The Tim Connelly Thread (prev./still Fire Him)

[younggunsmn]

Can I ask Note to edit the title in the opening post to just be the Tim Connelly thread?

Or lock this one and start a new one.

People take everything so literally.
I actually love the thread title as it's become a meme around here over the years.
Fire (insert executive/coach) threads have always served as forums to discuss their performance.
Put it in green Font for Irony?

Few coaches and executives retire and ride off into the sunset. Most end up getting fired eventually.

[urinesane]

Wolves are one of the losingest franchises in sports. Fans can act however they want

People can act however they want, I've never said otherwise, but it's a waste of their time. If fans can complain about KAT whining to refs, I can complain about our fans whining about EVERYTHING. One of the "losingest" franchises in sports starts to win (two above .500 seasons in a row with playoff appearances) and all of a sudden the goalposts shift all the way to championship contention or gfy? It's hilarious (and sad).

I wonder why people even bother calling themselves fans when they seem to constantly look for things to be unhappy about... I think most turn to sports for a distraction from their own lives and get mad when it doesn't distract them enough.

One is being upset with the product that the timberwolves out and the other is being upset on where fans want to spend their time and money. Completely different things. It's on the wolves to put up a good product, not on fans to shut up and eat their vegetables so to speak

I'm not upset about the fans, they can do whatever they want. It's more on the side of "if you're so miserable, you should do something else" rather than expecting something out of your control to change. The problem is that I think they have learned to enjoy that misery, or at least have grown to normalize it. Which is why when things start to turn towards the positive, they find all sorts of ways to use cognitive dissonance to remain in the same place they were.

Even if things are WAAAAAAAAAAY better by all accounts than the last 19 years or so, they are still stuck with the Minnesota Sports Fan Loser Mentality of "they'll blow it... somehow they will, they always do. Until they prove otherwise, I will always assume the worst.". Which is certainly an option, but what a silly way to spend your time.

Fans should talk with their money, that's the only way they would actually get change, the rest just feels like people being crusty about things they can't control (which is 100% a waste of time).

They want players to shut up and play? They should shut up and watch... or go do something else. Nobody likes their turd in the punch bowl attitudes (except their fellow crusty butts).

[urinesane]

Can I ask Note to edit the title in the opening post to just be the Tim Connelly thread?

Or lock this one and start a new one.

People take everything so literally.
I actually love the thread title as it's become a meme around here over the years.
Fire (insert executive/coach) threads have always served as forums to discuss their performance.
Put it in green Font for Irony?

Few coaches and executives retire and ride off into the sunset. Most end up getting fired eventually.

It's pretty weird to start someone's time here with it though (and just shows the inherent instability coursing throughout the franchise/fanbase). Would it be fun if we drafted Anthony Edwards and the only thread for discussion was the "Trade Anthony Edwards" thread? Oh, how meta and clever!

It almost feels like a lot of fans around here (and in MN) are almost afraid of winning after all these years. They've grown accustomed to losing every year and it's a fact that people don't like change (even when it's good for them), so maybe it's just an expression of that?

I can't wait until the Wolves are good and we get a ton of bandwagon fans that haven't had their souls crushed yet and can enjoy the ride. This one feels like working at a suicide hotline most of the time.

[guest81]

People can act however they want, I've never said otherwise, but it's a waste of their time. If fans can complain about KAT whining to refs, I can complain about our fans whining about EVERYTHING. One of the "losingest" franchises in sports starts to win (two above .500 seasons in a row with playoff appearances) and all of a sudden the goalposts shift all the way to championship contention or gfy? It's hilarious (and sad).

I wonder why people even bother calling themselves fans when they seem to constantly look for things to be unhappy about... I think most turn to sports for a distraction from their own lives and get mad when it doesn't distract them enough.

One is being upset with the product that the timberwolves out and the other is being upset on where fans want to spend their time and money. Completely different things. It's on the wolves to put up a good product, not on fans to shut up and eat their vegetables so to speak

I'm not upset about the fans, they can do whatever they want. It's more on the side of "if you're so miserable, you should do something else" rather than expecting something out of your control to change. The problem is that I think they have learned to enjoy that misery, or at least have grown to normalize it. Which is why when things start to turn towards the positive, they find all sorts of ways to use cognitive dissonance to remain in the same place they were.

Even if things are WAAAAAAAAAAY better by all accounts than the last 19 years or so, they are still stuck with the Minnesota Sports Fan Loser Mentality of "they'll blow it... somehow they will, they always do. Until they prove otherwise, I will always assume the worst.". Which is certainly an option, but what a silly way to spend your time.

Fans should talk with their money, that's the only way they would actually get change, the rest just feels like people being crusty about things they can't control (which is 100% a waste of time).

They want players to shut up and play? They should shut up and watch... or go do something else. Nobody likes their turd in the punch bowl attitudes (except their fellow crusty butts).

I mean if you want to go with a Minnesota fan in general it's even worse. They haven't been to a championship game since 1991. They've constantly been let down by the Vikings, the wolves have had one run in their entire franchise history, twins haven't even won a playoff game since 2002. Minnesota is the most tortured fan base in the world. You don't get to pick where your born or even what team you root for. Minnesota fans deserve wayyyy better, and any frustration is completely justified

[urinesane]

One is being upset with the product that the timberwolves out and the other is being upset on where fans want to spend their time and money. Completely different things. It's on the wolves to put up a good product, not on fans to shut up and eat their vegetables so to speak

I'm not upset about the fans, they can do whatever they want. It's more on the side of "if you're so miserable, you should do something else" rather than expecting something out of your control to change. The problem is that I think they have learned to enjoy that misery, or at least have grown to normalize it. Which is why when things start to turn towards the positive, they find all sorts of ways to use cognitive dissonance to remain in the same place they were.

Even if things are WAAAAAAAAAAY better by all accounts than the last 19 years or so, they are still stuck with the Minnesota Sports Fan Loser Mentality of "they'll blow it... somehow they will, they always do. Until they prove otherwise, I will always assume the worst.". Which is certainly an option, but what a silly way to spend your time.

Fans should talk with their money, that's the only way they would actually get change, the rest just feels like people being crusty about things they can't control (which is 100% a waste of time).

They want players to shut up and play? They should shut up and watch... or go do something else. Nobody likes their turd in the punch bowl attitudes (except their fellow crusty butts).

I mean if you want to go with a Minnesota fan in general it's even worse. They haven't been to a championship game since 1991. They've constantly been let down by the Vikings, the wolves have had one run in their entire franchise history, twins haven't even won a playoff game since 2002. Minnesota is the most tortured fan base in the world. You don't get to pick where your born or even what team you root for. Minnesota fans deserve wayyyy better, and any frustration is completely justified

The green text is true, the red text is false. Sure, if you are born somewhere it's easiest to become a fan of the local teams (since you can see them play live and the community/your family has history). It's still a choice though. I gave up on the Vikings and it was a great decision, it's my fault if they disappoint me every year and I choose to come back expecting otherwise.

Now I mostly don't watch NFL due to the info about concussions, but it was a healthy decision to stop following the Vikings roughly 12 years ago. I prefer basketball, I love an underdog, and the Wolves have never really been good enough to disappoint me TOO much... but once they start being good it's ON ME to temper my expectations and try to just enjoy the difference between winning and being a terrible lottery team. The trick is to not keep raising my expectations each year due to the progress(and therefor lowering my odds of enjoying my time spent following them). I will always remember the worst times and it will help me enjoy the better times. If I forget that and start expecting championships, then the time I spent following a terrible team was truly worthless.

If someone follows a team despite not enjoying, it's 100% their fault. The only thing in their control is themselves (and often times that's a big ask), everything else is out of their hands. If they want the team to be accountable for their actions, they need to start with being accountable for their own.

[Note30]

Fire this dickwad.

[minimus]

Five FRPs, KD trade etc. Reality hits hard...

[minimus]

You dont see 2nd apron until it hits you

[shrink]

At the 20218 NBA draft, the Denver Nuggets attempted to trade up to the No. 2 overall pick with Luka Doncic their target selection. The Sacramento Kings held the No. 2 pick that year and picked Marvin Bagley while the Atlanta Hawks did trade down from No. 3, sending the draft rights for Doncic to the Dallas Mavericks for the No. 5 pick that became Trae Young and a first round pick in 2019 that became Cam Reddish.

"The Nuggets knew that Vlade Divac was not particularly high on Luka Doncic," said Mike Singer on The Hoop Collective Podcast. "And they had designs on pairing Nikola Jokic with Luka Doncic. On draft night in 2018, they tried. There was a call placed. There was a proposal and the Nuggets attempted to get the No. 2 pick for Gary Harris and two first round picks was what I was told.

"You can roll your eyes at that price tag, but look in retrospect. The Kings ended up taking Marvin Bagley with the No. 2 pick. I'm not saying this trade was imminent. All I'm saying is this trade was discussed and considered because the Nuggets knew Vlade Divas was not particularly high on Luka Doncic and they tried to exploit it.

Tim Connelly tried to unite Jokic and Luka in Denver?

I’m officially calling him a draft guru (though he’d hate it), and upgrading my valuation of any guy he goes after in the draft.

[Klomp]

At the 20218 NBA draft, the Denver Nuggets attempted to trade up to the No. 2 overall pick with Luka Doncic their target selection. The Sacramento Kings held the No. 2 pick that year and picked Marvin Bagley while the Atlanta Hawks did trade down from No. 3, sending the draft rights for Doncic to the Dallas Mavericks for the No. 5 pick that became Trae Young and a first round pick in 2019 that became Cam Reddish.

"The Nuggets knew that Vlade Divac was not particularly high on Luka Doncic," said Mike Singer on The Hoop Collective Podcast. "And they had designs on pairing Nikola Jokic with Luka Doncic. On draft night in 2018, they tried. There was a call placed. There was a proposal and the Nuggets attempted to get the No. 2 pick for Gary Harris and two first round picks was what I was told.

"You can roll your eyes at that price tag, but look in retrospect. The Kings ended up taking Marvin Bagley with the No. 2 pick. I'm not saying this trade was imminent. All I'm saying is this trade was discussed and considered because the Nuggets knew Vlade Divas was not particularly high on Luka Doncic and they tried to exploit it.

Tim Connelly tried to unite Jokic and Luka in Denver?

I’m officially calling him a draft guru (though he’d hate it), and upgrading my valuation of any guy he goes after in the draft.

He is a big game hunter. Sure, some shots may just miss the mark. Some may even miss completely. But he's still out there going for the kill rather than sitting back at the hunting cabin (or the fishing cabin, as it were in Timberwolves' lore).

The Gobert trade is another example of this. He knew Utah was about to blow things up. The Donovan Mitchell rumors were swirling. Not as much talk about Gobert on the rumor mill, but it didn't make sense for them to hold on to him given the high floor he gives every team he plays on.

He knew the Spurs weren't necessarily huge on this draft class. He knew the Knicks wanted and desperately needed Towns. He knew the Lakers wanted Russell. I could go on and on.

[minimus]

Interesting that after 15 games every MIN player who is FA next summer has shown real limits in his game:

- Randle does not box out, terrible low man defender, terrible pick-n-roll / switch defender
- NAW cant create his own shot, cant control the game and cant take care of the ball under pressure. I had high hopes for him in terms of mid range shooting (1-2 pullup shot, bank shot), but he has not shown any progress in this area
- Reid does not box out, bad low man defender, commit unnecessary fouls. Has not improved as passer or decision maker

This dynamic is something where TC should be gambling next summer.

[shrink]

[winforlose]

Wait for the KAT trade to continue to fallout. People are giving Randle time to gel, if he cannot that grade will sink.

[Klomp]

Wait for the KAT trade to continue to fallout. People are giving Randle time to gel, if he cannot that grade will sink.

Yeah because the same people were totally rational and patient in the first weeks after the Gobert trade.

[winforlose]

Wait for the KAT trade to continue to fallout. People are giving Randle time to gel, if he cannot that grade will sink.

Yeah because the same people were totally rational and patient in the first weeks after the Gobert trade.

Normally I don’t compare Apples to Potatoes, but what the hell, let’s do it. The Gobert trade was scrutinized because it combined to All NBA centers and involved one of the largest hauls ever for a defensive player without offensive achievements. The Wolves got the best player in the deal but gave a king’s ransom. The KAT trade we gave up the best player, we got back a fraction of his value, and we didn’t even manage to get out of the 2nd apron while doing it.

Given the above you might be wondering, why are people giving it time to see how the chips fall. The answer is they got burned before betting against the Wolves. In a world where TC is believed to have earned some latitude this is what that latitude looks like. The problem is it ends at the bottom of a ravine.

[TimberKat]

Wait for the KAT trade to continue to fallout. People are giving Randle time to gel, if he cannot that grade will sink.

Yeah because the same people were totally rational and patient in the first weeks after the Gobert trade.

Normally I don’t compare Apples to Potatoes, but what the hell, let’s do it. The Gobert trade was scrutinized because it combined to All NBA centers and involved one of the largest hauls ever for a defensive player without offensive achievements. The Wolves got the best player in the deal but gave a king’s ransom. The KAT trade we gave up the best player, we got back a fraction of his value, and we didn’t even manage to get out of the 2nd apron while doing it.

Given the above you might be wondering, why are people giving it time to see how the chips fall. The answer is they got burned before betting against the Wolves. In a world where TC is believed to have earned some latitude this is what that latitude looks like. The problem is it ends at the bottom of a ravine.

To put it another way, I can't believe TC is that stupid. He has proven to be smarter than Khan. This must be a forced deal from owner.

[winforlose]

Yeah because the same people were totally rational and patient in the first weeks after the Gobert trade.

Normally I don’t compare Apples to Potatoes, but what the hell, let’s do it. The Gobert trade was scrutinized because it combined to All NBA centers and involved one of the largest hauls ever for a defensive player without offensive achievements. The Wolves got the best player in the deal but gave a king’s ransom. The KAT trade we gave up the best player, we got back a fraction of his value, and we didn’t even manage to get out of the 2nd apron while doing it.

Given the above you might be wondering, why are people giving it time to see how the chips fall. The answer is they got burned before betting against the Wolves. In a world where TC is believed to have earned some latitude this is what that latitude looks like. The problem is it ends at the bottom of a ravine.

To put it another way, I can't believe TC is that stupid. He has proven to be smarter than Khan. This must be a forced deal from owner.

1. Which owner?

2. He had an out in his contract, no owner could force him to do much of anything.

[Mattya]

Normally I don’t compare Apples to Potatoes, but what the hell, let’s do it. The Gobert trade was scrutinized because it combined to All NBA centers and involved one of the largest hauls ever for a defensive player without offensive achievements. The Wolves got the best player in the deal but gave a king’s ransom. The KAT trade we gave up the best player, we got back a fraction of his value, and we didn’t even manage to get out of the 2nd apron while doing it.

Given the above you might be wondering, why are people giving it time to see how the chips fall. The answer is they got burned before betting against the Wolves. In a world where TC is believed to have earned some latitude this is what that latitude looks like. The problem is it ends at the bottom of a ravine.

To put it another way, I can't believe TC is that stupid. He has proven to be smarter than Khan. This must be a forced deal from owner.

1. Which owner?

2. He had an out in his contract, no owner could force him to do much of anything.

The majority owner of the team Glen Taylor, nobody else has a say in ownership decisions over Glen.

[winforlose]

To put it another way, I can't believe TC is that stupid. He has proven to be smarter than Khan. This must be a forced deal from owner.

1. Which owner?

2. He had an out in his contract, no owner could force him to do much of anything.

The majority owner of the team Glen Taylor, nobody else has a say in ownership decisions over Glen.

Let’s call this 65% true. The other parts are that any decision that immediately effects the value of the team could be disputed in court (injunctive relief by the new ownership group,) and Glen would want to keep TC who has an out in his deal. If TC said I will quit rather than put my name to this deal, I don’t believe the deal happens.

[shrink]

To put it another way, I can't believe TC is that stupid. He has proven to be smarter than Khan. This must be a forced deal from owner.

To put it another way, you’re just going to blame who you want, even though the evidence disagrees.

1. All our insiders said Taylor had no hand in this deal.

2. Taylor has a long history of never interfering in GM’s deals. Even deals he doesn’t like, or will cost him far more money. He was on the record of not liking the Gobert deal at the time, but he gave Tim Connelly full trust to do what he wanted.

3. Tim Connelly also said ownership had no hand in this deal.

4. With Connelly’s one-year opt out, Taylor isn’t going to suddenly choose right now to supersede Connelly, ESPECIALLY because the biggest way to piss him off is to force him to do deals to save ownership money, like the Kroenke’s forced him to do in Denver.

5. If Taylor wanted to save money, wouldn’t he want to save it this season, because who knows if he owns the team next year? Does it make sense that Taylor is forcing a deal that makes the team worse now, when he’s owner, to maybe save ARod and Lore money later?

I don’t believe TC or Taylor is this stupid, so I choose TimberKat to blame for the trade.