Cooper Flagg - Duke

[Braggins]

Franz averaged 12.0 ppg (16.9 per75) in his two seasons at Michigan. Flagg is at 15.9 ppg (23.0 per75) so far before his 18th birthday.

[EmpireFalls]

What is this point forward crap. Cooper cannot play point right now, at least for 3-5 years if ever develops those skills. Cooper can shoot and isn't that much worse than other top prospects who aren't labeled as elite pure shooters.

Simmons is actually a pure point guard savant. This Ben Simmons comparison and narrative is absolutely insane.

No I agree with you on that. You want him as a screener and secondary initiator in the immediate term and ideally pair him with a playmaker. His BBIQ and athleticism is great, and can probably get to a first option level initiation eventually but it’ll take a couple years.

I do disagree with your other point.

Are you sure he can shoot? I mean really what evidence is there? The HS stuff is better but it’s still far from encouraging given his huge college struggles.

[EvanZ]

I just think even if you see Coop as a souped up Franz that's an awesome prospect. The fact is most 17-year old 6'10" Freshmen are not averaging > 20% AST%. And against a top 10 SOS (well maybe until they played Incarnate Word).

He's not Franz my man.

Franz a pure scorer. Flagg hasn't shown that kind of ability. Again he needs to improve his jumpshot to get to that kind of player. You can't be Franz when you suck at 3pt shooting and don't have a consistent jump shot.

Wild. Did you ever watch Franz at Michigan? “Pure scorer” is a very strange characterization for anyone who watched him at all.

[JustBuzzin]

I just think even if you see Coop as a souped up Franz that's an awesome prospect. The fact is most 17-year old 6'10" Freshmen are not averaging > 20% AST%. And against a top 10 SOS (well maybe until they played Incarnate Word).

He's not Franz my man.

Franz a pure scorer. Flagg hasn't shown that kind of ability. Again he needs to improve his jumpshot to get to that kind of player. You can't be Franz when you suck at 3pt shooting and don't have a consistent jump shot.

Wild. Did you ever watch Franz at Michigan? “Pure scorer” is a very strange characterization for anyone who watched him at all.

Wait you're comparing him to prospects for their college career only?

That's weird. I thought we were doing pro comps.

[EvanZ]

What is this point forward crap. Cooper cannot play point right now, at least for 3-5 years if ever develops those skills. Cooper can shoot and isn't that much worse than other top prospects who aren't labeled as elite pure shooters.

Simmons is actually a pure point guard savant. This Ben Simmons comparison and narrative is absolutely insane.

No I agree with you on that. You want him as a screener and secondary initiator in the immediate term and ideally pair him with a playmaker. His BBIQ and athleticism is great, and can probably get to a first option level initiation eventually but it’ll take a couple years.

I do disagree with your other point.

Are you sure he can shoot? I mean really what evidence is there? The HS stuff is better but it’s still far from encouraging given his huge college struggles.

He shot 34% on 3s from age 15 to now. 107-316 3PA

And on free throws since age 15 he's shooting 81% on 483 FTA.

So yeah, there is evidence he can shoot.

[EvanZ]

He's not Franz my man.

Franz a pure scorer. Flagg hasn't shown that kind of ability. Again he needs to improve his jumpshot to get to that kind of player. You can't be Franz when you suck at 3pt shooting and don't have a consistent jump shot.

Wild. Did you ever watch Franz at Michigan? “Pure scorer” is a very strange characterization for anyone who watched him at all.

Wait you're comparing him to prospects for their college career only?

That's weird. I thought we were doing pro comps.

What's weird is comparing a 17-year old to a guy in his 4TH year of the NBA.

IT'S ALMOST AS IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING

[JustBuzzin]

Wild. Did you ever watch Franz at Michigan? “Pure scorer” is a very strange characterization for anyone who watched him at all.

Wait you're comparing him to prospects for their college career only?

That's weird. I thought we were doing pro comps.

What's weird is comparing a 17-year old to a guy in his 4TH year of the NBA.

IT'S ALMOST AS IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING

Are you trolling me right now?

Do you know these prospects have pro comps?

I never seen a prospect only be compared to other college prospects. Flagg trying to make the league not do 4 years at Duke. Why are you comparing him to college players and not pro players?

His comp is AK47. He's didn't even play in college. We are comparing him to guys who we think he will play like at the pro level.

[sikma42]

What is this point forward crap. Cooper cannot play point right now, at least for 3-5 years if ever develops those skills. Cooper can shoot and isn't that much worse than other top prospects who aren't labeled as elite pure shooters.

Simmons is actually a pure point guard savant. This Ben Simmons comparison and narrative is absolutely insane.

No I agree with you on that. You want him as a screener and secondary initiator in the immediate term and ideally pair him with a playmaker. His BBIQ and athleticism is great, and can probably get to a first option level initiation eventually but it’ll take a couple years.

I do disagree with your other point.

Are you sure he can shoot? I mean really what evidence is there? The HS stuff is better but it’s still far from encouraging given his huge college struggles.

He shot 34% on 3s from age 15 to now. 107-316 3PA

And on free throws since age 15 he's shooting 81% on 483 FTA.

So yeah, there is evidence he can shoot.

Where are you getting those numbers?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[clyde21]

No I agree with you on that. You want him as a screener and secondary initiator in the immediate term and ideally pair him with a playmaker. His BBIQ and athleticism is great, and can probably get to a first option level initiation eventually but it’ll take a couple years.

I do disagree with your other point.

Are you sure he can shoot? I mean really what evidence is there? The HS stuff is better but it’s still far from encouraging given his huge college struggles.

He shot 34% on 3s from age 15 to now. 107-316 3PA

And on free throws since age 15 he's shooting 81% on 483 FTA.

So yeah, there is evidence he can shoot.

Where are you getting those numbers?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

https://www.maxpreps.com/fl/montverde/montverde-academy-eagles/athletes/cooper-flagg/basketball/stats/?careerid=mq2hpq025c0m6

[The-Power]

Here is the current top 10 in college BPM. Somehow i doubt that BPM is really moving the needle on draft stock.

1. Kameron Jones Marquette 16.7
2. Johni Broome Auburn 16.5
3. Emanuel Sharp Houston 15.5
4. Eric Dixon Villanova 15.2
5. Derik Queen Maryland 14.6
6. Eric Dailey UCLA 13.9
7. Oscar Cluff South Dakota State 13.6
8. Simas Lukosius Cincinnati 13.0
9. Chad Baker-Mazara Auburn 12.9
10. Cameron Matthews Mississippi State 12.8

What's that list supposed to prove? That not every good and productive college player is an elite NBA prospect? Go figure. That doesn't mean having a high BPM is pointless. Run it for Freshman prospects and I'm pretty sure it correlates reasonably well with both draft stock and future success (at least better than most alternative feasible means of comparison). Obviously other factors also matter, from age to frame, measurements and athletic tools to skill profile and role projection. But I don't think anyone claimed otherwise.

[EvanZ]

No I agree with you on that. You want him as a screener and secondary initiator in the immediate term and ideally pair him with a playmaker. His BBIQ and athleticism is great, and can probably get to a first option level initiation eventually but it’ll take a couple years.

I do disagree with your other point.

Are you sure he can shoot? I mean really what evidence is there? The HS stuff is better but it’s still far from encouraging given his huge college struggles.

He shot 34% on 3s from age 15 to now. 107-316 3PA

And on free throws since age 15 he's shooting 81% on 483 FTA.

So yeah, there is evidence he can shoot.

Where are you getting those numbers?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I have access to Cerebro.

[EvanZ]

Wait you're comparing him to prospects for their college career only?

That's weird. I thought we were doing pro comps.

What's weird is comparing a 17-year old to a guy in his 4TH year of the NBA.

IT'S ALMOST AS IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING

Are you trolling me right now?

Do you know these prospects have pro comps?

I never seen a prospect only be compared to other college prospects. Flagg trying to make the league not do 4 years at Duke. Why are you comparing him to college players and not pro players?

His comp is AK47. He's didn't even play in college. We are comparing him to guys who we think he will play like at the pro level.

You do that by understanding developmental stages. It seems you have a very naive idea how this works. But whatever. Sure, he's Ben Simmons. Let's see how that comp goes.

[BigGargamel]

Flagg could definitely be shooting better, but I'm not really worried whatsoever. The transition from high school to college is a big one, despite what people seem to think. Silly nitpicking comes with the territory when you're the top ranked player in your class. He's going to be fine and he's going to be an All Star. I'm fairly confident about that.

Dylan Harper is really his only competition at 1. I really like the guy, but I don't see why anyone would choose him over Flagg.

[JustBuzzin]

What's weird is comparing a 17-year old to a guy in his 4TH year of the NBA.

IT'S ALMOST AS IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING

Are you trolling me right now?

Do you know these prospects have pro comps?

I never seen a prospect only be compared to other college prospects. Flagg trying to make the league not do 4 years at Duke. Why are you comparing him to college players and not pro players?

His comp is AK47. He's didn't even play in college. We are comparing him to guys who we think he will play like at the pro level.

You do that by understanding developmental stages. It seems you have a very naive idea how this works. But whatever. Sure, he's Ben Simmons. Let's see how that comp goes.

Well my pro comp was AK47 with more offense.

Do you like that comp or do I have to compare him to a superstar?

[EvanZ]

Are you trolling me right now?

Do you know these prospects have pro comps?

I never seen a prospect only be compared to other college prospects. Flagg trying to make the league not do 4 years at Duke. Why are you comparing him to college players and not pro players?

His comp is AK47. He's didn't even play in college. We are comparing him to guys who we think he will play like at the pro level.

You do that by understanding developmental stages. It seems you have a very naive idea how this works. But whatever. Sure, he's Ben Simmons. Let's see how that comp goes.

Well my pro comp was AK47 with more offense.

Do you like that comp or do I have to compare him to a superstar?

If he's AK47 with "more offense" he better be the #1 pick lol. Like the fact that you don't think "AK47 with more offense" is a superstar has me concerned.

[JustBuzzin]

You do that by understanding developmental stages. It seems you have a very naive idea how this works. But whatever. Sure, he's Ben Simmons. Let's see how that comp goes.

Well my pro comp was AK47 with more offense.

Do you like that comp or do I have to compare him to a superstar?

If he's AK47 with "more offense" he better be the #1 pick lol. Like the fact that you don't think "AK47 with more offense" is a superstar has me concerned.

Huh?

I said I could see him being a all-star at the next level. My thing is I don't see Superstar. It's only a few of those guys in the league. You have to be really special to reach superstar level. I see Flagg as a 2nd option at best. It all depends on how his game grows mainly his jumpshot. If he can get that shot down consistently then I can change my mind about him being a superstar.

[Zombiesonics]

Here is the current top 10 in college BPM. Somehow i doubt that BPM is really moving the needle on draft stock.

1. Kameron Jones Marquette 16.7
2. Johni Broome Auburn 16.5
3. Emanuel Sharp Houston 15.5
4. Eric Dixon Villanova 15.2
5. Derik Queen Maryland 14.6
6. Eric Dailey UCLA 13.9
7. Oscar Cluff South Dakota State 13.6
8. Simas Lukosius Cincinnati 13.0
9. Chad Baker-Mazara Auburn 12.9
10. Cameron Matthews Mississippi State 12.8

Dont want to derail thread, but just needed to point out how much of a fan I am of Kam Jones. Easily my favorite player (other than the team I support) over the last few years, have a hard time not seeing him being an impact nba guard.

He has tremendous size and general athleticism for his position, and just overall very talented imo. Yes he is old but not an excuse to miss out on this impact player.

[CptCrunch]

I don't want to respond to professional trolls.



These are the only freshman with BPM above 10 over the last decade. BPM on freshman is the single strongest predictor of sucess.

On the converse, low assist to turnover rate is the biggest red flag indicator of no sucess and complete lack of basketball IQ.

[tontoz]

Right KD's assist to turnover ratio in college showed he wouldnt make it in the NBA.

Maluach has the same BPM as Dylan Harper at 10.9. Somehow i doubt he is views as the same level of prospect as Dylan.

[clyde21]

if you had to pick a single stat as an indicator BPM is usually the best, but it can be weird in isolation, like Isaiah Evans this year...2nd highest BPM among all freshmen at 12.7 iirc (2nd to only Queen)...despite not recording a single steal or block all year and only having 7 FTAs, so it's hard to understand what it's even doing here