Indiana - Charlotte - Detroit

[oldncreaky]

Detroit have no incentive to deal reed for micic straight up/thats why they get a 2nd here

Do they not? Reed as a 3rd C versus Micic as a 3rd PG on the roster seems a pretty even swap. And seems easier to play Cade and another PG than it is to play 2 centers together, so a much easier route to minutes for Micic than for Reed.

I respectfully disagree. I think Reed's market is far more robust just do positional scarcity so even if there's not some great need for either guy, there's still league-wide trade value. That's before you factor in Micic looking like a borderline NBA player. The Pistons have guards they want to force feed minutes in order to see what they have. They'll need incentive.

This is a good take

I don't really care much about BBall Paul, who is our 3rd string C behind Duren/Stewart as well as an EC, and he means nothing to the team in the future. However, after them, our 4th string C would be . . . Tobias Harris. Yeesh. Paul has a small value to the team as insurance, and maybe some trade value because he is a playable C in a league with a shortage of healthy Cs

OTOH, our guard rotation includes Cade, Ivey and Sasser -- all of whom can (and do) man the PG slot and are players we want to develop. I agree that at least 2 of them are really combo-guards, but again, we are trying to develop them. 4th in the PG rotation behind Cade/Ivey/sasser is a rookie (Jenkins) on a 2-way contract. Micic would be 4th at best, mostly our 5th PG, at which point I'd rather have a random call-up/signing from whoever is hot in the GLeague if we get to there.

DET has $10.2M space available under the salary cap, and could also structure deals to take significantly more than that and still stay under the tax deal -- that is our major asset. We have young players (8 at least) under contract to develop at every position except for PF.

Veteran backups at pretty much any position are of little interest, so yes, we'd need incentive to trade especially for a guy we'd likely just cut.

[Scoot McGroot]

I respectfully disagree. I think Reed's market is far more robust just do positional scarcity so even if there's not some great need for either guy, there's still league-wide trade value. That's before you factor in Micic looking like a borderline NBA player. The Pistons have guards they want to force feed minutes in order to see what they have. They'll need incentive.

Ah. As someone whose team has battled PG shortages and C shortages in recent years, I’m a big believer in teams needing 3 nba caliber PG’s moreso than teams needing 3 C’s. Playing McConnell and Keifer Sykes a couple years ago was MUCH worse than playing just Myles Turner (and Siakam or Obi out of position). But, just my experience.

That's almost entirely dependent upon roster construction IMO, but even if the Pistons weren't in their current situation, I think the jury's out Micic being an NBA caliber PG. Is he better than the failed prospect who they just let walk? The Pistons will have a handful of potential trade partners for Reed. No one is calling on Micic. They'll need incentive.

I think this is where we generally disagree. I don't know that Reed will have too many trade partners? And most might just be trading for him to waive him before 1/10 for his non-guarantee. He's a guy that, much like Max Christie, is much more interesting on a rookie contract salary or a smaller deal than on a $7m+ per year type of deal? But yeah, if he's worth that deal to more than one team, then I guess he'd have more value.

[jbk1234]

Ah. As someone whose team has battled PG shortages and C shortages in recent years, I’m a big believer in teams needing 3 nba caliber PG’s moreso than teams needing 3 C’s. Playing McConnell and Keifer Sykes a couple years ago was MUCH worse than playing just Myles Turner (and Siakam or Obi out of position). But, just my experience.

That's almost entirely dependent upon roster construction IMO, but even if the Pistons weren't in their current situation, I think the jury's out Micic being an NBA caliber PG. Is he better than the failed prospect who they just let walk? The Pistons will have a handful of potential trade partners for Reed. No one is calling on Micic. They'll need incentive.

I think this is where we generally disagree. I don't know that Reed will have too many trade partners? And most might just be trading for him to waive him before 1/10 for his non-guarantee. He's a guy that, much like Max Christie, is much more interesting on a rookie contract salary or a smaller deal than on a $7m+ per year type of deal? But yeah, if he's worth that deal to more than one team, then I guess he'd have more value.

Denver, NY, L.A., and the Pacers could all use a backup center in that price range. Heck, the Cavs could use him as Thor can't get in the game for meaningful minutes for some reason. He didn't even clear waivers when the Sixers released him. That's how the Pistons got him.

I don't want to oversell Reed. He is what he is, but I suspect his salary makes him more attractive than guys like JV and Boucher.

[Wizop]

Nevermind!

Read on Twitter

[Scoot McGroot]

That's almost entirely dependent upon roster construction IMO, but even if the Pistons weren't in their current situation, I think the jury's out Micic being an NBA caliber PG. Is he better than the failed prospect who they just let walk? The Pistons will have a handful of potential trade partners for Reed. No one is calling on Micic. They'll need incentive.

I think this is where we generally disagree. I don't know that Reed will have too many trade partners? And most might just be trading for him to waive him before 1/10 for his non-guarantee. He's a guy that, much like Max Christie, is much more interesting on a rookie contract salary or a smaller deal than on a $7m+ per year type of deal? But yeah, if he's worth that deal to more than one team, then I guess he'd have more value.

Denver, NY, L.A., and the Pacers could all use a backup center in that price range. Heck, the Cavs could use him as Thor can't get in the game for meaningful minutes for some reason. He didn't even clear waivers when the Sixers released him. That's how the Pistons got him.

I don't want to oversell Reed. He is what he is, but I suspect his salary makes him more attractive than guys like JV and Boucher.

Yeah, maybe. Although, I think his price actually puts him out of the Pacers range. As we just saw with them committing to trading for Thomas Bryant, I think they just wanted minimum guys, and to keep Obi for now? Like, Reed could be useful as filler for his position of an Obi trade, but he's definitely not going to return a 6th man type player right now.

And, I know he was claimed, but I still think teams would value a guy like JV over Paul right now? Mostly, the "potential" is kind of wearing off of trade value the more DNP-CD's he racks up? Like, JV can be trusted for 25+ minutes a night, every night, right now.

[oldncreaky]

I think this is where we generally disagree. I don't know that Reed will have too many trade partners? And most might just be trading for him to waive him before 1/10 for his non-guarantee. He's a guy that, much like Max Christie, is much more interesting on a rookie contract salary or a smaller deal than on a $7m+ per year type of deal? But yeah, if he's worth that deal to more than one team, then I guess he'd have more value.

Denver, NY, L.A., and the Pacers could all use a backup center in that price range. Heck, the Cavs could use him as Thor can't get in the game for meaningful minutes for some reason. He didn't even clear waivers when the Sixers released him. That's how the Pistons got him.

I don't want to oversell Reed. He is what he is, but I suspect his salary makes him more attractive than guys like JV and Boucher.

Yeah, maybe. Although, I think his price actually puts him out of the Pacers range. As we just saw with them committing to trading for Thomas Bryant, I think they just wanted minimum guys, and to keep Obi for now? Like, Reed could be useful as filler for his position of an Obi trade, but he's definitely not going to return a 6th man type player right now.

And, I know he was claimed, but I still think teams would value a guy like JV over Paul right now? Mostly, the "potential" is kind of wearing off of trade value the more DNP-CD's he racks up? Like, JV can be trusted for 25+ minutes a night, every night, right now.

No doubt JV brings things on O that present a problem to other teams that Reed doesn't, but we've seen JV played off the floor multiple times in the playoffs. He is better than Reed, but
Reed 1yr at $8M
JV 3yrs at $9.5/$10.4/$10

Any team with cap issues foreseeable in the next couple of seasons (i.e most of them) might prefer Reed

[Texas Chuck]

If I have cap issues, I'd probably prefer JV because he's a solid half the game center making $10M. It's good solid value and a deal easy to get off, if you run into apron issues. He's just so clearly a better player.

Washington surely signed him to flip him at this deadline and I expect them to have no issues getting a couple 2nd rounders out of him.

[Scoot McGroot]

Denver, NY, L.A., and the Pacers could all use a backup center in that price range. Heck, the Cavs could use him as Thor can't get in the game for meaningful minutes for some reason. He didn't even clear waivers when the Sixers released him. That's how the Pistons got him.

I don't want to oversell Reed. He is what he is, but I suspect his salary makes him more attractive than guys like JV and Boucher.

Yeah, maybe. Although, I think his price actually puts him out of the Pacers range. As we just saw with them committing to trading for Thomas Bryant, I think they just wanted minimum guys, and to keep Obi for now? Like, Reed could be useful as filler for his position of an Obi trade, but he's definitely not going to return a 6th man type player right now.

And, I know he was claimed, but I still think teams would value a guy like JV over Paul right now? Mostly, the "potential" is kind of wearing off of trade value the more DNP-CD's he racks up? Like, JV can be trusted for 25+ minutes a night, every night, right now.

No doubt JV brings things on O that present a problem to other teams that Reed doesn't, but we've seen JV played off the floor multiple times in the playoffs. He is better than Reed, but
Reed 1yr at $8M
JV 3yrs at $9.5/$10.4/$10

Any team with cap issues foreseeable in the next couple of seasons (i.e most of them) might prefer Reed

That 3rd year of Jonas is non guaranteed.

[JayTWill]

That's almost entirely dependent upon roster construction IMO, but even if the Pistons weren't in their current situation, I think the jury's out Micic being an NBA caliber PG. Is he better than the failed prospect who they just let walk? The Pistons will have a handful of potential trade partners for Reed. No one is calling on Micic. They'll need incentive.

I think this is where we generally disagree. I don't know that Reed will have too many trade partners? And most might just be trading for him to waive him before 1/10 for his non-guarantee. He's a guy that, much like Max Christie, is much more interesting on a rookie contract salary or a smaller deal than on a $7m+ per year type of deal? But yeah, if he's worth that deal to more than one team, then I guess he'd have more value.

Denver, NY, L.A., and the Pacers could all use a backup center in that price range. Heck, the Cavs could use him as Thor can't get in the game for meaningful minutes for some reason. He didn't even clear waivers when the Sixers released him. That's how the Pistons got him.

I don't want to oversell Reed. He is what he is, but I suspect his salary makes him more attractive than guys like JV and Boucher.

The Knicks could use added playable depth at the 5 but how would they acquire Reed without sending out another 5? I don't know if swapping Precious for Reed makes any sense and it would require another vet min player added from the Knicks with their already limited depth while they are right up against the second apron already.

I'm open to moving Mitch and breaking up his contract into more depth but I wouldn't do it for Reed alone and I don't know what else the Pistons could offer along with Reed. I'm not sure how attractive Reed is with the limited amount of tradeable assets the team has remaining.

[oldncreaky]

If I have cap issues, I'd probably prefer JV because he's a solid half the game center making $10M. It's good solid value and a deal easy to get off, if you run into apron issues. He's just so clearly a better player.

Washington surely signed him to flip him at this deadline and I expect them to have no issues getting a couple 2nd rounders out of him.

You may be right, but finding a match might be hard. At the deadline, most teams are either thinking of the playoffs, or thinking about tanking. Playoff teams are going to be hesitant to spend even $10M on someone who will sit after the first round; OTOH tanking teams won't want to ruin the tank.

For the tanking teams I follow (DET and TOR) I'd need more incentive to take on JV than Reed. If you think of your Mavs, if they lost one of Lively/Gafford to injury, would they want to devote $10M to JV knowing he's a liability on D?

I think JV could be flipped, but it might be easier in July 2025 rather than this coming TDL because every team has delusions of winning in the off-season

[Scoot McGroot]

If I have cap issues, I'd probably prefer JV because he's a solid half the game center making $10M. It's good solid value and a deal easy to get off, if you run into apron issues. He's just so clearly a better player.

Washington surely signed him to flip him at this deadline and I expect them to have no issues getting a couple 2nd rounders out of him.

You may be right, but finding a match might be hard. At the deadline, most teams are either thinking of the playoffs, or thinking about tanking. Playoff teams are going to be hesitant to spend even $10M on someone who will sit after the first round; OTOH tanking teams won't want to ruin the tank.

For the tanking teams I follow (DET and TOR) I'd need more incentive to take on JV than Reed. If you think of your Mavs, if they lost one of Lively/Gafford to injury, would they want to devote $10M to JV knowing he's a liability on D?

I think JV could be flipped, but it might be easier in July 2025 rather than this coming TDL because every team has delusions of winning in the off-season

My assumption was that any "flip" of JV would be when a team would develop new apron issues, as in next offseason. So, a July 2025 type acquisition. And with the MLE's now being able to be used as TPE's, there's a lot more avenues to move a contract of that size. Either way, he'd only be functionally expiring at that point, as his 3rd year is non-guaranteed.

[Texas Chuck]

If you think of your Mavs, if they lost one of Lively/Gafford to injury, would they want to devote $10M to JV knowing he's a liability on D?

I think we are way too quick to call guys unplayable in the playoffs. Dallas went to the WCF starting Dwight Powell. JV is better than him.

Dallas only path to trading for him would be Kleber. So it would be health/offense/rebounding versus defensive versatility. I think if Gafford goes down, Dallas might make that swap? If its Lively, I think they'd probably prefer hoping Maxi is healthy. Add in they'd have to give Washington incentive and it just seems unlikely as Washington would just see Kleber as a line item.

But I don't think that changes JV's value just because Dallas has a 2 center combo currently working for them. There are definitely teams whose 2nd center is not nearly as useful as JV.

Also if the price is a couple 2nds you wouldn't care if he only played a part-time role in the playoffs or not at all in certain matchups. That's a regular season price. And he definitely helps in the RS.

He's not a great player, but he's a very solid one.

[Kalamazoo317]

Looks like we waived Reed

[Scoot McGroot]

Looks like we waived Reed

Sure, but the uniqueness of his non guarantee and the the ability for Detroit to max in season cap space with a vet minimum signing tomorrow means we can’t really make any statements on value of him versus anyone else. Might still have been worth more than Micic, but neither worth as much as the cap space the Pistons could have instead.

[Kalamazoo317]

Just mentioned it because it cements that this trade ain't happening.