LAL/DEN/TOR

[dcstanley]

LAL in: Michael Porter Jr
DEN in: Bruce Brown, Kelly Olynk, top 4 Protected 2029 LAL FRP
TOR in: D'angelo Russell, Max Lewis, Rui Hachimura, 2025 LAL SRP, 2025 LAC SRP


Nuggets turn MPJ into a starting a level wing, backup big, a post LBJ/AD FRP, and gain some salary relief going forward.

Lakers get a big forward that can stretch the floor and rebound.

Raptors get two SRPs, expiring contracts, and a forward they can flip for some more seconds.

Edit: Sent the FRP to Denver.

[Texas Chuck]

Denver shouldn't do this, but if they were doing it they should cut Toronto out. Then flip Russell/draft capital for something better than Brown/KO while keeping Rui.

[Mr Swagtastic]

Denver shouldn't do this, but if they were doing it they should cut Toronto out. Then flip Russell/draft capital for something better than Brown/KO while keeping Rui.

Agreed with Toronto being cut out of the deal. Just curious on what the protections on that 2029 Lakers first round draft pick are?

[Mamba4Goat]

Agreed with Toronto being cut out too.

I think LAL may have qualms with the 1st being added as well.

[ejftw]

I don't see how Brown and Kelly return a first, a second along with a half prospect in Lewis, a (more) useful expiring in D'Lo and a guy that they can "flip more seconds."

I mean, unless that's a fake first with something like top 20 > second.

Could be a decent gamble for the Lakers.

And, as said, if I'm Denver, I'd much rather cut Toronto out.

[babyjax13]

DLo is playing and Brown isn't. I think the incentive is going the wrong way.

[zimpy27]

Yeah I don't understand how this value works.

You think DLo+Rui+Lewis+FRP+SRP is the same value as Brown+Olynyk?

[dcstanley]

I thought Denver may be keen on a Brown reunion and Olynyk filled more of a need as a servicable back up big.

In any event, here's how it looks without Toronto:
DEN in: DLO, Rui, top 4 protected 2029 FRP
LAL in: MPJ

Another more wacky conception I had:
DEN in: Cam Johnson and DFS
LAL in: MPJ and Trendon Watford
BKN in: Rui, DLO, Westbrook, JHS, 2027 OKC FRP, 2029 LAL FRP, 2031 DEN FRP, 2025 LAL SRP

[zimpy27]

I thought Denver may be keen on a Brown reunion and Olynyk filled more of a need as a servicable back up big.

In any event, here's how it looks without Toronto:
DEN in: DLO, Rui, top 4 protected 2029 FRP
LAL in: MPJ

Another, more wacky conception I had:
DEN in: Cam Johnson and DFS
LAL in: MPJ and Trendon Watford
BKN in: Rui, DLO, Westbrook, JHS, 2027 OKC FRP, 2029 LAL FRP, 2031 DEN FRP, 2025 LAL SRP

Value aside, I struggle to see the point in upgrading Rui to MPJ. Yes MPJ takes more 3s but their TS% and other stats are fairly identical.

DLo+FRP(top 4 protected) is a lot to give up for a similar guy that stretches the floor better considering MPJ has a much higher salary too.

[dcstanley]

I thought Denver may be keen on a Brown reunion and Olynyk filled more of a need as a servicable back up big.

In any event, here's how it looks without Toronto:
DEN in: DLO, Rui, top 4 protected 2029 FRP
LAL in: MPJ

Another, more wacky conception I had:
DEN in: Cam Johnson and DFS
LAL in: MPJ and Trendon Watford
BKN in: Rui, DLO, Westbrook, JHS, 2027 OKC FRP, 2029 LAL FRP, 2031 DEN FRP, 2025 LAL SRP

Value aside, I struggle to see the point in upgrading Rui to MPJ. Yes MPJ takes more 3s but their TS% and other stats are fairly identical.

DLo+FRP(top 4 protected) is a lot to give up for a similar guy that stretches the floor better considering MPJ has a much higher salary too.

Yeah, MPJ is overpaid but he's a significantly better player than Rui. Rui's TS% is bolstered by an unsustainable 45% from 3, he's statistically one of the worst paint finishers in the league which is a crime for a player with his size, strength, and athleticism. He's considerably worse as a defender and rebounder and is playing out of position in LA.

MPJ also brings some much needed movement shooting and fits Lebron/AD like a glove. Probably one of the few two way players on the market. He's absolutely overpaid but still a substantial upgrade. Imo Rui is not a starting level player.

[zimpy27]

I thought Denver may be keen on a Brown reunion and Olynyk filled more of a need as a servicable back up big.

In any event, here's how it looks without Toronto:
DEN in: DLO, Rui, top 4 protected 2029 FRP
LAL in: MPJ

Another, more wacky conception I had:
DEN in: Cam Johnson and DFS
LAL in: MPJ and Trendon Watford
BKN in: Rui, DLO, Westbrook, JHS, 2027 OKC FRP, 2029 LAL FRP, 2031 DEN FRP, 2025 LAL SRP

Value aside, I struggle to see the point in upgrading Rui to MPJ. Yes MPJ takes more 3s but their TS% and other stats are fairly identical.

DLo+FRP(top 4 protected) is a lot to give up for a similar guy that stretches the floor better considering MPJ has a much higher salary too.

Yeah, MPJ is overpaid but he's a significantly better player than Rui. Rui's TS% is bolstered by an unsustainable 45% from 3, he's statistically one of the worst paint finishers in the league which is a crime for a player with his size, strength, and athleticism. He's considerably worse as a defender and rebounder and is playing out of position in LA.

MPJ also brings some much needed movement shooting and fits Lebron/AD like a glove. Probably one of the few two way players on the market. He's absolutely overpaid but still a substantial upgrade. Imo Rui is not a starting level player.

Not talk Rui vs MPJ this season. I'm talking Rui vs MPJ over the past 4 seasons.

They aren't much different honestly. MPJ is Rui with volume 3s and more gravity. Which I understand is important. But I'd have MPJ for DLo+Rui as fair value.

[BelgradeNugget]

Another deal Denver gets out as worst team than the one they have now. Denver doesn't need to trade MPJ. They are out of 2nd apron by leting KCP go. Brown was Nuggets 6th player in championship team, MPJ was 3/4. Brown was worst last year then previous and didn't play this season, while MPJ is having his best season. Why downgrading from MPJ to Brown so Kelly Olynyk could play 10 minutes off the bench in the playoffs?
We saw in the last 2 playoffs value of Rui, DLo compared to MPJ. No starter
MPJ is better player than Cam Johnson and Denver ads 1st to get DFS?
I get people don't like MPJ's health history and contract and it goes into his value as asset. But for Nuggets he is not asset he is perfect player for his role. For Nuggets it is not contract/health issues/production it is just production.
So, for Nuggets they need backup C without giving any of top 8 guys and they will be fine.

[dcstanley]

Value aside, I struggle to see the point in upgrading Rui to MPJ. Yes MPJ takes more 3s but their TS% and other stats are fairly identical.

DLo+FRP(top 4 protected) is a lot to give up for a similar guy that stretches the floor better considering MPJ has a much higher salary too.

Yeah, MPJ is overpaid but he's a significantly better player than Rui. Rui's TS% is bolstered by an unsustainable 45% from 3, he's statistically one of the worst paint finishers in the league which is a crime for a player with his size, strength, and athleticism. He's considerably worse as a defender and rebounder and is playing out of position in LA.

MPJ also brings some much needed movement shooting and fits Lebron/AD like a glove. Probably one of the few two way players on the market. He's absolutely overpaid but still a substantial upgrade. Imo Rui is not a starting level player.

Not talk Rui vs MPJ this season. I'm talking Rui vs MPJ over the past 4 seasons.

They aren't much different honestly. MPJ is Rui with volume 3s and more gravity. Which I understand is important. But I'd have MPJ for DLo+Rui as fair value.

He's Rui plus better defense, movement shooting/gravity, rebounding. Rui is decidedly below average defender for his position while MPJ is at the very least average. That matters.

[youngthegiant]

This is just a terrible deal for Denver. Bruce Brown hasn't played a single game...Olynk has played 3..MPJ meanwhile having himself a career best season.

[nomansland]

I know this board is full of MPJ sceptics but that is an awful return for him, whether you include Toronto or cut them out.

[Texas Chuck]

I know this board is full of MPJ sceptics but that is an awful return for him, whether you include Toronto or cut them out.

Denver fans have done a good job pointing out how healthy he's been recently. So I'm definitely less of a skeptic than I was.

That said, I still think he's overpaid for what he brings to Denver and if they could turn his salary into a different shooter and another quality rotation piece, I would definitely explore it.

Not this deal. But a deal where he returns 2 contributors? I'd definitely consider it. Jokic is incredible obviously, but I hate killing him to just to avoid the play-in and then hope to go on a deep run having ridden him this hard all year. The difference between him on and off right now just isn't sustainable.

And Porter Jr is the only realistic avenue to do something meaningful about that.

[nomansland]

I know this board is full of MPJ sceptics but that is an awful return for him, whether you include Toronto or cut them out.

Denver fans have done a good job pointing out how healthy he's been recently. So I'm definitely less of a skeptic than I was.

That said, I still think he's overpaid for what he brings to Denver and if they could turn his salary into a different shooter and another quality rotation piece, I would definitely explore it.

Not this deal. But a deal where he returns 2 contributors? I'd definitely consider it. Jokic is incredible obviously, but I hate killing him to just to avoid the play-in and then hope to go on a deep run having ridden him this hard all year. The difference between him on and off right now just isn't sustainable.

And Porter Jr is the only realistic avenue to do something meaningful about that.

IF Denver needs to make a trade, I'd agree that MPJ is the best candidate. He even knows that, he hinted at it in an interview.

The thing is though, that Denver's kind of stuck with Murray and if Murray doesn't start consistently contributing more, the Nugs are kind of effed this season either way. If they traded MPJ and brought in two lesser players but Murray still isn't holding up his end of things, they're not going any farther in the playoffs than if they'd stood pat. If they keep MPJ and Murray doesn't get better, they're probably not winning much either.

It all comes down to Murray, so they should be patient for a bit longer and see what he does. He was good in the last game. Finally looks thinner, a bit quicker and actually defended well. Let's see how things look over the next few weeks.

But if the Nuggets do decided they need to make a trade, it'd better be for a better deal than the ones mentioned in this thread or people will be calling for Booth's head.

[islandboy53]

Denver shouldn't do this, but if they were doing it they should cut Toronto out. Then flip Russell/draft capital for something better than Brown/KO while keeping Rui.

I agree that Denver shouldn't move Porter,, but both teams need to send out more salary than they bring back in any trade, so your theoretical team that wants to send along better player(s) needs to be part of the deal.

[BigGargamel]

Once again, this is terrible for Denver. People aren't grasping the fact that MPJ is an important player, and shouldn't be traded for strict backups. IF they move him, it's going to be to try to give Jokic a second All Star type talent. Not for spare parts.

Bruce Brown would be behind Braun, Murray, Strawther, Westbrook as far as the guard rotation goes. Why would Denver trade their second best starter for that?