Thunder is scary good

[HotRocks34]

This guy outplayed #1 Shai.

[HotRocks34]

This is from an article written after Dallas won Game 5 in OKC. Four injuries listed here.

Luka averaged a 30 point triple double, went 2-0 and outplayed #1 Shai to close out OKC in Games 5 & 6.

I respect Shai but that kind of thing is just never going to happen for him, nor will he ever lead a postseason in Total PTS, REB, AST and STL like Luka did last year after averaging 33/9/9.

Gotta keep it 100.

[slick_watts]

Luka outplayed Shai with the series tied 2-2 and headed back to OKC. I documented that yesterday.

viewtopic.php?t=2412877&start=180#p115976425

i'm not interested in your earlier post, because even accepting your arbitrary definition of 'when it mattered most', shai put up 33/5/7 on 60ts and only three turnovers total in the last three games of the series. which is, at worst, about even with what luka put up in those cherry picked games.

anyway that's what i wanted to say and i'm not gonna interact with you anymore.

[HotRocks34]

Luka outplayed Shai with the series tied 2-2 and headed back to OKC. I documented that yesterday.

viewtopic.php?t=2412877&start=180#p115976425

i'm not interested in your earlier post, because even accepting your arbitrary definition of 'when it mattered most', shai put up 33/5/7 on 60ts and only three turnovers total in the last three games of the series. which is, at worst, about even with what luka put up in those cherry picked games.

anyway that's what i wanted to say and i'm not gonna interact with you anymore.

Smart choice.

[Champ1on]

Jokic and Giannis are the best scorers since KD, not Shai

Shai is more skilled. The man has 100 moves. KD is considered a goat scorer because of skill. Shaq is better at getting buckets, but KD has 100 ways to score, so he's always been considered the best scorer since Jordan.

Based on this logic, Shai is more skilled than Giannis and Jokic (along with stats and efficiency), so he is the better scorer.

Flawed logic. Better scorer doesn't not mean more skilled. You have to be able to get points whenever you want and need them in the final minutes when every possession counts.

[ShootersShoot]

Imo if healthy they are the class of the league along with boston. They have everything going for them. Tier 1 star in his prime, young star level 2nd and 3rd options. A defensive solid starting level big. Dort and caruso as role playing wings. They have 7 plus defenders in their rotation. And thats before counting their draft picks and what not.

[KingFox]

There ain't a better PG than SGA, i know that much. This team is beyond scary imagine when Holmgren returns

[puny]

Thunder go clappin'.

[zimpy27]

OP highlights OKCs all time team defense..


Then makes it seem like SGA played Luka 1 on 1

[Bloodbather]

Cant really comment on this since I havent had league pass or watched TNT in ages.

Who does SGA play like? I remember a number of years ago SGA seemed like he was possibly a bust.

Super weird.

I guess we are entering the long sought after parity era after Kobe got done soaking up the entire NBA for 20 years. Mamba mentality for all...

Huh? That never happened. He had a very solid rookie season for a Playoff team and was hailed for his work ethic, then he made tremendous strides every season after that.

[Lo Wang]

Jokic and Giannis are the best scorers since KD, not Shai

Shai is more skilled. The man has 100 moves. KD is considered a goat scorer because of skill. Shaq is better at getting buckets, but KD has 100 ways to score, so he's always been considered the best scorer since Jordan.

Based on this logic, Shai is more skilled than Giannis and Jokic (along with stats and efficiency), so he is the better scorer.

Flawed logic. Better scorer doesn't not mean more skilled. You have to be able to get points whenever you want and need them in the final minutes when every possession counts.

What is the criteria?

Shaq, for example, can get more points off of brute force, but I don't think he is a better scorer than KD.

KD can score on all 3 levels with 100 more moves than Shaq.

The eye test is my proof, which is the most accurate scientific process.

Stats can be manipulated.

[Wargreymon]

Their perimeter defense is magical and generational the likes we haven’t witnessed since the 90s Bulls dynasties. If they were at full maximum power with Chet healthy….not even the Prichard led Celtics can stop them. Scary thought indeed

[Lo Wang]

[img]

Read on Twitter

/photo/1[/img]

The only team with a better relative defensive efficiency than the Thunder is the Bill Russell led Celtics. This measures the defensive rating gap between the two best defensive teams.

They are the first team in history to have more steals (292) than turnovers (282).

Defensive rating - 1st
Stocks - 1st
Forced Turnovers - 1st
Shots contested - 1st

The Thunder is the best team in the NBA. I don't understand why the Celtics and Cavs are ranked higher. The East is incredibly weak. If the Thunder played in the East, they would essentially be playing 80% of their games against teams that are 8 seeds and lower (the 4th best team in the East would be ranked 8th or lower in the West). The Thunder have not lost to a lottery team yet. If they played in the East, they would easily be 23-1 (the one lost coming from the Cavs or Celtics).

Luka vs Shai

We need to talk about last night's game against Luka. Shai outplayed both him and Kai. Ironically, we had a small Luka vs Shai discussion where a bunch of Mavs fans said Shai wet the bed in the playoffs and got outplayed by Luka (complete lie).

Look I'm a fan of Shai, but if Luka beats my team, I will take the L and respect his game. I am not going to distort my reality to rationalize why I lost.

Shai has always dominated Luka because, no offense, for a 26 year old, he moves like a grandpa (Mavs fans like to call it "calculated;" I'm just calling it slow). Last night's game is a statement game. It is a statement to the Mavs fans SGA is a better player: Doncic has the better offensive stats, but SGA is the leader of a historic defensive team along with being the best scorer since KD. Last I checked, defense is just as important as offense.

Luka: 16/5/11 -14
SGA: 39/5/8 +22

This is not just 1 game. This has been consistent. SGA is simply the better player in head to head matchups against Luka (people who defend Luka are only going by stats that don't measure defense).

Discuss.

Disclaimer* I have no life, so I will respond to every comment. This might be misconstrued as trolling.

Luka is better than Shai.

There's no discussion or debate.

Last year during the regular season I think someone on here was making the case all year for how Shai was supposedly better than Luka and possibly the best player in the league based upon RAPTOR or some other version of Plus/Minus only for Shai to have a negative On Off in the playoffs.

Shai, like the Thunder, seems to peak in the regular season. The team reminds me of the 73-win Warriors who maxed out on wins but choked a 3-1 lead in The Finals. This is why I call the Thunder a "try hard" squad. They go full out all the time, in the regular season, but don't seem to have a higher gear in the postseason when other teams turn up their level.

Shai has won 1 playoff series in 6 seasons. Sorry, that's not going to cut it. Embiid-esque. And, like Embiid, he blew a #1 seed with a second-round flame out while being outplayed by an injured guy when it counted.

Things can change but that's the reality today.

You're a lawyer so make better arguments. Public defenders working pro bono are coming stronger than this.

I'm sorry, this is an example of a manipulation of stats.

You are using data from last season's playoffs to make your case the Mavs are better.

I concede the Mavs were better, but that does not mean they are now better. They have a better offensive rating, but the Thunder has made great strides on the defensive end with the additions of Hart and Caruso, and is better than them in every single metric except rebounding and scoring.

Negating current metrics in favor of past ones is fallacious in nature.

[HotRocks34]

[img]

Read on Twitter

/photo/1[/img]

The only team with a better relative defensive efficiency than the Thunder is the Bill Russell led Celtics. This measures the defensive rating gap between the two best defensive teams.

They are the first team in history to have more steals (292) than turnovers (282).

Defensive rating - 1st
Stocks - 1st
Forced Turnovers - 1st
Shots contested - 1st

The Thunder is the best team in the NBA. I don't understand why the Celtics and Cavs are ranked higher. The East is incredibly weak. If the Thunder played in the East, they would essentially be playing 80% of their games against teams that are 8 seeds and lower (the 4th best team in the East would be ranked 8th or lower in the West). The Thunder have not lost to a lottery team yet. If they played in the East, they would easily be 23-1 (the one lost coming from the Cavs or Celtics).

Luka vs Shai

We need to talk about last night's game against Luka. Shai outplayed both him and Kai. Ironically, we had a small Luka vs Shai discussion where a bunch of Mavs fans said Shai wet the bed in the playoffs and got outplayed by Luka (complete lie).

Look I'm a fan of Shai, but if Luka beats my team, I will take the L and respect his game. I am not going to distort my reality to rationalize why I lost.

Shai has always dominated Luka because, no offense, for a 26 year old, he moves like a grandpa (Mavs fans like to call it "calculated;" I'm just calling it slow). Last night's game is a statement game. It is a statement to the Mavs fans SGA is a better player: Doncic has the better offensive stats, but SGA is the leader of a historic defensive team along with being the best scorer since KD. Last I checked, defense is just as important as offense.

Luka: 16/5/11 -14
SGA: 39/5/8 +22

This is not just 1 game. This has been consistent. SGA is simply the better player in head to head matchups against Luka (people who defend Luka are only going by stats that don't measure defense).

Discuss.

Disclaimer* I have no life, so I will respond to every comment. This might be misconstrued as trolling.

Luka is better than Shai.

There's no discussion or debate.

Last year during the regular season I think someone on here was making the case all year for how Shai was supposedly better than Luka and possibly the best player in the league based upon RAPTOR or some other version of Plus/Minus only for Shai to have a negative On Off in the playoffs.

Shai, like the Thunder, seems to peak in the regular season. The team reminds me of the 73-win Warriors who maxed out on wins but choked a 3-1 lead in The Finals. This is why I call the Thunder a "try hard" squad. They go full out all the time, in the regular season, but don't seem to have a higher gear in the postseason when other teams turn up their level.

Shai has won 1 playoff series in 6 seasons. Sorry, that's not going to cut it. Embiid-esque. And, like Embiid, he blew a #1 seed with a second-round flame out while being outplayed by an injured guy when it counted.

Things can change but that's the reality today.

You're a lawyer so make better arguments. Public defenders working pro bono are coming stronger than this.

I'm sorry, this is an example of a manipulation of stats.

You are using data from last season's playoffs to make your case the Mavs are better.

I concede the Mavs were better, but that does not mean they are now better. They have a better offensive rating, but the Thunder has made great strides on the defensive end with the additions of Hart and Caruso, and is better than them in every single metric except rebounding and scoring.

Negating current metrics in favor of past ones is fallacious in nature.

You just don't get it.

The Thunder were the #1 seed last year and fell to the #5 seed.

That is, when it mattered Dallas was better. And Luka was better than Shai then, too, despite being hurt.

Regular season stats don't matter when evaluating a team or player beyond things like regular season awards.

Can a player or team get it done when things get tougher in the postseason? For Shai and OKC, the answer has been "no." Similar to Embiid and the Sixers.

Until that changes, and it can, it doesn't matter what the regular season stats are. Just like it didn't matter that the Warriors went 73-9 when they blew a 3-1 Finals lead to Cleveland. The Cavs were the better team when they had to be.

Last year OKC had the second-best regular season NRTG in the league, behind only Boston. Dallas was 14th.

But Dallas still defeated OKC when they needed to.

Knowing stats is good but understanding the game and the context of the stats is better.

Some teams peak in the regular season. Bud's 2015 Hawks, for example. 60 wins but swept in the second round. Other teams turn it on in the playoffs and don't put their best foot forward in the regular season, like the 1995 Rockets.

Right now, OKC looks like the 2015 Hawks based upon how things went in the playoffs last year.

We'll see if things change for them in the postseason this year, but an important lesson was learned about the team and Shai in the 2024 playoffs and the perception about them won't be altered regardless of what takes place during this regular season because we already went through this before.

[Optms]

Jokic and Giannis are the best scorers since KD, not Shai

Define best.

[Optms]

Only thing stopping from taking over the league is experience. Luka was too much for then last year. No one notable really stepped up.

[HotRocks34]

To be fair to Shai, he gets it. He said this after the game the other night.



The regular season does have relevance for particular things. Seeding, awards, building an identity, etc. But the postseason is usually how players and teams end up being evaluated, at least the more successful ones. Or, at least, how a player and team does in the postseason usually has a significant impact on how a player or team is looked at.

[greekman]

if you replaced giannis with sga would the bucks be better ?

[Lo Wang]

You just don't get it.

The Thunder were the #1 seed last year and fell to the #5 seed.

That is, when it mattered Dallas was better. And Luka was better than Shai then, too, despite being hurt.

Regular season stats don't matter when evaluating a team or player beyond things like regular season awards.

Can a player or team get it done when things get tougher in the postseason? For Shai and OKC, the answer has been "no." Similar to Embiid and the Sixers.

Until that changes, and it can, it doesn't matter what the regular season stats are. Just like it didn't matter that the Warriors went 73-9 when they blew a 3-1 Finals lead to Cleveland. The Cavs were the better team when they had to be.

Last year OKC had the second-best regular season NRTG in the league, behind only Boston. Dallas was 14th.

But Dallas still defeated OKC when they needed to.

Knowing stats is good but understanding the game and the context of the stats is better.

Some teams peak in the regular season. Bud's 2015 Hawks, for example. 60 wins but swept in the second round. Other teams turn it on in the playoffs and don't put their best foot forward in the regular season, like the 1995 Rockets.

Right now, OKC looks like the 2015 Hawks based upon how things went in the playoffs last year.

We'll see if things change for them in the postseason this year, but an important lesson was learned about the team and Shai in the 2024 playoffs and the perception about them won't be altered regardless of what takes place during this regular season because we already went through this before.

That's why I'm not using stats for my evaluation. I am using the eye test which is a much more accurate measurement.

With stats, you can always point out last season's playoffs and have a legit argument the Mavs are better.

Guess what? Things changed. The Thunder evolved. They have Hart and Caruso now. Giddey is out.

If this Thunder team played the Mavs last season's playoff, they would beat them.

Your position is flawed because you are negating the countless hours of improvement since last season's playoffs.

[slick_watts]

With stats, you can always point out last season's playoffs and have a legit argument the Mavs are better.

the mavs weren't even better than the thunder in their series. it was about as even a series can be, but someone has to win.