Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon

[montestewart]

I thought my sarcasm was obvious. I also don’t actually want a Deni body pillow. Then again I’m talking to someone who uses the term snowflake in 2024

Do they sell Deni body pillows? That's a great Secret Santa idea. Maybe could say "Be my snowflake"

[Kanyewest]

I thought my sarcasm was obvious. I also don’t actually want a Deni body pillow. Then again I’m talking to someone who uses the term snowflake in 2024

Do they sell Deni body pillows? That's a great Secret Santa idea. Maybe could say "Be my snowflake"

I'm ordering one now

[badinage]

That team is a mess. Billups isn’t it. And no, this is not a case of a team without talent. They’ve got plenty of it. But no scheme. Guys jacking shots.

[Kanyewest]

That team is a mess. Billups isn’t it. And no, this is not a case of a team without talent. They’ve got plenty of it. But no scheme. Guys jacking shots.

I guess they have talent but compared to other teams in the West it's lacking- moreso the West is a bloodbath.

Warriors. Spurs, Grizzlies, Nuggets, Timberwolves, Rockets, Lakers, Mavericks, Clippers, and Thunder seem to have superior talent. If the Blazers were in the East, they would be competing for a playoff spot.

Jazz are currently blowing out the Trail Blazers- perhaps worse days for the Blazers are coming.

[PDXKnight]

That team is a mess. Billups isn’t it. And no, this is not a case of a team without talent. They’ve got plenty of it. But no scheme. Guys jacking shots.

I guess they have talent but compared to other teams in the West it's lacking- moreso the West is a bloodbath.

Warriors. Spurs, Grizzlies, Nuggets, Timberwolves, Rockets, Lakers, Mavericks, Clippers, and Thunder seem to have superior talent. If the Blazers were in the East, they would be competing for a playoff spot.

Jazz are currently blowing out the Trail Blazers- perhaps worse days for the Blazers are coming.

I'm not sure why the Blazers haven't fired Chauncey he's a bum. As a blazer fan my only explanation is just blatant tanking but the way they are losing is just disheartening and doesn't feel like team building. Deni toumani and clingan are probably the most useful players to build around a star in the draft so why deni isn't starting is beyond me (personally I'd bring toumani off the bench until Grant is dealt)

Traditionally if you lose bigly you want that to be with up and coming talent. We have vets who need to be moved to open up minutes for young players so that roster building can finally start. Management is hanging onto those guys way too long and Chauncey isn't fostering a competitive atmosphere.

The Blazers and wiz feel like they're both sort of rudderless at the moment, I hope we can both have a draft to build upon in 2025

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

That team is a mess. Billups isn’t it. And no, this is not a case of a team without talent. They’ve got plenty of it. But no scheme. Guys jacking shots.

I guess they have talent but compared to other teams in the West it's lacking- moreso the West is a bloodbath.

Warriors. Spurs, Grizzlies, Nuggets, Timberwolves, Rockets, Lakers, Mavericks, Clippers, and Thunder seem to have superior talent. If the Blazers were in the East, they would be competing for a playoff spot.

Jazz are currently blowing out the Trail Blazers- perhaps worse days for the Blazers are coming.

I'm not sure why the Blazers haven't fired Chauncey he's a bum. As a blazer fan my only explanation is just blatant tanking but the way they are losing is just disheartening and doesn't feel like team building. Deni toumani and clingan are probably the most useful players to build around a star in the draft so why deni isn't starting is beyond me (personally I'd bring toumani off the bench until Grant is dealt)

Traditionally if you lose bigly you want that to be with up and coming talent. We have vets who need to be moved to open up minutes for young players so that roster building can finally start. Management is hanging onto those guys way too long and Chauncey isn't fostering a competitive atmosphere.

The Blazers and wiz feel like they're both sort of rudderless at the moment, I hope we can both have a draft to build upon in 2025

Grant's contract is looking like an albatross as of today, unless he starts balling out, he might be hard to move. I guess if you package him with Williams to a team that needs a a rim protector, you could make it happen. With that said, I think teams are going to really have to reevaluate the whole hold onto assets at all cost concept under this current CBA, at the very least stop bidding against themselves.

Kuzma is another guy that I don't think is as appealing as folks on this board would like to think he is even on a descending contract, albeit Kuzma's contract isn't anything close to as bad as Grant's considering they are kinda similar players.

The second apron truly a gamechanger, especially for bottom dwellers that think if they hold onto an asset at all cost, they'll eventually find a buyer.

[PDXKnight]

I guess they have talent but compared to other teams in the West it's lacking- moreso the West is a bloodbath.

Warriors. Spurs, Grizzlies, Nuggets, Timberwolves, Rockets, Lakers, Mavericks, Clippers, and Thunder seem to have superior talent. If the Blazers were in the East, they would be competing for a playoff spot.

Jazz are currently blowing out the Trail Blazers- perhaps worse days for the Blazers are coming.

I'm not sure why the Blazers haven't fired Chauncey he's a bum. As a blazer fan my only explanation is just blatant tanking but the way they are losing is just disheartening and doesn't feel like team building. Deni toumani and clingan are probably the most useful players to build around a star in the draft so why deni isn't starting is beyond me (personally I'd bring toumani off the bench until Grant is dealt)

Traditionally if you lose bigly you want that to be with up and coming talent. We have vets who need to be moved to open up minutes for young players so that roster building can finally start. Management is hanging onto those guys way too long and Chauncey isn't fostering a competitive atmosphere.

The Blazers and wiz feel like they're both sort of rudderless at the moment, I hope we can both have a draft to build upon in 2025

Grant's contract is looking like an albatross as of today, unless he starts balling out, he might be hard to move. I guess if you package him with Williams to a team that needs a a rim protector, you could make it happen. With that said, I think teams are going to really have to reevaluate the whole hold onto assets at all cost concept under this current CBA, at the very least stop bidding against themselves.

Kuzma is another guy that I don't think is as appealing as folks on this board would like to think he is even on a descending contract, albeit Kuzma's contract isn't anything close to as bad as Grant's considering they are kinda similar players.

The second apron truly a gamechanger, especially for bottom dwellers that think if they hold onto an asset at all cost, they'll eventually find a buyer.

The Blazers and wiz shouldn't be desperate to trade anyone as neither team is in cap trouble and both are in rebuild mode. Both teams need to find that balance of offloading and not panicking as it's easy to jump head first into any blow it up move at times

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Watch on YouTube

Why did we trade this dude, again? Imagine the team's young guys learning from to play with this intensity and heart from another young guy instead of Poole and Kuzma.

[payitforward]

Well, for starters, we'd have one fewer "young guy" to do the learning, right...?

As for as "learning" goes, for that matter, are you suggesting our "young guys" have nothing to learn from Malcolm Brogdon?

Oh, & then there are the other three "young guys" coming in the next few years as a result of the trade.

I liked Deni. He was my pick in 2020. But, we didn't give him away. We got two round 1 picks for him. Plus two Round 2 picks. Plus Brogdon.

You expect a guy who brings that return isn't going to be a good player?

[dckingsfan]

Yes, Deni plays hard, plays the right way and "actually plays". So, no...

IMO, Brogdon has checked out - wouldn't you if you were him (under the heading of duh, he is waiting for the trade).

And having Deni (a young guy that plays hard) is a bad thing for the other youngsters to learn from. Hmmm, sounds like an I want it both ways kind of argument.

Why I now like the Deni trade?
- Keeping Kuz and Poole (those are two very good tank commanders) instead of Deni extend the tank to get us better draft assets
- Additional draft assets (Bub being one) are needed as we haven't hit on an "all-star" level talent yet
- I think this FO needs lots of picks to really move us forward
- I think this FO needs to hit on the draft as the Poole trade and Kuz signing show us

Of course, we probably could have drafted a little better in '24 or better yet, take two picks in '24, one in '25 and add another pick in '26 or '27 instead of taking Bub. And if we wanted Bub, we could have traded down from Sarr. This isn't a blame game, it just shows that this FO is going to need lots of picks (and Deni's contract probably wouldn't have mattered by that time).

[payitforward]

IMO, Brogdon has checked out - wouldn't you if you were him (under the heading of duh, he is waiting for the trade). ...

No I wouldn't & there's zero reason to think he has.

And having Deni (a young guy that plays hard) is a bad thing for the other youngsters to learn from. Hmmm, sounds like an I want it both ways kind of argument.

- I think this FO needs lots of picks to really move us forward
- I think this FO needs to hit on the draft...

To turn this ship around, any FO would need those things. No other way.

...Of course, we probably could have drafted a little better in '24...

??? We had a great draft.

... or better yet, take two picks in '24, one in '25 and add another pick in '26 or '27 instead of taking Bub. And if we wanted Bub, we could have traded down from Sarr. ...

I'm guessing we had a number of offers for Deni & took the best one available. Duh.
Whether we could have, or should have, "traded down from Sarr" is abstract, unknowable....

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

IMO, Brogdon has checked out - wouldn't you if you were him (under the heading of duh, he is waiting for the trade). ...

No I wouldn't & there's zero reason to think he has.

And having Deni (a young guy that plays hard) is a bad thing for the other youngsters to learn from. Hmmm, sounds like an I want it both ways kind of argument.

- I think this FO needs lots of picks to really move us forward
- I think this FO needs to hit on the draft...

To turn this ship around, any FO would need those things. No other way.

...Of course, we probably could have drafted a little better in '24...

??? We had a great draft.

... or better yet, take two picks in '24, one in '25 and add another pick in '26 or '27 instead of taking Bub. And if we wanted Bub, we could have traded down from Sarr. ...

I'm guessing we had a number of offers for Deni & took the best one available. Duh.
Whether we could have, or should have, "traded down from Sarr" is abstract, unknowable....

I love how you keep trotting out this great draft narrative, but everything with the Dawkins timeline is going to take a decade to evaluate. Interesting you are so bullish there, but conservative elsewhere. But okay, let's talk to this great draft.

All three rookies are shooting below 40% from the field, with 2 of 3 at 25% 3-pt fg% with the other Carrington at 31%; if you want to include Bilal too, he's shooting at 30%. All including Coulibaly have horrendous advanced metrics and paltry per 36 minutes despite all being 25+ mpg players. These rooks + Bilal have the greenest of green lights too, they have basically definite minutes no matter what which is pretty big insurance policy as a rookie, yet all have been pretty underwhelming.

Does this mean that this is the status quo? That this is who they will be as players? Nope. But let's not act like this had been a knock it out of the park draft my Dawkins by any stretch of the imagination.

[TheBlackCzar]

IMO, Brogdon has checked out - wouldn't you if you were him (under the heading of duh, he is waiting for the trade). ...

No I wouldn't & there's zero reason to think he has.

And having Deni (a young guy that plays hard) is a bad thing for the other youngsters to learn from. Hmmm, sounds like an I want it both ways kind of argument.

- I think this FO needs lots of picks to really move us forward
- I think this FO needs to hit on the draft...

To turn this ship around, any FO would need those things. No other way.

...Of course, we probably could have drafted a little better in '24...

??? We had a great draft.

... or better yet, take two picks in '24, one in '25 and add another pick in '26 or '27 instead of taking Bub. And if we wanted Bub, we could have traded down from Sarr. ...

I'm guessing we had a number of offers for Deni & took the best one available. Duh.
Whether we could have, or should have, "traded down from Sarr" is abstract, unknowable....

I love how you keep trotting out this great draft narrative, but everything with the Dawkins timeline is going to take a decade to evaluate. Interesting you are so bullish there, but conservative elsewhere. But okay, let's talk to this great draft.

All three rookies are shooting below 40% from the field, with 2 of 3 at 25% 3-pt fg% with the other Carrington at 31%; if you want to include Bilal too, he's shooting at 30%. All including Coulibaly have horrendous advanced metrics and paltry per 36 minutes despite all being 25+ mpg players. These rooks + Bilal have the greenest of green lights too, they have basically definite minutes no matter what which is pretty big insurance policy as a rookie, yet all have been pretty underwhelming.

Does this mean that this is the status quo? That this is who they will be as players? Nope. But let's not act like this had been a knock it out of the park draft my Dawkins by any stretch of the imagination.

Can you even get through an entire season before starting your 10year expectation narrative?

Sarr needs to work on his shooting and definitely needs to add strength but has flashed which is what you'd expect from a raw big who needs to work on his offense.... That goodness the youngin is only 19, because he still has some time to improve as a player...... He definitely needs to get his ass beat down by the NBA's grown men, and then that's when the young man's heart starts to show.... If he takes offense and is ready to put foot to ass wonderful, if he crumbles which I doubt (coincidentally because of Bub, who i'll expound on in a moment) then we'd have to question this pick, but he definitely has a lot to work on, but he has a nice bassline for a super raw athletically gifted big....Jonas is good for Sarr, and I'd be remiss to wanna trade him before Sarr has gained enough muscle to play C full time...

Bilal has displayed improved playmaking and shooting despite the slump he recently went through...... He's also shown an ability to put up 20+ ppg efficiently... Is it consistent, no but he does flash the potential player he can become... Again this kid was drafted as a high rising raw uber athletic prospect, and he has grown tremendously from the player he showed initially.... You're focusing on to many metrics and not watching how these guys are playing..... Metrics are not made by basketball players, they are made by non basketball players and basketball isn't baseball.... Can you double or triple team a batter? Just curious how these metrics are contexted when evaluating players.....Kuzma returning after the first few games to me is what caused Bilal to play less confidently and assured of what he was supposed to be doing.... He defers to the vets, and I think he is also having to play defensive stopper on top of becoming a developing play maker... This just isn't going to occur over night, but he just needs to continue working on his stamina and strength to shoulder the load of an enhanced role, requiring him to play 35-38mpg.... I think that will affect his shooting just as much as shooting a lot... If your legs are tired, everything offensively will suffer, especially your shooting...

Kyshawn was viewed as an unathletic limited offensive player, with no defensive skills..... He's shown he can shoot though not consistently, can bring the ball up and facilitate the offense and though not the most athletic player has shown he has enough versatility to at least become a serviceable defensive player.... And he's still only about to be 21 soon, so he's our oldest young player and still will only just be turning 21...... He has time and room for further growth (ie more consistent outside shooting, utilizing more of the midrange game, and improve his playmaking ability), all of which are reasonably possible with continued development.... He also needs to get in the gym and work on his body more, but he also has potential growth physically still in his future and him at 6-10-7' would be a very different player than he presently is....

Finally Big Bub.... In his time of playing he has shown an ability to play PG in the NBA, has displayed an advanced ability to know when to make the right play, and generally is pretty efficient, despite still learning how to play as a bigger player.... One thing I'd like to see him improve is on his driving game, which can come from improved athleticism which is still possible as he's just turned 19 a few months back, and continued physical growth.... And soak up game from Brogdon as he has given Bub a blueprint for how to play in the league......

I think all 4 guys need to improve, no doubt as they are the base building blocks of this rebuild, but they have all flashed tantalizing possibilites with consistency being the biggest issue amongst all of them.... In the games I've watched, about 15 so far this season, but all DVR'd for later review as I have a business to run so can't always catch every game in real time....
Judging by Bilal's one season improvement, I have optimism that this organization might finally be on track with properly developing players..... That confidence also included the improvement displayed by Deni last season..... If these kids take 2-4 years to develop, which would be all there rookie contracts, I think people would be fine with that.... Face reality my friend, this rebuild was inevitably going to be ugly at some point... Now if we're in 26-27 looking like we do now then maybe concern may be warranted, but you have to realize this rebuild teardown didn't fully finalize until this season... Now we can start judging by how the remainder of this season progresses.... I'd be more concerned with the development of our young 4, and how the veteran influences we've surrounded them with are aiding in their development than on stats and victories... We want to lose but develop.. I think that is the objective..... But aren't you tired of never having a team even win 50 games in your life time.... I mean damn making the finals for the initial goal, can we win 50-60 games in a season, then dream of grandeur and confetti?

[dckingsfan]

IMO, Brogdon has checked out - wouldn't you if you were him (under the heading of duh, he is waiting for the trade). ...

No I wouldn't & there's zero reason to think he has.

And having Deni (a young guy that plays hard) is a bad thing for the other youngsters to learn from. Hmmm, sounds like an I want it both ways kind of argument.

- I think this FO needs lots of picks to really move us forward
- I think this FO needs to hit on the draft...

To turn this ship around, any FO would need those things. No other way.

...Of course, we probably could have drafted a little better in '24...

??? We had a great draft.

... or better yet, take two picks in '24, one in '25 and add another pick in '26 or '27 instead of taking Bub. And if we wanted Bub, we could have traded down from Sarr. ...

I'm guessing we had a number of offers for Deni & took the best one available. Duh.
Whether we could have, or should have, "traded down from Sarr" is abstract, unknowable....

I love how you keep trotting out this great draft narrative, but everything with the Dawkins timeline is going to take a decade to evaluate. Interesting you are so bullish there, but conservative elsewhere. But okay, let's talk to this great draft.

All three rookies are shooting below 40% from the field, with 2 of 3 at 25% 3-pt fg% with the other Carrington at 31%; if you want to include Bilal too, he's shooting at 30%. All including Coulibaly have horrendous advanced metrics and paltry per 36 minutes despite all being 25+ mpg players. These rooks + Bilal have the greenest of green lights too, they have basically definite minutes no matter what which is pretty big insurance policy as a rookie, yet all have been pretty underwhelming.

Does this mean that this is the status quo? That this is who they will be as players? Nope. But let's not act like this had been a knock it out of the park draft my Dawkins by any stretch of the imagination.

Yep, not amazing but not bad in terms of the drafting. In terms of the signings, not amazing but not bad (although the Kuz contract doesn't look so good right now). In terms of the trades, not amazing but not bad (although Poopoo )

Could we have had delayed gratification and waited for another pick two years later. Probably. Would that have been better given this weak draft? Probably. Sometimes taking the best offer at a given time isn't the best offer.

I guess that this FO hasn't hit it out of the park goes under the heading of duh! But... they haven't been awful either like the previous two FOs.

And I am not down on any of the youngsters - quite the contrary (unlike Davis for example). I see them as possible 4-8 guys or if we are fortunate 3-8 guys. But my take is this FO is going to need a lot of picks or some amazing luck to get us a 1 or 2.

[Doug_Blew]

Watch on YouTube

Why did we trade this dude, again? Imagine the team's young guys learning from to play with this intensity and heart from another young guy instead of Poole and Kuzma.

To get younger players with more potential. I watched the first 2 minutes of this video and didn't see anything special. I liked Deni and routed for him. But, I was not as impressed with half the people on this board were with him.

I for one am glad with the direction that this team has taken.

[DCZards]

Of course, we probably could have drafted a little better in '24 or better yet, take two picks in '24, one in '25 and add another pick in '26 or '27 instead of taking Bub. And if we wanted Bub, we could have traded down from Sarr.

I love that the Zards were able to draft Bub this year rather than later.

If the Zards had waited until ‘26 or ‘27 to draft a player—a player who may or may not be as good as Bub—we’d likely be waiting another 2 or 3 years (until 2029 or even 2030) for that draft pick to become a productive player. Bub, on the other hand, will be in his 5th or 6th season by ‘29 or ‘30.

Having Bub on board now means he can develop alongside Bilal, Sarr, George and whoever we get in 2025. That’s a good thing.

[nate33]

Of course, we probably could have drafted a little better in '24 or better yet, take two picks in '24, one in '25 and add another pick in '26 or '27 instead of taking Bub. And if we wanted Bub, we could have traded down from Sarr. This isn't a blame game, it just shows that this FO is going to need lots of picks (and Deni's contract probably wouldn't have mattered by that time).

I love that the Zards were able to draft Bub this year rather than later.

If the Zards had waited until 26 or 27 to draft a player—a player who may or may not be as good as Bub—we’d likely be waiting another 2 or 3 years (until 2029 or even 2030) for that draft pick to become a productive player. Bub, on the other hand, would have been in his 5th or 6th season by ‘29 or ‘30.

Having Bub on board now means he can develop alongside Bilal, Sarr, George and whoever we get in 2025. That’s a good thing.

It would also be a good thing having Deni developing alongside those guys while being paid a contract that's barely more expensive than a rookie contract.

[trast66]

Quite a heist to get two first and two second round picks for a guy who will never be a top 100 player in the league and is not even starting on his new team. I haven’t seen any evidence Winger is a good drafter, but on its face it’s a great trade.

[FarBeyondDriven]

IMO, Brogdon has checked out - wouldn't you if you were him (under the heading of duh, he is waiting for the trade). ...

No I wouldn't & there's zero reason to think he has.

And having Deni (a young guy that plays hard) is a bad thing for the other youngsters to learn from. Hmmm, sounds like an I want it both ways kind of argument.

- I think this FO needs lots of picks to really move us forward
- I think this FO needs to hit on the draft...

To turn this ship around, any FO would need those things. No other way.

...Of course, we probably could have drafted a little better in '24...

??? We had a great draft.

... or better yet, take two picks in '24, one in '25 and add another pick in '26 or '27 instead of taking Bub. And if we wanted Bub, we could have traded down from Sarr. ...

I'm guessing we had a number of offers for Deni & took the best one available. Duh.
Whether we could have, or should have, "traded down from Sarr" is abstract, unknowable....

I love how you keep trotting out this great draft narrative, but everything with the Dawkins timeline is going to take a decade to evaluate. Interesting you are so bullish there, but conservative elsewhere. But okay, let's talk to this great draft.

All three rookies are shooting below 40% from the field, with 2 of 3 at 25% 3-pt fg% with the other Carrington at 31%; if you want to include Bilal too, he's shooting at 30%. All including Coulibaly have horrendous advanced metrics and paltry per 36 minutes despite all being 25+ mpg players. These rooks + Bilal have the greenest of green lights too, they have basically definite minutes no matter what which is pretty big insurance policy as a rookie, yet all have been pretty underwhelming.

Does this mean that this is the status quo? That this is who they will be as players? Nope. But let's not act like this had been a knock it out of the park draft my Dawkins by any stretch of the imagination.

I see three potential starters with maybe all of them being better than average once they develop. That's crazy good for one draft. You can't expect a tanking team (per FO's orders) led by low BBIQ chuckers like Poole and Kuzma, to be getting guys great looks. Nor should you expect these young kids to get them with each other when they're sharing the floor. All this season should be about is seeing flashes, determining what they need to work on in the first professional offseason they've gotten, and to tank for a talented player that will compliment them. Whether it's Flagg, Queen, Johnson, Essengue, you're bound to get a damn good player that will fit in well with these three and Coulibaly. Then just let them play and develop together over the next 2-3 years.

[nate33]

It's worth mentioning that Deni has gotten over his early adjustment period in Portland. He was awful over his first 11 games with a TS% of just .455. But over the last 15 games, here are his per 36 stats (in 27.5 actual minutes per game):

19.2 points
7.0 rebounds
4.2 assists
1.2 steals
0.9 blocks
2.7 turnovers
.462 3P%
.631 TS%

He now leads his team in Win Shares, BPM and VORP.