Thunder is scary good

[Mavrelous]

Mavs were better and won the series decisively, including 2 games in OKC that were won without meeting the clutch criteria, and lost game 4 at home by choking free throws.

[EmpireFalls]

With stats, you can always point out last season's playoffs and have a legit argument the Mavs are better.

the mavs weren't even better than the thunder in their series. it was about as even a series can be, but someone has to win.

The Mavs were better than the Thunder though. It was a close series yes but the Mavs had a big time size advantage and it manifested itself over and over again.

To be fair - OKC has now added Hartenstein and Caruso.

[UNCBlue012]

As a Celtics fan, I'd love to play the Thunder in the championship. It would be an incredible series.

Boston in 6, though.

[slick_watts]

With stats, you can always point out last season's playoffs and have a legit argument the Mavs are better.

the mavs weren't even better than the thunder in their series. it was about as even a series can be, but someone has to win.

The Mavs were better than the Thunder though. It was a close series yes but the Mavs had a big time size advantage and it manifested itself over and over again.

To be fair - OKC has now added Hartenstein and Caruso.

no, the teams were about even. the mavs had an advantage in size but the thunder had advantages too. the mavs, normally a team not prone to turnovers, were dominated in the series on turnovers. the thunder gameplan defensively was sound, the mavs shot ~40% from three as a team which is just variance. those are the looks the thunder wanted them to get.

i mean, the point differential for the series was exactly even.

[slick_watts]

Mavs were better and won the series decisively, including 2 games in OKC that were won without meeting the clutch criteria, and lost game 4 at home by choking free throws.

decisively? lol

[Jaqua92]

Luka is better than Shai.

There's no discussion or debate.

Last year during the regular season I think someone on here was making the case all year for how Shai was supposedly better than Luka and possibly the best player in the league based upon RAPTOR or some other version of Plus/Minus only for Shai to have a negative On Off in the playoffs.

Shai, like the Thunder, seems to peak in the regular season. The team reminds me of the 73-win Warriors who maxed out on wins but choked a 3-1 lead in The Finals. This is why I call the Thunder a "try hard" squad. They go full out all the time, in the regular season, but don't seem to have a higher gear in the postseason when other teams turn up their level.

Shai has won 1 playoff series in 6 seasons. Sorry, that's not going to cut it. Embiid-esque. And, like Embiid, he blew a #1 seed with a second-round flame out while being outplayed by an injured guy when it counted.

Things can change but that's the reality today.

You're a lawyer so make better arguments. Public defenders working pro bono are coming stronger than this.

I'm sorry, this is an example of a manipulation of stats.

You are using data from last season's playoffs to make your case the Mavs are better.

I concede the Mavs were better, but that does not mean they are now better. They have a better offensive rating, but the Thunder has made great strides on the defensive end with the additions of Hart and Caruso, and is better than them in every single metric except rebounding and scoring.

Negating current metrics in favor of past ones is fallacious in nature.

You just don't get it.

The Thunder were the #1 seed last year and fell to the #5 seed.

That is, when it mattered Dallas was better. And Luka was better than Shai then, too, despite being hurt.

Regular season stats don't matter when evaluating a team or player beyond things like regular season awards.

Can a player or team get it done when things get tougher in the postseason? For Shai and OKC, the answer has been "no." Similar to Embiid and the Sixers.

Until that changes, and it can, it doesn't matter what the regular season stats are. Just like it didn't matter that the Warriors went 73-9 when they blew a 3-1 Finals lead to Cleveland. The Cavs were the better team when they had to be.

Last year OKC had the second-best regular season NRTG in the league, behind only Boston. Dallas was 14th.

But Dallas still defeated OKC when they needed to.

Knowing stats is good but understanding the game and the context of the stats is better.

Some teams peak in the regular season. Bud's 2015 Hawks, for example. 60 wins but swept in the second round. Other teams turn it on in the playoffs and don't put their best foot forward in the regular season, like the 1995 Rockets.

Right now, OKC looks like the 2015 Hawks based upon how things went in the playoffs last year.

We'll see if things change for them in the postseason this year, but an important lesson was learned about the team and Shai in the 2024 playoffs and the perception about them won't be altered regardless of what takes place during this regular season because we already went through this before.

This is where I am at. I think OCK will get there...in 3 or 4 years.

Until then, these claims are just entirely unsubstantiated. Regular season basketball is a different animal, and it's outrageous, naive and uninformed to draw championship conclusions about an unproven team that underachieved last year, based on a same size that just had Cleveland considered the "best team" in the NBA a week ago.

They simply haven't looked like world beaters even THIS year against other quality western conference teams (when their opponents are healthy, for that matter).

They got better, and their defense is legit, but so was the inexperienced Timberwolves last year..and the fact is, that when the game slows down in the post season, and all teams start bringing defensive pressure up, offense becomes a half court game and the advantages you see in the regular season becomes nullified.

In hindsight, it makes sense that fans of a team who haven't seen their own team make recent deep playoff runs are missing how little of an indicator OKC's run currently is.

Their defense isn't going to matter if

1. Opposing defenses are suddenly scheming and suffocating their own offense, which has, maybe one or two ball handlers

2. The pace flows down

3. Teams scheme around their defense

4. Their inexperience shows up

5. 3 point shooting variance


If you want to argue they GET to the finals, fine. You could argue that.

But claiming they can beat the best offense in NBA history, an offense and roster that they will have no experience against until the finals, in 6 games, is absurd.

The narrative should be... "If OKC can get to WCF, let's see what they can do when they get there"

But seeing them referred to as one of the most dominant teams of all time is just so outrageous.

[Jaqua92]

Mavs were better and won the series decisively, including 2 games in OKC that were won without meeting the clutch criteria, and lost game 4 at home by choking free throws.

And then Mavs got smoked in the finals.

The leap OKC would need to take this year is essentially unreasonable

[Mavrelous]

Mavs were better and won the series decisively, including 2 games in OKC that were won without meeting the clutch criteria, and lost game 4 at home by choking free throws.

decisively? lol

Haha!

[Patches Perry]

It was only a week or two into the season when my entire friend group, religious Thunder fans who have watched every game for over a decade, all came to the same conclusion that this is the best Thunder team ever.

Not only are they the best Thunder team ever, but they are the best positioned Thunder team ever with youth and assets, and also the most fun Thunder team to watch.

All that said, it's hard to win a championship. Dallas is still a beast in a series, as is Boston obviously. I do feel more confident against Dallas because OKC was nearly as good as them last postseason, but OKC has improved significantly with Hartenstein, Caruso and internal improvement of young guys and addressing their biggest weaknesses. I don't have any gauge to say how OKC does against Boston.

[BlazersBroncos]

Mavs were better and won the series decisively, including 2 games in OKC that were won without meeting the clutch criteria, and lost game 4 at home by choking free throws.

And then Mavs got smoked in the finals.

The leap OKC would need to take this year is essentially unreasonable

They are young and clearly have had internal development. They also now have Caruso and Hartenstein.

If Chet comes back and is healthy they can give Boston a better run than any other team by a good margin.

[Patches Perry]

I was just wondering what Thunder fans thought of the Caruso addition. We miss him in Chicago
I guess OKC is enjoying his play

I watch a lot of NBA so I was familiar with him, but yes he's great. Perfect addition with his energy and competency on the court. Just needs to shoot better.

Dare I ask about Giddey?

[slick_watts]

But seeing them referred to as one of the most dominant teams of all time is just so outrageous.

they are, currently, the best defense since the merger, and 3rd all-time. will that keep up? who knows! but it's a fact, and it's fun and it's exciting.

[Jaqua92]

But seeing them referred to as one of the most dominant teams of all time is just so outrageous.

they are, currently, the best defense since the merger, and 3rd all-time. will that keep up? who knows! but it's a fact, and it's fun and it's exciting.

Cleveland was a week ago too...

[azcatz11]

If you're a betting fan - you can parlay the Celtics + Thunder in the finals. Bet $500 and make $2500 in profit. Can anyone see these 2 teams not making it? Would be an epic 7 game series

[Johnny Firpo]

They have the most potential out of any teams, including the Celtics, but the Celtics has an even better system in place, better GM too. Although, OKC might have the better coach, and certainly have the much better pieces for a trade. I just hope that if a really good opportunity comes up with a greatly fitting star player, they don't go into "we love our team" mode too much, and will actually consider. Although, as a Mavs fan, I would prefer if they wouldn't do that. They are too good already, with still a lo of inside growth potential. Caruso and Hartenstein are major, major pieces.

[ShootersShoot]

Luka is better than Shai.

There's no discussion or debate.

Last year during the regular season I think someone on here was making the case all year for how Shai was supposedly better than Luka and possibly the best player in the league based upon RAPTOR or some other version of Plus/Minus only for Shai to have a negative On Off in the playoffs.

Shai, like the Thunder, seems to peak in the regular season. The team reminds me of the 73-win Warriors who maxed out on wins but choked a 3-1 lead in The Finals. This is why I call the Thunder a "try hard" squad. They go full out all the time, in the regular season, but don't seem to have a higher gear in the postseason when other teams turn up their level.

Shai has won 1 playoff series in 6 seasons. Sorry, that's not going to cut it. Embiid-esque. And, like Embiid, he blew a #1 seed with a second-round flame out while being outplayed by an injured guy when it counted.

Things can change but that's the reality today.

You're a lawyer so make better arguments. Public defenders working pro bono are coming stronger than this.

I'm sorry, this is an example of a manipulation of stats.

You are using data from last season's playoffs to make your case the Mavs are better.

I concede the Mavs were better, but that does not mean they are now better. They have a better offensive rating, but the Thunder has made great strides on the defensive end with the additions of Hart and Caruso, and is better than them in every single metric except rebounding and scoring.

Negating current metrics in favor of past ones is fallacious in nature.

You just don't get it.

The Thunder were the #1 seed last year and fell to the #5 seed.

That is, when it mattered Dallas was better. And Luka was better than Shai then, too, despite being hurt.

Regular season stats don't matter when evaluating a team or player beyond things like regular season awards.

Can a player or team get it done when things get tougher in the postseason? For Shai and OKC, the answer has been "no." Similar to Embiid and the Sixers.

Until that changes, and it can, it doesn't matter what the regular season stats are. Just like it didn't matter that the Warriors went 73-9 when they blew a 3-1 Finals lead to Cleveland. The Cavs were the better team when they had to be.

Last year OKC had the second-best regular season NRTG in the league, behind only Boston. Dallas was 14th.

But Dallas still defeated OKC when they needed to.

Knowing stats is good but understanding the game and the context of the stats is better.

Some teams peak in the regular season. Bud's 2015 Hawks, for example. 60 wins but swept in the second round. Other teams turn it on in the playoffs and don't put their best foot forward in the regular season, like the 1995 Rockets.

Right now, OKC looks like the 2015 Hawks based upon how things went in the playoffs last year.

We'll see if things change for them in the postseason this year, but an important lesson was learned about the team and Shai in the 2024 playoffs and the perception about them won't be altered regardless of what takes place during this regular season because we already went through this before.

I dont agree with this take..the 2015 hawks didnt have a prospect the level of chet let alone a player like shai. Every starter on that hawks team was older than shai is now. It should be very obvious looking at both teams that they are very different. For one okc has the standard true #1 option with legit 2nd and 3rd options. Hawks did not. Who was their #1? Millsap? Laughable to even try to say both teams are comparable in any relevant way at all other than amount of wins

[Mr. Perfect]

OKC should dominate the regular season, as I would expect them to. Younger teams tend to go all-out and Shai will be gunning for an MVP.

They're better than the Mavs on paper, no doubt. Regular season numbers should put them on their own tier compared to the rest of the west. Whether that actually pans out to post-season success remains to be seen. I've been watching the NBA for way too long to assume the dominant regular season team will push through in the playoffs.

They got 2 years before they have to start dismantling their team, we know OKC won't go into the 2nd apron. Let's see what they can do. Presti will need to hit on a few of those late picks to sustain their depth of good role players.

Honestly, Sam Presti might go down as the best basketball executive ever, up there with Jerry West. I want to call it luck but this guy keeps creating luck, he's too good.

[The Servant]

What have they done ??

Beat the pelicans in the first round?!?!

I'm not trying to be a hater but the amount of flowers this guys are getting is ridiculous.

OKC is a juggernaut in the regular season wooooooo do you get parade for that ?

All this stats and celebrating mean nothing come playoff time.

They already have reached the same amount of yoff success as the 76ers with Embuusted, Buckets, Simmons, Hardcan, Maxey.

if the 6ers were starting a season off in the same fashion I imagined they'd have a thread also. The last thread these guys had was about how their interviews are cringe.

[MrTribbiani]

OKC should dominate the regular season, as I would expect them to. Younger teams tend to go all-out and Shai will be gunning for an MVP.

They're better than the Mavs on paper, no doubt. Regular season numbers should put them on their own tier compared to the rest of the west. Whether that actually pans out to post-season success remains to be seen. I've been watching the NBA for way too long to assume the dominant regular season team will push through in the playoffs.

They got 2 years before they have to start dismantling their team, we know OKC won't go into the 2nd apron. Let's see what they can do. Presti will need to hit on a few of those late picks to sustain their depth of good role players.

Honestly, Sam Presti might go down as the best basketball executive ever, up there with Jerry West. I want to call it luck but this guy keeps creating luck, he's too good.

Presti would need to win multiple rings in order for that to happen. Only one team that he has assembled has been to the Finals lmao.

Pump the brakes.

[Mr. Perfect]

OKC should dominate the regular season, as I would expect them to. Younger teams tend to go all-out and Shai will be gunning for an MVP.

They're better than the Mavs on paper, no doubt. Regular season numbers should put them on their own tier compared to the rest of the west. Whether that actually pans out to post-season success remains to be seen. I've been watching the NBA for way too long to assume the dominant regular season team will push through in the playoffs.

They got 2 years before they have to start dismantling their team, we know OKC won't go into the 2nd apron. Let's see what they can do. Presti will need to hit on a few of those late picks to sustain their depth of good role players.

Honestly, Sam Presti might go down as the best basketball executive ever, up there with Jerry West. I want to call it luck but this guy keeps creating luck, he's too good.

Presti would need to win multiple rings in order for that to happen. Only one team that he has assembled has been to the Finals lmao.

Pump the brakes.

Cant fault him for no rings, he's now set up 2 different teams in 2 different eras to win it all. He's working in a small market thats not a FA destination with limited budget.