Game 25: Portland vs San Antonio 7:00pm Chargetv

[EddyXCA]

I think most of us would agree the long term keepers on this team are Deni, Clingan and Camara.

Let's see if management doubles down this summer and tries to extend Sharpe. I think that would be truly
stupid for he most likely won't sign this extension unless its for the Max. Sharpe has 57 games to go to
convince ownership to offer him the Max

Honestly I think whether it's now or later we have to give him that money. It may be worth waiting till rfa or at least this off season to have as much knowledge as possible before committing to such a contract but honestly I don't think we are gonna replace that cap space with anyone nearly as good as Sharpe and with Sharpe being so young still he's probably earned us taking a flyer on him for 4-5 years

Why do you think that? Even if he is not or can not be replaced by someone as good as, why not offer him a worthy contract - that suits his numbers to date and current future projection. Is he Haliburton? Banchero? A top tier of his rookie class? Not sure yet? So don't pay.

[Moonbeam]

I think most of us would agree the long term keepers on this team are Deni, Clingan and Camara.

Let's see if management doubles down this summer and tries to extend Sharpe. I think that would be truly
stupid for he most likely won't sign this extension unless its for the Max. Sharpe has 57 games to go to
convince ownership to offer him the Max

Watching the team this season, I don’t think any player should be untouchable. Some may be more desirable to keep, but I’ve grown tired of management overvaluing Portland’s players. If some team wants Clingan or Camara or Deni or Sharpe and is willing to pay a good price, I’d push the button.

[DaVoiceMaster]

Consolation GLB pics

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Dang BC, that first pic is the same as the 4th Quarter GLB. I feel like we lost twice tonight.

[DaVoiceMaster]

I think most of us would agree the long term keepers on this team are Deni, Clingan and Camara.

Let's see if management doubles down this summer and tries to extend Sharpe. I think that would be truly
stupid for he most likely won't sign this extension unless its for the Max. Sharpe has 57 games to go to
convince ownership to offer him the Max

Watching the team this season, I don’t think any player should be untouchable. Some may be more desirable to keep, but I’ve grown tired of management overvaluing Portland’s players. If some team wants Clingan or Camara or Deni or Sharpe and is willing to pay a good price, I’d push the button.

Can't say i disagree, although I really like Camara, Deni, and Clingan. I'm kind of souring on Sharpe anymore.

[Brandon-Clyde]

Consolation GLB pics

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Dang BC, that first pic is the same as the 4th Quarter GLB. I feel like we lost twice tonight.

Whoops let's fix that

Spoiler:

[PDXKnight]

I think most of us would agree the long term keepers on this team are Deni, Clingan and Camara.

Let's see if management doubles down this summer and tries to extend Sharpe. I think that would be truly
stupid for he most likely won't sign this extension unless its for the Max. Sharpe has 57 games to go to
convince ownership to offer him the Max

Honestly I think whether it's now or later we have to give him that money. It may be worth waiting till rfa or at least this off season to have as much knowledge as possible before committing to such a contract but honestly I don't think we are gonna replace that cap space with anyone nearly as good as Sharpe and with Sharpe being so young still he's probably earned us taking a flyer on him for 4-5 years

Why do you think that? Even if he is not or can not be replaced by someone as good as, why not offer him a worthy contract - that suits his numbers to date and current future projection. Is he Haliburton? Banchero? A top tier of his rookie class? Not sure yet? So don't pay.

Realistically any rookie who shows any production similar to this gets a rookie max or close to it. If we can get him to sign for less great but I'm mostly saying whatever it takes we should retain him

[Wizenheimer]

Spoiler:

San Antonio players showing they wanted the win in the 4th. Nobody besides Camara, Deni and maybe Clingan have that fire.

I'm over "showcase vets" tank losses. I don't want to see the vets, although if Grant and Simons put up 30+ in losses for the next 10 games it's better than if they kept playing as they had before--doo doo.

Is this the first game that Clingan hasn't registered a block?

EDIT: Just looked it up. Yep.

"showcasing" the vets was always a stupid strategy. It was never going to work. The NBA knows exactly who those players are. A good game like tonight will be followed by a bad game soon enough. there is no mystery to Simons; or Grant; or Ayton; or Thybulle. The only mystery with the Blazer vets is will Timelord actually play in 25 games this season. Probably not. So far, in Portland, he's played 13 games in 2 seasons while missing 94....geeeezuzzz

Actually, you have to play them to maximize their value. If they're benched, their value lowers and you'll get less on the trade market.

it's pretty clear I don't agree with that.

Their value is not going to go up because their ceilings are known. A hot streak won't matter; teams know what kind of players they are. Playing them limited minutes or sitting them for 'rest' won't downgrade their value. Last night Grant played 38 minutes; Simons played 37 minutes. They played well and scored more than half of Portland's points, in a home game, against a .500 team. But Simons and Grant led the Blazers to a loss. They were given the keys and drove the car into a ditch

did their value go up because they shot well above their norms? Or did it drop because their team couldn't win? I don't think either of those players have many teams interested in them. Grant probably has more interest than Simons. But last night's game isn't going to alter any trade offers. The only thing that might is the circumstances of the other team

[Wizenheimer]

the only player that should be untouchable on a team like Portland is a nearly certain core player. The Blazers don't have any player like that. None

[DeBlazerRiddem]

Spoiler:

"showcasing" the vets was always a stupid strategy. It was never going to work. The NBA knows exactly who those players are. A good game like tonight will be followed by a bad game soon enough. there is no mystery to Simons; or Grant; or Ayton; or Thybulle. The only mystery with the Blazer vets is will Timelord actually play in 25 games this season. Probably not. So far, in Portland, he's played 13 games in 2 seasons while missing 94....geeeezuzzz

Actually, you have to play them to maximize their value. If they're benched, their value lowers and you'll get less on the trade market.

it's pretty clear I don't agree with that.

Their value is not going to go up because their ceilings are known. A hot streak won't matter; teams know what kind of players they are. Playing them limited minutes or sitting them for 'rest' won't downgrade their value. Last night Grant played 38 minutes; Simons played 37 minutes. They played well and scored more than half of Portland's points, in a home game, against a .500 team. But Simons and Grant led the Blazers to a loss. They were given the keys and drove the car into a ditch

did their value go up because they shot well above their norms? Or did it drop because their team couldn't win? I don't think either of those players have many teams interested in them. Grant probably has more interest than Simons. But last night's game isn't going to alter any trade offers. The only thing that might is the circumstances of the other team

I think you're right that a slump wont alter their base evaluation of a player but it is something a GM would absolutely latch onto in negotiations. They are hyper-competitive and always looking for any tiny bit of leverage they can.

You really think a GM is going to say "ah they are in a slump, but I know they will bounce back so will give you every fair bit of value and trust it works out".

That might be what their internal discussions sound like but to other GMs they are going to play up the concern and move the goalposts as far in their advantage as possible. Maybe it works for them, maybe it doesn't, but it would be damn foolish of them to not try and take advantage of a slump to squeeze some extra value.

[dckingsfan]

I really think that the core of this team is comprised of three players right now:

Clingan, Camara & Avdija

That is your identity, that is who you build around. Those are the guys that are making a difference in the games, you can see it when they’re on the floor.

Of course, you hold onto Sharpe, but if another team offered an enticing package? I would not be opposed to trading him

Yes, you give Scoot another year at least to see if he can get it together, but if the best prospect at their pick in the 25 draft is PG you absolutely take him.

The rest? Who cares, I mean, I kind of like.Rupert, but he still years away, not really a factor on this team

RW3, Grant, Ant, Ayton, Thybulle & Reath all need to be dealt away

After that, there is no one of consequence. They need to focus on players who go with those 3 guys.

Agreement and I will add: RW3, Grant, Ant, Ayton, Thybulle & Reath all need to be dealt away or let expire.

[DusterBuster]

I really think that the core of this team is comprised of three players right now:

Clingan, Camara & Avdija

That is your identity, that is who you build around. Those are the guys that are making a difference in the games, you can see it when they’re on the floor.

Of course, you hold onto Sharpe, but if another team offered an enticing package? I would not be opposed to trading him

Yes, you give Scoot another year at least to see if he can get it together, but if the best prospect at their pick in the 25 draft is PG you absolutely take him.

The rest? Who cares, I mean, I kind of like.Rupert, but he still years away, not really a factor on this team

RW3, Grant, Ant, Ayton, Thybulle & Reath all need to be dealt away

After that, there is no one of consequence. They need to focus on players who go with those 3 guys.

Agreement and I will add: RW3, Grant, Ant, Ayton, Thybulle & Reath all need to be dealt away or let expire.

It’s probably my age, but I legit keep forgetting Thybulle is on the team. What injury does he have again?

[Wizenheimer]

I really think that the core of this team is comprised of three players right now:

Clingan, Camara & Avdija

That is your identity, that is who you build around. Those are the guys that are making a difference in the games, you can see it when they’re on the floor.

Of course, you hold onto Sharpe, but if another team offered an enticing package? I would not be opposed to trading him

Yes, you give Scoot another year at least to see if he can get it together, but if the best prospect at their pick in the 25 draft is PG you absolutely take him.

The rest? Who cares, I mean, I kind of like.Rupert, but he still years away, not really a factor on this team

RW3, Grant, Ant, Ayton, Thybulle & Reath all need to be dealt away

After that, there is no one of consequence. They need to focus on players who go with those 3 guys.

Agreement and I will add: RW3, Grant, Ant, Ayton, Thybulle & Reath all need to be dealt away or let expire.

It’s probably my age, but I legit keep forgetting Thybulle is on the team. What injury does he have again?

grade 2 ankle sprain

[Wizenheimer]

Spoiler:

Actually, you have to play them to maximize their value. If they're benched, their value lowers and you'll get less on the trade market.

it's pretty clear I don't agree with that.

Their value is not going to go up because their ceilings are known. A hot streak won't matter; teams know what kind of players they are. Playing them limited minutes or sitting them for 'rest' won't downgrade their value. Last night Grant played 38 minutes; Simons played 37 minutes. They played well and scored more than half of Portland's points, in a home game, against a .500 team. But Simons and Grant led the Blazers to a loss. They were given the keys and drove the car into a ditch

did their value go up because they shot well above their norms? Or did it drop because their team couldn't win? I don't think either of those players have many teams interested in them. Grant probably has more interest than Simons. But last night's game isn't going to alter any trade offers. The only thing that might is the circumstances of the other team

I think you're right that a slump wont alter their base evaluation of a player but it is something a GM would absolutely latch onto in negotiations. They are hyper-competitive and always looking for any tiny bit of leverage they can.

You really think a GM is going to say "ah they are in a slump, but I know they will bounce back so will give you every fair bit of value and trust it works out".

That might be what their internal discussions sound like but to other GMs they are going to play up the concern and move the goalposts as far in their advantage as possible. Maybe it works for them, maybe it doesn't, but it would be damn foolish of them to not try and take advantage of a slump to squeeze some extra value.

well, considering both Simons and Grant are currently having about their worst seasons, playing them big minutes so far is a bad idea.

whether you agree or not, and it seems like you kind of do, this notion of playing Simons-Grant-Ayton big minutes has at best, very minor speculative value. But giving those vets the usage, shots, and ball dominance that could instead go to development and evaluation of the young players that are getting one year closer to their extensions sure looks like a stupid use of playing time

of course, the Blazer F.O. may very well want to feature those 3 vets not because of trade value considerations, but because they view them as core players with enough big-3 talent to be long term pieces. I am developing a lot of skepticism for Cronin as GM. He appears to straddle almost as many fences as Olshey

[Wizenheimer]

I really think that the core of this team is comprised of three players right now:

Clingan, Camara & Avdija

.

I guess I have a lot more restrictive definition of core players. Those 3 guys you listed look like supporting role players to me.

Boston has 2 core players, Tatum & Brown; Miami has 2, Butler and Adebayo; LAL has 2, Lebron & AD. Warriors use to have 3: Curry, Klay, and Draymond. OKC probably has 3 in SGA, Holmgren, Williams

these are all high level all-star type players, or better. most are elite.

Portland used to have 2 core players: Dame & LMA. Olshey's failing is that he was gifted a core player in Dame but could never add another. All he did was try and make it work with a bunch of supporting level role players....similar level to Avdija and Camara. I like the 3 players you listed but in my view they would have to improve massively, probably beyond their capacity, to ever be core players on a playoff team.

the way teams fail, the way Portland failed under Olshey, is investing time, effort, and salary on supporting players before ever knowing what kind of players you need to support the core

[dckingsfan]

Agreement and I will add: RW3, Grant, Ant, Ayton, Thybulle & Reath all need to be dealt away or let expire.

It’s probably my age, but I legit keep forgetting Thybulle is on the team. What injury does he have again?

grade 2 ankle sprain

And recovering from a knee injury.

[dckingsfan]

I really think that the core of this team is comprised of three players right now:

Clingan, Camara & Avdija

.

I guess I have a lot more restrictive definition of core players. Those 3 guys you listed look like supporting role players to me.

Boston has 2 core players, Tatum & Brown; Miami has 2, Butler and Adebayo; LAL has 2, Lebron & AD. Warriors use to have 3: Curry, Klay, and Draymond. OKC probably has 3 in SGA, Holmgren, Williams

these are all high level all-star type players, or better. most are elite.

Portland used to have 2 core players: Dame & LMA. Olshey's failing is that he was gifted a core player in Dame but could never add another. All he did was try and make it work with a bunch of supporting level role players....similar level to Avdija and Camara. I like the 3 players you listed but in my view they would have to improve massively, probably beyond their capacity, to ever be core players on a playoff team.

the way teams fail, the way Portland failed under Olshey, is investing time, effort, and salary on supporting players before ever knowing what kind of players you need to support the core

Yep, definition issue.

Big two or three vs. core players (generally 3-8 or 4-8). I look at Clingan, Camara & Avdija as 4-8 or if one breaks out 3-8. Which shows you how far away this team is and why the strategy (or lack thereof is a bit puzzling to say the least).

Three ways to get your big two or three. Through the draft, through trade or through FA. Given this is a small market - winning just enough to just miss the play-in is "interesting".

[Walton1one]

I really think that the core of this team is comprised of three players right now:

Clingan, Camara & Avdija

.

I guess I have a lot more restrictive definition of core players. Those 3 guys you listed look like supporting role players to me.

Boston has 2 core players, Tatum & Brown; Miami has 2, Butler and Adebayo; LAL has 2, Lebron & AD. Warriors use to have 3: Curry, Klay, and Draymond. OKC probably has 3 in SGA, Holmgren, Williams

these are all high level all-star type players, or better. most are elite.

Portland used to have 2 core players: Dame & LMA. Olshey's failing is that he was gifted a core player in Dame but could never add another. All he did was try and make it work with a bunch of supporting level role players....similar level to Avdija and Camara. I like the 3 players you listed but in my view they would have to improve massively, probably beyond their capacity, to ever be core players on a playoff team.

the way teams fail, the way Portland failed under Olshey, is investing time, effort, and salary on supporting players before ever knowing what kind of players you need to support the core

Yep, definition issue.

Big two or three vs. core players (generally 3-8 or 4-8). I look at Clingan, Camara & Avdija as 4-8 or if one breaks out 3-8. Which shows you how far away this team is and why the strategy (or lack thereof is a bit puzzling to say the least).

Three ways to get your big two or three. Through the draft, through trade or through FA. Given this is a small market - winning just enough to just miss the play-in is "interesting".

Yes, none of those players are likely in the stratosphere of true #1/#2 players, at least not yet. That wasn't what I was saying, for a team w\o a true #1 (or #2?) type player yet, those 3 players are the 3 that IMO COULD be viewed as key pieces (secondary players) to a playoff-caliber team, and they all share the same kind of identity: Defense, hustle, intensity

So, would I be upset if one of them were traded? Not necessarily, but I would rather trade ANY of the other players BEFORE I parted ways with those 3 players. At lease with those 3 players on the team, you have some sort of identity, which for a team lacking one the last few years, is at least a (small) step in the right direction.

[Wizenheimer]

Yes, none of those players are likely in the stratosphere of true #1/#2 players, at least not yet. That wasn't what I was saying, for a team w\o a true #1 (or #2?) type player yet, those 3 players are the 3 that IMO COULD be viewed as key pieces (secondary players) to a playoff-caliber team, and they all share the same kind of identity: Defense, hustle, intensity

So, would I be upset if one of them were traded? Not necessarily, but I would rather trade ANY of the other players BEFORE I parted ways with those 3 players. At lease with those 3 players on the team, you have some sort of identity, which for a team lacking one the last few years, is at least a (small) step in the right direction.

I was assuming that's really what you meant. I just think that some terms like 'elite' and 'core' and 'star' are used to casually

I like those 3 players too and after the Olshey era it's nice to have 3 notable players 6'8 and taller rather than 3 notable players 6'3 and shorter

But I would not make any of the 3 untouchable. I'm also thinking that if Portland does get better over the next 2-3 seasons, they won't get away with starting both Avdija and Camara at forwards. Their skills are too redundant and too offensively challenged. The Blazers absolutely need to find a really good starting wing to plug into one of the forward positions

maybe the biggest issue for the Blazers is they used a 7 pick on Sharpe and a 3 pick on Scoot and neither player si close to consistently proving even lottery level talent

[Norm2953]

It'll be interesting to see when Chauncey is finally gone, if things will change for the better for
Portland invested lottery picks in Sharpe, Scoot and Clingan and only one of these players
received solid coaching prior to arriving in Portland.

[dckingsfan]

It'll be interesting to see when Chauncey is finally gone, if things will change for the better for Portland invested lottery picks in Sharpe, Scoot and Clingan and only one of these players received solid coaching prior to arriving in Portland.

I think that Clingan is a solid pick. On offense, he is quite the monster down low and in the pre-season he was working on his 3-point shot. Pick'n roll and pick'n pop will both be available to him over time.

Defensively he clogs the middle well and is a really good defensive rebounder and shot blocker.

I don't want to be too negative but I don't think Sharpe gets there. On offense, he finishes really well but only a quarter of his shots are at the rim. He either doesn't want to get there or doesn't have the ability to get there or a bit of both. At this point he should limit himself to midrange and at the rim shots.

Defensively, meh.

I think it is too early to judge the 20-year-old Scoot. But the assist-to-turnover rate, range on his shot and defense aren't looking good for a top 8 player.

My point is that it isn't Chauncey that needs to go but Cronin. Why? Cronin is locked in with a bias toward the players he picked (and signed). He needs to go and then choose his own coach.

My 1/2 cent.