 35 ppg right now.

[Lo Wang]

I want to go there.

Why do you think Shai is not more skilled than Giannis and Jokic at putting the ball in the bucket? I am strictly talking about offense.

Mostly because I have eyes, and the stats agree.

Let's break this down bro.

Let's start with Giannis. How many moves does he have to score?

SGA has virtually every arsenal and currently working on being a 3 point sniper.

Giannis is getting massive praise for shooting at the high 40s midders.

[pipfan]

I was just wondering what Thunder fans thought of the Caruso addition. We miss him in Chicago
I guess OKC is enjoying his play

[tsherkin]

I think you're underrating being able to score in a variety of ways.

There is certainly value to versatility, there's just a threshold to how much it matters.

But again, Giannis is working on his third-straight season of 30+, has averaged 29.2 ppg over the past 496 games (back to the 2018 season), shooting 56.6% from the floor. In that same stretch, he's still averaged 28.2 ppg in the playoffs, shooting 53.5% from the floor. He's a remarkable scorer.

Shai has lots of ways to get to a jumper. He is working on his third relevant season of high-volume scoring (also 3 straight at 30+ atm). He literally isn't as good at getting to the rim or finishing his shots. He lacks Giannis' physical dominance, and makes up the gap to the extent he does with skill, yes. He's also yet to reach 2 dozen playoff games, and has only been a volume scorer for 10 of those, so yes, there are some sample issues. I doubt he'll have huge issues going forward, of course, because he is unquestionably one of the best in the game.

But physical dominance goes a looooooong way, and the proof is in the pudding, so to speak, on that one. Even in the playoffs.

[Frank Dux]

Number seed last season and added two incredible defensive vets, along with another year of growth from this very young team. Presti has built an absolute juggernaut.

Just wait until Presti cashes in on some of his picks. He has the assets to add a megastar.

[Blame Rasho]

Just a sample for this poster…

Yikes...I'd not mention the law school. No need to drop their ranking!

Why do you ask?

Seeking professional legal advice?

I love your obtuse posts… I see many more in your future.

I don't even know what obtuse means. I failed at math. All I know is the Thunder winning by 5 is considered an "underachievement" at this point.

Keep on thinking this team is the same as last year's.

He is a lawyer but doesn’t know what obtuse means and failed math.

[OkcSinceSGA]

I think you're underrating being able to score in a variety of ways.

There is certainly value to versatility, there's just a threshold to how much it matters.

But again, Giannis is working on his third-straight season of 30+, has averaged 29.2 ppg over the past 496 games (back to the 2018 season), shooting 56.6% from the floor. In that same stretch, he's still averaged 28.2 ppg in the playoffs, shooting 53.5% from the floor. He's a remarkable scorer.

Shai has lots of ways to get to a jumper. He is working on his third relevant season of high-volume scoring (also 3 straight at 30+ atm). He literally isn't as good at getting to the rim or finishing his shots. He lacks Giannis' physical dominance, and makes up the gap to the extent he does with skill, yes. He's also yet to reach 2 dozen playoff games, and has only been a volume scorer for 10 of those, so yes, there are some sample issues. I doubt he'll have huge issues going forward, of course, because he is unquestionably one of the best in the game.

But physical dominance goes a looooooong way, and the proof is in the pudding, so to speak, on that one. Even in the playoffs.

I agree it's not a big threshold, especially when comparing two elite 30+ ppg scorers to begin with. But I do think when we look back on their entire prime in a few years, you'll agree that SGA was the harder problem to solve for defenses. Mainly because if you wall off Giannis from the paint (yes I realize not many can do it) he literally cannot hit open jumpers. He sucks at the FT stripe. SGA can beat you from inside or out.

With these two specifically if you have a playoff game on the line and have to get a game winning shot or bucket to close a game who do you personally trust more?

ps... it's not just getting a jumper. SGA crushes Giannis in drives the last 3 years I'm pretty sure.

[Lo Wang]

I think you're underrating being able to score in a variety of ways.

There is certainly value to versatility, there's just a threshold to how much it matters.

But again, Giannis is working on his third-straight season of 30+, has averaged 29.2 ppg over the past 496 games (back to the 2018 season), shooting 56.6% from the floor. In that same stretch, he's still averaged 28.2 ppg in the playoffs, shooting 53.5% from the floor. He's a remarkable scorer.

Shai has lots of ways to get to a jumper. He is working on his third relevant season of high-volume scoring (also 3 straight at 30+ atm). He literally isn't as good at getting to the rim or finishing his shots. He lacks Giannis' physical dominance, and makes up the gap to the extent he does with skill, yes. He's also yet to reach 2 dozen playoff games, and has only been a volume scorer for 10 of those, so yes, there are some sample issues. I doubt he'll have huge issues going forward, of course, because he is unquestionably one of the best in the game.

But physical dominance goes a looooooong way, and the proof is in the pudding, so to speak, on that one. Even in the playoffs.

I don't want to use stats in this argument.

I want to use the eye test.

SGA is more skilled than Giannis and Jokic at scoring is my premise.

You said your eye test is saying they are more skilled.

Explain please.

[Bornstellar]

What's even scarier is that Chet is not even playing, they still have a ton of picks to use to add to their roster, and their guys are super young and only going to get better.

[Blame Rasho]

Just a sample of this poster…

Hey if I'm having a perfectly civil conversation without throwing out insults, it's fair game.

Just because you don't agree with me and can't argue my points does not make me a troll. Every argument I make I lay out my points, and I even go as far as admitting I could be wrong.

Calling someone a troll is an insult. I don't like to report anybody; I am of the belief everyone is entitled to an opinion, and if I don't like that opinion I will either ignore it or counter argue it.

Calling someone a troll is just another cop out and a way of stifling free speech.

I wish the mods will treat it for what it is: an insult.

P.S I'm a professional lawyer, so of course I will have a counter argument to everything. Am I right? No. I am probably wrong most of the time, but that's what makes this forum so fun. We're free to express our opinions and argue with like minded individuals over a subject we all love. Don't hate, participate.

Yikes...I'd not mention the law school. No need to drop their ranking!

Why do you ask?

Seeking professional legal advice?

No.

I stated a fact. Chet destroyed Wembanyama in the last match up.

Sorry I only deal with facts, not hypotheticals.

I love your obtuse posts… I see many more in your future.

I don't even know what obtuse means. I failed at math. All I know is the Thunder winning by 5 is considered an "underachievement" at this point.

Keep on thinking this team is the same as last year's.

He is a lawyer but doesn’t know what obtuse means and failed math.

[Lo Wang]

Just a sample of this poster…

Yikes...I'd not mention the law school. No need to drop their ranking!

Why do you ask?

Seeking professional legal advice?

I love your obtuse posts… I see many more in your future.

I don't even know what obtuse means. I failed at math. All I know is the Thunder winning by 5 is considered an "underachievement" at this point.

Keep on thinking this team is the same as last year's.

He is a lawyer but doesn’t know what obtuse means and failed math.

That was sarcasm.

And yes. I don’t know what obtuse means.

[Pattycakes]

Thunder are***

… now continue with whatever your argument is op

[Gusto1903]

@DaGawd

lol

[tsherkin]

I agree it's not a big threshold, especially when comparing two elite 30+ ppg scorers to begin with. But I do think when we look back on their entire prime in a few years, you'll agree that SGA was the harder problem to solve for defenses.

I immediately disagree, because if it was so simple to deal with him, everyone would be stopping Giannis, and that is very much not what has been happening.

ps... it's not just getting a jumper. SGA crushes Giannis in drives the last 3 years I'm pretty sure.

NBA.com thinks so. Not sure how accurate that is given that it is the staple of Giannis' game, but I guess if you mix some of them into post-ups, then it makes some sense. I don't know that it's meaningful to their scoring, though, because Giannis gets to the rim like an animal.

I don't want to use stats in this argument.

That's nice.

I want to use the eye test.

SGA is more skilled than Giannis and Jokic at scoring is my premise.

You said your eye test is saying they are more skilled.

Explain please.

Jokic I'm not even going to start with. You'd have to be a lunatic to argue skill between those two, it's clearly Joker. With Giannis, my contention was that he was the better scorer, not that he had a broader array of skills. That's a strawman.

[slick_watts]

they still have more steals than turnovers, which is probably the most insane thing about them.

[MiltownMadness]

I want to go there.

Why do you think Shai is not more skilled than Giannis and Jokic at putting the ball in the bucket? I am strictly talking about offense.

Mostly because I have eyes, and the stats agree.

[MaliBrah]

SGA outplayed Luka yesterday, but with the defensive schemes on both ends expecting similar outputs isn't grounded in reality, one was blitzed and doubled and one was played single coverage even with drops.
Mavs halfcourt game was good, they were more effecient despite SGA going supernova, they failed on turn overs and rebounding, which killed them SGA could have done the same and Mavs limit turnovers and win the rebounding battle and it would be different result, like what happened in May.

I agree with you but I genuinely think the thunder have improved ten fold since that series. Giddey and the corpse of Hayward not playing anymore are insane additions by subtractions. The thunder played with a handcuff last year in Giddey to maintain his trade value. They have the backup c minutes now in iHart that got PULVERIZED last year when Jaylin Williams played and Chet sat. On top of the addition by subtraction in Giddey out they've replaced him with Caruso an all world defender who's impact has been obvious even while shooting poorly and if that picks up wow.

Growth to Jdub+Cason+Chet(lets see with injury?)

Mavs are great too. Hopefully we get another rematch

[OkcSinceSGA]

I agree it's not a big threshold, especially when comparing two elite 30+ ppg scorers to begin with. But I do think when we look back on their entire prime in a few years, you'll agree that SGA was the harder problem to solve for defenses.

I immediately disagree, because if it was so simple to deal with him, everyone would be stopping Giannis, and that is very much not what has been happening.

ps... it's not just getting a jumper. SGA crushes Giannis in drives the last 3 years I'm pretty sure.

NBA.com thinks so. Not sure how accurate that is given that it is the staple of Giannis' game, but I guess if you mix some of them into post-ups, then it makes some sense. I don't know that it's meaningful to their scoring, though, because Giannis gets to the rim like an animal.

I don't want to use stats in this argument.

That's nice.

I want to use the eye test.

SGA is more skilled than Giannis and Jokic at scoring is my premise.

You said your eye test is saying they are more skilled.

Explain please.

Jokic I'm not even going to start with. You'd have to be a lunatic to argue skill between those two, it's clearly Joker. With Giannis, my contention was that he was the better scorer, not that he had a broader array of skills. That's a strawman.

Not saying you're disagreeing on drives but just sharing some data for others.


https://www.nba.com/stats/players/drives?dir=D&sort=DRIVES

Leading the NBA in drives at 21+ this year.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/drives?Season=2023-24&dir=D&sort=DRIVES

Last year easily led Ja Morant at 23+

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/drives?Season=2022-23&dir=D&sort=DRIVES

Year before 23.9 matching his NBA record.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/drives?Season=2022-23&dir=D&sort=DRIVES

Year before that 23.9 setting the NBA record in recorded history.


In that same span Giannis averages just 14 drives per game, which lands him 15-25th or so most years. He puts nowhere near the same pressure on the defense getting to the rim as SGA. Now as a post player? Yes Giannis has him beat in volume by a mile, usually being top 5-10. Efficiency wise SGA is actually a better post player in PPP, but obvious with 25% of the attempts you have to logically give the edge to Giannis here.

I think when it's all over SGA is going to be mentioned with Jordan, Kobe, Wade as the best SGA ever. It's almost tragic that he's in an era where there are several top 10 all timers playing. If he wasn't playing with Jokic/Giannis he would be getting compared to Michael Jordan right now. It's just that the league has never been more stacked.

[Magic_Johnny12]

What’s even scarier they’re not even at full strength.

What’s even scarier than that is that they’re literally the youngest team in the league.

What’s even scarier than that is they have one of the best front offices AND coaches in the league.

What’s even scarier than that you ask? THEY HAVE ENOUGH ASSETS TO ACQUIRE A TOP 5 PLAYER IF THEY SO CHOOSE

You got to give credit where credit is due, their entire franchise from top to bottom is masterclass.

[OkcSinceSGA]

What’s even scarier they’re not even at full strength.

What’s even scarier than that is that they’re literally the youngest team in the league.

What’s even scarier than that is they have one of the best front offices AND coaches in the league.

What’s even scarier than that you ask? THEY HAVE ENOUGH ASSETS TO ACQUIRE A TOP 5 PLAYER IF THEY SO CHOOSE

You got to give credit where credit is due, their entire franchise from top to bottom is masterclass.

All the assets to get a star, yet it's hard to think of stars that wouldn't disrupt their team and growth of young players. Only guy I keep coming back to is Bam Adebayo. He doesn't need a ton of touches, can dominate games in several ways, is still young enough to get a 5-6 year title window out of. When Chet returns and you slide Jalen to 3 ideally. I'm thinking the best course of action may be to keep drafting over and over taking big risks for a star like Giannis in the middle of 1st round.